The throw-away society!

[Mark Gibney]

My expensive Fasco pin nailer is kaput. The piston is bent, and needs to be replaced.
So I borrowed my neighbors Harbor Freight pin nailer.
I really liked this HF tool - it leaves a tiny hole. The Fasco nailer leaves a noticeably larger hole.

A replacement piston for the Fasco is $28 plus tax etc, a new HF nailer is $27.

I'm tempted to retire the Fasco and get a HF nailer. But I can hear my mother giving out about the throw-away society!

I normally like to get tools repaired (or do it myself) but I'm disappointed that this happened to the Fasco (I've no idea when or how) and I've always been disappointed the hole is so big in comparison to other pin nailers I've used.
What would you do?

[Patrick Varley]

Well, that HF nailer is essentially a disposable too. And it likely has a shorter service life. Don't get me wrong, I have one and it works for me because I'm only a hobbyist.

I'd repair the Fasco, and if you really prefer the performance of another nailer, let the Fasco go to another home at a good price to pay for the purchase of something else.

[Jim Becker]

If the HFT pinner will do what you want and can drive the length of pins you need for the work you do, I see very little downside. Their tools are reasonably good these days including the pneumatics. I wouldn't buy their fasteners, but for the same money as the replacement piston for your current tool, you immediately get a working unit that doesn't leave the larger hole you don't prefer. It could be the end solution or a stopgap as you consider other options, including other brands such as Grex.

[Frederick Skelly]

I'd go buy the HF. I would keep the (unrepaired) FASCO for a while in case. You can always repair it a little later.

[Dave Sabo]

What would you do?


better tool/performance for less money...................I think the choice is obvious.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'd buy a Grex, keep the fasco and order parts, then never actually fix it until the unlikely event that the Grex breaks. This approach has two benefits, it provides amusement in pondering the confused awe of the buyers at my estate sale, and assures that I don't have to borrow tools. I hate borrowing tools.

[Tom M King]

The only Fasco I have is a full auto T50 stapler. I only bought it because it was the only one I could find. It's awesome. Takes about three seconds to run out three strips of T50 staples.

https://www.stapleheadquarters.com/ItemForm.aspx?Item=F1B%20A11-16%20ALM&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqOucBhDrARIsAPCQL1YlEP_S77iaVL-oGu3VBMSzaWgAk8sb478N4sd3MHOSLSOdsyaiDGsaAqEaEALw_ wcB

I would fix it if it broke.

[Jeff Roltgen]

+1 on what Steve said.
(especially the estate sale part - I'll have to get creative in that respect as well!)


​jeff

[Donald G. Burns]

Why not attempt to fix the bent pin?

[Richard Coers]

Are you lamenting the fact of a throw away society, or asking if you should join it?

[John K Jordan]

I personally don’t buy anything worth moving parts from Harbor Freight but I know may do and plan on tossing it and buying another when it quits. I’d rather spend the money on a quality brand and not have to interrupt my project and lose not only the momentum but the hour+ time. Maybe planning for the breakdown by buying two cheap tools would be better, but not for me.

But keep in mind a broken tool may not all have to go to the landfill - I keep a pile of steel for recycle, old break drums etc, and add pieces of defunct tools and such to the pile. And the metals recycling place pays by the pound.


My expensive Fasco pin nailer is kaput. The piston is bent, and needs to be replaced.
So I borrowed my neighbors Harbor Freight pin nailer.
I really liked this HF tool - it leaves a tiny hole. The Fasco nailer leaves a noticeably larger hole.

A replacement piston for the Fasco is $28 plus tax etc, a new HF nailer is $27.

I'm tempted to retire the Fasco and get a HF nailer. But I can hear my mother giving out about the throw-away society!

I normally like to get tools repaired (or do it myself) but I'm disappointed that this happened to the Fasco (I've no idea when or how) and I've always been disappointed the hole is so big in comparison to other pin nailers I've used.
What would you do?

[Mark Gibney]

Richard I'm both lamenting the throw away society and that I'm a fully paid up member!
Donald, I think trying to fix the bent pin will likely lead to more frustration.
I think I'll swing my Harbor Freight and pick up their fine pin gun and put the Fasco in the back of a dark cupboard for now.
Thank you all for your input.

[Bob Borzelleri]

I used to say that I would never buy anything from HF with moving parts, but then I bought a angle drill to use for sanding bowls. That was about 10 years ago and it still works although it has always sounded as though it was eating itself.

Up til then, I had only bought things like dead blow hammers (got two of them and the only thing that keeps them from looking like new is the expected light scars on the faces and having turned about 9 shades lighter than the original day glo orange. Would never consider buying anything that I expect to hold two thing together for more tgan a few minutes.

