joinery/carving bench

[Thomas Crawford]

Howdy everyone -

I'm going to be wading into carving and want to build a bench at the proper height. I have plenty of room and have been wanting to build a second, taller joinery bench for a while anyway. I have had a Roubo I built 15 years ago at this point that I've used for everything, with a portable moxon vise to clamp on top.

Height will be about elbow-ish (using Jim Tolpin's guide of of hand spans), and the size will be something like 20" x 42-48". I'll use SYP for the top and legs and use something pretty around the top dovetailed together and for the vise.

I would like to fit the following vises on it: Benchcrafted moxon and Benchcrafted tail vise. I know the moxon is basically a twin screw at this point. But I like the hardware. I'm going to keep it about 16" between the screws since I already have the one I can put on my Roubo that is 25" between.

One thing I'm stuck on is that I would like to make the top nice and thick to have the weight, but trying to figure out how to fit the moxon hardware into that. Basically everything I see has the top thin so that the screws go underneath it, which limits the top thickness to about 2-2.5". As I've looked at carving bench designs they are all thin topped and then there is usually a comment to add a shelf to weigh it down.

Is there any reason it wouldn't work to have a 5" thick top and clear out channels in it for the screws on the moxon? If I plan it right I think I should be able to just build it into the design as I do the laminated glue up so I'm not doing a ton of chopping after the top is done.

Any thoughts on this plan? Anyone else build something along these lines?

[Chuck Hill]

This may provide some ideas:
https://www.handtoolschool.net/products/joinery-bench/

[Thomas Crawford]

Yes that’s what they mostly look like, its a good design but I’m trying to get a thicker top.

[Reed Gray]

How big of a top do you need? Most hardwood stores will carry restaurant grade maple, beech, and other wood slabs, anywhere from 2 foot wide and up. You could take a 8 X 2 foot piece, cut it in half and glue up the sections, or more. As for height, If you already have a place in the shop where you do this, figure out what you would change, and why.

robo hippy

[Ben Ellenberger]

To your question: if I was going to build a Moxon vise into a thick bench top, I would probably do what you are proposing. Leave the last lamination off, cut relief for the screws, then laminate the face piece on. I haven’t built one, but your plan makes sense to me.

[Thomas Crawford]

Thanks Ben, also heard from the Benchcrafted guys and I have a plan. I'll start a build thread later after I get the lumber and let it sit in the shop. Hopefully I can find some dry-ish SYP at the home center.

[Tom Bussey]

This is how I did it. I buried the nuts in the table and then I glued another piece on trapping the nut. The wood will cause the nut to rust over time which won't effect you in your life time but I painted my nuts for more protection.



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Pictures are from 2 different bench builds. This picture shows the back of the vise jaw being clamped by the nut then the front jaw put on.

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[Tom Bussey]

I responded to this post because I like building workbenches and I have built 3 this way with the nuts buried. I would have responded anyway, but I do have a set of moxon hardware tor sale in the classified portion of this forum

[Christopher Charles]

Hi Thomas,

I also have a Roubo with a BC tail vise and Moxon (with Tom's hardware, which is excellent). I have dim plans to build a joinery bench like you describe but would not use the BC tail vise hardware because a wagon vise is limited. Rather, I'd use the LN tail vise if i was going to have a tail vise or more likely try to add a pattern makers vise. Not sure I'd be able to scrape up the coin for a good pattern makers vise though... in which case I'd simply have the face be a Moxon style twin screw front.

Shannon Rogers has a good design for a joinery bench that you might check out if you haven't already.

Will look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Best,
Chris

[Reed Gray]

I have thought several times about making a good bench. After pondering it a while, it would end up being a project that would take years, and I wanted it right away, so I bought one. I will make another one or two for my shop, more for lay out and assembly work, and will probably do them myself since they need to fit into certain spaces rather than being able to find a generic type of one that would fit. Those laminated maple and beech restaurant grade tops are really nice.

robo hippy

[Tony Wilkins]

Hi Thomas,

I also have a Roubo with a BC tail vise and Moxon (with Tom's hardware, which is excellent). I have dim plans to build a joinery bench like you describe but would not use the BC tail vise hardware because a wagon vise is limited. Rather, I'd use the LN tail vise if i was going to have a tail vise or more likely try to add a pattern makers vise. Not sure I'd be able to scrape up the coin for a good pattern makers vise though... in which case I'd simply have the face be a Moxon style twin screw front.

Shannon Rogers has a good design for a joinery bench that you might check out if you haven't already.

