Help! Grizzly GO566 frustration and disappointment-long [Archive]

t peterson

01-27-2006, 11:45 AM

I recently purchased a Griz GO566 21" Bandsaw. Tool of a lifetime for me. I've been a professional/hobbist woodworker for nearly 40 of my 62 years. I learned early on to save my money and buy the best and have worked very hard to purchase what I consider a fine group of woodworking machines-PM cabinet saw and lathe, 14" Jet BS, 6" Rigid Jointer and Delta Planner, etc. All required some assembly, set up and tuning and everyone worked perfectly from the get go. So, understandably I was stoked to get this new machine...nearly $2000 of my hard earned savings and 700 pounds. I wired up the plug, connected it to the machine and after following all preliminary procedures turned it on. The motor hummed, nothing turned. I rewired the plug-same thing. I called Griz Technical Assistance and in the course of talking to 5 different technicians and one of their electritions over a period of 6 days (and exlpaining the same situation to each of them) I have (under their guidance) removed the motor cover and fan, adjusted the electromagnetic switch so the contact points are touching properly, removed and replaced both the motor starting and motor running capacitors. Same problem, motor hums when I press the starter button and stops when release, no heat, no smoke, no moving parts. I missed work this morning so I could speak with one of their electrical specialists only to find out he's off today. The TA I spoke with this morning now says I need to disconnect the motor and remove it from the machine. This entails removing the lower fly wheel, two belts, two pulleys, and 4 bolts. He also pointed out that when he attempted this procedure he had to heat the pullys with a torch to above 212F to free them up. Then I am to return the motor to them, receive another and install and restore my machine by myself. Perhaps the manufacturers of my other tools would have required the same thing of me. Point is NONE of those tools failed to preform flawlessly.

I have tried to be understanding throughout this process and the folks at Griz have been cordial but this pisses me off. While the above may seem simple tasks to some, I'm a woodworker, not an electrican. I'm at a loss. Perhaps my next step should be to contact a local electrician and have them look at the darn thing. Right now I have a $2000 dollar, 700 pound paperweight in the middle of my shop that has never cut a stick of wood. I was thinking about purchasing their 8" jointer but I don't think I'll ever buy another Grizzly tool.

ANY comment, guidance and/or advice is appreciated. And, thanks for the opportunity to express my frustration. tom

Don Baer

01-27-2006, 11:55 AM

Tom,
My condolances. You have every right to be Upset. $2000 is a lot to spend and get a boat anchor. Thats why I only buy machines I can take back to the place I bought them from. I guess that will leave Griz off of my list of suppliers.

Howard Norman

01-27-2006, 11:57 AM

Sorry to hear of your frustrations with a new saw.

If it was me I would try to get hold of someone higher in the Grizzly customer service chain first. You may well have to return the motor to Grizzly. If the motor pulleys will not come off without the use of a torch I would leave them on the motor and let Grizzly worry about that problem. They certainly can ship new pulleys when they ship a new motor.

Just my two cents.

Howard

tom blankenship

01-27-2006, 11:58 AM

Hello t peterson,

I too expect things to work when you pay for them. A small, readily corrected assembly error is one thing, but you should not have to rebuild this machine before you get to use it. Grizzly should have it picked up at your convenience and supply you with a properly functioning machine, immediately.

tom

Dev Emch

01-27-2006, 12:08 PM

Ummmm Hmmmmm, Girlfriend!!!! This statement says it all in context except for the fact we are both boys. Nonetheless, the context of this phase says it all!

At any rate Tom, I am sincerely sorry about your issues here. Realisticly, I shouldn't even be sticking my nose into this problem as I normally dont DOOO Grizzly.

O.K. Not being there on the spot makes this difficult to debug and forces me to ask stupid questions and may cause you to repeat yourself. So bear with me.

1). Calm Down. Lets get the specs on the table. Who made the motor? What does the motor nametag say? Voltages, phase, horsepower, full load amps, etc.

2). How did you order the machine? Single phase, three phase, 110 volts, 220 volts, 440 volts, etc. What type of starting switch do you have? Regular switch or magnetic starter? Was there a plug or wire extension attached to the machine when you got it?

3). Is this machine by any chance a dual voltage machine?

4). With the saw blade detensioned or off, can you easily rotate the lower saw wheel? Also, how many speeds to you have with this machine? Just one?

5). Can you post any relevent photos? Not of the whole machine silly... but of the starter, the motor, the sheeves, etc. Something to tell us if its safe to cut the blue wire or the red wire as they do in hollywood.:D

6). Is there a junction box on the side of the motor?

