Router table motor

[Ben Grefe]

I'm looking to rebuild my router table and upgrade my lift and motor from a Triton + plate to a true lift and dedicated motor.

Thinking about the build, I've come up with two main wants in the motor - using ER20 collets (so I can mix and match from my CNC) and some sort of remote speed adjustment. Looking through my options, it seems that woodpeckers has a router motor with ER20 collets and Jessem used to have a motor with remote speed control, but it's long out of stock. That got me looking into CNC spindles + VFD for speed control.

Does anybody have any experience using a CNC spindle on their router table? In theory I don't see why it wouldn't work and there are some awfully cheap spindle options out there. My biggest concern is getting a lift combination that'll fit the spindle. I was thinking worse case I use the 3D printer to make a custom shim.

Second question - any recommendations on lifts? I'm down to the JessEm Mast-R-Lift II or the SawStop lift. Any others people recommend?

[Keith Pitman]

Jessem just started shipping a new version of their motor with remote on/off and speed control.

https://jessem.com/products/jessems-pow-r-tek-sr™-router-with-variable-control-box?variant=40345048711238

[Jim Becker]

I know that Brian Holcombe was considering using a spindle in a router table setup, but I do not recall if he executed on that or not.

Having ER20 (or ER25 in my case to match my CNC) is a really nice benefit if you can accomplish that. It opens up a lot more tooling flexibility because in the overall world of tooling, there's a lot of good stuff that doesn't have "quarter inch" or "half inch" shanks. It also means it's a lot easier to replace a collet over time...they are technically disposables. The whole ER system is really nice.

[Ben Grefe]

Wow, that jessem motor looks exactly like what I want - except for the price. $500 plus tax is well into Chinese spindle + VFD territory. Will need to think hard about that one.

[Tom M King]

Does the Grizzly 1-1/2 hp shaper use collets for router bits? It's been a while since I looked at them, but if they do it would be worth looking at them.

[Justin Rapp]

Wow, that jessem motor looks exactly like what I want - except for the price. $500 plus tax is well into Chinese spindle + VFD territory. Will need to think hard about that one.

I thought the same - 500 bucks is a tall order. I don't think Jessem collects tax for US sales, pending where you are. I have Woodpeckers' spinrite router in my table and I like it a lot better then my porter cable. It doesn't hold a 500 price tag, but will get hit for tax and their semi-high shipping costs. The downside, no remote speed control like the Jessem. I think if I change speed all the time i'd order the jessem.

[Chris Parks]

I thought the same - 500 bucks is a tall order. I don't think Jessem collects tax for US sales, pending where you are. I have Woodpeckers' spinrite router in my table and I like it a lot better then my porter cable. It doesn't hold a 500 price tag, but will get hit for tax and their semi-high shipping costs. The downside, no remote speed control like the Jessem. I think if I change speed all the time i'd order the jessem.

Everything you need to know is available in the Australian WW forum and I am sure I have also posted it here as well but I may be wrong with that. Search the router sub forum for my name because I am not allowed to provide a direct link here. Why people are still putting hand held routers in tables beats me and the lifts are simply over the top expensive.

[Richard Coers]

Does the Grizzly 1-1/2 hp shaper use collets for router bits? It's been a while since I looked at them, but if they do it would be worth looking at them.
I don't know of a shaper that spins the same speed as a standard router motor. Especially critical with small diameter bits.

[Bryan Cramer]

FYI: Triton has come out with a PC 3.25hp router motor clone. I bought one but haven’t really used it but it seems decent. https://www.rockler.com/triton-325hp-router-motor

[Justin Rapp]

Everything you need to know is available in the Australian WW forum and I am sure I have also posted it here as well but I may be wrong with that. Search the router sub forum for my name because I am not allowed to provide a direct link here. Why people are still putting hand held routers in tables beats me and the lifts are simply over the top expensive.

I honestly have no clue why your quoted my post in response to this thread except for the use of a handheld router, which is about what most responses in this tread are about. Well, if lifts are over the top expensive and there is something better then a router motor that can be hand held or machine mounted, please explain here without having us wild-goose chase for you in another forum. You have over 7500 posts on the Australian WW forum so i am sure not going to find what you are talking about.

[Chris Parks]

I honestly have no clue why your quoted my post in response to this thread except for the use of a handheld router, which is about what most responses in this tread are about. Well, if lifts are over the top expensive and there is something better then a router motor that can be hand held or machine mounted, please explain here without having us wild-goose chase for you in another forum. You have over 7500 posts on the Australian WW forum so i am sure not going to find what you are talking about.

From the OP...
Does anybody have any experience using a CNC spindle on their router table? In theory I don't see why it wouldn't work and there are some awfully cheap spindle options out there. My biggest concern is getting a lift combination that'll fit the spindle.