Will look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Best,
Chris
I was thinking about Shannon’s (Renaissance Woodworker on YouTube) and was going to mention it too. Seems like a HiVise would be a worthwhile idea for carving (though I’ve never used it or done carving :rolls eyes:)

[roger wiegand]

For a lot of carving (especially flat work) hold-downs are more useful than side-acting vises. For more three dimensional work a vise that spins and rotates is very useful -- I don't have one, but an Emmert seems pretty ideal for getting the workpiece to where you can work on it. I'm very early on in my carving work, but have found that a bench much taller than I would have expected is much more comfortable to work at. I'd suggest that rather than using a "rule of thumb" to determine your height you take and existing bench and block it up to your projected height and then try that and an inch or two higher or lower for a few 3-4 hour carving sessions. Your back will tell you which is best! Another way to go is to make your leg heights adjustable. I find I want my carving bench a lot higher than the general joinery bench.

[Thomas Crawford]

Thanks for the replies. I ordered both Moxon and tail vise from BC. I don't currently have a tail vise but have been wanting one in any case. I probably won't install it on the joinery bench right away.

I'm contemplating rebuilding my Roubo at the same time, and repurposing part of the top of the existing one as the top for the joinery bench. Trying to decide if I want to do that much bench building at once. My current Roubo has some defects that I'd like to rectify. But the middle of the top is perfect for the other bench.

My current Roubo is 33 1/2" tall and is perfect. I am thinking 42" for the joinery bench at this point.

[Thomas Crawford]

I went ahead and knocked together a bench-on-bench this weekend. I didn't put quite enough thought into it as I didn't really leave enough space for dogholes. I attached the bottom with lag bolts so I'll probably narrow it a bit so I can get a hole near the edge. It finished out 24" wide by 19" deep. I put a little tool rack in the back for the carving tools. Just used Dominos for the joinery for speed.

Work height ends up about 42" which is seeming about right, maybe 1.5-2" below my elbow. I'll use this for a few practice carvings before I settle on the height of the final joinery bench.

Enjoy my crude Mary May donut, my first carving.


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[Mark Salomon]

Howdy everyone -

I'm going to be wading into carving and want to build a bench at the proper height. I have plenty of room and have been wanting to build a second, taller joinery bench for a while anyway. I have had a Roubo I built 15 years ago at this point that I've used for everything, with a portable moxon vise to clamp on top.

Height will be about elbow-ish (using Jim Tolpin's guide of of hand spans), and the size will be something like 20" x 42-48". I'll use SYP for the top and legs and use something pretty around the top dovetailed together and for the vise.

I would like to fit the following vises on it: Benchcrafted moxon and Benchcrafted tail vise. I know the moxon is basically a twin screw at this point. But I like the hardware. I'm going to keep it about 16" between the screws since I already have the one I can put on my Roubo that is 25" between.

One thing I'm stuck on is that I would like to make the top nice and thick to have the weight, but trying to figure out how to fit the moxon hardware into that. Basically everything I see has the top thin so that the screws go underneath it, which limits the top thickness to about 2-2.5". As I've looked at carving bench designs they are all thin topped and then there is usually a comment to add a shelf to weigh it down.

Is there any reason it wouldn't work to have a 5" thick top and clear out channels in it for the screws on the moxon? If I plan it right I think I should be able to just build it into the design as I do the laminated glue up so I'm not doing a ton of chopping after the top is done.

Any thoughts on this plan? Anyone else build something along these lines?

I do quite a bit of carving and woodworking and offer the following comments. I'd recommend that you do a bit more carving before you build a carving bench. If you try to build a bench that does one thing well it may not work very well with the other. You'll probably do start with relief work and your woodworking bench will be ok. When you start carving more you'll want a bench that is higher, roughly a handwidth below your elbow (with your arm bent at 45 degrees). The best thickness is probably no more than 2 inches because at some point you'll be using carving screws that tighten from underneath the tabletop. Anything thicker is unwieldy. A tall vise will not be very useful for carving. I find that a moxon or bench on bench works well for flat work and a front vise and lots of dog holes are really helpful. (For relief work I usually attach the wood I'm going to carve to a larger piece of plywood/mdf with doublestick tape and clamp it using the front vise and dogs at the back). For large carvings that are flat I usually tilt the plywood,mdf somehow to allow better access. This isn't easy for me and requires a bit of fussy work to stabilize the work. A much much better solution is to have your carving bench top hinged at the front so that you can tilt the back up so that you can access your carving more easily. The best size for a carving only bench is probably 24 x 24 for the top with props of some fashion to hold the panel up. At some point you will likely want to also carve something in 3 dimensions, termed "in the round". Traditionally the wood is attached from the bottom with screws of some sort. However, I think that the best solution is a vise that rotates. I use a Wilton vise that isn't too expensive and I recommend it for smaller work, say 6 or 8 inches square. The absolute best solution is a Hydroclamp but is extremely expensive and is perpetually on my birthday/Christmas wish lists. Good luck with your carving.

