Kölle 24" planer roller replacements

[Chris Pyle]

The boards I've been feeding into my planer have started to stall about 2/3 of the way through. I can go to the other side and pull them out but I decided to open up the planer and found the rollers are well overdue for replacement.

Where do I find replacements? What are the pertinent measurements? I don't have a manual so I must rely on everyone else to help guide me through this. THis is my first industrial planer, my only other planer was a Makita lunchbox.

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I thought it'd be much easier to figure out how to remove the blocks holding in the roller arbors but I'm still scratching my head...

[Phillip Mitchell]

I don’t know about getting them out but you might try calling Western Roller and talking to them. They can likely put new rollers of various hardness ratings, though I’d imagine you’d need to ship them the existing rollers once you got them out.

[Chris Pyle]

Thanks for the lead Phillip, have you done business with Western Roller before?

[Steve Jenkins]

Thanks for the lead Phillip, have you done business with Western Roller before?

I have several times both planer and feeder. Excellent service.

[Patrick Kane]

I can do a more thorough search later, but there are several german forums that have archives of vintage german machines. More times than not, the manuals are in german(shocker), but it is how i received a manual for a 1970s Martin T75.

Ha, success! you have the 24" machine, correct? Check out this link, i think they have a few brochures and manuals.

KÖLLE DH 63 - WOOD TEC PEDIA (hoechsmann.com) (https://wtp.hoechsmann.com/en/lexikon/14273/dh_63)

[Bradley Gray]

You might try raising the pressure bar a bit

[Steve Jenkins]

First thing to do is make the bed is slippery. Paste wax spread on and buffed off is maybe the most common method.

[Joe Calhoon]

Those rollers are for sure shot. Recovering might be the best option. I cannot tell from the pictures if they are in 3 sections like the Martin and Panhans rollers.
Scott and Sargent sell feed rollers for a few brands of planers made by Itech. I use them on my T 90 and like better than the original ones. You might contact them to see if they have anything that might fit Kolle.
https://www.scosarg.com/accessories-spares/feed-rollers-rubber

[Chris Pyle]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm reaching out to Scott and Sargent and Western Roller to get their take on the rollers. I'll post more pics of connection points between the rollers and the machine. Still trying to figure out how they lock them down snug when I don't see any immediately obvious bolts going running top to bottom.

[Chris Pyle]

I can do a more thorough search later, but there are several german forums that have archives of vintage german machines. More times than not, the manuals are in german(shocker), but it is how i received a manual for a 1970s Martin T75.

Ha, success! you have the 24" machine, correct? Check out this link, i think they have a few brochures and manuals.

KÖLLE DH 63 - WOOD TEC PEDIA (hoechsmann.com) (https://wtp.hoechsmann.com/en/lexikon/14273/dh_63)

Hi Patrick, thanks for doing that search. Sadly, unless I'm missing something, most of those are sales brochures touting the specs. I still haven't found a manual that shows exploded parts diagram or anything with maintenance schedules, etc. If you happen to come across one on the German forums, I'd be most grateful!

[Chris Pyle]

Those rollers are for sure shot. Recovering might be the best option. I cannot tell from the pictures if they are in 3 sections like the Martin and Panhans rollers.
Scott and Sargent sell feed rollers for a few brands of planers made by Itech. I use them on my T 90 and like better than the original ones. You might contact them to see if they have anything that might fit Kolle.
https://www.scosarg.com/accessories-spares/feed-rollers-rubber

Thanks for weighing in Joe. I really appreciate any input since you've seen more German arn than most. I'll take some more pics to hopefully help us get this riddle solved. I'm anxious to get this fixed up.

[Chris Pyle]

I removed the covers and found some more pieces to the puzzle.
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One of the metal plates has been twisted in the picture below, you can see the red square (this is likely part of the problem or another problem entirely. I don't know what would cause that):
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Are there any precautions I need to make, witness marks, etc. before starting to take the rollers off in the back?

