Bandsaw blade for brazilian rosewood

[jim mills]

I was approached by someone looking to have some Brazilian rosewood guitar sets resawed. They attempted to saw them on a 14" laguna bandsaw with a resaw king blade. After only a couple marginally successful attempts, the blade started throwing teeth, and drifting terribly. I have a 36" Oliver cast iron frame bandsaw, and plenty of experience resawing, but never old-growth rosewood. This stuff feels like iron!
They have offered to purchase the appropriate blade of my choice, and pay me for my time. There is enough wood here for about 50 guitar sides, backs, and necks. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[Erik Loza]

Blades I would choose for that task, in order of cost.

1.) Lenox Tri-master
2.) Lenox Woodmaster CT
3.) Lenox Die-master II

Hope this helps,

Erik

[Mike Cutler]

1” Lennox Tri-Master. 3Tpi Vari pitch blade.
If they’re paying for the blade, go top shelf.

[Andrew Hughes]

What ever blade is chosen if you occasionally clean the oils and resins from blade it will last longer. I bet that’s what smoked the resaw king the longer the blade the better. I’ve used a block of white oak and compressed air when it’s really bad I have a organic solvent that works really good but takes more time. There always a chance of getting the blade too soapy if you try.
My vote is also the woodmaster ct.
good Luck

[John TenEyck]

I wonder if the reason the Resaw King died an early death was because of the low clearance between the teeth and band and the oily sawdust wasn't cleared from the kerf. If so, a blade with higher clearance would be the logical choice.

[jim mills]

I wonder if the reason the Resaw King died an early death was because of the low clearance between the teeth and band and the oily sawdust wasn't cleared from the kerf. If so, a blade with higher clearance would be the logical choice.

Unfortunately I know little about their attempt to re-saw. Their guitars are quite nice, but they were buying the pre-sawn sets. The fact that they struggled so badly had me concerned. They said the wood was nearly impossible to saw.

[jim mills]

I wonder if the reason the Resaw King died an early death was because of the low clearance between the teeth and band and the oily sawdust wasn't cleared from the kerf. If so, a blade with higher clearance would be the logical choice.
I'm thinking it was bad setup. He said the teeth would break off at the moment of contact with the wood. He could tell because he could see the tooth fly off when it contacted the wood. Once a tooth was lost, the adjacent teeth would come off next. I'm guessing they got frustrated & started overfeeding the wood.

[jim mills]

1” Lennox Tri-Master. 3Tpi Vari pitch blade.
If they’re paying for the blade, go top shelf.

About $500 for a 20' blade! I'm hoping there is some left left on the blade after this job is done.

[Andrew Hughes]

It could be the wood wasn’t prepared properly and the saw wasn’t setup. I’ve resawed Gabon ebony with a resaw king when I had a Lt 16. What I found not to have the end of the blank off the table it would grab and flex the throat plate.
i also made sure the rear thrust bearing were very close to the back of the blade and contact at the same time. This avoids self feeding.
Hands down ebony and Eucalyptus are the nastiest woods I’ve worked.
Good Luck

[Edward Weber]

I'm thinking it was bad setup. He said the teeth would break off at the moment of contact with the wood. He could tell because he could see the tooth fly off when it contacted the wood. Once a tooth was lost, the adjacent teeth would come off next. I'm guessing they got frustrated & started overfeeding the wood.

I would say a blade with higher tooth count is in order.
Using a 3 tpi blade on an extremely hard, dense wood is not going to do it.
If a tooth is breaking off, it's trying to take too much of a bite that it can not handle. A higher tpi will be slower, but you'll get a better quality cut.
Brazilian Rosewood is endangered after all, and it is in limited supply in the U.S.
Get a couple of blades and do some tests, you don't want to waste it
JMO

[Wes Grass]

Disclaimer: I have never tried this free handing anything through a vertical bandsaw, and would never try it with regards to cutting metal.

Old machine shop trick for large material in a horizontal cutoff saw. Round stock gets cut for awhile, and rotated to reduce the cut width. Flat stock, trailing edge is elevated so the cut runs diagonal through it. Either a bar underneath, or a plate clamped to the jaw above to wedge it against depending on width to thickness ratio.