I have posted all the info here previously, do a search.

[Chris Parks]

Does anybody have any experience using a CNC spindle on their router table? In theory I don't see why it wouldn't work and there are some awfully cheap spindle options out there. My biggest concern is getting a lift combination that'll fit the spindle. I was thinking worse case I use the 3D printer to make a custom shim

This link will take you to a table I built some years ago using a water cooled CNC spindle driven by a VFD. It is Google search link so should not violate the TOC's of this forum.

A Router Table Using Linear Rails For a Lift (woodworkforums.com) (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f20/router-table-using-linear-rails-lift-227354)

It has above table adjustment, is near silent when running prior to machining and the DRO gives precise height control. When it was built (2019) the lift cost about $120 and the DRO about $50. It has been used and abused in a woodworking school every day since it was built with no problems at all. Air cooled routers or spindles such as the Jessem are a disaster in RT's due to dust ingress into the motor and are far noisier than a water cooled motor.

Since then I have built two versions of an electronic table which is not pertinent here but uses the same spindle and we have perfected a dust free solution as shown in the below photos. It seals against the underneath of the top and runs full length under the table top from front to back. Because the spindle is completely sealed as it is water cooled it sits in the dust extraction duct with no chance of dust affecting it. The first thing that is wrong with conventional lifts is the concentric ring system because it completely kills air flow, in fact it stops dead because no air in means no air out. A router table needs an insert that only fills the table around the bit up to the centre axis of the bit and an elongated hole that begins where the insert stops and goes under the fence and in our testing and use it leaves zero dust on the table or in the duct. I will put two photos up, the first shows a full length duct as I described above and the second shows the latest version we now intend to use. I think there may be a third that has an adjustable vent at the opposite end of where the extraction port is to allow a lot of air in that will create a venturi affect through the elongated slot in the table top but the jury is still out on that.

The first version

492238

The second version on our electronic table which clearly shows the spindle in the chute

492239

Using a spindle is a way better idea than an air cooled router for quite a few reasons

Way quiter

The lift costs pennies to build compared to a commercial one

Because the lift is not attached to the top the top does not need to be hugely thick

The top can be made removeable and custom tops for specific jobs is a realistic thing to do

The spindle is bullet proof in my experience

The VFD gives way better control of speed

The spindle uses ER20 chucks and can be used as a spindle sander if need be or any other use you can think of.

I realise water freezes where a lot of people live but a bit of anti freeze will sort that out.

This shows a table with the elongated hole under the fence


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnThLDpQajg&t=9s&ab_channel=MichaelZing

[Justin Rapp]

This link will take you to a table I built some years ago using a water cooled CNC spindle driven by a VFD. It is Google search link so should not violate the TOC's of this forum.

A Router Table Using Linear Rails For a Lift (woodworkforums.com) (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f20/router-table-using-linear-rails-lift-227354)

It has above table adjustment, is near silent when running prior to machining and the DRO gives precise height control. When it was built (2019) the lift cost about $120 and the DRO about $50. It has been used and abused in a woodworking school every day since it was built with no problems at all. Air cooled routers or spindles such as the Jessem are a disaster in RT's due to dust ingress into the motor and are far noisier than a water cooled motor.

Since then I have built two versions of an electronic table which is not pertinent here but uses the same spindle and we have perfected a dust free solution as shown in the below photos. It seals against the underneath of the top and runs full length under the table top from front to back. Because the spindle is completely sealed as it is water cooled it sits in the dust extraction duct with no chance of dust affecting it. The first thing that is wrong with conventional lifts is the concentric ring system because it completely kills air flow, in fact it stops dead because no air in means no air out. A router table needs an insert that only fills the table around the bit up to the centre axis of the bit and an elongated hole that begins where the insert stops and goes under the fence and in our testing and use it leaves zero dust on the table or in the duct. I will put two photos up, the first shows a full length duct as I described above and the second shows the latest version we now intend to use. I think there may be a third that has an adjustable vent at the opposite end of where the extraction port is to allow a lot of air in that will create a venturi affect through the elongated slot in the table top but the jury is still out on that.

The first version

492238

The second version on our electronic table which clearly shows the spindle in the chute

492239

Using a spindle is a way better idea than an air cooled router for quite a few reasons

Way quiter

The lift costs pennies to build compared to a commercial one

Because the lift is not attached to the top the top does not need to be hugely thick

The top can be made removeable and custom tops for specific jobs is a realistic thing to do

The spindle is bullet proof in my experience

The VFD gives way better control of speed

The spindle uses ER20 chucks and can be used as a spindle sander if need be or any other use you can think of.

