A Couple of Questions

[James Baldwin]

Ok, I ordered a Robert Sobly fingernail spindle gouge kind of by mistake I thought I was ordering a fingernail bowl gouge. The spindle gouge was $65 with the handle and the bowl gouge is $85 without a handle (I use interchangeable aluminum handles) my question is should I regrind it to a fingernail bowl gouge or return it and get the fingernail bowl gouge or keep it and get the bowl gouge too?
The other question that I have is I have a bunch of Supernova chucks. The question is do they make a set of jaws that will work with an external spigot for bowl turning? Al mine seem to be for internal spigots and screw chucks. Thanks, Jim

[John Keeton]

Not quite responsive to your question, but I am not a fan of Sorby tools as I think they are overpriced for the quality of steel. I would buy either a Thompson bowl gouge (V10 cpm) or D-Way (M42 colbalt cpm) and just return the Sorby spindle gouge.

[Jim Morgan]

I'm not sure what you mean by "spigot," but all of the jaws I have for my Nova chucks will either expand into a dovetailed recess or contract around a tenon.

[Reed Gray]

I agree with John about the Sorby tools. My preference are the gouges from D Way and Thompson, and I can't really notice any actual cutting differences between the tools. As for your spindle gouge, I do have one or two, Thompson, that I ground to a ) shape for the nose and a 70 degree bevel angle. They are specialty tools that I use on bowls for going through the transition and across the bottom of the bowls. Other than that, I would return it.

As for your chuck, they all have many different chuck jaws to go with the different chucks, and the Nova ones, I think, are interchangeable between their different chucks. Most turners have multiple chucks. As for tenon/spigot or recess, I use a recess, you want dove tail jaws as they do hold a bit better than straight jaws. I have a bunch of mostly bowl turning videos up on You Tube, including 'Mounting things on the lathe'.

robo hippy

[John Keeton]

James, the term “spigot” when used in this context is synonymous with “tenon” - a projection from the bottom of a piece on to which chuck jaws clamp with compression. A “recess” is a “hole” in the the bottom into which chuck jaws are used in expansion mode.

I use SN2 chucks and the standard 50mm jaws work well in a recess. I have a 2 1/16” bit that I sometimes use to drill a recess. I have used that method to turn large platters.

[Jim Morgan]

James, the term “spigot” when used in this context is synonymous with “tenon” - a projection from the bottom of a piece on to which chuck jaws clamp with compression. A “recess” is a “hole” in the the bottom into which chuck jaws are used in expansion mode.

Well, yeah, that's my understanding as well. But the OP referred to an "internal spigot." What the heck is that?

[James Baldwin]

When I run a search for the term for the different types of jaws the term spigot came up. It is dovetail and tenon. I've been using an internal dovetail on some of my bowls and an external tenon on some of the others. I had a couple of external tenons break but that was because the blank was cracked. I'll probably return the spindle gouge as I have others. I have Sobly, Hurricane, Benjamin's Best, Crown and Harbor Freight (which aren't that bad) plus some carbide which works good for the wood I currently have. Very hard and very dry. I'm not a connoisseur of tools. I just know what works for me. Jim

[John Keeton]

Well, yeah, that's my understanding as well. But the OP referred to an "internal spigot." What the heck is that?Jim, I guess I should have been more direct in my post - I was referencing the OP in that post, not you as we were both having a bit of difficulty understanding the terms being used.

[Neil Strong]

I'll probably return the spindle gouge as I have others.

Jim, if you already have several other spindle gouges you probably don't need another one. Other than the quality of the steel, IME there isn't a lot of difference between them.

But, your post prompts me to raise an observation about bowl and spindle gouges. Before deep fluted bowl gouges there were just gouges (in effect spindle gouges with varying degrees of shallow flute... spindle, detail, continental, etc.). Those did a good job on spindles and the outside of bowls, but not on the inside of bowls. When the deep fluted bowl gouges came along they were a significant improvement for turning the inside of bowls. There were hook tools before that, which could be used for inside turning, but being made of forged carbon steel they were more suited to green turning and struggled with seasoned hardwoods.

When the purpose made bowl gouges came into wide use the spindle gouges (except for some detail work around feet and rims) dropped out of use by bowl turners. Very few continued to use their spindle gouges to do the bulk of the wood removal from the outside of their blanks. However, with a swept back grind it is quite efficient at that. AND, as your OP pointed out, they are cheaper than bowl gouges.

This is probably a moot point for most turners who are never going to grind their bowl gouges away, especially with the less aggressive CBN wheels more widely used now. So, why not just use the bowl gouge on both the inside and outside of the bowl. It's one less gouge to pick up. With the enthusiasm for the Batty grind that is even more the case as you definitely needs a deep flute for that.

