Segment gluing advice

[Ben Darrah]

I am starting a segmented bowl with Morado (Bolivian Rosewood) and East Indian Satinwood. I have very rarely worked with exotics and only got these boards because they were buried in a pile of lumber I bought at auction. I am finding conflicting info on gluing, with some people saying that titebond II is fine as long as you pretreat with a solvent. Others say not to use PVA glues at all. I would appreciate advice from people who have done segmented pieces with these or other rosewoods.

Thanks
Ben

[Jim Morgan]

Segmented vessels have lots of glue surface, which mitigates concerns that arise in traditional furniture joinery. When I work with oily exotics, I wipe them down with acetone until no more color comes off on the rag and then glue with Titebond and let it cure overnight. I have not experienced any glue-line failures while turning. Of course, epoxy will work as well but IMHO it's overkill in this situation.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I don't know about Titebond 2 as I've never used it on exotics, but I've glued them with Original Titebond and it's done fine. I don't wipe the wood with solvents. For east indian rosewood, pau ferro, bubinga, etc this has worked fine for me.

[Dwayne Watt]

The advice I have seen is to glue up soon after sanding or cutting. If not soon, then wipe with a solvent. Does it matter? I don't know but I have yet to have anything come apart using Titebond II or III (bloodwood, mahoghany, purpleheart, bubinga). That said, I glue up segments immediately after I cut them. I glue up rings immediately after flattening on the sander.
Sounds like you hit the jackpot on your auction score.

[Edward Weber]

I agree with James,
Titebond 2 is just fine for segmenting, I've made numerous pieces that have lasted years.
The wood, in some cases, might need to be wiped with acetone before gluing, to remove the naturals that are at the surface and provide a better gluing.
It's always good to check the wood database when working with species that are new to you.
https://www.wood-database.com/wood-filter/

[Mel Fulks]

Hot glue is good for segments, sets in a moment. It’s been used for a long time and is still the easiest to use. Has no creep . Sands easily.
Titebond 2 is certainly good stuff, but for segments you have to do some rubbing. Hot glue is more “stick on “.

[Edward Weber]

I personally would not recommend hot glue for segmenting.
Yes there are some high strength options available but "normal" hot melt glue is simply too weak and too thick to leave a clean glue line.
If you're interested in segmenting, you can always look over at Segmented woodturners.
https://segmentedwoodturners.org/
There is a lot of good information available.

[Mel Fulks]

Edward , thanks for adding info. I don’t know what normal is . Used it for years in employments, but only bought some once. There are
different strengths ( there is a name and or numbers for the strengths ) . But what I was referring to is flakes or ground animal glue that
have been used for hundreds of years. The lower strength stuff is used for things like the tops of bowed instruments as the tops sometimes
have to be removed to make a repair. And according to some sources the Cremonese builders would sometimes remove a top to do more thinning. And modern repair guys sometimes have to open bowed instruments. Hot hide glue and “hot melt” are quite different ! We agree
that “hot melt” is not for fine instruments, but children like it and it does speed up their work.

[Edward Weber]

Mel, It sounded like you were talking about a hot glue gun, BIG difference to hot melt (hide) glue that you're talking about.
I just don't want anyone thinking that the scrapbook glue gun is good enough for segmenting.

[Ben Darrah]

Thanks guys, I will probably just stick with titebond then. Been awhile since I worked with traditional hyde glue. The way I am currently gluing rings, I like the longer open time of PVA.

[Mel Fulks]

Either will work , but with all blocks being equal in size …except the last one, AKA odd-ball. The first quick glue,( white glue ) was
rightly scorned for creeping , …although I was able to make some great popsicle stick baskets with it ! Yellow glue was the big butt-kick to
hot glue . Some still accuse yellow glue of creep , but I’ve never seen it.

[Robert Hayward]

Some still accuse yellow glue of creep , but I’ve never seen it.
Using yellow glue for segmented work I get creep more often than when I do not.

[Brian Tymchak]

Thanks guys, I will probably just stick with titebond then. Been awhile since I worked with traditional hyde glue. The way I am currently gluing rings, I like the longer open time of PVA.

Titebond offers a hide glue with an advertised open time of 10 minutes which is a few minutes longer than TB3. If your wood is dark, then the brown glue line is a non-issue.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I have made more than 300 banjo rims with 54 or 72 segments each. Using Titebond Original I have never had creep. I have heard people say that creep is much more of a problem with II and III but I haven't tried them.

[Mel Fulks]

[QUOTE=Zachary Hoyt;3230727]I have made more than 300 banjo rims with 54 or 72 segments each. Using Titebond Original I have never had creep. I have heard people say that creep is much more of a problem with II and III but I haven't tried them.

When the glue is completely cured there is no creep. So, I disagree with the rumors ! My take is if you let stuff sit and set long enough ….
there is no creep with the worst of “creeping glues”. Creep can be a big deal ,causing redos . Most shops just don’t have time for “aging “.
So they use what works ‘right now’ ….and that’s OK. Guys who are running shops ,or cranking out a lot of goods working alone don’t want
to wait. I think that a test with all the Tite Bonds would ,after two weeks max curing in a shop kept at 70 degrees ,or more , show that none
creeped , and are not going to creep.

[Edward Weber]

[QUOTE=Zachary Hoyt;3230727]I have made more than 300 banjo rims with 54 or 72 segments each. Using Titebond Original I have never had creep. I have heard people say that creep is much more of a problem with II and III but I haven't tried them.

When the glue is completely cured there is no creep. So, I disagree with the rumors ! My take is if you let stuff sit and set long enough ….
there is no creep with the worst of “creeping glues”. Creep can be a big deal ,causing redos . Most shops just don’t have time for “aging “.
So they use what works ‘right now’ ….and that’s OK. Guys who are running shops ,or cranking out a lot of goods working alone don’t want
to wait. I think that a test with all the Tite Bonds would ,after two weeks max curing in a shop kept at 70 degrees ,or more , show that none
creeped , and are not going to creep.

I agree with you Mel, but Wood turners are an impatient bunch.
They don't like to wait for glue, finish, or even for the bowl to dry (Hi Reed) in some cases. All they seem to want to do is turn the next piece.
I should know,
I'm currently an admin at http://www.woodturnersresource.com/, where I've been a member since 04 and a member of https://segmentedwoodturners.org/, where I've been a member since 09.

With titebond, you can typically handle glued segments in an hour, as long as you don't stress the joint too much. And yes, this applies to simple rub joints also, no clamping necessary.
I have no problem running rings through my drum sander after about 90 minutes

[Ben Darrah]

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I figured I should submit some pics of finished (almost) bowl. This is after the first coat of finish. Honest critiques are always welcome, even if not positive.

Thanks