Switching to Metric in the shop, Is it even practical?

[Lisa Starr]

I've been making some items in our metal shop the last few days and utilizing metric dimensions. Once I got used to metric, it seems incredibly easy to use. Of course, I wouldn't be able to tell you something was 200 mm long at a glance like I can in the Imperial system but that would come with usage. For those of you that work in metric in your shop, some questions...

Did you switch to metric at some point, or did you set up your shop as metric in the first place?

If you switched, what did you do with your imperial tools? Specifically, I have an heirloom Starrett Combination Square with a set of rules 8 thru 18" that is dead accurate and of great sentimental value to me. Does this need to become an ornament or is there a way to incorporate those into a metric workflow?

Has anyone taken one of their existing rules, for example a 48" and stuck a Metric adhesive tape to one side as a temporary solution while saving money to acquire metric tools?

Any other thoughts I may have overlooked?

Thanks
Lisa

[Lee Schierer]

You can purchase new scales for your vintage combination squares (https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/rules/71653-rules-for-starrett-combination-squares).

I haven't made the switch to metric in my shop though I'm not uncomfortable working with metric.

[Alan Lightstone]

I've bought a number of Woodpeckers metric rules, T-squares, etc... Much easier to work in metric. I really wish they made a 6" metric ruler which I would use a lot.

My Felder jointer is set for metric, as is my Grizzly wide-belt. I use digital calipers in metric all the time.

That being said, the numbers don't have the intuitive meaning to me that Imperial ones do. So much for indoctrination through schooling.

The funny thing is that weight comes naturally to me in metric now after a career in medicine. But length doesn't. I intuitively have knowledge of the significance of a 210kg patient, but not that his height is 178cm.

[Richard Coers]

I was fully immersed in the metric world at Caterpillar for decades. My basement shop is all imperial. Technically we could build everything with a stick and no numbers what so ever. I'm sure the pyramids weren't done with scales with numbers on it. Pieces of string and squares maybe, but not rulers. I'm also a little old school with measurements. I need a heavy 13/16". or a light 3/4". But I always have a digital veneer caliper close by. So whatever works for you is the moral.

[Lisa Starr]

I completely understand what you're saying Richard. Having been in the machining world my entire life, even as a child, I have to work at it to not thick in thousandths of an inch. I often think of measurements as "heavy" or "light" also.

[Mel Fulks]

I don’t think you have overlooked anything. I don’t like metric and won’t use it. Sometimes I will decipher it to get data I need .
Some who use metric ignore all the increments except the millimeters. That does not impress me , indeed it makes me refuse to hire
anyone who mentions it to me. But I don’t mind if they use it on their stuff.

[David Stone (CT)]

I work in both systems, tending toward metric for woodworking/furniture and imperial for home repair things. Here is what I find useful/necessary in this context:

+ Scales on rip fence and cross cut fence set-ups that read in both imperial and metric
+ Metal rules that have both markings (Lee Valley has excellent ones).
+ One each, tape measure that's metric only, imperial only and metric+imperial
+ DROs and electronic calipers that toggle between the two systems (I think all do)
+ Combo squares with blades that read in both or squares in each (the latter is a little better since the desired markings on a blade that features both sometimes fall on the "wrong" edge or read off the "wrong" end for the work at hand).
+ Printed out table of conversions between decimal inches (measuring in thousandths), fractional inches and millimeters (measured in tenths/hundredths of millimeters). Handy.

It's basically an easy and cheap transition to make from the measuring tools standpoint. Nor is there any reason to get rid of your existing imperial stuff, as it will still be perfectly useful for many things or even preferable for some things (particularly given the reality that some supplies and much tooling will be sized to imperial standards).

[Rich Engelhardt]

Harbor Freight sells digital calipers that have both Metric and SAE.
You just push a button and go back and forth from one to the other.

The only drawback is - you have to take the battery out after you're done using it, otherwise it goes dead.

[Bryan Hall]

For me, it’s not practical. Imperial tools are more common in my realm, plus I have to discuss measurements with clients in imperial. My brain really struggles shifting back and forth, so I just lean into the imperial and try to imagine that there’s no better way.

