What is causing this with Epoxy Pour?

[Alan Lightstone]

First time I'm trying to do an epoxy pour. It's for a cutting board for my doctor. BTW, nice thing to do to give your family practice doctor a little present. Just sayin...

Anyway, back to the issue. I poured a test piece of epoxy with dye, using blue, but adding some additional white dye in epoxy for a swirl. When I finished pouring, the swirl looked nice. Wish I had taken a picture of it to show the before.

But over the first 24 hours, this is what happened to it:
492774

Any ideas why this happened? What happened to the swirls?

[Ed Mitchell]

I don't understand what the problem is. The picture seems to show a swirly pour. I suppose the "before" pic, where you said things were much different, would be great. Do you have more details?

[mike calabrese]

Check this guy out he is pretty good when it comes to epoxy stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksB4A-b308A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHmRrIodAcU
calabrese55

[Richard Verwoest]

Your dye/pigment is settling during the curing process. You need to either use a faster curing epoxy or keep an eye on it and swirl as needed until it sets enough that it does not settle. This is a bit more difficult with 2 different colors because as you swirl, you just wind up mixing the 2 together.

[Alan Lightstone]

I don't understand what the problem is. The picture seems to show a swirly pour. I suppose the "before" pic, where you said things were much different, would be great. Do you have more details?
Yes, a before picture would have been invaluable. What it initially looked like was some wave like white swirls in the blue.

[Alan Lightstone]

Your dye/pigment is settling during the curing process. You need to either use a faster curing epoxy or keep an eye on it and swirl as needed until it sets enough that it does not settle. This is a bit more difficult with 2 different colors because as you swirl, you just wind up mixing the 2 together.
I'm using epoxy that sets in about 48 hours, which is what I was seeing being used online.

[Mike Hoyt]

For sure you swirled a bit too soon. I had the same thin happen the first time I did deep pour. It is much slower setting than some of the others. The time at which to swirl is going to be different from brand to brand but if you wait to swirl until it has set to the consistency of peanut butter or a pudding it will stay put.

[Robert Hayward]

I'm using epoxy that sets in about 48 hours, which is what I was seeing being used online.
That is most likely your problem. Try using one of the casting resins instead. Most of these take an initial set in minutes.

[Alan Lightstone]

Check this guy out he is pretty good when it comes to epoxy stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksB4A-b308A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHmRrIodAcU
calabrese55
Interesting. Never heard of waiting till the epoxy was warm/hot to mix. He was recommending 140F.

The instructions for my epoxy just talk about mixing, then pouring. Of course, they don't talk about dye powders.

FWIW, I'm using FGCI Superclear 2.0 Liquid Glass Epoxy.

[Alan Lightstone]

That is most likely your problem. Try using one of the casting resins instead. Most of these take an initial set in minutes.
What is the difference?

[Ed Mitchell]

Yes, a before picture would have been invaluable. What it initially looked like was some wave like white swirls in the blue.

With what little info we have, I'm inclined to agree with Richard V, above. It could easily be a simple case of settling, and as Richard noted, continuing to mix is your enemy, you'll just end up with a blend, and lose all the critical distinction and definition.

Assuming that's the case, his recommendation of a faster curing epoxy is a good one (or at least an epoxy which accepts an accelerant to speed the cure). Time is the enemy of complex abstracts and swirls in epoxy, you need to be able to achieve the desired state and then have the epoxy cure as soon thereafter as possible. UV cure epoxies are often used industrially for this purpose, as they can generate very predictable results in the shortest time frames.

There are also other resins (polyester being the most well-known for excellent visual results, casting resin being the most common these days) you could look into, but that's a serious rabbit hole. With other resins you'll have very different physical properties, and perhaps additional safety concerns.

[Christopher Stahl]

Looks like the exothermic reaction of the epoxy. It will start forming patterns as gasses are released. Usually want to come back and make a pattern before it starts setting.