I bought my first Grex pin nailer at a show sometime around 2005 or so. Still works like a champ. I have a Senco palm nailer that has better usage as a paper weight.

[Bill Dufour]

I would buy the Hf and see if the piston will swap in for the fasco. It may be the same size and work fine. Honestly I would be surprised if it is not the same piston while the rod may be smaller.
Bill D

[Jay Michaels]

I'd buy a Grex, keep the fasco and order parts, then never actually fix it until the unlikely event that the Grex breaks. This approach has two benefits, it provides amusement in pondering the confused awe of the buyers at my estate sale, and assures that I don't have to borrow tools. I hate borrowing tools.


This is just a beautifully perfect response.

[glenn bradley]

I've been running a HF pinner and a comparable C&H nailer for nearly 20 years. The Paslode and the Grex guns I have are much nicer and more refined. They all work and all live in the same rack. We have no prima donnas in my shop. I'd grab the HF and run it till it dies. Mine seem immortal.

[Warren Lake]

I dont use pin nailers on furniture prefer to glue and clamp. The irony on the old US tools that I have with over 40 years on them, same brands are likely offshore now.

[Edward Weber]

If the HFT pinner will do what you want and can drive the length of pins you need for the work you do, I see very little downside. Their tools are reasonably good these days including the pneumatics. I wouldn't buy their fasteners, but for the same money as the replacement piston for your current tool, you immediately get a working unit that doesn't leave the larger hole you don't prefer. It could be the end solution or a stopgap as you consider other options, including other brands such as Grex.



This is exactly my thoughts.
It's not a handcrafted, antique tool from the 1800s, it's a mass-produced "disposable" tool.
Yes you can fix them, but when fixing them becomes more expensive than replacing them with better tools, it's no longer an economical or even practical decision, it's emotional.
Unless you have some sort of attachment to that nailer, bin it.
JMHO

[Warren Lake]

im sure at some point the Sencos will fail. At that point ill take them apart clean them and get new seals and carry on.

[Cameron Wood]

I'm at about 50% success/fail rate repairing nail guns, including having them (supposedly) professionally serviced. The older ones often don't have parts available e.g. a Senco one that I just scrapped.

I have a HF roofing nailer, bought in a pinch, & it works fine, & gets good reviews from roofers.

Interestingly, nail guns seem to have almost zero resale value- hard to even give them away.

HF quality has gone up, but I still wouldn't buy a roto hammer or demo hammer there.

[John C Bush]

I bought a Grex for the long pin capacity and is a great tool--but did have to replace the piston. Bought a HF pin nailer for $12 on sale and it has been my go to nailer since!! Saving the Grex for the estate sale.

[Jared Sankovich]

The HF pinner I had never set the pins deep enough. They were at best flush and about half the time were proud. I have a couple Hitachi 23g (1&3/8 and a 2") guns and both are considerably better.

[Justin Rapp]

I have a pin nailer, that wasn't from Harbor Freight but I paid like $20 something for it years ago and is most likely the equal to HF. It broke within the first few months, after about 6 or 8 uses (pin bent causing it to just jam), I fixed it without parts and it lasted for 2 more uses and it crapped out. I have since to replace it with a better tool, maybe not a grex, but a mid-range like a porter cable, bositch or the like. So far i've lived without it, improved my joinery and clamping so I haven't found a need. However i've looked at buying a new one many times thinking how much time it could save by just shooting in a few pins :)

So, if you buy the HF model, you might get lucky or you might end up spending $27.00 a few times over the next few years. Or pay $28.00, fix the better tool and use it for years!

When I first opened this post about a throw away society, I thought it was going to be a post about people wanting Ikea like furniture instead of spending money on hand built air loom pieces. I am kind of glad it was about tools! :)

[Maurice Mcmurry]

In response to the "Throw Away Society" title. The transition from flooring to "floor covering" has been confusing to me. I recently had it explained to me by a 22 year old Realtor. After my grumbling while walking "click clack" across a floating laminate floor in a high end house. She responded "Well no one wants floors that are nailed down, they are too hard to change when it's time to redecorate". I still like flooring.

[Justin Rapp]

In response to the "Throw Away Society" title. The transition from flooring to "floor covering" has been confusing to me. I recently had it explained to me by a 22 year old Realtor. After my grumbling while walking "click clack" across a floating laminate floor in a high end house. She responded "Well no one wants floors that are nailed down, they are too hard to change when it's time to redecorate". I still like flooring.

Yup - young generation wants to fill up the landfills and wants to redecorate every 5 years or so.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Somtimes cheap tools last amazingly. I bought a secondhand Craftsman spindle sander on eBay in about 2009 or 2010 and have put hundreds of hours on it since then. I had to replace the drum compression screw because the threads finally wore out on it, but other than that it has been trouble free.