This should help to get us started. From here, we can begin clicking off a few theories. As for using the blue wrench (propane torch), I would warn you to be extremely cautious. Its very easy to harm the item your working on with the blue wrench!!!

Rich Torino

01-27-2006, 12:10 PM

sorry to hear you are having so much trouble....
When you said you wired the plug I'm assuming it is a 220 setup...
Did Grizzly TA's have you check the wiring on the motor to assure it is wired for 220V?? My experience is that the motors can be wired for either 110 or 220..For instance I have a Grizzly G0555 band saw that came wired for 110 and inculded (under the switch cover) the 220 wiring diagram..

Rich

CPeter James

01-27-2006, 12:11 PM

Small adjustments are one thing, rebuilding a brand new machine are another. If I buy used, I expect to do some work, when I buy new, expect it to work out of the box with only the only corrections necessary due to shipping. THIS IS NOT RIGHT AND YOU SHOULD DEMAND A NEW MACHINE AND COMPENSATION FOR YOUR WASTED TIME!!!!!!

CPeter

Jeff Sudmeier

01-27-2006, 12:17 PM

Dev Emch

01-27-2006, 12:34 PM

Yep, only way to solve this is a new machine, their expense. Come pick up the old and replace with the new.

The woodnet forums (Google it) have a member named Papa Griz, if you PM him or email him, you may get a better response. He is a higher up of grizzly.

Good Morning Jeff!
Yah, Papa Griz lives here too. But SMC requires open komona regarding names. So the prez has to use his real name and not papa grizz.:D

Doug Jones from Oregon

01-27-2006, 12:49 PM

Tom...you absolutely have a right to be disappointed with your purchase. You have done a great deal of work with Grizzley techs in an attempt to get up and running with no positive results.

Next step, go beyond tech support. Let the sales manager of that branch know that you are unhappy (keep your cool) and that you expect a replacement shipped out asap and a pickup tag for the defective one.

You should not have to go the efforts that you have.

That said, in my opinion, what you have done wrong is to bring it to this forum in such a way. We can't do anything, and you have not really given Grizzley sales dept an opportunity to take care of business. It is this type of rant that will turn folks off and it may not even be warranted.

I'm sure Shiarz will see your post sometime in the next day or two and respond, and resolve the issue...but you probably could have done so yourself...today.

Doug

t peterson

01-27-2006, 12:55 PM

I'm glad to see that some of my colleagues are as disappointed as I am about this. The specs on the motor are:

Type-TEFC Capacitor-STart Iduction, 3 HP, SIngle-phase/220 V, 15 Amp, 60 Hertz/1725 RPM, magnetic switch with thermal overload protection.

All parts rotate smoothly when turned by hand.

This is not a dual voltage machine.

There is a junction box on the side of the motor below the strip of contact points. I removed the cover, jiggled all 30+ wires and checked the amperage setting. It's set for about 18-20 AMPTP

t peterson

01-27-2006, 1:03 PM

Allen Grimes

01-27-2006, 1:08 PM

Tom,

I dont see anything wrong with you original post and you have no reason to apologize. On the contrary, we should thank you for posting this, because customer service can be just as important as the tool itself when problems occur.

Jeffrey Makiel

01-27-2006, 1:09 PM

I'm not sure if you should be doing this since you don't want to deal with electrical issues (which is absolutely fine). Assuming the motor spins when moved by hand. Three things come to my mind: you are wired for the wrong voltage (110 vs 220), or they gave you the wrong phase motor (3 phase vs single phase), or the start capacitor, or centrifugal clutch that disengages the capacitor, is defective. The voltage problem can be addressed by looking at the wiring diagram on the motor's electrical box. The phase issue should be apparant on the motor's data plate. The capactor can be checked with a special meter, or simply swapped out (they are cheap), but this is where I suggest an electrician.

-Jeff

John sexton

01-27-2006, 1:11 PM

Tom,
I have quit a few Grizzly machines along with other brands.
I have the 566 and two other band saws.
I have fond that Grizzly tech to be very helpful but when they start telling you that you have to use a blow torch to fix your NEW machine it is time to get in touch with Papa G.
On one of my large saws the tech had me remove band saw wheel and send it back to have the shaft cut, I did it with out thinking.
Once I thought about I knew it wouldn't solve the problem.
It came back and the saw still had the same problem.
I contacted Papa G and he put a good man on it and we had the problem worked out in no time with a satisfactory solution.
They upgraded me to a better saw since the saw I had the problem with was a older model they didn't make any more.
I am sure if you can get away from dealing with the techs and get to Papa G he will make things right.
By the way that is the only real problem I have had with all of my Grizzly Tools (about $10,000 worth) and I am getting ready to buy another major tool from them.

