Warning about fancy thermostat getting UNSUPORTED , FAST

[Bill Dufour]

I have a sensi thermostat about 5-7 years old. I guess they just updated the wifi operating system and I can no longer control it with my phone. My phone android system is to old.
So no way to change the program. Lucky the program is okay heat on at. 5:30 am off around 7:00. and on a few hours around 6:00. No longer have remote control to turn the heat or ac on right before we get home.
Really not as good as a 30 year old clock thermostat would be.
I am not going to rush out and buy a new phone every few years to make it work. I could get a free phone upgrade from verizon. But free costs an extra $20 A MONTH!
BILL D

[Alan Rutherford]

"Old" cell phones that are newer than the phones you and I use are everywhere and really inexpensive. You don't need cell phone service to control a thermostat or for that matter to do anything you want involving the internet. It sounds like all you need is a newer version of Android and to download an app. Look around or ask your favorite younger person and see if you can't find a phone you can designate as the remote for your thermostat. You might have to pay a little something once, but it won't be monthly.

[Myk Rian]

Go to the Play store and look for an update for the app.

[Jim Becker]

The issue isn't the thermostat. The company is clearly supporting it with their app. The issue is that their app now requires a more current version of the mobile OS...that's a normal thing because the tools that companies use to build apps have to use the available application interfaces built into the mobile device operating system. (the same is true for applications that run on Windows, MacOS, Linux, etc...) The thermostat manufacturer pretty much has no choice in the availability to the application programming interfaces and it's not reasonable for them to maintain multiple versions of their software (if that was even possible) so they can support older devices. Your version of Android doesn't support the current APIs required for some current generation applications. Nature of the beast.

[Lee Schierer]

Carrier just did the same thing to my smart thermostat. The product came with an app called "My Infinity". The app screens looked and worked just looked the thermostat screens and had pretty much the same features. The thermostat works fine, but they decided that the original app (My Infinity) was too hard to operate for someone??? They came out with a new app called, Carrier Home, that has fewer features but is easy to operate...all it lets you do is change the temperature or mode!!! It worked on my android phone and android tablet. Then a week or so back, they updated the Carrier Home app and it will no longer run on my android Tablet. They haven't added any functionality, yet, but I can't use my tablet any more. I contacted the software group responsible and they told me they are working on new features and that is why they made the change. I can still use my phone and eventually they will add back some of the features they eliminated when they changed from My Infinity to Carrier Home and yes at some undetermined date down the road they will once again make it so it will run on a tablet running Android.

Fortunately the My Infinity app continues to work on both my phone and tablet and has all the features that I would ever want.

[Ron Citerone]

The issue isn't the thermostat. The company is clearly supporting it with their app. The issue is that their app now requires a more current version of the mobile OS...that's a normal thing because the tools that companies use to build apps have to use the available application interfaces built into the mobile device operating system. (the same is true for applications that run on Windows, MacOS, Linux, etc...) The thermostat manufacturer pretty much has no choice in the availability to the application programming interfaces and it's not reasonable for them to maintain multiple versions of their software (if that was even possible) so they can support older devices. Your version of Android doesn't support the current APIs required for some current generation applications. Nature of the beast.

Jim sometimes you scare me with you knowledge!

[Jack Frederick]

I feel your pain. I feel like I’m on a billiards table. In billiards there are no pockets as opposed to a pool table. The pool table offers some refuge in the pockets. I’m like Joe Pesci’s comment in Good Fellas, Bing, Bang, Boom as I careen around the table with no hope of figuring these things out. Tech service has a ball at break time. “Yeah, I had this guy this morning…” He is in hysterics and cannot even describe our conversation. It is good to offer a level of entertainment but holy smokes!

[Bill Dufour]

A little more research shows the new app is hated by most users. too many small buttons hard to figure out. Not easy to use unless you are sitting down, not driving etc. no new abilities just more confusing interface. I hope they throw out all the dated executives every five years for the new improved models.
Bill D.
PS this is the one being pushed by Hoe Despot!

[Karl Loeblein]

… Not easy to use unless you are sitting down, not driving etc…. !


Some apps don’t need to be easy to use while driving. Just not something that I would knock a thermostat app for.

[Jim Becker]

I sure wouldn't want to be a app developer for this kind of thing because the audience is so broad...from folks who can be happy with (and only comprehend) on/off through folks who want total, granular control. I'll be up front that I wish the app for my mini split in the shop had a bit more detail including diagnostics, even though I rarely make a change to anything. I also lament the fact that I have to have multiple apps for all the "smart" things I own and they are all different. Somehow I don't think that's going to change anytime soon...