[Warren Lake]

I see in thous. Though glasses needed and introduce new grief. Easy to see a number on a tape and how much under or over it is over a fine line and see it in thous and be pretty close. Easier still on the metal rulers, one that was my grandfathers lines are super fine.

[Edward Weber]

I was fully immersed in the metric world at Caterpillar for decades. My basement shop is all imperial. Technically we could build everything with a stick and no numbers what so ever. I'm sure the pyramids weren't done with scales with numbers on it. Pieces of string and squares maybe, but not rulers. I'm also a little old school with measurements. I need a heavy 13/16". or a light 3/4". But I always have a digital veneer caliper close by. So whatever works for you is the moral.

We used to call them fat or skinny, light or heavy, whatever got the point across.
To me, it doesn't't matter at all. I've worked with both, the only time it's irritating, is when you have both on the same machine, vehicle or piece of equipment. Then it can be a PITA.

[Rob Luter]

I have no use for Metric. I work in Imperial and my brain thinks in Imperial. When someone gives me a metric dimension I have to convert it in my head to get a feel for how big it is. Since I was in college I've worked in decimal inches and that's plenty accurate. Some say that Metric is easier to work with than fractions because of the base 10 math. I don't disagree. On the other hand, when you memorize all your decimal equivalents you don't need fractions.

[Warren Lake]

The areolith buggatti was scaled off the gas cap if I remember correctly. This panel is 25 gas caps long

[Mel Fulks]

I’m looking forward to going to England even though I don’t know when that’s gonna happen. While I’m there I will not tease them about
driving on the wrong side of road. The way we do it should be the world standard, that would make sense. But I’m just not a but-in-ski. l
respect the way other countries do stuff. English is the language of the world, but I’m tolerant of the few holdouts and never make. fun of
them or demand they conform. Just trying to live right and serve as an ambassador of tolerance.

[roger wiegand]

I fully converted the shop (well except for some drills) about two years ago after decades of half and half. Wished I'd done it long ago. Decimal inches would probably work just as well, but none of the tooling I have does that easily. 50 year of lab work and I think first in metric for length, weight and volume at least. Other units are a mixed bag. I seriously don't miss dividing 17/32 by three.

My one strong piece of advice is never convert units. Work in one system or the other. Conversion is so fraught with error it's just not worth doing. If the plans are in inches I either draw new plans for a similar item in metric or work in inches. Just ask the space telescope guys how conversion goes.

In terms of thinking, a centimeter is about the width of your (pick the appropriate one) finger, and a meter is about as long as your arm. A tall beer can is around 500 ml. You don't need much more than that.

[Jared Sankovich]

I use decimal inches once it's within the typically dial caliper range.

I can generally convert back and forth between metric and imperial in my head, but I think in imperial distances.

[Derek Cohen]

If you begin using European machines, such as Felder and Hammer, you may wish to graduate to Metric as this is their standard measure and it is easier to carry this through all components. Boards are thicknessed to 10 or 12 or 20mm, whatever, and this will influence how you measure length and width. Eventually, you will be working exclusively in Metric.

Imperial and Metric can co-exist, but this can get expensive.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ralph Okonieski]

English units were all that I had used, but have been slowly converting to metric. I bought a Starrett tape with Inches and cm (mm) on the same tape so can use either one for measurements. The scale on the saw is both inches and cm. The planer is both but I only use inches on the DRO. It is a work in progress; I may never fully convert. We shall see.

[Phil Gaudio]

I hate metric. I have a Festool router and every time I use it I curse the metric system: it, unfortunately, is equipped with a metric scale. OK: I will temporarily move to the metric world when using Blum Hinges, but beyond that, I live in a world of 16ths, 32nds, and 64ths.

[Chris Parks]

I hate metric. I have a Festool router and every time I use it I curse the metric system: it, unfortunately, is equipped with a metric scale. OK: I will temporarily move to the metric world when using Blum Hinges, but beyond that, I live in a world of 16ths, 32nds, and 64ths.

I hate imperial just as you hate metric, the world has gone metric and slowly but surely metric is being assimilated into the US which is the major imperial country not to go metric. I did fractions at school and thank god that Australia went metric and I no longer need them. The UK is a bit confused on metric but that does not surprise me at all as the change will happen there as a generational one when those that were educated in imperial pass on, this has been the case in Oz. As for thinking in metric it is not something that is easily changed when your education was imperial based, been there and got the T shirt.