[Jim Tobias]

The key is to let the initial pour color heat up (curing process) and get close enough to curing that when you add the swirl color, it won't have time to blend before curing. To be accurate with this (because different resins cure at different speeds), it's best to use a digital infrared thermometer like this.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0873T6SGR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Alan Lightstone]

The key is to let the initial pour color heat up (curing process) and get close enough to curing that when you add the swirl color, it won't have time to blend before curing. To be accurate with this (because different resins cure at different speeds), it's best to use a digital infrared thermometer like this.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0873T6SGR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I watched that Youtube video above, and waited for my epoxy to reach 140 degrees. (I was using a digital thermometer for it, and was hoping for about 30-45 minutes to reach that peanut butter texture, or 140 degrees.) Well, 3 hours later, it was still at about 90 degrees. It just is too slow curing epoxy. Gave up, poured it, and went to sleep. Not to finished product I was looking for.

Any suggestions for other brands? Obviously threw out money on this one, went for the Amazon special.

[William Hodge]

It sounds like you found some food safe epoxy good for getting cut while cooking. What brand is it?

[Alan Lightstone]

It sounds like you found some food safe epoxy good for getting cut while cooking. What brand is it?
It's FGCI (Fiber Glass Coating Inc) SuperClear 2.0 Liquid Glass 2"-4" Thick pour Epoxy
492952

I made a second test piece, waiting about 12 hours (ah, the need to sleep). The epoxy was really too thick at this point, but I swirled some in. Bubbles that would go away became an issue with this one, and way too much bronze, but the effect was getting somewhat better.

492953

So it seems that the time needed is between 3 and 12 hours. Way too long.

I really need an epoxy with that roughly 30-45 min time frame, like in the video. Any suggestions?

[Alan Lightstone]

Ok. Now I'm even more confused.

I took the test piece out of the mold, and this is what it looked like:
This is the top:
492958

This is the side:
492959

And this is the bottom:
492960

So it appears that when I mixed the bronze and white to the green, they settled due to their weight with the white settling to the bottom, the majority green in the middle, and the bronze at the top.

Totally confused now. Never seen this online in any demo.

[Jim Tobias]

Alan,
I do not claim to be an expert in this but do a fair number of pours. Having said that, I use mostly Alumilite Deep Pour (once in awhile Total Boat). I have found their videos and online help to be very good. I also have called and asked questions. My guess is that any deep pour is going to be a Sloooooow cure and thus will take a looooong time to reach the best temp to add a streak color.
As to your settling issue in the pictures, I'm not sure. I've had powder dyes/colors sink some occasionally when mixed in with liquid dyes or alcohol inks. Maybe more mixing time to better dissolve the powder??
My last comment is that regardless of what product brand you choose, I think there is a learning curve with the idiosyncrasies of a given brand and type (deep pour, quick coat, clear slow, etc.). It is a learning curve that you dive into when you start using resins/epoxies......and it never ends!!!!

Jim

[Charles Lent]

You want to make a "Cutting BOARD". So what are you planning to do with these pieces of epoxy? Cut them up and make pieces to fit between pieces of wood in the board? If that is your plan (to cut them up into small pieces) I think you already have some interesting pieces to work with. Epoxy alone as a cutting surface does not work all that well. Tiny knife slits in the surface of epoxy will show in time, where they don't in end grain hardwoods.

Charley

[Robert Hayward]

Alumilite is my preferred brand also. They have numerous how to videos online. Also a support number you can call and talk to a real person, or at least used to. Been a while since I needed to talk to support.

[Alan Lightstone]

You want to make a "Cutting BOARD". So what are you planning to do with these pieces of epoxy? Cut them up and make pieces to fit between pieces of wood in the board? If that is your plan (to cut them up into small pieces) I think you already have some interesting pieces to work with. Epoxy alone as a cutting surface does not work all that well. Tiny knife slits in the surface of epoxy will show in time, where they don't in end grain hardwoods.
Charley
It will be a river cutting board as a present for my family doctor. My hunch is that she'll just use it for decoration (like lots of people do with those beautiful face grain cutting boards that we make for them... Sigh...)
Total surprise for her, and clearly missed the holidays, but that won't matter.