The other factor in all of this is that there are few production bowl tuners among us nowadays for whom saving a few dollars is important. I think there might be just a few who occasionally frequent this forum in which case, if they have not done so already, they might like to check out how Richard Raffan is still using a well used 1/2" spindle gouge for roughing down the outside of green bowl blanks in this recent video by him. The relevant segment of the video is just the next 90secs from the point where I have marked it to start...

https://youtu.be/6TTuRNtl7BQ?t=1166

[tom lucas]

Almost all of the Super Nova jaws can be used for both mortises and tenons. The standard 50 mm set that comes with all of the SN2's are all you need for small to mid-size turnings. Nova does make a variety of other jaws. All are pretty good. But, I would avoid the step jaws - largely useless IMO. The long nose jaws are nice, as are the pin jaws.

Thompson, D-Way, Carter & Son, or Crown M42 tools are the best choices for gouges. For something that gets re-sharpened often, like a scraper you can do almost as well with cheaper tools. I have several Sorby's I bought used in a set for $100. They work but don't hold an edge like the premiums do. I mostly use the parting tool, scraper, and a half inch bowl gouge I grind as a bottom feeder. The bottom feeder gets used on all bowls, but only just enough for the finishing cuts. So, that Sorby doesn't require a lot of sharpening.

[James Baldwin]

I have a bunch of chuck jaws. The last Supernova chuck I picked up was at an estate sale. Had three sets of jaws and cost me $8. Looks like I need to pay more attention to my external tenons and watch out for flaws in the blanks. Jim

[John K Jordan]

I’d keep it, especially if I didn’t have a spindle gouge. Or return it and buy a Thompson.

Famous and expert turner Richard Raffan makes good use of a spindle gouge when turning bowls in this video. He also demonstrates some useful work-holding techniques with large step jaws.


https://youtu.be/6TTuRNtl7BQ

I used several spindle gouges for shaping a tenon and for detail on a walnut bowl just a couple of days ago. A spindle gouge with a fingernail grind, especially with significantly swept back wings, can get into tighter places than a typical bowl gouge and is great for shear scraping.

Note that most spindle gouges have a shallower and differently shaped flute than most bowl gouges.

The jaws you get for turning anything depends many things including the size of the work, the grain orientation, the method of work, the work-holding methods you prefer, and to some extent the constraints of the design. The details can make for a long discussion and many opinions. I, for example, used the Nova 100mm jaws in both expansion and contraction modes for different operations on the walnut bowl. (All of the Teknatool jaws will work in both the expansion and contraction modes.)

One place to start is to download Teknatool’s guide on chuck jaws. It has tables of capacities of both tenon and recess modes for each jaw set.

I too am not sure what you mean be “internal spigot”.

JKJ


Ok, I ordered a Robert Sobly fingernail spindle gouge kind of by mistake I thought I was ordering a fingernail bowl gouge. The spindle gouge was $65 with the handle and the bowl gouge is $85 without a handle (I use interchangeable aluminum handles) my question is should I regrind it to a fingernail bowl gouge or return it and get the fingernail bowl gouge or keep it and get the bowl gouge too?
The other question that I have is I have a bunch of Supernova chucks. The question is do they make a set of jaws that will work with an external spigot for bowl turning? Al mine seem to be for internal spigots and screw chucks. Thanks, Jim

[tom lucas]

I have a bunch of chuck jaws. The last Supernova chuck I picked up was at an estate sale. Had three sets of jaws and cost me $8. Looks like I need to pay more attention to my external tenons and watch out for flaws in the blanks. Jim

If your tenons are breaking, perhaps you are using wood that is just to punky or has significant cracks. Both can be a safety hazard. Not worth the risk nor the wasted time. A mortise does work better with softer, punkier blanks. After wasting several hours on such pieces, I don't any more. Just throw them on the burn pile and select something more solid.

[Neil Strong]

... I would avoid the step jaws - largely useless IMO.



Perhaps not the jaws to start with, yet Richard Raffan (who designed the first step jaws for Vicmarc) prefers and uses them all the time. You don't see Richard measuring tenons very often. He visually turns the tenon to suit the piece and then uses whatever step on the jaws fits that. Production turners eliminate any unnecessary steps in the turning process. The step jaws allows Richard to eliminate measuring tenon sizes (although he can do that by eye anyway) and changing chucks/jaws.

If turners prefer to use tenons to hold pieces while hollowing out then the step jaws are an option that can save them from having to buy extra jaw sets and chucks. I don't have the Nova step jaws myself (nor VM's), so can't comment on any differences in design, but expect they would be very similar to VM's.




Thompson, D-Way, Carter & Son, or Crown M42 tools are the best choices for gouges.



All good choices.

I would add Woodcut and the Henry Taylor kryos to that list. Both M2 HSS, but both well made M2s. The bowl gouge designed by Lyle Jamieson that is made for him by Dough Thompson with V10 is another good choice.