Need Advice on Friction Reduction for Jointer Beds

[Izzy Charo]

Hello, I have the SCM FS41e jointer/planer, and it's a great machine. However, I have noticed that there is a lot more friction when pushing wood on the jointer bed than I expected ... even with 6 or 8 inch wide boards. Wondering what folks use to reduce friction on jointers.... paste wax or some sort of spray on product, like Topcoat? Does anyone have experience with the Carbon Method product?
Thanks!
Izzy

[andy bessette]

Bostik TopCote.

[Mel Fulks]

May be that you are just pushing down too hard. The best old machines had tables made of Mechanite ,a special slick and stable iron .
Nothing wrong with products sold to make the wood move along , except the expense . I suggest using the products you mention for fine woods that will not be painted ,and using Wd40 , or similar for stuff that will be painted. Old timers often used kerosene.
Please, never use a cloth on a machine until it is at full STOP !

[glenn bradley]

I paste wax mine every year or so with good result.

[Lee Schierer]

I paste wax my jointer and planer whenever the friction seems high.

[Lisa Starr]

Paste wax on mine, twice a year. Dec 21st and June 21st as they're dates I can remember.

[William Hodge]

I face joint a lot of Sapele, and it can get sticky.
I use paraffin, and just scribble circles on the infeed and outfeed beds. The wax can be re-applied in seconds. Running wood smooths it out.

The other half of the equation is to use push pads, not bare hands. I like concrete finishing pads from Marshaltown, available at Home Depot.

[Robert Hazelwood]

+1 for paraffin. I think it makes the tables slicker than paste wax. I usually mix the paraffin with Boeshield for rust prevention. Boeshield on its own makes the tables kind of sticky IME, so first I scribble a bunch of paste wax then apply the Boeshield and wipe it all down hard. The Boeshield dissolves the paraffin to some degree and helps it spread in an even coat.

Then, if you are ever using the jointer and think there is too much friction, just scribble some paraffin on your feed path and you'll immediately notice an improvement.

[Andrew Hughes]

Is it the beds or is it a insert head? I had a jointer with carbide inserts the feed pressure was unacceptable. So I sold it.

[Bill Dufour]

I assume the folks saying paraffin mean solid petroleum wax not kerosene.
Bill D

[Keegan Shields]

Izzy,

I use paste wax and these (https://www.amazon.com/Microjig-Grr-Ripper-GB-1-Grr-Rip-Pushblock/dp/B00DNX3N7S/ref=asc_df_B00DNX3N7S/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309813767497&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12196872086878514748&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028295&hvtargid=pla-436122766233&psc=1) push blocks from micro jig. They have a little tab that drops down and hooks the trailing edge which helps reduce the needed downward pressure.

I have a Hammer A3-41 with insert head similar to your setup and face jointing a 12+ inch wide board is doable. The rougher table surface certainly doesn't help, but the insert head is the main issue if you keep the tables waxed.

Make sure you are taking a light pass with wide boards - the depth of cut can make a big difference.

Hope that helps.

[Bill Dufour]

The best old machines had tables made of Mechanite ,a special slick and stable iron .


I think you meant Meehannite? It is still being cast today. Nothing special just a controlled content and proper cool down procedures to reduce thermal stresses in the raw castings. Some Grizzly tools are cast Meehannite.
Pretty much any quality foundry has similar specs to Mehaanite. Today they take a molten test sample and analzise it before each pour. adding stuff as needed.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

In the past, I used wax on my machines including my FS350. I've switched to Boeshield because I have a much greater risk for surface rust here at our new property due to moisture conditions. I will tell you one thing, even with the way the wide machine's surface is ground, when a board gets flat, there is a suction effect that does make it harder to move. I agree with the mention of not pushing down too hard. Ideally, when jointing, one shouldn't be pushing down any more than is necessary to be able to move the board because you want to shave off the high spots. But when you are getting to "flat", there is a lot more contact with the metal and subsequently it takes a little more effort to move things along, even if wax or other materials are used to "lubricate" the machine surface.

[Curt Harms]

Paste wax seems to work for me. Izzy, you probably know this but I try to push down as little as possible on the infeed side of the table. Downforce on the outfeed table once there's enough to push down on. I use a push shoe - I prefer the push shoe to a push stick, it feels like I have better control. The push shoe has a little piece sticking down that hooks the work piece. That way most of the force exerted goes forward instead of down. Here's an example:

http://www.waterfront-woods.com/Articles/PushShoe.htm

[Michael Burnside]

Careful pushing down too hard on the outfeed as you’ll be turning the jointer into a planer and turning the board. Yes jointers get sticky and paste wax is a good idea, which I use too. You don’t need a lot of downward pressure, just enough to keep the board from kicking up at the cutter. Everything else is the jointers job. By the way this is in context of face jointing obviously.

[Mel Fulks]

Well, they are still making jointers that are not flat and have to be sent back ,or fixed locally.
This just in…..
I concede it’s been some years now since I’ve heard complaints. But I’m still mad about the botched ones !

[Michael Drew]

Izzy,

I use paste wax and these (https://www.amazon.com/Microjig-Grr-Ripper-GB-1-Grr-Rip-Pushblock/dp/B00DNX3N7S/ref=asc_df_B00DNX3N7S/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309813767497&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12196872086878514748&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028295&hvtargid=pla-436122766233&psc=1) push blocks from micro jig. They have a little tab that drops down and hooks the trailing edge which helps reduce the needed downward pressure.