Something like this:
493011

[Alan Lightstone]

Alumilite is my preferred brand also. They have numerous how to videos online. Also a support number you can call and talk to a real person, or at least used to. Been a while since I needed to talk to support.
Probably my next chore is to call them and then purchase.

I hate wasting that large bottle of epoxy I bought, but oh well.

[Alan Lightstone]

Well, I found some interesting information searching Youtube.

There's a number of videos from Blacktail Studio where he uses the same FGCI (Fiber Glass Coating Inc) SuperClear 2.0 Liquid Glass 2"-4" Thick pour Epoxy that I've been trying. He does announce that he's now an ambassador for the brand, so just going to throw out that caveat.

He uses this epoxy for all his river tables. The important fact is that he doesn't start to swirl his epoxy for 12 hours. And lightly continues every 30 minutes for up to about 16 hours. And he suggests never letting the epoxy get above 120°F. So a totally different beast to work with than the Alumite. Really don't think I have the patience for that long a time.

So I ordered some Alumilite deep pour. I'll work with that, and hopefully get this to work. And boy this became an expensive project/gift. Hope she likes it.

Here's the last test I did, waiting only about 12 hours:

Top:
493193

Bottom:
493194

So still too much settling, and color differential, but better.
This stuff just isn't easy to work with. At least in my hands.

Now on to the Alumilite in a few days. Hopefully with better results.

[Richard Verwoest]

Why do you keep getting deep pour epoxies? Seems like overkill for a river poured cutting board. Deep pour epoxy usually always has a long set time. There is a lot of heat generated. I think using Total Boat or MAS epoxy will get you the results you are looking for. And as with just about everyone else, no one shows you all the trials and tribulations they went through to get the results they were looking for.

[Alan Lightstone]

Why do you keep getting deep pour epoxies? Seems like overkill for a river poured cutting board. Deep pour epoxy usually always has a long set time. There is a lot of heat generated. I think using Total Boat or MAS epoxy will get you the results you are looking for. And as with just about everyone else, no one shows you all the trials and tribulations they went through to get the results they were looking for.
Presently the wood I am using is pretty deep. About 1-1/2" (though it will get planed/sanded down to about 1 or 1-1/4", so that's why I took this route. Could have been a big mistake. We'll see if the Alumilite does better.

The deep pour epoxy I have been using generates very little heat, which I find interesting.

[Ronald Blue]

For clarification purposes I take it you are desiring the color to be uniform all the way through so it looks good from either side? I haven't actually done a river table or anything similar. I did go to a seminar with Jess Crow and it was very informative. She is in partnership with Total Boat. You can also search for her website which has hundreds of unique projects she has completed. Hope you get it figured out.

https://www.totalboat.com/product/jess-crow-makerpoxy/

[Alan Lightstone]

Yes, since it's a cutting board, I would like the bottom to look good too. It doesn't have to be the same pattern, but it can't look like clumps of color either. I will put rubber legs on it, so the top will be the one used, and hopefully look good.

[Tom Bender]

One of your struggles is getting both sides of the pour to look the same. You might try pouring half depth then after that's cured pour the other half.

Don't think of the cost of this one project, or even about spreading it over a number of projects. Think of the first costs as tuition.

[Alan Lightstone]

One of your struggles is getting both sides of the pour to look the same. You might try pouring half depth then after that's cured pour the other half.

Don't think of the cost of this one project, or even about spreading it over a number of projects. Think of the first costs as tuition.

I'm seriously thinking about two pours. Makes sense, although I'm still not sure the bottom pour will look good, but that's my new game plan.

I love your quote about the first costs being tuition. Gonna remember that one.

[Jim Tobias]

Alan,
This might be helpful. It is mainly talking about Amazing Clear Cast but principals are the same.

https://youtu.be/_xXxpFOtz5Y

[George Yetka]

Definitely settling

[Alan Lightstone]

So I finished this, and gave the gift. To say the least I learned 1000 ways not to do this. The finished product is OK. She loved it, which is the important part. I wish I could have done better. Oh well.

Here it is:
495692