[Jim Becker]

This topic always brings up some "opinions"...some of them strong.

That said, I switched to metric in the shop a few years ago and I absolutely enjoy the sanity that it brought to my work, even though I'm still occasionally mentally translating some larger dimensions (approximates) to visualize things. Even my CNC work is designed in metric unless there's a specific reason to use decimal inches...less likely now that I'm not really doing work for others.

All my metal rules were already dual scale, I have metric rules for my combo squares and similar, my major power tools all have dual scales, my Festool gear is metric as it was purchased before they started dancing with the devil in North America :D, etc. So there really wasn't much to change or acquire for me. You can get metric scales for your Starrett gear no problem which means you can easily and quickly switch if the need arises and you don't lose your existing investment.

It's already been said in the thread, but keep a project to one measuring system. Converting back and forth in the same project can lead to headaches.

Oh, someone else also mentioned woodworking in metric and home improvement in inches. I resemble that remark. Building materials are what they are in our geography.

[Wes Grass]

I don't really care, inch or metric. I default to inch, as that's what the screws on my machines are. And the CNC doesn't matter.

What really gets me cranked is Excel, and the online calculators I try to use, defaulting angle calculations to Radians.

???????

Yeah, great idea, use dimensions that are irrational. I think maybe a great idea for calculating stuff that's spinning, but simple trig for a bolt circle or CNC code?

(Al Bundy) 'Somebody shoot me .. '

[Harold Patterson]

Decimal inches for me but I wonder if it wouldn’t make sense to change to metric as finding rules and tapes in decimal inches is not very easy.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I made it my 2020 New Years resolution and made the switch. To your point, I still cannot visualize a length in metric, i.e. that's about 3' 6" or 30" high, metric longer than 12" and I need to reference imperial.

But when making things, once I visualize one of the dimensions in inches, convert that to metric, everything else is done in metric.

I switched over most of my machine scales from imperial to metric, bought a few new rulers and tape measures and that's been it.

I actually prefer it now as all measurements are just a whole number and not Inches and fraction.

I do everything in millimeters.

[Rollie Meyers]

In 2006 went to Germany for the 1st time, in wandering through a home improvement store noticed that the galvanized pipe & fittings were fractional, copper & plastic pipe was metric as I expected, but to see non metric pipe in Europe was a surprise.

[Greg Quenneville]

I am old enough to have been raised in Imperial, but mostly changed to metric when that happened in Canada* That said, I still use decimal inches on the metal working machines, still use feet and inches for people measurements, nautical miles and feet at work.

And I just assume that the 100 speed limit signs mean mph. That’s right, isn’t it?

In general, it’s easier to stack dimensions in metric, or decimal inches. All of the magic happens when fractions get simplified, regardless of the base unit of measurement.

Its basic math, and math is just a way of describing the world. There is no correct system.

*In Canada, bacon, among other things, comes in metric: 454gram packages (=one pound)

[Grant Wilkinson]

No offence meant, Greg, but in the day to day world of things in Canada, we are hybrid - to put it politely.

We do buy bacon in grams. However, we buy 4 x 8 sheets of 3/4" MDF. (In actual fact, the sheets are 49" x 97" x 19mm) We buy 8 foot 2 x 4's. Wood screws are 6, 8 and 10 gauge, 1", 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" long. Ceiling tiles are 2' x 4'. So, it's near impossible to convert my shop to metric, even it I wanted to.

[Jared Sankovich]

If you begin using European machines, such as Felder and Hammer, you may wish to graduate to Metric as this is their standard measure and it is easier to carry this through all components. Boards are thicknessed to 10 or 12 or 20mm, whatever, and this will influence how you measure length and width. Eventually, you will be working exclusively in Metric.

