Question on sizing the Monticello bookcase boxes

[Tony Wilkins]

About to build the Monticello bookcase. The one made of stacking boxes. The one from the June 2011 Popular Woodworking.

Schwarz says he used his guess at the sizing from book sizing at the time. I read in a blog at Benchcrafted that Jameel resized them but couldn’t find what he used. The lumber I bought a little larger so I can adjust it if need be.

anyone built it and can comment on the sizing? Anyone in general have suggestions?

for reference, the boxes start at the bottom with 13x18, middle being 6.75x12, and top being 5.75x10.

[Edward Weber]

I always try to use the original source
https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/book-boxes/
I don't know if the info you're looking for is in here, if not, you could contact them and ask.

[Tony Wilkins]

Thanks for the info. Interesting but not exactly what I was looking for. I have the original measurements. My question is: do I need to adjust for the sizes of modern books compared to the 18th century standard sizes these measurements were based on (especially the top two/smaller sized boxes)?

[Jim Koepke]

Roy Underhill made these in season 30 episode 8 > https://www.pbs.org/video/the-woodwrights-shop-the-case-for-books/

Are you building these for yourself?

If so, size them to the books that need shelves.

If you are building these to sell you might make a few different sizes for large books on the bottom and make them smaller near the top.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

Roy Underhill made these in season 30 episode 8 > https://www.pbs.org/video/the-woodwrights-shop-the-case-for-books/

Are you building these for yourself?

If so, size them to the books that need shelves.

If you are building these to sale you might make a few different sizes for large books on the bottom and make them smaller near the top.

jtk

They’re for me, well my wife. As far as fir the books, we have them stacked all over and the cases we have are two layers deep plus. Here’s the case in our den…
493126

I’m building the original though I did consider the one’s Roy builds in that episode.

[Mel Fulks]

octos , quartos , folios ,are the sizes, possibly modern’s have changed the old standard sizes of them .

[Thomas Crawford]

I would just size them to the books you want to put on them. Aesthetically I think you would just want to keep the ratios similar between the boxes.

[Jim Koepke]

They’re for me, well my wife. As far as fir the books, we have them stacked all over and the cases we have are two layers deep plus. Here’s the case in our den…
493126

I’m building the original though I did consider the one’s Roy builds in that episode.

Oops, my error, I thought the Woodwright's cases were the same thing.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

octos , quartos , folios ,are the sizes, possibly modern’s have changed the old standard sizes of them .
Tried do to do a little google searching on the subject. It seems as though there are some books that keep to those but there is also a lot more variability. It’s hard to tell what I’ll need. Plan on measuring a few of the books around the house but not sure how to ‘split the difference’ on them.

[Tony Wilkins]

Oops, my error, I thought the Woodwright's cases were the same thing.

jtk
He starts with the ‘bee box’ idea and moves on to something a bit more modular.

[Mel Fulks]

Oh yeah, today’s books are not as standardized, but with the exception of some of the 2-foot-tall Kid’s books you will find the old standard is
still a base . One good way of protecting books and getting a military -like uniform look , is to install a cloth “curtain” 2or 3 inches tall on the bottom edge of each shelf. And it protects the books from dust.
-

[Mel Fulks]

I’ve been googling for the dust covers I suggested ,can’t find a thing about them ! I know I have photos of them. Lot of good practical
things are just falling off this flat Earth !

[Mel Fulks]

Thomas Crawford, you did a pretty good job on that Capitol dome ! If Tony won’t take your advice …it’s over !

[Tony Wilkins]

Checked and our books seem to work well with the dimensions from the article. Guess they haven’t strayed too much from the 19th century dimensions for the most part. Still, looking at the 4 full height cases in our house that are all double layered and then some, I wouldn’t guarantee that isn’t an odd ball here or there.

[Thomas Crawford]

Thomas Crawford, you did a pretty good job on that Capitol dome ! If Tony won’t take your advice …it’s over !