[Mark Maleski]

I once built a carving bench with a vise on the front, and came to hate that vise. It wasn’t only the threat of the metal around my carving tools, it was also that the vise got in my way. Carving is a dynamic activity that involves your whole body; you’re using your feet, legs and torso just as much as your arms and hands…and the vise kept getting in my way as I was trying to move through a cut. I got rid of that bench and replaced it with my copy of Bill Pavlak’s carving bench (at the Anthony Hay shop). That one has no face vise to get in the way; you can press all the way up against the bench with nothing to snag against. Have been much happier with that carving bench.

[Mike Cornwall]

I wasn’t able to find Bill Pavlak’s bench online, is there any photos of it? Thanks in advance

[Thomas Crawford]

Mike I believe it is this:
https://anthonyhaycabinetmaker.wordpress.com/2013/12/24/a-carvers-platform-3/

I'm familiar with the Steve Latta design and this is a modification of it.

[Thomas Crawford]

I once built a carving bench with a vise on the front, and came to hate that vise. It wasn’t only the threat of the metal around my carving tools, it was also that the vise got in my way. Carving is a dynamic activity that involves your whole body; you’re using your feet, legs and torso just as much as your arms and hands…and the vise kept getting in my way as I was trying to move through a cut. I got rid of that bench and replaced it with my copy of Bill Pavlak’s carving bench (at the Anthony Hay shop). That one has no face vise to get in the way; you can press all the way up against the bench with nothing to snag against. Have been much happier with that carving bench.

I agree with you about the vise being in the way. I am planning on the bench being 48" long with the vise taking about 20" total in width (~16 btw the screws). That part of the bench is for dovetailing. That leaves me with 28" to work with, and if I end up with some huge flat carving project then I can unscrew the vise for that time period.

[Thomas Crawford]

I guess I should note here with my bench plan I have some specific carving goals in mind for the next few years. I will not be doing anything in the round any time soon. I have a few large wooden crosses to make that I want to add some celtic knotwork to, as well as some small appliques in a contrasting wood color. All of that should be easy workholding with the tail vise and double sided tape for the appliques. Secondly I am aspiring to carve some icons, which are largely just 10x12 relief carvings.

And in the end I might suck at it, and I'll at least have a joinery bench because I am half-way decent at building standard furniture. At a minimum I have many dovetails to cut and mortises to chop in my future.

[Mike Cornwall]

I’m not sure, I saw that one but I’ve also seen photos of Pavlak working on something more like a Mallila MB.

http://www.workbenches.se/en/modelmb.php

I’ve seen an Ulmia in that scheme too I think.

[Prashun Patel]

Looks like it worked out for you. Good looking bench.

I do a decent amount of carving. Enough to know that there's some variance in what people carve. If you are looking to carve images into the face of a board, then a bench as you've designed probably suits you fine.

But if you are carving things at multiple positions (maybe even crosses or spoons as I do) I have found one of these immensely helpful. Woodcraft and LV and many others make similar models. If you time it right these can be had for under $150.

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This vise has several wonderful features:

1) I attaches through a dog hole onto an existing bench. So it can be positioned many places - including in a saw bench as a makeshift shaving horse.
2) When using it on a standard woodworking bench it raises the work conveniently as does your bench on bench.
3) The soft jaws do not mar the work.
4) The jaws pivot to hold irregularly shaped items.

[JOEL MONGEON]

But if you are carving things at multiple positions (maybe even crosses or spoons as I do) I have found one of these immensely helpful. Woodcraft and LV and many others make similar models. If you time it right these can be had for under $150.

493757

How do you like this vise for spoon carving?
I've made a spoon mule and then built a collapsible shave horse to carve spoons. They both have worn out (left one out in the rain, the other was made from pine and broke) and take up too much space. I was thinking of giving this vise a try but did not want to spend the money if it is not a decent replacement.

[Prashun Patel]

I love this vise. I'm using drawknives and spokeshaves and gouges (2 handed tools) for all but the finishing work; I'm coming at spoons more as a chairmaker would than a traditional Swedish carver might. So, I need another pair of hands and this is perfect for that. It holds things securely and you can really get around and in front or behind of things in a way that my leg, face, and tail vises do not allow.

I (like many) have gotten into spoon carving because it's conducive to being outside. I used to just do knife work outside, but lately I've been fitting this to my saw bench. I haven't worked out all the ergonmic kinks of using this outside, but I still love being able to do this.

[Mark Maleski]

Mike I believe it is this:
https://anthonyhaycabinetmaker.wordpress.com/2013/12/24/a-carvers-platform-3/

I'm familiar with the Steve Latta design and this is a modification of it.

yes, that’s the one I meant. I see he credited Steve Latta as his influence in that post. The one I built is a slightly jankier version of that. 🫣 It’s great for low relief carving. I especially like it’s simplicity.