[John Kananis]

I'm guilty of having paid an occasional visit to hf but I don't like buying disposable tools. If I'm buying something I don't use much, like a brad or pin nailer, I go a step off top shelf (bostitch in this case) but stay away from the off-brand. I do have a pneumatic stapler that is probably from hf (don't know the brand) but I have absolutely no clue how it ended up in my shop. Kind of magically appeared about 7 or 8 years ago.

[Tom M King]

Cameron, Did you check ebay for Senco parts for old nailers. I had an SNIV that was new in 1975 that had quit working, and I put it on a shelf and bought a new lighter weight framer. When doing a job that the lightweight was having trouble with, I found replacement firing seals on ebay, and it finished that job that required firing thousands of 3-1/2" framing nails in fine style. That was in 2016, and it's still working like a new one.

Did a bit of re-engineering in an 1850 attic. Both rafter and ceiling joist size for their span was pretty optimistic, so needed some help. Solved both problems, and raised sag out of roof with built in place trusses:

[Cameron Wood]

Cameron, Did you check ebay for Senco parts for old nailers. I had an SNIV that was new in 1975 that had quit working, and I put it on a shelf and bought a new lighter weight framer. When doing a job that the lightweight was having trouble with, I found replacement firing seals on ebay, and it finished that job that required firing thousands of 3-1/2" framing nails in fine style. That was in 2016, and it's still working like a new one.

Did a bit of re-engineering in an 1850 attic. Both rafter and ceiling joist size for their span was pretty optimistic, so needed some help. Solved both problems, and raised sag out of roof with built in place trusses:


Is that for clip head nails? I think I had one of those and hated it- it double fired constantly. Hopefully yours was better. The one I tossed was an oil-less pin nailer.
In general I have been very slow to learn that it's often not worth repairing worn power tools- over and over spending hours fixing something only to have it break further not long after.
The old Senco SFN2 finish gun is still going strong, but doesn't get out as much.

That is a beefy truss!! Did you pull the CJs up, or push from below?

[Tom M King]

There was an accesss door about 16 x 22 inches. Fortunately it was in line with back stairs so we could pull the 2x12x16 Framer Series Yellow Pine up there and assemble them in place. They are doubled on top and bottom on opposite sides of the other bracing boards. The rafters were 20' long 3x3's, and had sagged over 5". Some had broken. Tensile strength of the clear Heart Pine rafters had kept the roof from caving in.

We just held the ceiling joists where they were. Plaster was still about 50% intact, so we didn't want to redo all of it. Whole process is shown in pictures on my website at the bottom of this page: http://historic-house-restoration.com/structural.html

I've never worked on a really old house around here that didn't need some such structural work.

I got called to see if we could save that roof, and ended up getting kept there for 2 years. It's an 1850 museum house, and the newest house I've worked on since quitting building new houses in 2007.

[Dave Sabo]

im sure at some point the Sencos will fail. At that point ill take them apart clean them and get new seals and carry on.


good luck with that.

I just got a quote for a seal kit for my senco pin nailer - 95bucks:eek:

[Warren Lake]

they have over 40 years on them now and have not failed. Past I bought a Senco from an auction took it in to buy staples to be sure to get the right ones Distributor at the time said do you want us to check it?

Sign this, it has no safety on it. Told me it was used to put Ben Johnsons Jatoba floor down. They did whatever they did to it and I said what do I owe you. Nothing we make the money on the staples. Im sure in the new world service is rarely like that anymore. They were expensive first place like the Rockwell belt sander that is still going. The old guys had Senco so like most things I followed what they did. If that is the cost of a rebuild kit ill just pay it when they fail.

[Dave Sabo]

I’m like you, and came up when Senco was the best brand there was ………period. A hundred bucks kinda rubs me the wrong way for a seal kit - not full rebuild. Specially when those seals aren’t from Murica any longer. I’m leaning towards buying a new cheap gun for 25cents on the dollar, cause I know I’ll be super pissed if that seal kit doesn’t last 20 years + like the orig. did.

[Tom M King]

I started with Senco too, in 1975, and still have all the ones I bought then in use. Those are 47 years old. They've been added to since then. I don't even know how many I own. Most are Senco's. I've never had to replace a single O-ring. The only thing I've ever had to replace inside one is that firing seal in the 1975 SNIV, and it came from someone who produces them and sells them on ebay.

I have always oiled them, and the newer oil-less ones get a drop of oil every once in a while too. I always took it that they needed less oil, not no oil.

