Our new "replacement" for baltic birch.

[Bryan Hall]

Just saw this on the pallet today at my local lumber supplier, "white birch". Picked up a sheet to check it out and try it on an upcoming project. 13 ply, 1/2 the cost of baltic birch, smoother veneer on the top and bottom that will require less sanding. No patches either. Some small voids in initial cuts but nothing terrible. Haven't screwed, fastened, glued any of it yet to figure out how it works in comparison to BB. Obviously doesn't have the raw edge aesthetic that BB has but I don't need that. Made in Vietnam.
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[glenn bradley]

I find those super-thin veneers problematic but look forward to your "in use" experiences with it. An alternative like this would be welcome.

[Cary Falk]

How thick is the outer veneer? The thing I liked about my Baltic/Russian birch plywood was that the outer veneer was pretty thick relatively speaking. Everything else that I have looked at lately the veneer is about as thick as about half as piece of paper. It is almost impossible to sand without blowing through it. I bought a piece of maple plywood at Lowes of all places about 3 months ago that was cheaper and better grade than the shop grade maple from the wood store. I went back to Lowes last week to get another sheet and that are back to the bad stuff.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I've used some of that for cabinets, both unfinished and prefinished versions. No issues. For some reason that I haven't figured out, every sheet of "baltic birch" that I've gotten in the last 5 years or so has developed a warp when it gets to my shop. Really dry climate here usually, I'm sure it has something to do with that. The Vietnamese ply hasn't done that yet and the outside veneer looks nice. I don't sand plywood except in the finishing process, so just flattening the sealer, but I've not had a problem sanding through.

[Frank Pratt]

Are the interior veneers hardwood or softwood?

[Dave Sabo]

Looks like about 40 ply to me.

All that really matters is how does it perform and is that acceptable for the price paid.

[Jim Becker]

"Less expensive" multi-ply has been available for a long time now. I've purchased it in the past and what Glenn mentions comes into play with these materials...the surface veneers are very thin compared to BB and that came to bite me (sometimes literally with splinters) while working with it. OTOH, the 13 ply does likely have good holding power with screws, etc. I'd probably use this stuff for utility purposes, particularly where it's hidden, but not for anything that the thickness of the surface veneer would be a factor, such as jigs/fixtures that are intended to be used long term. BB really shines for that stuff.

[Bryan Hall]

Looks like about 40 ply to me.

All that really matters is how does it perform and is that acceptable for the price paid.

That's about 4 pieces cut down and sitting side by side so you're right, it's over 40 ply when stacked like that.

Agreed, does it do its job for $100 or is $200 still the right price? For my supplier, this is the first really viable alternative we've had (well other than appleply at $300 a sheet...) so I'm hopeful.

[Bryan Hall]

Are the interior veneers hardwood or softwood?

The main guy to ask wasn't at the lumberyard yesterday so I inquired with the lot staff and got all positive reviews from them. I'll learn more hopefully the next time their head is on site.

[Christian Hawkshaw]

If this is the same Vietnamese Birch that the distributor that I use has, the veneer thickness is 0.3mm. I have not tried it yet.

[Jeff Roltgen]

I have some of the 1/2" Viet-Birch in my shop right now. .30mm face veneer thickness could only be true if measured prior to production. Once they sand it down, .15 -.20 max. What this means is:

1> Darker cores are ghosted through the surface ( core material has lots of dark, green tone, so seems poplar is the likely species)
2> Gaps between substrate layers fill with glue, leaving brighter, blonder lines oriented cross-grain from the face veneer (most evident in pic.3).
Adds contrast to the ghosting mentioned in point #1
3> If you think you'll even touch this surface with sandpaper, you'll be disappointed. Since it's ghosting is evident with factory sanding, realize, it only gets worse as you sand. Take a look at the edges as you pull from the bunk- edges are already down from paper to hair thickness.
4> Durability is compromised quite a bit: paper-thin faces have zero integrity, softer core material gives way underneath, so it scratches much easier than any other ply.

First two images of items prepped very briefly/briskly with 150 grit on R/O, 3rd is a larger drop scrap, factory sanding only:

491659491660491661


So , what am I doing with it? Just didn't want to burn better part of $100 per sheet for cabinet grade ply for painted inside cabinet backs for display tops 8-9' off the floor of the room. Still, think I will next time. This stuff truly is bottom of the barrel. Otherwise, shop drawer boxes is about as far as I'd go with it. Just no durability. IMHO.

jeff

[andrew whicker]

I just bought some of this.

