Stair skirt on existing steps (to be carpeted)

[andrew whicker]

Looks like the world will make a finish carpenter out of me yet.

Silly questions:

When scribing to the existing steps... do you use a special pin or just sharpen a brad nail?

This is going to be for a 16 ft stretch of stairs... If there is a bow in the set of stairs the only thing I can do a that point is decide my angle and my smallest acceptable height difference between the tread and the top of the skirt, right? I can't imagine doing anything else.

Last question: My life would be a lot easier if the stair installers just left room for a skirt board on either side of the treads and risers. The only thing I think I can do is multi tool my life away to cut the treads and risers for a proper gap. Is there a tool I could use to go that route instead of scribing a skirt to the steps?

[James Pallas]

Andrew It would be far easier if you could find a stair person to help. It’s not difficult but can get into a lot of steps if there are problems. I did several hundred if them. The first thing is to get the bottom edge of the skirt to touch the nose of every tread or at least close. Next make sure of your overhangs top and bottom. I use to use a framing square and a 2 foot level to lay out directly on the skirt. The two most important points are the tip of the nosing and the intersection of the tread to the riser. It should be straight lines between those points. Hope this helps and does not totally confuse you. Funny I haven’t done any stairs in years but last month i helped my neighbor with his stairs, skirts railings and all. Even 20 years ago we had framing carpenters use ladders and stair contractors or finish carpenters do the rough horses.
Jim

[andrew whicker]

I don't understand the straight lines between those points comment / can't picture it.

It does makes sense that if the stairs have a bow in them I will need to make the bottom of the stair skirt touch all the noses (i.e give the bottom of the stair skirt a bow). So the top of the stair skirt will be straight and this won't look too goofy when comparing visually to the stair treads?

[James Pallas]

If the risers are plumb and the treads level than you could just use a framing square and lay out the skirt easy peasy. If the riser is not plumb and tread not level than you have to find those two points and mark them on your skirt for EACH tread and riser. You than can connect the marks with straight cut lines for each tread. You than have an upside down pattern of a rough horse (stringer) with all its errors. You can not just go through and mark because if one nose is 1/4”off it moves the whole pattern 1/4” multiplied. A whole chapter for a book could be written about this. The good part is once understood you could scribe a line to the “crack of dawn” There are other ways to do it, sticking sticks and the like. I always use a framing square a level and just a little guessdamation. Now doing winders is another subject😉.
Him

[andrew whicker]

Thanks so much. That's a good explanation. I'm digesting this..

I'm going in w/ the assumption that a 16ft length of stairs is NOT going to be a straight line.

[Dennis Jarchow]

Andrew,

I assume you have seen the articles on Gary Katz site about scribing stair skirts. The method they use accounts for the stairs not being a straight line:

https://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2011/04/16/scribing-skirt-boards/

https://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2013/07/12/scribing-stair-skirt-boards-revisited/

[andrew whicker]

I read the 'revisited'... looking at the other one now.

[andrew whicker]

This is a good video, but it only covers the situation where you install the skirtboard first. But for anyone that comes across this thread, it is good and it does cover other problems I'm going to come across.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsEsG4maCA8

This video is a quick how-to on the existing stair how to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzeEiKAceMA

[andrew whicker]

I wish there were classes out here like there are on the East Coast. I did take a cabinetry class down here, but it was only an intro class. I definitely learned, but by the end I was maxed out on my knowledge.

That PA school sounds awesome

[Bryan Hall]

The stair guys don't sweat this at all but I had to do it a few times and found it to be really challenging. I tried to follow all the tips in videos but without a stair guy there to teach me I never was efficient. I was especially burned by how far off the rise and run of each step was. The lack of consistency was shocking to me and made it difficult to wrap my head around how to do it consistently. I even met a stair guy who just slapped a straight board up, cut a bunch of triangles, and walked away.

All this to say good luck! If you find a solid system on your own I'd love to learn about it.

[andrew whicker]

I don't want to pass this opportunity up because it's stairs that are going to be carpeted so a good starting set of stairs except that they are one long run. Which I know is going to throw up some obstacles.

[andrew whicker]

Andrew,

I assume you have seen the articles on Gary Katz site about scribing stair skirts. The method they use accounts for the stairs not being a straight line:

https://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2011/04/16/scribing-skirt-boards/

https://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2013/07/12/scribing-stair-skirt-boards-revisited/

How do they account for the stairs not being a straight line? The part that confuses me is if a few tread noses are sitting backwards (or forwards) of a chalk line that goes from the top tread nose to the bottom tread nose... meaning the skirt board before it gets cut will not be touching each tread nose. In all the videos I've seen (and these articles), the stairs are built well enough to not have this issue.

The more I think about it, the more I just need to go back over the customer's house to put up a chalk line and see what I have. I have to go back for another reason anyway.