Imperial and Metric can co-exist, but this can get expensive.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I think that is completely dependent on the machine having a digital [or digit] readout, and in the case of digital, not having a metric/imperial switch.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

The areolith buggatti was scaled off the gas cap if I remember correctly. This panel is 25 gas caps long

That's a neat factoid! Adds some credence to my perspective too. I work with a crew of guys, and it's kind of like the old telephone game at times. Framer yells "16 3/16" to the saw helper, who tells the saw operator "16-3" who cuts it 15 3/8 because the first inch of his tape is so wore out that he's using the 1" mark to start and forgets to add 1" and -3 means something different to him.

Doesn't matter a bit how long you say something is, just as long as all involved are speaking the same language. Not many tradesmen who speak metric in my area.

[Curt Harms]

For one thing, metric fasteners can be found but there's usually a premium for them, thanks Hillman. British discussion web sites often (usually) use miles and feet/inches. I imagine Grant has it right, the western world will be a hybrid for the foreseeable future. I can get along with most metric measures except power. Using watts as a measure of internal combustion engine output still seems foreign.

[Mike King]

I'm transitioning to metric. The transition is made much easier with the use of digital stops and readouts on my fence, thicknesser, calipers, etc. but these also greatly enhance my accuracy and repeatability. I just reset my planer to metric. Other things that help are dual scale rules and a unit conversion app on the iPhone.

[roger wiegand]

It seems perhaps the world is divided into those who naturally think in terms of halves, quarters, etc, and those who think in tenths, or percentages (eg a 1-100 scale). Hadn't thought about that before, there's an argument to be made for each. I'm mostly in the second camp, but have to admit I cut my oranges in half. When cutting watermelon I definitely think in terms of 2, 3, or 4 cm slices.

In the kitchen going over to weighing ingredients (in grams) vs volume measurement (in cups or teaspoons) has made me a much more consistent baker. And making 1-1/2 recipes worth of something no longer requires much thought.

[Jeff Roltgen]

I think it's too late for me. Acquired a CNC 12 years ago, and began thinking in imperial decimals. This lead to thousandths in accuracy as I draft, measure thicknesses and even widths with digital calipers. All the while, decimal/fractional equivalents have been burning clearer into my mind. Fortunately, in Sketchup, I can draft in the imperial system, yet, for instance, dictate "2.5mm" radius to draw in 5mm holes and their metric spacing without a complete conversion of the model as I work with the European hardware.

Then came my discovery of the wonders of European machines. However, since they were purchased through US dealers, spindles are 1.25" diameter, arbor on saw 1", scaled to imperial. Yes, one can change out analog scales, but what of digital motorized height readouts? Buy replacement spindles and arbor? New DRO module?

Perhaps, for me, the conversion to decimal thinking is as close as I'll get to the "simplicity" of metrics.

The whole thing feels more to me like a Mac vs. PC type of discussion.

They're just numbers, so if you're at ease with your current system and develop a habit of staying focused on accuracy, it may be simpler to stay the course.


YMMV

jeff

[Wes Grass]

I just assume that the 100 speed limit signs mean mph. That’s right, isn’t it?

Only on rural 2 lanes ;-)

I spent 2 weeks driving all over Scotland. Distances in miles, gas sold by the Liter. That little car I had got *TERRIBLE* gas mileage.

I'm pretty sure nautical miles would mess me up though. Probably easier to adapt to Km at this point in my life.

I ordered all my Felder stuff in inches, other than the shaper spindle. But the 'Parallel Cut' attachment was (is?) only available with a metric scale. No big deal, and I could probably find an insert of some sort if it starts being an annoyance.

My last job, I worked with several 'canucks'. None of them seemed to have any issue working with inches, and yeah, 4x8 sheets of plywood or MDF were a normal thing for them as well.

[Ken Kortge]

Lisa, I am in the process of moving my woodworking from imperial to metric. My reasoning was that none of the lumber or plywood is dimensionally as labeled anyway, so I have to measure and/or cut to needed size anyway.

First, live in a world of millimeters at first. Later talking in centimeters and meters may get easier.