Frank Pellow

01-27-2006, 1:16 PM

...

That said, in my opinion, what you have done wrong is to bring it to this forum in such a way. We can't do anything, and you have not really given Grizzley sales dept an opportunity to take care of business. It is this type of rant that will turn folks off and it may not even be warranted.
...

Doug
Doug I could not disagree with you more. What was posted by Tom was not a rant -it was a detailed description of the steps taken to try to correct a problem.

And I believe that Tom has done us all a service in bringing this situation to our attention.

Doug Jones

01-27-2006, 1:22 PM

You spend 2 grand on a piece of machinery, you expect it to work. If it doesn't, you expect decent customer service and not the runaround. More and more we are seeing this as the norm, from many companies.

Shiraz Balolia

01-27-2006, 1:24 PM

Mr. Jones..I apologize if I have violated a protocal of the website. My intent was not to rant but use the same calm approach I did with the TAs. Looks like I went over board. I have not had this kind of experience with a new tool and my intention was to seek guidance from this group. Your advice is appreciated. TP

Tom - I am going to have one of my top managers call you to take care of this. And "use a blow torch" is nonsense. We'll take care of that internal issue with the person you spoke to. Before you try any of the things listed as a result of your post, let us work to get it resolved properly and to your satisfaction first.
Sorry about the problem.

Dev Emch

01-27-2006, 1:30 PM

O.K.

What do we know.
* Single Phase Application set for 220 volts.
* TEFC Single Phase motor with mechanical start trip.
* Induction type with capacitor start.
* Mag switch starter.

So, if the motor is good and its not starting, the first thing to do is to verify the start circuit which you may have already done. Three items come to mind. The cutout switch is not closing when the motor is off. (i.e. open contacts all the time). The start capacitor is old and has leaked out its chemicals (chemicals actually outgas from vent hole). These can be had from most motor shops. Thirdly, the start winding is defective. This could be either the start windings within the stator (motor now DOA) or there is a bad connection within the junction box.

Just as an aside, does the starter function? (mag starter). Engage on green, disengage on red? I know its a dumb question but gotta ask.

One way to check the motor is to push the start button and then immediately grab the lower wheel and kick start it. I used to have a compressor like this. You had to kick the flywheel over with a boot to get the pump to start pumping. Yes, this motor was 30 years old an on its last legs. But if this works, then we know we have a starting issue for sure. If not, that does not rule out a starting issue mind you.

Lastly, of the 30 odd wires in the junction box, are any of them labeled? Sometimes its printed on the wire. Sometimes there are plastic or brass collars with the codes on them. Often these labels with a letter followed by a number. Like T1, T2, etc. Keep in mind that three phase dual voltage motors have only 9 leads comming out of the motor. So I am courious why you have 30 wires in there.

Doug Jones from Oregon

01-27-2006, 1:57 PM

Frank
Well, guess it is OK to disagree. If Tom had taken his issues to the next level with Grizzley, and was still not getting satisfaction, I would agree with you. I just don't think that he took the issue high enough.

As shown by the Grizzley response here today, it is obvious that even though they were suits and ties, they aim to take care of business when given the opportunity.

My post was not meant to be an attack on Tom's original post...just my thoughts that it was premature.

Doug

Barry O'Mahony

01-27-2006, 2:01 PM

One question I have is, what do you have this plugged into? Socket type, branch circuit breaker size, etc. How did you wire the plug?

Kurt Forbes

01-27-2006, 2:12 PM

Tom - I am going to have one of my top managers call you to take care of this. And "use a blow torch" is nonsense. We'll take care of that internal issue with the person you spoke to. Before you try any of the things listed as a result of your post, let us work to get it resolved properly and to your satisfaction first.
Sorry about the problem.

Papa Grizley=Shiraz Balolia
Looks like the problem is going to get resolved.
I think it is awesome that he reads here and can help out with problems like this. I wish more corporate types would do this.
From posts like this on several forums I think grizzley has alot of new support staff and is in the process of weeding the chaff from the grain.
Nice thing is that once they hear about stupid suport issues like thin they usually make it right.

Please keep us updated and let us know how this turns out.
Too many people bring gripes here and never post follow up's about the good things that happened to resolve the problem.