[Bill George]

All I have ever used has been Honeywell, and the last one (WiFi Vision Pro 8000) my son gave to me because he wanted color! Its WiFi and uses an app called 72 Deg and its wonderful, zero complaints. PS List price on these is $289.

[Bill Dufour]

I belive Sensi was an independent company then recently emmerson bought it and updated the app so it is not compatible with older phones.
Bill D

[Brian Elfert]

I doubt Emerson is purposely making changes to not support old phones. It is more likely that when they update the app to take advantage of newer phones that support goes away for older phones. Emerson is not in the phone business (So far as I know.) so Emerson doesn't benefit if you have to buy a new phone.

[John K Jordan]

I want no smart devices. I don’t want a smart fridge, toaster, thermostat, door lock, nothing that needs an app on a “smart”phone. I do have a so-called smart watch, not actually very smart, which requires an phone app to set up and see the data. I want the watch only to monitor sleep and heart rate for health reasons. And to quickly see the time and date without digging the dang phone out of my pocket - sometimes difficult while out feeding horses with layers of insulated clothes.

However, as a previous software developer for scientific and technical applications (not “apps”) I hereby pronounce the phone app terrible, probably quickly created from a toybox full of routines by some kid clueless to the established principles of quality user interfaces. I think such pick and plug software development is responsible for most of the memory bloat and inefficiency seen in the last few decades.

The phone app for my previous fitness watch was better but I would still give it only 2 stars out of 5 for the same reason. All this makes me wonder if true software development wizards are a dying breed.

JKJ

[Mike Henderson]

However, as a previous software developer for scientific and technical applications (not “apps”) I hereby pronounce the phone app terrible, probably quickly created from a toybox full of routines by some kid clueless to the established principles of quality user interfaces. I think such pick and plug software development is responsible for most of the memory bloat and inefficiency seen in the last few decades.

The phone app for my previous fitness watch was better but I would still give it only 2 stars out of 5 for the same reason. All this makes me wonder if true software development wizards are a dying breed.

JKJ

I certainly agree with you, but I'm amazed at how quickly some apps (and other software) is produced. Back when I was doing some of this stuff, we had to jump through hoops to reduce CPU and memory usage. These days, the software people essentially have a "tool box' and fit pieces together without any concern for CPU and memory usage.

But they can produce an app very quickly. They get it out and modify it as they get feedback. I think that's a good approach given how fast things move today. Older languages, such as C, would take too long to get a product out.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

I doubt Emerson is purposely making changes to not support old phones. It is more likely that when they update the app to take advantage of newer phones that support goes away for older phones. Emerson is not in the phone business (So far as I know.) so Emerson doesn't benefit if you have to buy a new phone.
Exactly.......

[roger wiegand]

I'm not big on complex apps to do simple things, but I have to admit I was thrilled this fall for two reasons, 1), every device that I care about in my house other than the wind up clocks (of which there are more than a few), as well as our cars, updated themselves to standard time without my intervention, and 2) this is surely the death knell for daylight saving time. (I've never set the clock on the microwave, fortunately they no longer blink 12:00)

Our utility company did a promotion a couple years ago and sold Nest thermostats for $9.95 each. I swapped all of ours out and now have no more batteries to go dead and no more time change to worry about. They are programmed now, and barring a huge electromagnetic pulse, I'll never need to look at the app again (until they die, anyway).

[Mike Henderson]

We don't have programmable thermostats and don't miss them. I tried them in the past but didn't find a lot of value add. Now, when we want heat or cool, we adjust the thermostat.

What I want is an extremely RELIABLE Internet connected device that gives me control over my garage doors and reports whether my garage door is open or closed. A couple of years ago, I did some research on devices like that, but there were too many reports of the device opening the doors without being commanded to do so.

Mike

[Lee Schierer]

What I like about our Infinity thermostat is the vacation setting. I can set it up to adjust the temperature shortly after we leave on a trip and also have it adjust back to normal setting a short time before we return. The internet connection lets me make changes to that schedule if our plans change like they did on our last trip and we have to return home early (or later).

It will also alert me if anything goes wrong while we are away.

[Mike Henderson]

What I like about our Infinity thermostat is the vacation setting. I can set it up to adjust the temperature shortly after we leave on a trip and also have it adjust back to normal setting a short time before we return. The internet connection lets me make changes to that schedule if our plans change like they did on our last trip and we have to return home early (or later).

It will also alert me if anything goes wrong while we are away.

We have a low tech way of doing that. We can text a friend who lives nearby and has a key to our house.:)

Mike

[We do the same for her.]