[Cameron Wood]

I think a good approach is to establish the height you want above the treads, and mark that line, then on the skirt board cut a level line at the lower floor.
Tack the skirt board resting on the noses and resting on the lower floor, and scribe the skirt to slide horizontally back into place.
Lastly cut the ends to meet baseboard, etc.. Use square edged transition blocks if needed, especially at corners where there is a big drop.

[Bryan Hall]

In all the videos I've seen (and these articles), the stairs are built well enough to not have this issue.

Yep, that was the issue I ran into as well. Real world stairs were nowhere near the youtube demonstrations unfortunately! I only did it a few times but always had to fix errors. Not the end of the world, but I would love to spend a day with a pro stair guy who does it frequently.

[Tom M King]

I've built a fair number of stairs, but I have no idea what this discussion is about-not good with word pictures.

I found the easiest way to build perfect stairs was with housed stringers. I never liked glued up boards for parts, so always had to go from scratch. These were 27 years old when I took this picture.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Grand Pa would cut the skirt simultaneously to cutting the stringers and hide it away in the attic until the plastering was done.

[James Pallas]

Many times the stringers are cut just fine. Than someone comes along with whatever off cut 2 x 6’s that are around and slaps them on, various widths and all. Job instantly more difficult. Sometimes you can change a few treads to get them close to the same width tread wise. Riser height is more difficult. Sometimes a shim here and there will improve it some. Again the two most important points are the tread nose and the intersection of the tread and riser at the back of the tread. If you can properly transfer those points to your skirt
blank mark the lines and cut. You should be ok for carpet. Having someone knowledgeable about it to help makes it so much easier it’s worth paying for it. Once learned it will stay with you.
Jim

[andrew whicker]

492501

These are the stairs that I did NOT build. I have to add a stair skirt (or at least quote with the intention to add). Considering how much thought I've already given this and how concerned I am it will take a full day, I think this will be quite a spendy upgrade for stairs that go down into a basement.

[Tom M King]

I would cut one oversize, but close to fitting the stairs, and scribe it in place. You may have to repeat a time or two. Once it fits the stairs, then trim down the top.

[Kevin Jenness]

Andrew,

I assume you have seen the articles on Gary Katz site about scribing stair skirts. The method they use accounts for the stairs not being a straight line:

https://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2011/04/16/scribing-skirt-boards/

https://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2013/07/12/scribing-stair-skirt-boards-revisited/

This is a foolproof way to scribe in a skirt to existing treads and risers. A fully housed carriage with wedged and glued treads and risers is best, but that is often not possible and this is an excellent solution

[Cameron Wood]

Relieving the noses so the skirt slides in is possible, but maybe just as much work as scribing around them.

Just do it- not that hard (aside from having to sit on the stair). Remember, scribe so the skirt drops down or so that it slides back, but not both at the same time.

[Gregory King]

492501

These are the stairs that I did NOT build. I have to add a stair skirt (or at least quote with the intention to add). Considering how much thought I've already given this and how concerned I am it will take a full day, I think this will be quite a spendy upgrade for stairs that go down into a basement.

Perhaps if you remove the plywood risers and treads, there may indeed be an allowable space for the skirtboard.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

492521

This not where my imagination had gone. If the treads and risers have not been glued I would remove them, install the skirts, trim the treads and risers and re-install. If they are glued, how about creating a pattern with heavy paper, tape, and a string-line? It looks there might be room so slide pattern paper in-between the drywall in a few places?

[James Pallas]

Making this far to difficult. Measure the height of the risers use an average. If its supposed to be seven mark seven at all treads.Set your skirt on the treads. Mark the skirt back and nose at that height on the skirt at each tread. Make a vertical mark at the nose of each tread on the skirt. Move that line back an inch or so. Connect the dots and cut. Set the skirt in place. The skirt should fit the treads fairly good. Scribe around the nose and the riser cut and fit to your hearts content. Those are a pretty decent set of stairs. You are going to see far worse in the future if you continue to work on stairs. Imagine scribing to flagstone or split log stairs.
Jim

[andrew whicker]

Well, far from perfect. Maybe the other side will go better... BUT good enough for carpet!

I didn't have a spare tread bull nose profile so I made my own on MDF w/ a jigsaw and sander. Worked okay.

I still don't understand how to use a jigsaw for fine work. How to cut the bull nose is apparently beyond my skill level so far. It was fun being challenged though. I look forward to trying again.

494312

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Bravo! Good Job Well Done! I have some 1/8 inch jigsaw blades. That bullnose would require a lot of nibbling even with skinny blades.

[James Pallas]

Well done. You have a system now or close. When you have built some confidence you will figure out how you can drill the bullnose before you cut. Being able to accurately scribe to fit will greatly improve your finish carpentry skills.
Jim