Ha, I didn't even know that until you posted, thanks

[Thomas Crawford]

Checked and our books seem to work well with the dimensions from the article. Guess they haven’t strayed too much from the 19th century dimensions for the most part. Still, looking at the 4 full height cases in our house that are all double layered and then some, I wouldn’t guarantee that isn’t an odd ball here or there.

I found a copy of the article that I had saved a few years ago. The wife just put "more bookcases" at the top of my build list and I might give these a go. I'm thinking the middle set can be a little deeper without messing with the look too much. Depends on how much of a shelf you want. In our case it will probably just accumulate more books.

[Tony Wilkins]

I found a copy of the article that I had saved a few years ago. The wife just put "more bookcases" at the top of my build list and I might give these a go. I'm thinking the middle set can be a little deeper without messing with the look too much. Depends on how much of a shelf you want. In our case it will probably just accumulate more books.
My wife noticed today and liked that ‘shelf’. :)

[Jim McCue]

In one of Chris Schwarz books he has bookcase plans and discusses the sizes of books and spacings of shelves.

Found an excerpt on his blog:
https://blog.lostartpress.com/2016/12/15/boarded-bookshelf/

[Tony Wilkins]

Thanks. I have that book and had thought about looking but hadn’t done it yet. The heights are very similar to the Monticello plans.

[Tom M King]

Whatever size you make them, something won't be right, and you'll have to lay some books on their sides. Just a universal law of bookcases.

[Jake Rothermel]

For what it's worth: I'm building built-ins for our house soon and so I've gone on a rampage measuring every book my family owns and researching publisher sizes. In our house, we have everything from antique bindings, to children's books, to paperback novels, to coffee table books. I can't claim we have EVERY type & size of bound book out there, of course, but we've quite a range and it seems like anything smaller than 17th century "folio" sizes (15" or taller) will be an issue.

Your mileage may vary, of course, but the tallest I'm making my built-ins is 13" tall x 12" deep. The tiny handful of taller books can just get laid on their sides and I don't believe anything will protrude past the edge of a shelf more than perhaps a half an inch if at all.

Good luck with your build!

-jake

[Richard Verwoest]

I built the bookcase a few years back. My favorite project to date. The size, history, dovetails and the use of a moulding plane, and all the hand beading on the back slats. I used Alder and finished with super blonde shellac.....I don't recall but I think I resized the mid-range boxes a little. But I kept the proportions the same, so when looking from the end, all the dovetails mirrored each other. If I recall, my biggest book is the Rubio Book of Plates. And the smallest would most likely be one of the "pocket" books from LAP. There are a few different was to cut the mitred dovetail on the front. Like the way described in the article, and a recent description here on the creek.

[Tony Wilkins]

I built the bookcase a few years back. My favorite project to date. The size, history, dovetails and the use of a moulding plane, and all the hand beading on the back slats. I used Alder and finished with super blonde shellac.....I don't recall but I think I resized the mid-range boxes a little. But I kept the proportions the same, so when looking from the end, all the dovetails mirrored each other. If I recall, my biggest book is the Rubio Book of Plates. And the smallest would most likely be one of the "pocket" books from LAP. There are a few different was to cut the mitred dovetail on the front. Like the way described in the article, and a recent description here on the creek.
Glad to hear it’s an enjoyable project. I still haven’t decided on the mitered edge dovetails but leaning towards doing them. Best video I found so far was Rob Cosman’s on it.

[Mark Maleski]

Whatever size you make them, something won't be right, and you'll have to lay some books on their sides. Just a universal law of bookcases.

IIRC some larger/thicker books are best stored lying down. When upright, the weight of the pages stresses the binding. I have a bunch of books that I store this way on purpose for that reason.

FWIW, I’ve just started building bookcases with some ideas from that PW article. Have been reaching many of the same conclusions as the OP, but glad to see this post.