Allen Grimes

01-27-2006, 2:16 PM

Douglas,

Maybe you dont feel the same way, but I think that the first person to pick up the phone is the only person the customer should have to talk to, there is no reason that Tom, or anybody for that matter, should have to hunt down a manager or somebody higher up to get his problem resolved. The people on the customer service line are there to help, not to tell you to get out your blowtorch.

Have you ever heard the saying "we are only as strong as our weakest link"?

Anyway, you, personally, may not have liked what Tom had to say (though I don't understand why), but I appreciate it and I am sure others do as well. This forum is here so we can all learn from eachother.

Shiraz Balolia

01-27-2006, 2:29 PM

Donnie Raines

01-27-2006, 2:38 PM

These threads are getting rather old. While I appreciate the original poster issue...I can almost always predict who is going to post and what their going to say. It's almost like a political issue....you have these guys on one side and these guys on the other.

You never gonna change anyones minds expcept for those in the middle...maybe.

Rob Blaustein

01-27-2006, 2:48 PM

I think everyone needs to chill here!

Tom, I understand Bill has already spoken with you . Please DO NOT follow any instructions given to you on this thread by anyone other than Grizzly. This is our problem, and we will take care of you, the right way.
Bravo. Think about this folks--Shiraz runs a reasonably-sized company that sells (I guess) thousands and thousands of tools a year. I imagine SMC purchases represent a rather small fraction of his customer base, yet he takes the time to read posts here, provide feedback, and even customer support. As people have pointed out, while it would be nice to never have to talk to more than one support person, the world is not perfect and some support people need more training than others. One of the things that make people hesitate to buy mail order is the time you need to spend dealing with machines that have problems--in Grizzly's case, it's good to know that the boss will stand by his products. Helps make my jointer decision a little easier...

t peterson

01-27-2006, 2:52 PM

Folks..I received a personal message from one of the members and sent the response below. Also, I retract my statement about not buying another Grizzly tool. It was a regretful rush to judgement but it would have been much better if this could have been resolved wiith the first contact. Enough of that. Based on the comments from Mr. Balolia I'm confident there will be a resolution to my problem. Thanks to all who took the time to comment and provide advice. TP

"Thanks for the personal message ****. I don't have a lot of time to spend on message boards but in checking around I think the SMC folks are well informed and non-judgemental. Both are traits I admire.

Per your comment about the Grizzly CEO, you probably noticed he posted a message of concern and resolved to remedy the problem. I am very impressed. Shortly, and I mean minutes after his post I received a phone call from his representative. We talked at length but since I am at work he said he would call back again later.

Finally, I really was not trying to rant. Just didn't know what steps to take next and thought I'd try here. Had I realized that quality control was such a high priority of the Grizzly company and the CEO was so accessible, I would have taken that course of action.

Thanks again, tom.

lloyd morris

01-27-2006, 3:49 PM

Tom,

I am really sorry you have had these problems with your new bandsaw. I have no doubt Shiraz Balolia will resolve this issue in very short order for you.

Last year I went through a similar issue with a new Delta X5 bandsaw. Without the significant advantage of the President of the company being an active member of the Sawmill Creek Forums the issues with my Delta bandsaw became a long and frustrating ordeal.

In my case it took four months, at least a dozen phone calls and e-mails and a lot of parts being sent back and forth before things finally were finally taken care of in a satisfactory manner. I also recieved my share of bad advice on what to do to resolve the issues for Delta's Customer Service which compounded the problems.

Personally I do not own any Grizzly tools, however your experience and more importantly Shiraz Balolia's fast and professional response to it make me more inclined to buy Grizzly on my next tool purchase.

Let us know how it turns out for you and how you like your bandsaw.

Lloyd Morris

Mark Rios

01-27-2006, 3:50 PM

After reading Mr. Balolia's post and his concern with Tom's problem, I just had to laugh at the thought's that must have run through Shiraz's head while reading the original post. Can you imagine the president of a company reading that someone from his company telling a customer that the way to fix a problem with one of their products was to take a torch to it? I can only imagine how fast Mr. Balolia's fingers must have been working to get ahold of the CS/Tech department and find out why they are giving out that kind of "Technical Support". I was cracking up at the absurdity of the advice. I feel bad for Tom (but all will be fine) and for Mr. Balolia for having to deal with this situation (I guess that some serious training meetings will be forthcoming). Let's don't forget, machines will occasionally have trouble. What matters here is that THE PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY gets these things taken care of. HE CARES!!! Find that from Jet or Delta or PM or whomever.