I realise water freezes where a lot of people live but a bit of anti freeze will sort that out.

This shows a table with the elongated hole under the fence


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnThLDpQajg&t=9s&ab_channel=MichaelZing

So I know you said something about the cost of a router lift. It seems the cost is almost the same by the time you are done if not more. Lift and motor is just about $800 usd for the motor/lift I have. While a water cooled system might be quit, my motor isn't all that loud.

[Chris Parks]

So I know you said something about the cost of a router lift. It seems the cost is almost the same by the time you are done if not more. Lift and motor is just about $800 usd for the motor/lift I have. While a water cooled system might be quit, my motor isn't all that loud.

But you did not ask the question so my answers are not relevant to you only the OP. He is the one who wants to build a table and using a Jessem air cooled spindle is not the best idea. A water cooled spindle kit comes with a Spjndle, VFD and a complete set of ER20 chucks, the Jessem has a speed control, no extra chucks and will not be as durable as a CNC spindle. The Jessem is a knock off of the AUK spindle that first appeared at least 5 years ago and had to be pulled from the market because every single one failed after about 5 minutes of use.

[Ben Grefe]

I'm looking at some water cooled spindle kits on Amazon and it looks like I could get one for ~300 which is close enough to the ER-20 router motor on Woodpeckers. Might need to think about that. The DRO + automatic control looks interesting, need to figure out if this is something I'm really up for.

One more question for people who have them - are sliding tables on router tables useful? I was already planning on making a fence out of parts from 8020.com and if I'm looking at buying some linear rails, it's got me thinking about a sliding table in the front. Most sliding tables seem less than worth it because you can't get too close to the bit (because of the router lift) - but a custom made lift like @Chris Parks is suggesting would possibly avoid that problem.

[Jim Becker]

Ben, sliding tables on shapers are a good thing for certain operations for sure. There have been a few offerings like that for router tables for the same reason. Coping is a good example because a fixture attached to a sliding table can be a lot more stable and precise through the movement. Doing certain operations on panels that are flat on the table can also be enhanced because of reduced friction. Etc.

[Chris Parks]

Using a lift not attached to the tale top means the top can be easily lifted of and custom tops made so why not a sliding top, sounds good to me.

Our latest electronic table using 20 series extrusion, forget the electronics and the lift is still applicable to manual operation. It would be very feasible to use a motor to drive the spindle and control it with a manual push button switch but a lift only has to move about 100mm so using a winder is not a big task.

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And just out of interest here is a picture of a protype table which we did not go ahead with due to lots of issues we did not anticipate. It was working at that stage but had so many problems we built the 20 series table. You can see the touch screen controller and VFD control panel attached to the back of the fence. I would not advise anyone to take the electronic version on without the skills needed to trouble shoot the electronics. The fence and lift position could be motor driven using manual controlled switches quite easily and DRO's are cheap to buy.

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[David M Peters]

The MLCS 3-1/4HP router motor (https://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/u-turn-lift.html#router_motor_anchor) uses ER-20 collets and has a mechanical variable speed feature. I got one last month for my and have been pleased with it. I got the variable speed option which is just a long stiff cable that extends the speed dial. It works OK but due to cable "flop" doesn't feel very precise to use.

Oddly enough the documentation on their motor doesn't say anything about the collets. Woodpecker heavily promotes the same feature on their motor.

And for what it's worth I made the a similar upgrade - from a Bosch 1617 mounted to the underside of plywood to a "real" router table. I went with Rockler's cast iron package (https://www.rockler.com/rockler-cast-iron-router-table-master-kit-with-cabinet-and-pro-lift). It's a nice product.

[Patrick Varley]

I'm looking to rebuild my router table and upgrade my lift and motor from a Triton + plate to a true lift and dedicated motor.

Thinking about the build, I've come up with two main wants in the motor - using ER20 collets (so I can mix and match from my CNC) and some sort of remote speed adjustment. Looking through my options, it seems that woodpeckers has a router motor with ER20 collets and Jessem used to have a motor with remote speed control, but it's long out of stock. That got me looking into CNC spindles + VFD for speed control.

Does anybody have any experience using a CNC spindle on their router table? In theory I don't see why it wouldn't work and there are some awfully cheap spindle options out there. My biggest concern is getting a lift combination that'll fit the spindle. I was thinking worse case I use the 3D printer to make a custom shim.

Second question - any recommendations on lifts? I'm down to the JessEm Mast-R-Lift II or the SawStop lift. Any others people recommend?

This got me looking at this again, and it appears you can now buy a 107mm (4.2 in) to 80mm adapter off the Chinese import sites. Might work to let you use the spindle with any of the lifts.

No experience with it, but I'm now tempted. Addresses a lot of issues, even if it still relies on the lift.