[Jay Houghton]

Just so I understand, those rollers are outfeed rollers? It looks like they have spring loaded pressure mounts so if you release the bolt holding/adjusting the pressure on the roller they should lift right out from the top. Of course you'll need to get the sprocket off and the chain drive.
On the subject of Western roller, I've used then a bunch of times for new tires on power feeders and they are excellent to work with.
If your board gets stuck then the rollers have lost their grip from either being worn out or too much pressure.
That'll be $0.02 please.
Jay

[Chris Pyle]

Just so I understand, those rollers are outfeed rollers? It looks like they have spring loaded pressure mounts so if you release the bolt holding/adjusting the pressure on the roller they should lift right out from the top. Of course you'll need to get the sprocket off and the chain drive.
On the subject of Western roller, I've used then a bunch of times for new tires on power feeders and they are excellent to work with.
If your board gets stuck then the rollers have lost their grip from either being worn out or too much pressure.
That'll be $0.02 please.
Jay

Yeah, since I'm completely new to this level of machinery I think I omitted some steps after I transported them to my shop. I didn't do a thorough inspection after unloading and I didn't recalibrate the planer so I'm thinking i'll replace the rollers and then go about measuring from the bed to the cutterhead to find my 'zero' then adjusting the infeed roller, chip breaker, pressure bar and outfeed rollers. You are looking at the pair of outfeed rollers on the back. I've found some literature on where these values should be but does anyone else have suggestions on the values roller/chip breaker/pressure bar/outfeed rollers/etc?

[Joe Calhoon]

Chris, I just sent you a PM for a contact of another person that has a Kolle planer. Possibly he can help you.

on the Martin the roller height is measured with a length of wood cut at 200mm with the planer table set at a certain height.
will probably be a similar process with the Kolle.
joe

[Bill Dufour]

I thought it was just cheap lunchbox planers that used rubber outfeed rollers. Solid machines hold tolerances better and do not need rubber's flex to make up any derivations?
Bill D

[Patrick Kane]

Im pretty sure rubber is an option for the highest end planers--such as the OP's machine--and it gives you the ability to take super light cuts without marring the planed surface like a serrated/knurled steel roller would do. It is very rare that i see witness marks off my powermatic planer. I would need to take a 1/32" cut or less to see those marks on my planed surfaces. However, i do see the advantage, and definitely the advantage of duel outfeed rollers. I believe the T45 uses a very similar setup, and that is largely considered to be the industry leading machine. I just looked and the SCM s7 also offers duel rubber outfeed rollers. Now, the downside to steel rollers is obviously wear. I could use my machine for the next 100 years and i doubt i would ever have a complete chunk tear free of the roller like the OP's. Having them recovered and swapping them every 3-4 decades doesnt seem like that bad of a trade off. I dont know if the OP has dated his machines, but im pretty sure that planer and jointer are late 80s. They have outlived their lifespan no doubt because of the one man shop they came from.

[Chris Pyle]

Im pretty sure rubber is an option for the highest end planers--such as the OP's machine--and it gives you the ability to take super light cuts without marring the planed surface like a serrated/knurled steel roller would do. It is very rare that i see witness marks off my powermatic planer. I would need to take a 1/32" cut or less to see those marks on my planed surfaces. However, i do see the advantage, and definitely the advantage of duel outfeed rollers. I believe the T45 uses a very similar setup, and that is largely considered to be the industry leading machine. I just looked and the SCM s7 also offers duel rubber outfeed rollers. Now, the downside to steel rollers is obviously wear. I could use my machine for the next 100 years and i doubt i would ever have a complete chunk tear free of the roller like the OP's. Having them recovered and swapping them every 3-4 decades doesnt seem like that bad of a trade off. I dont know if the OP has dated his machines, but im pretty sure that planer and jointer are late 80s. They have outlived their lifespan no doubt because of the one man shop they came from.

Thanks for the info Patrick, the machines are actually late 90s but I can still handle a recover every 2 decades without a worry. I wonder if it'd be easier to find a maintenance manual for the T45 and S7 so I can figure out what settings are suggested by Martin and SCM for their machines. Perhaps starting there when recalibrating wouldn't be a bad first pass.

[Warren Lake]

I think they have different machining depending on brands, some leave marks more than others on light passes. Have found rubber on the Woodmaster grabs better than one past General planer did.

[Chris Pyle]

Thanks to Joe for putting me in contact with someone who had a manual and was kind enough to get it to me. It was a huge benefit in getting the rollers out.

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Once i had the rollers removed, I started testing just to see how the cutterhead aligned to the planer table and I found a .007"+ variance across the length of the cutterhead. I looked all over for some kind of mechanism to adjust the bed or cutterhead and this is the most promising thing, albeit rather small:

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Could these be the planer table height adjustments?

Also, for the outfeed roller housings/bearings, do I just use a basic ball bearing grease? ie - any type of lithium grease?
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Thanks in advance to anyone who can offer help.