[Kev Williams]

We've had 'simple' programmable thermostats for many years. At 1am temp reduces from 69 to 65, at 7am it goes up to 72 then 9am back to 69, until 1am and back to 65... Same but other temps in the summer for the AC. I guess it would be nice to be able change the thermostat on the fly with the phone, but, like Alexa and a whole lotta other tech stuff these days, that's just plain something I/we don't need :)

[John K Jordan]

…I think that's a good approach given how fast things move today. Older languages, such as C, would take too long to get a product out.

I’m sure that’s true in todays consumer market. But I’m not sure I would like working where the norm appears to be throw it out the door ASAP then do the QA later based on user complaints!

For the field I was in quality was king and sometimes execution speed was queen - budget and development time considerations were secondary: some clients seemed to have unlimited funds and the patience of the long view. I usually developed in C for the execution speed, especially since the computer hardware was relatively slow then.

On a few projects we didn’t rely on any libraries except for the bullet-proof low level I/O calls (no GUI like Windows, even in the background) - everything was built from scratch to assure things would always work the same. Testing was a huge part of the effort since an error might result in equipment destruction, or in one project, fatalities.

All that was good clean fun but I have to say I do enjoy this life: woodturning, moving dirt and logs with big tools, feeding critters, repairing fences, incubating peacock eggs, harvesting fruit and veggies, reading forum posts... :)

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

We don't have programmable thermostats and don't miss them. I tried them in the past but didn't find a lot of value add. Now, when we want heat or cool, we adjust the thermostat.

Since I only adjust the thermostat about twice a year...to switch between heat and cooling, rinse, repeat the following year...the ability to change the settings remotely isn't all that valuable to me, either. But I do like the ability to look at things remotely. For the shop, I might actually make changes more frequently than the house, such as if I'm going to be "gone" for a long enough period of time that changing the setting makes sense. That's a mini split so no traditional thermostat, anyway, and the remote that comes with the system isn't useful because it has limited range that's much less than the depth of my shop. So I use the app.

[Bill George]

We have a low tech way of doing that. We can text a friend who lives nearby and has a key to our house.:)

Mike

[We do the same for her.]

So how do you monitor the house temperature when your away? Perhaps you don't live in an area where it freezes? I can log into my Honeywell from Florida or where ever and check my home temperature, and if its set at 60 DegF and then now down at 50 its time to call the repair person. If its set on a vacation temperature setting and I decide to come home early perhaps at night, do I want to call my neighbor and get him/her out of bed.

Since Honeywell also monitors when my TStat checks in, when it fails to log in then Honeywell sends me an email so its either one of two things... power is off to the house or the internet has failed. If it does not check in the next cycle then its time for a phone call to one of my kids.

[Bill Dufour]

With no control I can not change the program time or temperatures. All I can do is switch off the schedule and run it up and down manually. Now that I am retired it seems a waste to turn the heat up at 5:30 Am. It would be nice if it did not turn down the heat around 7:30 am when we get up now.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

Bill, even when we were both working, at least one of us was working from home, if not both on a daily basis. There was no point to scheduling setbacks and there was never a situation that provided discrete zones that permitted keeping a workspace at a different temperature than the rest of the house. Our birds are also temperature sensitive, so that means no lower temps, either, at night during the winter. Being retired for five years now and with Professor Dr. SWMBO about to retire at the end of this academic year (and working from home anyway), nothing has changed.

[Alan Rutherford]

... All this makes me wonder if true software development wizards are a dying breed.

JKJ

Yes, we are.

[Brian Elfert]

So how do you monitor the house temperature when your away? Perhaps you don't live in an area where it freezes? I can log into my Honeywell from Florida or where ever and check my home temperature, and if its set at 60 DegF and then now down at 50 its time to call the repair person. If its set on a vacation temperature setting and I decide to come home early perhaps at night, do I want to call my neighbor and get him/her out of bed.


How did you monitor the temperature of your house back before Internet connected thermostats? I seem to recall devices that could turn on a light if the temperature dropped too low. I assume there were also devices that could call a number from an analog phone and give some sort of low temp warning too.

[Brian Elfert]

I am more worried about the thermostat manufacturer dropping support for the thermostat altogether rather than the app not working with old phone OS versions. My iPhone 8 is more than five years old and still runs the latest iOS so app versions are generally not an issue for me. Apple will probably drop support for the iPhone 8 later this year so I might finally need to look for a new(er) phone. Phone OS versions are a bigger issue with Android phones. A lot of Android phones, especially the cheap models, cannot upgrade to newer version of Android.