Formulas, if needed (not sure why):
mm = inches × 25.4
inches = mm / 25.4

For general planning:
1x4: 19 x 89 mm
2x3: 38 x 64 mm
2x4: 38 x 89 mm
2x6: 38 x 140 mm

Plywood (rounded)
4x8 feet: 1219 x 2438 mm (1220 x 2440 mm)
1/4": 5.5 mm (6 mm)
3/8": 8.7 mm (9 mm)
1/2”: 11.9 mm (12 mm)
5/8": 15.1 mm (15 mm)
3/4": 18.3 mm (18 mm)

For your combination square, as others have said, almost certainly you can get new metric rulers (150 mm is similar to 6 inches; 300 mm is similar to 12 inches). I bought blemished PEC combination & double squares from Taylor Tools and bought the appropriate metric rulers.

Get a good metric tape measure. The FastCap True32 metric tape is very nice (about 16 foot - 32 refers to it having marks for a 32 mm cabinet system). I don't recommend using combo imperial/metric measuring tools - live in the metric world, but FastCap also has a good combo tape measure useful for fast planning & converting (my table saw is 36 inches tall - how tall in mm does my outfeed table need to be?)

Taylor Tools sells metric rulers, if needed.

If you want set-up blocks, Lee Valley sells a decent Veritas metric set.

Honestly, the only measuring tool I haven't found in metric (in the U.S.) is a wooden folding ruler with the metal extension - used to measure inside dimensions.

I don't worry much about using commonly available imperial dowels, drill bits, forstner bits, and router bits. Just use whatever works best. Same with nails & screws.

Oh, and I can't find anything about metric angles (just kidding). Metric squares don't exist.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Do metric tape rules have red diamonds @ .4064 meters?

[Lisa Starr]

Thank you, Ken, for your detailed response.

As several have mentioned, I can probably purchase new rules for my Starrett Combo Heads, but it will be a fairly pricey endeavor. I could probably get by with fewer rules than I have now, but would really miss the 18", if I didn't have a similar replacement.

I totally understand that I need to commit to the metric world and not constantly convert numbers. It introduces error and defeats the reason for switching to metric in the first place.

Some of my rules are already 10th of a inch ruled on one side and I'm used to working in decimals, so I may have to look harder at that option. Haven't looked, but I imagine Woodpecker won't offer things like my 16 x 24 square in that type of rule, but will offer metric.

I use .03937 as my conversion factor, inches/factor = mm or mm*factor = inches. but imagine the results are the same.

[Jim Becker]

Something else to consider, Lisa...in a good bit of woodworking, your overall dimensions are whatever they are in the measuring scale you choose to use. All the intermediate parts really need to be sized by "actual" to account for variances in materials, etc. Example...a stretcher or component between two others. I cut it proud and then "sneak up on it". That doesn't require measuring; just careful cutting of the component.

[Wes Grass]

Do metric tape rules have red diamonds @ .4064 meters?

LOL.

Older Canadian I worked with told me plans submitted for building a house had to be metric to get approved. Stud spacing, 400mm. And then the builder had to make them 16" so the drywall would line up.

I used to use .03937, but switched to 25.4 just because it's fewer digits to punch in. It's also *exact*, since they changed the inch to a metric standard, although .03937 is closer to perfect than anybody in the real world needs.

If I have to use Meters instead of MM, 39.37 is simpler to remember than how many digits/decimals am I dealing with.

[Cameron Wood]

I fully converted the shop (well except for some drills) about two years ago after decades of half and half. Wished I'd done it long ago. Decimal inches would probably work just as well, but none of the tooling I have does that easily. 50 year of lab work and I think first in metric for length, weight and volume at least. Other units are a mixed bag. I seriously don't miss dividing 17/32 by three.

My one strong piece of advice is never convert units. Work in one system or the other. Conversion is so fraught with error it's just not worth doing. If the plans are in inches I either draw new plans for a similar item in metric or work in inches. Just ask the space telescope guys how conversion goes.

In terms of thinking, a centimeter is about the width of your (pick the appropriate one) finger, and a meter is about as long as your arm. A tall beer can is around 500 ml. You don't need much more than that.



Those are some skinny fingers!

[Wes Grass]

And long arms. I'm only 27" ... substandard there too.

And who drinks beer from a can? What radii can I check with a 12oz bottle?

[Earl McLain]

I must admit, i snickered several posts up when @Jim Becker mentioned working with construction lumber in being Imperial. Let's see...a 2 x 4 is 1.5" x 3.5" (more or less, adjusted for warp & wane). The once we get to the 2 x 8, we have to adjust to 7.25". Granted, we don't normally have to put those edge-to-edge so that helps.