[Bill Dufour]

My powermatic 18" planer specs NGLI#1 grease for most of the bearings like that. It is a lighter/softer lithium grease. Most grease is NGLI #2 which is thicker and designed to get softer and flow better at high rpm like wheel bearing not bed rollers rpm's.
None of the local autoparts stores seem to have NGLI#1 grease. I wonder if cotton picker grease is #1. Many sellers do not indicate the NGLI number.
BillD

EDIT:
Cotton picker is #00
Corn head is #0

[Bill Dufour]

Your grease does not need to be high pressure, high temperature , nor waterproof.
Bill D

[Chris Pyle]

Thanks Bill, I'll start looking for NGLI#1 grease. I found a local supplier who stocks Lubriplate 1552, which was suggested to me for the cutterhead bearings so I'm going to see if they have any NGLI #1 grease in stock.

[Jerry Bruette]

Do those blocks have grease zerks? We had a machine at work that had similar looking bearings and the manufacturer recommend not lubricating them.

If you have the means to do it I would measure the bearings for concentricity before putting them back together. Now's the time to correct any problems with worn components.

[Chris Pyle]

They do not have zerks. The only available zerks are for the cutterhead on the planer (and jointer). The manual suggests adding grease but I wanted to be certain I used the correct type. They have shields on one side.

I know nothing about measuring bearings for concentricity so I'll do some reading up tonight and reply tomorrow. Can I just use dial calipers inside the bearing at multiple points?

[Jerry Bruette]

They do not have zerks. The only available zerks are for the cutterhead on the planer (and jointer). The manual suggests adding grease but I wanted to be certain I used the correct type. They have shields on one side.

I know nothing about measuring bearings for concentricity so I'll do some reading up tonight and reply tomorrow. Can I just use dial calipers inside the bearing at multiple points?

Yep, that's what I mean. Just make sure they're not oval.

[Kevin Jenness]

Once i had the rollers removed, I started testing just to see how the cutterhead aligned to the planer table and I found a .007"+ variance across the length of the cutterhead. I looked all over for some kind of mechanism to adjust the bed or cutterhead and this is the most promising thing, albeit rather small:

494441
494442
Could these be the planer table height adjustments?


How is the planer table height adjusted? On my old Powermatic there are two acme threaded rods running through threaded flange nuts set in the table which can be rotated to dial in the side to side height. Perhaps the Kolle has something similar. If there are four posts connected by a chain you may be able to shim under or rotate their bases. If the cutterhead has straight knives with gibs you can set them level with the bed. Does the manual not cover this?

[Bill Dufour]

See page 6+7 for lube recommendations for the Powermatic 18" planer.

Bill D.
Lubriplate 630AA is the grease I was talking about.

https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/Grease/Multi-Purpose-Greases/630-Series/NO-630-AA

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/655/825.pdf

[Joe Calhoon]

Chris,
the Kolle feed rolls look similar to Martins except they appear to be one piece. Mine are 3 pieces for one span.
No idea on the grease, mine has sealed bearings for the feed rollers but I think Bill is on the right track.
the Kundig sander has rollers with zerks and they recommended Kluber Staburags NBU 12. It was freaking expensive but I figured if they recommend I better go with it.
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[Bill Dufour]

Be careful for the high speed bearings. Too much grease is bad and will cause premature failure. About 1/3 fill is standard.
Bill D

[Chris Pyle]

Thanks Bill and Joe. I think that has me up to speed on my current bearing needs.

I'll be stopping by the local bearing shop (if the ice outside will allow) to see what NGLI#1 they have for the roller bearings and grab my cutterhead grease (Lubriplate 1552). Then I'll keep searching for the table adjustment mechanism that I know must exist.

Kevin,

Sadly, the manual I have covers basics but it doesn't have an exploded parts diagram and it doesn't talk about adjusting the table. My planer is a 2-post design but has some steel bars that are used as references on the four corners of the table. I'm not well-versed in the different designs of other planers so I'm uncertain how common/unusual this is. I'm hesitant to unbolt one of the post bases to shim because I'm near certain their exists a mechanism for accomplishing this task.

My cutterhead is similar to Tersa so there is no ability to set the knives on a slope to adjust for table height differences.

[Kevin Jenness]

Sight unseen my guess is the machine has adjustable threaded flanges either in the bottom of the bed or in the machine base. Take a look at post#26 in this thread for a diagram of a Felder setup https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?298943-How-do-you-remove-this-sprocket/page2 and p.8 of this manual for Powermatic http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/655/825.pdf. Hope you get it sorted. Looks like a nice planer.