The yard told me it was eucalyptus on the inside. He did say tear out is likely due to the thin veneer

But 180 for a 5/8 sheet bb vs 100 for 5/8 Asian version.... worth a shot

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I have some of the 1/2" Viet-Birch in my shop right now. .30mm face veneer thickness could only be true if measured prior to production. Once they sand it down, .15 -.20 max. What this means is:

1> Darker cores are ghosted through the surface ( core material has lots of dark, green tone, so seems poplar is the likely species)
2> Gaps between substrate layers fill with glue, leaving brighter, blonder lines oriented cross-grain from the face veneer (most evident in pic.3).
Adds contrast to the ghosting mentioned in point #1
3> If you think you'll even touch this surface with sandpaper, you'll be disappointed. Since it's ghosting is evident with factory sanding, realize, it only gets worse as you sand. Take a look at the edges as you pull from the bunk- edges are already down from paper to hair thickness.
4> Durability is compromised quite a bit: paper-thin faces have zero integrity, softer core material gives way underneath, so it scratches much easier than any other ply.

First two images of items prepped very briefly/briskly with 150 grit on R/O, 3rd is a larger drop scrap, factory sanding only:

491659491660491661


So , what am I doing with it? Just didn't want to burn better part of $100 per sheet for cabinet grade ply for painted inside cabinet backs for display tops 8-9' off the floor of the room. Still, think I will next time. This stuff truly is bottom of the barrel. Otherwise, shop drawer boxes is about as far as I'd go with it. Just no durability. IMHO.

jeff

Jeff, your critique sounds like pretty much any available ply right now. I'm getting pricing in the $60s for units on this stuff. Personally I'm not expecting show grade veneers for that $, just stability and predictability. I use this stuff for cases, is someone using baltic birch for faces?

[Jamie Buxton]

Eucalyptus of various species are being grown in plantations in Vietnam, so that seems a likely core material for plywood made in Vietnam.

[Michael Burnside]

If it is eucalyptus be cautious and wear PPE. It can be poisonous and irritate the skin when cutting it.

[Jeff Roltgen]

...your critique sounds like pretty much any available ply right now.

LOL - Yeah, I know.
You should see some of the zingers that came in the pile of 3/4" D-3 USA produced birch @ close to $100 a sheet. Folded cores veneered over and sanded right through. Factories don't care a whit.



But 180 for a 5/8 sheet bb vs 100 for 5/8 Asian version.... worth a shot

Indeed. Not saying don't use it, but it just stinks when you don't really have much choice.
Used to be that higher priced material = higher quality.
Now its just a higher price and more mistakes for end user to fix or work around. Like Steve says, regardless of price or source, quality is unquestionably way down.

[Christian Hawkshaw]

This version of the plywood has a magnolia core:


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[Jim Becker]

I bought four sheets of the 23/32" Radiata pine plywood at the Orange store for some new shop building things for $60 a sheet. Although it's "soft", it's pretty much void-free and has been easy to work with today while I was cutting it on the new slider. It was within a few dollars a sheet of .75" MDF! (Photo shows factory edge, not cut edge. Sorry)

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[Jeff Roltgen]

Jim,
That is one of the top examples of "best bang for you buck" in sheet goods at this time. In my area, it's called Auroco, and appears to be supplied by the same central American company that supplies the US with Radiata pine.
Another decent option available through local Menards is simply called Sande, which is quite similar except it appears to be Luan plys. In about the same price range, but seems to have a smoother surface, which would be an advantage if you're painting or just clear coating for shop cabs.
Only catch is both appear to warp fairly easily, so process and assemble as soon as you get it in the shop!

jeff

[mike calabrese]

Here is another option Poplar ply Youtube linke here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WfM72p07EQ
mike calabrese

[Cary Falk]

I was out yester and found another plywood place, so I decided to see what they had. The 5x5 Baltic birch was $120 for 3/4, $100 for 1/2 and $60 for 1/4. It looked like good stuff. Thay had 4x8 sheets of Baltic that looked terrible with thin veneers for $160. In July at my regular place a 3/4 5x5 sheet was $150 so I don't know if that place was more expensive, or prices have come down slightly.

[andy bessette]

Baltic birch ply is assembled using exterior glue and is very fine quality. I use it in some boat building projects. What does this cheaper ply use?

[Jim Becker]

Jim,
That is one of the top examples of "best bang for you buck" in sheet goods at this time. In my area, it's called Auroco, and appears to be supplied by the same central American company that supplies the US with Radiata pine.