Just always strikes me as funny!! Until i have to sister up a header on a 2 x 8 stud wall!!
earl

[Mel Fulks]

And long arms. I'm only 27" ... substandard there too.

And who drinks beer from a can? What radii can I check with a 12oz bottle?

I’ll tell you who drinks beer from a can ! A guy who knows that when he used to throw glass bottles out of his car window, he got a lot of flat tires !

[Brian Holcombe]

I like it for fasteners and wrenches but not at all for building. Decimal inches are great for high precision and fractional inches for lower resolution work like construction. For precision in the construction world I typically work with a story stick rather than measurements.

[Howard Rosenberg]

Interesting question.

We went metric in Canada the year I got my driver's license.

If you tell me something is 6 miles away, I have no idea of how to gauge that. But I DO get what 10 kilometres feels like...

It's 100F outside. Cold? Hot? No idea. But tell me it's pushing 40C, I'll flash back to my years of living in Tel Aviv and feel reeeeeeally bad for you.......

Buy a quart of something? Ummm, that's +/- a litre, right?

Anything longer than 5 milimetres? Not a chance! Working on a 1.07 meter-long project? Cue blank empty stare....
But tell me you're working on something 42 and 1/8 inches long? Yep. Got it.

Obviously my biases are inconsistent - that's why I'd suggest metric might be useful for short measurements. Longer ones? Not so much.

[Jim Dwight]

The only thing that bothers me about these discussions is when metric users want to say they have already won and imperial will die out. Might be true but it is egotistical. Pretty much the same thing as saying their chosen system is better. There is no better and worse, they both work fine. But forcing people to use a system that makes no sense to them can lead to issues. Especially when drafting is done in computers, it is super easy to just get your preferred dimensions on the final drawing you use.

The one Festool power tool I own is a domino and I love it. My shop is small and it takes up a lot less space than the hollow chisel I used to use. Plus it is faster and more accurate. But until somebody starts offering cutters in imperial, I am stuck with metric mortises and tenons. Not a big deal. They work just as well. But it does take a little more time since the metric dimensions are meaningless to me.

Other than my domino I work in imperial. I like airguns, however, and they come mainly from the far east or Europe so they are described with metric dimensions. I think in metric more for my airguns than for woodworking. I can do it but I only use metric if I have to.

[Alex Zeller]

I must admit, i snickered several posts up when @Jim Becker mentioned working with construction lumber in being Imperial. Let's see...a 2 x 4 is 1.5" x 3.5" (more or less, adjusted for warp & wane). The once we get to the 2 x 8, we have to adjust to 7.25". Granted, we don't normally have to put those edge-to-edge so that helps.

Just always strikes me as funny!! Until i have to sister up a header on a 2 x 8 stud wall!!
earl

It's even funnier than that. Hardwood is sold in quarters. You don't buy rough cut wood 1" thick, you buy using the quarter system. You buy 4/4 (4 quarter) to make 3/4" S2S boards. For those of you who live in the metric world what replaces the quarter system? What would be the equal to 5/4 rough cut? 32mm?

[Mark e Kessler]

I use both in the shop, it feels quite natural for me that way. My planer and saw are both full digital, the planer I prefer Metric as it is easier for me to hit a number while moving the table as opposed to trying for 0.459 for example. The saw i like the height in metric and the flip stops, ripstop in fractions however they can be switched to Metric or decimal inches on the fly and very quickly, I do switch to metric when the dimensions get tricky. My WideBelt is in decimal inches which I am fine with. I mostly design, draw and build in imperial. However I have found with an all digital saw tuned and calibrated properly (and planer) I hardly have to measure part to part or “parts” that often for other than a quick check if i forget where i am.

[Greg Quenneville]

It's even funnier than that. Hardwood is sold in quarters. You don't buy rough cut wood 1" thick, you buy using the quarter system. You buy 4/4 (4 quarter) to make 3/4" S2S boards. For those of you who live in the metric world what replaces the quarter system? What would be the equal to 5/4 rough cut? 32mm?