[Bill George]

How did you monitor the temperature of your house back before Internet connected thermostats? I seem to recall devices that could turn on a light if the temperature dropped too low. I assume there were also devices that could call a number from an analog phone and give some sort of low temp warning too.

Why would I want to go back to those days? This is 2023 new tech coming along every day folks need to learn the new ways.

[Mike Henderson]

So how do you monitor the house temperature when you're away? Perhaps you don't live in an area where it freezes?

Well, I have to admit that we live in Paradise. Never too hot, never too cold.

Mike

[John K Jordan]

Well, I have to admit that we live in Paradise. Never too hot, never too cold.

Mike

The temperature is certainly wonderful in your area, coast, inland. I used to travel to points from San Fran to San Diego and was never disappointed.
But how is your area now? Are you getting the heavy rain and flooding we see in the news? I haven't seen reports from specific areas.

JKJ

[Mike Henderson]

The temperature is certainly wonderful in your area, coast, inland. I used to travel to points from San Fran to San Diego and was never disappointed.
But how is your area now? Are you getting the heavy rain and flooding we see in the news? I haven't seen reports from specific areas.

JKJ

Thanks for your question, John. Where I am, in southern California, we're getting rain but nothing that's causing any problems. The really hard rains have hit northern California, especially the area above San Francisco. In general, the rains tend to become less intense as you move from Northern California to southern California.

I don't know if the rain could be effectively captured, but we could probably use a bit more of the rain in Southern California. There's basin close to my home where they leave a lot of water in for most of the year, so that it can percolate into the ground. In late fall, they release the remaining water so that the basin can be used to capture rainfall and prevent flooding further down the stream. I passed by the basin a few days ago and it wasn't full.

The only area in southern California that I've heard of any real problems is Montecito (close to Santa Barbara) where they've had some flooding and debris flows. You may know of Montecito because of the celebrities who live there, such as Oprah, Ellen DeGeneres, and recently Megan Markel and Prince Harry.

We have our threats, especially earthquakes, but overall, coastal California is a wonderful place. The population is diverse and there's a significant percentage of highly educated people. The weather is very nice most of the year, neither too hot nor too cool. But within a day's ride, you can go from surfing to snow skiing.

I came here for the first time in 1968, after I graduated college and fell in love with the place. Unfortunately, I wound up being drafted but eventually got back here and will live out the rest of my days here in paradise.

Mike

[Bob Borzelleri]

Smart thermostats can be a two edged sword. We have 2 HVAC systems in our house. I swapped out the “dumb” thermostats for two Nests several years ago.

I started by setting specific times/set points and then let the thermostat do its thing by noting where we were in the house, coming and going and, of course, wetting its thumb and sticking it up in the air. The result was that the Nest(s) tweaked themselves to their satisfaction; us, not so much. I reset them and told them to stop playing around.

Last year, we replaced one of the systems with a Lennox gas heater AC unit. After 19 years, one of them rolled over and died. The Lennox came with a sophisticated thermostat that took about 3 months to settle down, but it is now doing what I want it to do. Only problem is a very hit and miss geo fencing feature. It detects our returning home about 75% of the time. The other system is still on the Nest and geo fencing has worked without a flaw.

We now have smart switches (including the espresso machine), lights, locks and the 240 ceiling heater in the shop is on a smart thermostat. It is nice to use my phone or Alexa to turn the heater on 1/2 hour before I go out and into what is sometimes a mid 30s F environment.

[Alex Zeller]

I have a policy. Once I install an app I turn off automatic updates. Far too many times after updates I find the app no longer works on my phone or they change something and make the app worse. Somethings you have no choice about and somethings just stop working. But I often find that outdated apps work just fine. I think Android pressures app designers to drop support for older versions to pressure people into updating to the latest version of Android. Of course that usually means a new phone. I get that some people can't help but buy a new one each year but I just upgraded from a Note Edge (10 years old) to a Pixel 6 Pro that I never would have done except that I wanted some new apps that I couldn't run.

As for wanting "dumb" things, I use to think that way. But some of the "smart" stuff is actually worth the upgrade. I have several smart bulbs for example. I can turn them on from the bottom of my driveway or halfway around the world. Before that I had a light switch made by Liftmaster that could be turned on when the remote was close enough. It worked but by the time I was in range it wasn't worth it. I don't have much of a use for a smart thermo as my main source of heat is a woodstove with an endless supply of wood.

