Euro guides thrust rollers GL 789's & similar, exact location & grease preferences.

[Tom Trees]

Hello
I just replied to a recent post about grease, in which there was mention of trolling, I didn't read it,
but there was mention of not to feed it, lol.

It reminded me of my bandsaw query, so might as well ask since the other post seems to have gone somewhere into the either.

For the folks whom have these Italian saws or similar, what type of grease if indeed grease, do you use for this application..
Regular vanilla or higher temp strawberry or blueberry flavour?
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https://i.postimg.cc/3r0gqDZ3/Thrust-Guide.png




Another query I've forgotten to add, is the exact location of the thrust guide roller,
Seeing as there is plenty of adjustment in these guides, just wondering what your preference is if any,
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https://i.postimg.cc/TwDDyKJj/VFD-bandsaw.jpg

I've since welded a large face onto it, so the bronze bushing isn't as rigid and smooth as it once was

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https://i.postimg.cc/vH2gY7Wg/Thrust-guide-2.png


Thanks folks.
Tom




(https://i.postimg.cc/3r0gqDZ3/Thrust-Guide.png)

[John TenEyck]

I don't have an Italian bandsaw, but if I did I would use sealed bearings whenever the factory one said it was time for a new one. No greasing required nor wanted because it attracts sawdust.

John

[Tom Trees]

Hi John
I restructured my entire post to include my other guide roller placement query, and with the added pictures might explain things better.

I wasn't aware of much about these guides when I took the ark welder to them, only learning about both at the time! :o
It wasn't until the lower roller until I realised this.

I could get replacements in time, or choose to go the sealed bearing route if I wished.
Here's a link from the North Carolina woodworker forum, regarding changing tack, mods remove if necessary, I shall describe for google searching also.
Searching for "Centauro Classico Band Saw" using google images, one might see Bob Vaughan's post.

https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/index.php?threads/centauro-classico-band-saw.61462/

Regards

Tom

[Greg Quenneville]

Those aren’t bearings in the Euro guides, they are bushings. The idea of bronze is that it is supposed to be self lubricating. I half recall something about dunking them in hot oil (which impregnates the pores in the metal) prior to assembly.

I would oil them to the extent that you are able but I haven’t a clue about what a reasonable service schedule for that would be.

I used to have a Meber 24” saw with that type of guide and now have an Agazzani 24” which I equipped with Laguna ceramic guides.

I cannot imagine a scenario where arc welding on those guides would improve them. It might be time to peruse the Carter catalog.

[Tom Trees]

Indeed they are bushings Greg, and had I seen the link many years ago, I likely would'a thought twice about it,
and perhaps not have sacrificed my bottom roller in the process.
I'd make a much cleaner job of it nowadays, using the right rods, patience and a bucket o'water,
however milling the inside of the ring would still be a challenge without machinery.

Along with it being a bit sloppy, as you can imagine from the pics, it's a bit heavier than your average 789 roller.
I've never put anything in the back, perhaps oiled it once, and normally everything gets a bit of oil or a spray of WD-40 for rust prevention.

Just thought I'd mention considering these are the heavy duty ones, so perhaps are used on the larger models again
and likely have a harder life than most on the smaller 600 machines,
so I reckon there maybe good chance of grease being used under such circumstances.

However, I'm not that keen to find out, should it spray grease everywhere :eek:

Cheers
Tom

[Jonathan Jung]

Do not lubricate them, instead, at most just polish them if they are corroded or sticking. They are bushings like others have said, the ones on my italian saw are sintered bronze bushings. Lubricating them will attract debris and make them worse in the long haul.

[Greg Quenneville]

The other thing to mention is that you can buy new replacement guides from Scott+Sargeant. https://www.scosarg.com/search-results#/embedded/query=Bandsaw%20guides&page=1&query_name=match_and

As perJoe Calhoon, a better guide is made by APA, and is available here: https://www.woodworkmachinery.co.uk/products/panhans-apa-bandsaw-guides, although you might get it cheaper from Panhans directly?

Also, to answer your question about setting the thrust guide: I first heard to use a dollar bill as a feeler gauge for that and have done so approximately ever since. Works ok but the rear guide gets a workout when the blade deflects into it*

*But: I have spent more time restoring three big bandsaws than I have using them. So what do I know?

[Tom Trees]

Cheers folks
Greg you have hit the nail on the head with your suggestion of the newer version of my APA/Panhans guides, in that it could be likely
that this is where I will find information on them.

I was pondering if my question regarding the thrust guide location was symbiotic to the "verschlusskappe"
and has practically nothing to do with the distance between it and the back of the blade.

I'll report back should I find some German articles regarding this.
Thanks

Tom

[Tom Trees]

Looking again, I see I'm mistaken regarding my title.
It should read something like...
Panhans/APA thrust rollers and similar.... :o
That would'a been more helpful, rather than mentioning the GL's, which I've never disassembled, should it be possible to do so without destruction.

It were a regular Euro guide system with GL456 or larger on the bottom guides, and there's just a regular solid shaft on those, silly me.
Perhaps the bushing is the same, and one can retrofit a GL789 or whichever size to the Panhans/APA,
I kinda presumed this might be possibly done, or perhaps at least, not that unheard of.

Suppose it is the price tag which comes with these guides which is why I haven't studied them since.:rolleyes:
Time to do some work with Google translate, and possibly see them working with lubrication, or the possibility should what Greg mentioned
it be for, would likely be a speedier process to put hot oil inside to free them up from time to time.

But...If it's actually for lubrication, then the lateral position might be very apparent in regards to speed of the heavier disc, which has a bit less 5mm of surface area.
This is the adjustment query I have,
but I'd also be interested in seeing if there's preferences regarding the 789's in this regards also.

Cheers
Tom

[Tom Trees]

Hi folks, I think I found the answer, and learned something interesting aswell.
Having looked for information on some German forums, seems these thrust rollers are to be found on Bäuerle machines
but didn't get far without an account of which I didn't persue.
I did find this APA booklet cover, but no luck trying to find the jargon on google.
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So I started looking at Hema guide rollers, which also have the cap, and found this video.
I've cut to the part concerning lubrication, and it's what looks to be a light oil which Hema sell.

What is of interest to all folks with Euro guides, is the holes in the side roller knobs,
I wasn't aware of these being lubrication points, though I likely may have treated it as such with a squirt from the can.
The video is timestamped to this bit...

https://youtu.be/VTNeA_FbNgk?t=131

So it appears that my other query be out the window, regarding the placement having much effect on things, which I presumed possibly dependent should various greases, chain oils, or other have been used, i.e getting it to spin more nicely on the wheel....possibly without too much mess, noise, or insert other factor.
The performance aspect of these suggests weight reduction being of order, which I don't think needs questioning considering the Hema are premium guides, from an established manufacturer of bandsaws, so it explains why I see all manner of machines out there with blades contacting various areas on the disc.

Even if something else may have been used in the past , I wouldn't doubt it may have been by some folk, look at Borson resaw for instance,
but I think I'm safe in saying that Hema and others making such guides, would suggest whatever their selling, which some of the PhD folks could likely easily identify
as being the type of stuff you want, well likely what most would anyways.

All the best

Tom