I bought approx 4000 lb ft (9 cubic metres) of North American wood for our house and it all came in fat 40mm rough boards, which isn’t quite 7/4. My previous local hardwood purchases were at a rural mill in Tasmania and those boards were approx 5/4 but not sold that way.

[Myk Rian]

You'll always find a use for metric, especially if you have to work on a bicycle or a car. I have tool cabinets for both. I gave a dozen dual scale tape measures for Xmas presents last year. 2 years ago it was dual scale dial calipers.

[Chris Parks]

You'll always find a use for metric, especially if you have to work on a bicycle or a car. I have tool cabinets for both. I gave a dozen dual scale tape measures for Xmas presents last year. 2 years ago it was dual scale dial calipers.

I was working on cars in both the imperial and now metric age so I have tools for both and the imperial are split into AF and Whitworth just to complicate things further. My son decided he too wanted to be a technician and life was much simpler, metric only and no 1/2" sockets at all. I find it amusing the socket sets are metric but the drive size is imperial!! TV's and tyres are a bit mixed up as well, tyres are specified in metric for width but imperial for wheel size. Industry, (aviation apart??) have gone metric and I recall the US auto makers telling the government that if the US did not go metric they were changing over anyway and they did.

[Brian Holcombe]

Most manufacturing is metric from what I can tell.

[Jim Becker]

Most manufacturing is metric from what I can tell.

Yes, that's happened over time, especially in a global marketplace, which is understandable. While the measuring system we individual use for our various pursuits doesn't really matter as long as we're comfortable with it and it works for us, "global cooperation" kinda requires one system.

[Wes Grass]

Previous comment about defaulting to decimal using a dial caliper...

'Somebody' had one in fractional inch. I couldn't make any sense of it at all.

[Steve Demuth]

Previous comment about defaulting to decimal using a dial caliper...

'Somebody' had one in fractional inch. I couldn't make any sense of it at all.

I use a Starrett fractional inch caliper all the time in the woodshop. It gives me readings to 1/128" of an inch (interpolated from 64ths on the dial). One of my favorite tools.

[Steve Demuth]

The only thing that bothers me about these discussions is when metric users want to say they have already won and imperial will die out. Might be true but it is egotistical. Pretty much the same thing as saying their chosen system is better. There is no better and worse, they both work fine. But forcing people to use a system that makes no sense to them can lead to issues.

I agree that neither is inherently better for the individual. The fact that one is an international standard really does say something for building tools based on that standard, and shifting away from the idiosyncrancies of the other.

[Jim Becker]

'Somebody' had one in fractional inch. I couldn't make any sense of it at all.
My first caliper was a dial with fractions...years ago. I only use digital now and it does inch fractions, inch decimal and metric. I never use the fractional setting unless it's measuring a drill bit or something. :)

[Halgeir Wold]

I’ve said it before and say it again…it is all about what you are and/or get used to….
I grew up with metrics, but I and others old geezers like me still refer to construction lumber in inches, - Even if it has gone fully metric decades ago, and I do know the exact metric dimensions very well…….
A lot of plumbing fittings Are still referred to in inches, although modern compression conduit and fittings are all in millimeters
I’m just about to retire from over 40 years in space and geophysics related electronics, where everything has ben a mish-mash of metrics and imperial, - I just don’t care… I quite simply got used to it…..

[Terry Therneau]

Yes, it is what you get used to. I use either in my shop, though I am trying to move towards a story stick. But for midsize distances, like the size of a house lot, I still see things best in rods --- the result of running a lot of farm machinery on plots of land with rows that were 40, 80 or 120 rods long; an acre is 160 square rods. (My house sits on a 10 rod by 20 rod parcel.) One funny fact is that the portages in the Boundary Waters Canoe area are still noted in rods on the maps; there can't be very many paddlers for which this is a natural unit.