I have a Hammer A3-41 with insert head similar to your setup and face jointing a 12+ inch wide board is doable. The rougher table surface certainly doesn't help, but the insert head is the main issue if you keep the tables waxed.

Make sure you are taking a light pass with wide boards - the depth of cut can make a big difference.

Hope that helps.

I also use those micro jig push blocks. They are also great to use on the router table for small parts. Can't say too many good things about the other products (too damn complex), but these are great.

[Phil Gaudio]

Izzy: I've been using this product for years: works well. Phil

493167

Here is link to buy slightly smaller quantity;

https://tooling.weinigusa.com/product-p/xxx100082.htm

[Izzy Charo]

Thanks to all! I suspect it's a combination of my pressing down too hard...and as pointed out above-- the cutterhead using carbide cutters. And appreciate all the information on the various options for reducing
the friction coefficient on the infeed/outfeed tables. It's great to have the benefit of the experience and expertise of this group!

[Andrew Hughes]

Insert heads do not cut wood like a knife head does. One comparison would be a tablesaw with a rip blade and negative rake cross cut blade on radial arm or miter saw.
I think a insert head is just plain wrong for a hand fed machine like a jointer. A jointer is just a big upside down hand plane.
Good Luck

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I paste wax mine every year or so with good result.

I do the same.

[Mark Hennebury]

Every once in a while I spray mine with paint thinner and lap it with a Japanese water stone or an oil stone, buff it off and wax it.

[Rich Markiewicz]

I use a little LPS-1, spray on a rag & wipe down the table.

[Alan Lightstone]

Izzy,

I use paste wax and these (https://www.amazon.com/Microjig-Grr-Ripper-GB-1-Grr-Rip-Pushblock/dp/B00DNX3N7S/ref=asc_df_B00DNX3N7S/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309813767497&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12196872086878514748&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028295&hvtargid=pla-436122766233&psc=1) push blocks from micro jig. They have a little tab that drops down and hooks the trailing edge which helps reduce the needed downward pressure.



+1. Exactly how I do it. Or often CRC-36 for rust prevention.

[glenn bradley]

Is it the beds or is it a insert head? I had a jointer with carbide inserts the feed pressure was unacceptable. So I sold it.

Sounds like it was time to rotate the cutters. Mine feeds like buttah.


I assume the folks saying paraffin mean solid petroleum wax not kerosene.
Bill D

I use Gulf Wax household paraffin available at most grocery stores for my plane soles. I think this is what they are talking about.

[John Kananis]

Tomato, tomatoh...I can't see myself going back to a straight knife cutterhead. I see what you mean about a "little" more effort but I don't find it to be overwhelming.

I also use paraffin wax btw.


Insert heads do not cut wood like a knife head does. One comparison would be a tablesaw with a rip blade and negative rake cross cut blade on radial arm or miter saw.
I think a insert head is just plain wrong for a hand fed machine like a jointer. A jointer is just a big upside down hand plane.
Good Luck

[Randall J Cox]

+2 for paraffin. I keep all cast iron surfaces coated with Johnson's floor paste wax and then while jointing, I do some swirls with paraffin sticks. These are the ones sold for canning. Makes a world of difference. Randy

[Bill Dufour]

Sounds like it was time to rotate the cutters. Mine feeds like buttah.



I use Gulf Wax household paraffin available at most grocery stores for my plane soles. I think this is what they are talking about.

I mentioned it for British readers who call kerosene paraffin. I believe kerosene was a USA trademark for the liquid. I think most of the world calls the liquid paraffin. What do they say in Canada?
Bill D

[Scott T Smith]

In a production environment, we frequently have to treat the jointer/planer beds multiple times a day. I used to use Bostick products, but a couple of years ago switched to DuPont Waxed based chain lubricant upon the advice of a well respected craftsman on the west coast.

Much less costly than Bostic products, and just as effective. No issues with damaging finishes either.

https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Chain-Saver-Self-Cleaning-Lubricant-14-Ounce/dp/B00D3G6FD4/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=GZAXY3TY212O&keywords=dupont%2Bchain%2Bsaver&qid=1673714449&sprefix=dupont%2Bchain%2Bsaver%2Caps%2C1196&sr=8-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExWFdURkRCUEI0Vk9UJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjE0NDA0MUdKSUM2NlhCOFlYWiZlbmN yeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTI1MzAzMU1LR0lESkIxSU5RTiZ3aWRnZ XROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05 vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1&psc=1

[Michael Drew]

Where do you all find Johnson's paste wax? I see it mentioned quite often for use on cast iron machines, so when I think about it, I look for it. But I have yet to find it anywhere in my neck of the woods. I can't order it either, unless I pay through the nose to have it shipped FedEx or UPS Air. UPSP will not ship it. I've looked for it at local hardware stores, the big orange and blue stores, auto parts stores and grocery.

[Bill Dufour]

Where do you all find Johnson's paste wax? I see it mentioned quite often for use on cast iron machines, so when I think about it, I look for it. But I have yet to find it anywhere in my neck of the woods. I can't order it either, unless I pay through the nose to have it shipped FedEx or UPS Air. UPSP will not ship it. I've looked for it at local hardware stores, the big orange and blue stores, auto parts stores and grocery.
I believe it is no longer made.
Bill D

[Bob Borzelleri]

Paste wax on mine, twice a year. Dec 21st and June 21st as they're dates I can remember.

I can remember October 1st and November 7th.