I will not represent that it's "perfect", but it's pretty impressive for the cost, has very thick surface veneers (which makes sanding it easier) and...I can lift it. LOL I can sometimes get "scratch and dent" sheets from Industrial Plywood for similar or less money, but this seemed like a good project material for what I wanted to do. Given how well it worked out for the window boxing, etc., for the new shop, I'll likely use it for the shop cabinetry, too. Like I said...I can actually lift it.

[Ben Ellenberger]

I will not represent that it's "perfect", but it's pretty impressive for the cost, has very thick surface veneers (which makes sanding it easier) and...I can lift it. LOL I can sometimes get "scratch and dent" sheets from Industrial Plywood for similar or less money, but this seemed like a good project material for what I wanted to do. Given how well it worked out for the window boxing, etc., for the new shop, I'll likely use it for the shop cabinetry, too. Like I said...I can actually lift it.

That Home Depot plywood is my go-to if I want to run and pick something up right away. I agree it is not great, but it is pretty good for a lot of things. I often use the 1/4” ply for drawer bottoms on projects that don’t need to be fancy.

[Bryan Hall]

I've stayed out of the orange store for a while but this thread had me look into it again. It's not budget, but I was surprised to see maple europly (15 ply) is now available through them $106 for a 2x8 sheet but that's still cheaper than appleply.

[Jim Becker]

What the home centers have is regional, Bryan. I wanted to buy the ply from the Blue store, but they didn't have the 23/32 thickness; just the three thinner versions. We've been trying to use the Blue store more for personal reasons, but some trips I have to stop at both to get everything I need. None of the home centers here carry anything close to a multi-ply like BB or the EuroPly your mention. The Radiata is something like 7 ply (guessing) but as I mentioned the face veneers are thick...like about 1mm or so...which is convenient for fitting and sanding.

[Bryan Hall]

What the home centers have is regional, Bryan. I wanted to buy the ply from the Blue store, but they didn't have the 23/32 thickness; just the three thinner versions. We've been trying to use the Blue store more for personal reasons, but some trips I have to stop at both to get everything I need. None of the home centers here carry anything close to a multi-ply like BB or the EuroPly your mention. The Radiata is something like 7 ply (guessing) but as I mentioned the face veneers are thick...like about 1mm or so...which is convenient for fitting and sanding.

Agreed, I remember the first time I want into an orange store in california and found the shelves stocked with redwood. I was shocked!

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Columbia-Forest-Products-3-4-in-x-2-ft-x-8-ft-Europly-Maple-Plywood-Project-Panel-Free-Custom-Cut-Available-3738/207004201#overlay

Is the europly that popped up. Online only and only deliverable to client homes, not the store. I see that happen frequently and it will be there for a while, then vanish. I think I pay $350 (well, I've never actually bought it) for a 4x8 sheet of that at the only other vendor I've seen carry it in town.

[Jim Becker]

I get ship to store as available on that entry, Bryan. :)

[Bryan Hall]

I get ship to store as available on that entry, Bryan. :)

Well, you're kind of a big deal Jim. :D

[Jim Becker]

Well, you're kind of a big deal Jim. :D

I just know that Professor Dr. SWMBO is doing a really big eye roll downstairs, telepathically reading that.... :o. But seriously, I do think that geography matters when it comes to what's available in-store, ship-to-store and ship-to-home.

[bill tindall]

Look into products from Columbia Forest Products, made in North Carolina. Can be ordered through Home Depot. Most if not all their plywood has hardwood interior plies. I used one of their products to build a "Cello Podium". It was 13 ply with maple core and face veneer. It was obviously dense and void free. I have also used their oak plywood with complete satisfaction.

[Justin Rapp]

Look into products from Columbia Forest Products, made in North Carolina. Can be ordered through Home Depot. Most if not all their plywood has hardwood interior plies. I used one of their products to build a "Cello Podium". It was 13 ply with maple core and face veneer. It was obviously dense and void free. I have also used their oak plywood with complete satisfaction.

I just bought a sheet of Columbia Forest Products Maple ply at HD in "3/4". I got it for a discount since they couldn't find the sanded ply even though the inventory showed over 30 in stock.

I also grabbed a 1/4 sanded ply that had some edge damaged so it was given to me at 1/2 off :)

It isn't BB or some of the better plywood available at the hardwood dealer near me but for shop-grade stuff it's just fine.

[Ray Newman]

" I do think that geography matters when it comes to what's available in-store, ship-to-store and ship-to-home."
--Jim B.

BINGO!

[Bryan Hall]

" I do think that geography matters when it comes to what's available in-store, ship-to-store and ship-to-home."
--Jim B.

BINGO!

Yep, true.

Here, europly is only available online. I've never seen it in store. Also only available in 2x4 4x4 and 2x8 sheets.