Terry

[Randy Heinemann]

I apologize if I'm repeating other posters viewpoints, but I confess that there are just too many responses for me to read. When I bought my first Festool, before they began equipping North American tools with imperial markings, I decided to try metric. This was reinforced by taking a couple of Festool classes from Brian Sedgely at Festool who is an enthusiasitc metric proponent (enthusiastic period). I don't disagree that metric measurements are easier to work with in some ways, especially when finding the center or dividing them up. However, given that by the time I bought my first Festool and took the classes, I had about 30 years of woodworking using imperial measurements, the whole effort was soon abandoned in favor of returning to imperial. It was just more comfortable for me after spending my first 50+ years of life and 30 years of woodworking using them. Then, take into account that woodworking, for me, is intendend to be a relaxing, enjoyable activity, as free of mistakes as possible, I just feel that all of us should just use what we feel the most comfortable using. I think that all the Festools I own have metric scales. Mostly that doesn't matter since, when routing or cutting depths, I don't usually measure but rather use what I'm trying to fit to gauge the correct depth. So, my suggestion is, don't worry about using metric or imperial just use what works for you and makes the whole effort enjoyable. It's just more relaxing and productive for me.

[Wes Grass]

I've got an image in my head of 2 pointers, a red one for fractions and black for decimal. Geared to rotate at different rates,.1" for decimal, and ??? for fraction.

Making my head spin thinking about it.

[Edward Weber]

Switching measuring systems is fine if that makes you happy and helps your work. I will caution that there is almost no way of a complete conversion here in the states. Along with all the items mentioned, like measuring rules and machine scales, there is hardware. You can not always get the hardware you need, whether it be hinges, catches, screws or bolts, in the metric version.
Quick example
You can build a cabinet using metric measurements, but the pulls you like may only come in imperial mounting widths. At some point there is always a little conversion to be done.
It can often be the small things that catch you up.

[roger wiegand]

I guess I don't think of things like cabinet pulls as being either English or metric, they simply are whatever they are, and you measure from the actual object to place them. I never (at least not anymore) believe the measurement on the package or specification in any event, I mark the holes from the pull, hinge, or whatever piece of hardware itself. If I need a measurement I measure it, hopefully with the same scale or caliper that I'm going to use to transfer the measurement. Doesn't matter whether the ruler is English or metric. When I'm designing I tend to use whole centimeters, but I don't expect manufactured objects to ever be an integral number of either mm or inches.

A story stick beats a ruler pretty much every time for speed, accuracy, and ease of use. In the world of CNC that all has to change, but OTOH the CNC machine really doesn't care if the dimension is 1 inch or centimeter or 1.057 inches or centimeters; it's the humans who have a thing for integers.

[Joel Gelman]

I use both. For certain machines like European shapers, hard to avoid metric. I have DRO for my stops for my chop saw that can go decimal to metric. Same with my table saw cross cut fence. An example of where I would use metric... I have a cabinet opening and want to install a Blum drawer where the drawer has to be 10 mm less wide than the interior opening. I take an inside measurement using a ProScale caliper, subtract 10mm, and set that as my measurement for the drawers. Way easier than dealing with fractions.

[Greg Quenneville]

By the way, whenever I have to convert drawings, as I did recently to build a fireplace, I now just ask Siri “convert x inches to millimetres”. It understands fractions if you ask it nicely too.

[Larry Frank]

For me, I do not think it would make any difference in my accuracy while building. It would cost me a bunch for some new tools. I also think I would make mistakes while I was converting.

For me, it would be a hassle without much benefit.

[Chris Parks]

Other than my domino I work in imperial. I like airguns, however, and they come mainly from the far east or Europe

Referring to the Middle East sounds so colonial and old school to me and I smile every time I read it for some reason as I don't see it written that way very often these days.

[Ronald Blue]

I've been working with both for virtually all my working life. I'm 65 now. Conversion of dimensions hasn't been a big deal. I still do all woodworking in Imperial. While still working there was metric in some areas and still plenty of things using Imperial. Rail gauge is still set at 56 and 1/2" and not 1435 mm or 143.5 cm. There are some nice things about the metric system. You don't need a chart for tap drill size. Just subtract the pitch from the diameter. So a 10mm by 1 mm pitch bolt needs a 9 mm tap drill. I still smile when I grab the 19 mm socket and 1/2" drive ratchet. It will be many many years before Imperial is completely gone. As long as you are comfortable with the method you use it's all good.

[Jim Becker]

I am SO ready to get back to working in metric now that the shop building construction is all but complete...