[Jim Becker]

A lot of the time, our actual, intended use really can come into play relative to "paying the piper" for the pro brand too vs going with an HFT/Craftsman/Kobalt, etc. value priced tool. It's not such a "disposable" tool when the usage is light and occasional, but certainly likely would be for heavy and constant professional use or very frequent and constant hobby use. This has been coming into play for me in recent times for sure. If one is only shooting a few hundred 23 gauge pins a month, give or take...maybe the less expensive too will do the job if certain extra features and adjustability isn't necessary.

[Cameron Wood]

I oil my nail guns very little. Too much oil is bad, IME- swells up the seals & o rings & stuff falls apart.

[Myles Moran]

Cameron - should that be happening if you're using the correct oil? My first thought is that you're getting a bad reaction between the oil and the rubber, like using the wrong grease on brake caliper slide pins.

That said I keep my oiling minimal too, a single drop each use takes care of it.

[Thomas McCurnin]

I'm with John on this, as I do not buy Harbor Freight tools with any moving parts, as they are largely junk, and when they go bad, un-repairable. So if you like the Fasco, repair it. If you don't like the Fasco, try something else. Porter Cable used to have a fine pin nailer.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I bought a Grip Right 1 1/4 inch brad nailer at Payless Cashways for $99.00 in 1989. It was a big purchase but the $300.00 Senco was out of the question. It lasted until 2018. I replaced it with a 2 inch DeWalt for $99.00 from Lowes, it lasted 1 year. I am on my 2nd DeWalt. The latest one was $79.00. I bought the DeWalt, headless, skinny Pinner too, It is a nifty tool. Also $79.00.
I just watched a youTube that shows the Marshal amplifier factory in the 1980's. The guy putting 100 upholstery staples in in 30 seconds with a Senco is a highlight.

My Senco 1/4 inch crown, 1 1/4 stapler was purchased in 1988 for around $300.00. It has been rebuilt twice. I bought two parts kits last time and have one on hand. The Grip Right Brad nailer was made by Hitachi. I scoured the web for a long time but could not find parts. Most of the ware and tear on mine has been from general carpentry. I (like Warren Lake) am trying to get away from nails and screws in the shop.

[Jim Becker]

I'm with John on this, as I do not buy Harbor Freight tools with any moving parts, as they are largely junk, and when they go bad, un-repairable. So if you like the Fasco, repair it. If you don't like the Fasco, try something else. Porter Cable used to have a fine pin nailer.

Back when it was just "Chicago Electric" tools, I would agree with that. But HFT has upped their game in recent years for sure and has multiple levels of quality. The Bauer and Hercules battery electrics, for example, are the equal of many other consumer-focused brands at this point, such as Craftsman, Kobalt and Ridgid.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I have been seeing the word "Anthropocene" in the news. It is not in our Websters Dictionary. We are living in it for sure.

[Patrick Varley]

Back when it was just "Chicago Electric" tools, I would agree with that. But HFT has upped their game in recent years for sure and has multiple levels of quality. The Bauer and Hercules battery electrics, for example, are the equal of many other consumer-focused brands at this point, such as Craftsman, Kobalt and Ridgid.

Not to derail the original conversation, but they've seemingly been phasing-out those old "cheap" badges. Harder to find the Chicago Electric or Warrior brands, and a lot of it has seemingly been on clearance recently. HF's strategy over the past 20 years is somewhat interesting (at least to me). The one thing I appreciate about the place is that I can walk into essentially any HF and have a good idea of what's going to be there, and the store sizes keep it convenient.

[Bob Cooper]

What I find HF really convenient for are things like a knockoff hole-hog or big beefy slow speed drill for the occasional use to mix thinset. Those have worked out well. If I spent all my days as an electrician needing to drill big auger bits or a tile guy working mud 6days a week a nice Milwaukee would be what I’d buy. Buy the HF works great and I instead invest in good sharp bits.

[George Yetka]

Harbor freight has its place. If your going to use a tool everyday spend money on it or if you prefer better tools spend money on it. But if you are going to use something once in a while and it doesnt need to be nasa built go for the HF to hold you over.

My buddy is a commercial fisherman and the tools he keeps on the boat are HF because whether he buys HF or Metabo his angle grinder is still going to die in the salt.

That all being said I love my grex stuff

[Gordon Dale]

I don't know where the HF nailers are manufactured, but I have two main criteria when buying tools: decent quality (greater pleasure using) and not made by totally repressive regimes. Fortunately, those criteria are almost always complimentary.

[Adam Grund]

I generally try to buy the best quality I can afford the first go around, regardless of how many times I’ll use it. Nothing irks me more than trying to use a cheapy whatever and having to work around sloppy build and tolerances.
That being said, will buy cheap stuff when I’m using the tool for anything other than it’s intended use. Screwdrivers for prybars, hacked up sockets, drywall scrapers for… everything scrapers, ect. .