[Jim Becker]

Alex, sometimes there may be efforts to push folks toward newer devices but that's not just Google/Android, but also the device manufacturers. OTOH, the continual need to update the OS for security, etc., invariably closes off some system APIs that app vendors might have used...sometimes those APIs were published for use, but sometimes they were "discovered" things by the app manufacturer which is risky. It's pretty complex all around for maintaining any kind of app on any OS over long periods of time simply because change has to happen to keep the "bad actors" from, um...acting...

[Greg Parrish]

We have the sister version of the same app under the Bryant branding and ours recently went through the same update. I hardly ever use it but one thing that drives me crazy is that if another person sets up the app, it kicks the prior person out. For example, if I have it working on my phone and then my wife installs and sets it up on her phone, mine no longer works. I’ve relegated the control to her phone and just use the manual screen entry on the thermostat itself as my work around.


Carrier just did the same thing to my smart thermostat. The product came with an app called "My Infinity". The app screens looked and worked just looked the thermostat screens and had pretty much the same features. The thermostat works fine, but they decided that the original app (My Infinity) was too hard to operate for someone??? They came out with a new app called, Carrier Home, that has fewer features but is easy to operate...all it lets you do is change the temperature or mode!!! It worked on my android phone and android tablet. Then a week or so back, they updated the Carrier Home app and it will no longer run on my android Tablet. They haven't added any functionality, yet, but I can't use my tablet any more. I contacted the software group responsible and they told me they are working on new features and that is why they made the change. I can still use my phone and eventually they will add back some of the features they eliminated when they changed from My Infinity to Carrier Home and yes at some undetermined date down the road they will once again make it so it will run on a tablet running Android.

Fortunately the My Infinity app continues to work on both my phone and tablet and has all the features that I would ever want.

[Jim Becker]

Greg, can you both not use the same login credentials for the app on multiple devices? All of the "smart thing" apps I have work on both my device and Professor Dr SWMBO's device. (iPhones in our case)

[Bill Dufour]

We have the sister version of the same app under the Bryant branding and ours recently went through the same update. I hardly ever use it but one thing that drives me crazy is that if another person sets up the app, it kicks the prior person out. For example, if I have it working on my phone and then my wife installs and sets it up on her phone, mine no longer works. I’ve relegated the control to her phone and just use the manual screen entry on the thermostat itself as my work around.
That is the way the sensi branded ap worked. Only one registered phone. I will see if my wifes phone can connect to the new improved ap or not.
The thermostat came with the house and no documentation. We owned the house for two months before we had wifi working there.
Bill D

[Grant Wilkinson]

I hope that this does not take things too far off topic, but I wanted to add my experience. I've had a Nest learning thermostat for several years. I set all the fancy features to off. It does not track when I'm home, for example. I do not use their app. When I am on vacation, I monitor it from the web browser. What can I say? I'm a luddite. Recently, we noticed that the set temp was lower than we wanted. I went onto the browser and saw that my schedule was fine. I called Nest/Google. (Note: When I bought this, the omnipresent and omnipotent Google did not own Nest.). The very nice lady at Nest told me that twice a year, they will send me an email asking my permission to muck with my settings. (I've never received such an email, despite her assurances.) If I do not reply, or do not say No, they will do it anyway. No choice. We are GOOGLE. We know more about you than you know about you. The only way to stop this is to take the thermostat off my wifi network. That way, Google cannot see it. Of course, neither can I.

As someone else here, I recently replaced my old Carrier furnace with a shiny new Lennox one. I kept my Carrier AC. On advice from the installer, I upgraded my Nest to a new M30 Lennox thermostat. Pricey little bugger, it was. Well, after a month of service calls, it turned out the the M30 would not play nice with my AC. So, I had to remove the M30 and put the Nest back. No refund on the M30. Lennox will not even talk to consumers. Their position is that the "customer" is the installer and I don't exist.

Rant mode off.

[Ron Citerone]

My daughter bought a house 4 years ago. One of the heat pumps died before settlement and the owner replaced it before the sale. After 6 or more failures, waiting for parts, replacing parts (All warranty luckily), 6 months later they replaced the fancy thermostat with a basic one. The unit worked flawlessly since.

[Brian Elfert]

Knock on wood, but my Honeywell WI-FI thermostat has not caused any equipment failures. My HVAC equipment has not had a single failure in eight years and the WI-FI thermostat was installed about five years ago. I know a lot of HVAC techs absolutely hate Nest thermostats because they do strange things with the equipment.

[Marc Rochkind]

There are several websites that sell refurbished phones, and you do not need a SIM card (mobile service) to use them with WiFi. Get an old one in fair condition that's new enough to be supported for a few years. They're guaranteed, so if the phone stops working in a year you can get it swapped.