I, for one, am continually impressed with the way that Mr. Balolia is concerned with the reputation of his company and with his desire to make it better. This only makes me more of a loyal customer that I am. Two years ago I had a little trouble with the G0555 and G1182 that I had purchased. After not being able to get it totally worked out with the tech's that I talked to I was able to get ahold of a person a little higher up and all was worked out just fine. Their CS is only getting better and better.

For those of us that, for WHATEVER reason, choose not to have the most expensive machines in our shops, Grizzly has whatever we need or want to make whatever our big and little minds can think of. After all, does anyone really think that the absolutely wonderful, world class instruments that Mr. Balolia makes are made on anything other than Grizzly tools?

Allen Bookout

01-27-2006, 3:51 PM

I will say one thing in support of the tech guy that suggested shipping back the motor and possibly having to heat the shaft and or the pulley to get it off. I suppose that it depends upon who he is talking to. I sure would rather do that than have to ship the whole tool back to have it replaced if it is just a motor problem. A lot less of a problem and faster also I suspect. Allen

John Shuk

01-27-2006, 4:31 PM

Shiraz, I applaud your efforts. It is very inspiring to see you involved here. And not just involved in customer service issues that crop up.
Tom, I bought a Laguna Bandsaw which is highly regarded in most circles. I had to do some "rebuilding" myself. Many others have also had to. Stuff does happen. Quite often it happens to me. It sounds like you are going to be well taken care of through it all though and that is what sets a company apart. I wish you the best with this and I hope you post a positve outcome to this. I suspect you will.

Dev Emch

01-27-2006, 5:08 PM

I think everyone needs to chill here!

Tom, I understand Bill has already spoken with you . Please DO NOT follow any instructions given to you on this thread by anyone other than Grizzly. This is our problem, and we will take care of you, the right way.

I agree and as I recall, it was the Grizzly service guys who said it may be necessary to use the BLUE WRENCH to pull that pulley off. I was first to say wowwwww neellly, do not use the blue wrench! Me, I have a complete set of Snap-On Gear and Pulley pullers so I would never advocate the use of the BLUE WRENCH.

Best of Luck...

Allen Grimes

01-27-2006, 5:12 PM

Just to clarify myself,

My intention was in no way to bash Grizzly, I was merely defending the original poster's right to say whatever he wants on this board. I do stand by everything I said, though.

As for Shiraz Balolia himself, I do appreciate the fact that he is so willing to help the people from this and other forums, but I am still curious as to how well people get treated if they dont have access to the internet.

John Bailey

01-27-2006, 5:27 PM

T,

I hope when you get that big bear up and running that you'll do a review on it. It's still on my short list, although the larger machine gets, the longer I'm going to be "researching."

John

Scott Coffelt

01-27-2006, 5:43 PM

The one thing we seem to have left in the US is customer service, unfortunately there are times when it is sorely lacking. Products don break, can be bad out of the box, get damaged in shipment... they are in fact a product and that happens...everyday to all kinds of folks. For many yes their only way of getting things fixed is through a phone and they also do not know the president. It is a shame any time something would have to go that far, but we are lucky for the times it happens with Grizzly we have someone we can turn to to have the buck stop there. Be thankful we have that, as i have said before it is a shame we don't have more presidents of tool companies on this forum or others.

Barry O'Mahony

01-27-2006, 6:03 PM

Tom,

When you get it up and running, please be sure to post a review (on another thread!)

craig carlson

01-27-2006, 6:37 PM

Tom,

There was absolutely nothing wrong to your original or subsequent post. You owe no one an apology. It seems to me that you have already gone the extra mile in trying to resolve this yourself, and if you had not posted, you probadly would never have heard of papa griz. I am sure that the tech, that said to use a torch on the pulley would have never forwarded your call to papa griz. I suggest going over to woodnet, joining, do a search for papa griz and send him a PM. I am sure the man will take of you.

Craig Carlson

Frank Pellow

01-27-2006, 11:27 PM

Doug Jones from Oregon

01-28-2006, 12:52 PM

Frank...thanks for the note.

I guess as a manufacture of sorts, I'm a little sensitive when I see a complaint on a forum similar to this that supports the craft that I sell to before they have attempted to contact me...being a one man shop, I'm the where the buck starts and stops!

By the way, I was born in Toronto many years ago...from what I understand, the house I first lived in was in the way of what is now a runway at the airport...sure glad we moved! It is funny in a way that the same thing happend to a house we lived in while in Calgary, and Sydey, BC...my parents sure knew how to pick those house!

Have a Coffee Crisp on me!

Doug