So I'm visualizing a pair of sleds, or maybe just one, that props the piece up at an angle. Cut halfway, or whatever it will stand, and clear the material below the first cut with it flat on the table. Rinse and repeat ...

[John K Jordan]

... He said the teeth would break off at the moment of contact with the wood. …

This makes me wonder of the guides were not set correctly.

For example if the guides were set too far forward (too close to the teeth) and there was too much gap between the back of the blade and the thrust bearing (on either the upper, lower, or both guides) then contact with the wood could push the blade back and cause the teeth to contact the guides.

And if the blade tension was set too low that might contribute to the problem.

JKJ

[Tom M King]

$500 is a small fraction of the value of that wood. I would try another Resaw King just to try to avoid losing any more of the wood than possible, but on someone elses' saw than the one they had trouble with. I would also prefer a power feeder.

[John TenEyck]

This makes me wonder of the guides were not set correctly.

For example if the guides were set too far forward (too close to the teeth) and there was too much gap between the back of the blade and the thrust bearing (on either the upper, lower, or both guides) then contact with the wood could push the blade back and cause the teeth to contact the guides.

And if the blade tension was set too low that might contribute to the problem.

JKJ

I wondered the same thing after reading that. I can't imagine the teeth on a carbide blade shearing off from hitting wood. Metal, yes.

John

[Edward Weber]

There are too many variables to factor to know what happened on the original failed cuts.
TPI, spacing, height, rake angle, tension feed rate/pressure and so on, not to mention the saw setup.
Forget what failed before and start fresh.
In my experience, many tropical hardwoods cut more like soft metals (aluminium & brass) than wood. Just something to consider.

[jim mills]

There are too many variables to factor to know what happened on the original failed cuts.
TPI, spacing, height, rake angle, tension feed rate/pressure and so on, not to mention the saw setup.
Forget what failed before and start fresh.
In my experience, many tropical hardwoods cut more like soft metals (aluminium & brass) than wood. Just something to consider.
Agree. I think I will get an appropriate blade, set it up on my saw, and cautiously have at it. About the only thing I can think of close to the hardness of this wood is some Ipe I resawed a couple times, and I had no problem at all.

[John K Jordan]

…
Forget what failed before and start fresh.
In my experience, many tropical hardwoods cut more like soft metals (aluminium & brass) than wood. Just something to consider.


My experience: I have cut many, many tropical hardwoods on my two shop bandsaws with several different blade types (including expensive carbide blades), a variety of species, and a variety of conditions such as resawing and otherwise cutting very thick wood, wet and dry, Brazilian and other rosewoods and some much harder and far more dense such as lignum vitae, ipe, and african blackwood.

All cut easily, some required cutting slower than others. I’ve never imagined comparing any of them to cutting aluminum or brass, which I also have experience with. To break off or otherwise damage bandsaw teeth is not something i’ve ever had the misfortune of doing (besides the time I cut into an embedded railroad spike on the Woodmizer or cut through rocks embedded in manzanita root burls.)

It would be easy to just forget what happened to the first people and move on but I think it might be kind to give them some ideas so they might find and correct the problem.. Something was definitely wrong.

BYW, I have more manzanita root burls if someone nearby wants to try their hand at cutting rocks. The stuff (without rocks) turns and finishes beautifully!

[John Lanciani]

Erik had it right in the first reply; Lenox Trimaster. It's the blade made for cutting some of the hardest, most difficult to cut metals, it laughs at wood. Rated to cut titanium alloys, rosewood doesn't stand a chance...

[Edward Weber]

My experience: I have cut many, many tropical hardwoods on my two shop bandsaws with several different blade types (including expensive carbide blades), a variety of species, and a variety of conditions such as resawing and otherwise cutting very thick wood, wet and dry, Brazilian and other rosewoods and some much harder and far more dense such as lignum vitae, ipe, and african blackwood.

All cut easily, some required cutting slower than others. I’ve never imagined comparing any of them to cutting aluminum or brass, which I also have experience with. To break off or otherwise damage bandsaw teeth is not something i’ve ever had the misfortune of doing (besides the time I cut into an embedded railroad spike on the Woodmizer or cut through rocks embedded in manzanita root burls.)

It would be easy to just forget what happened to the first people and move on but
BYW, I have more manzanita root burls if someone nearby wants to try their hand at cutting rocks. The stuff (without rocks) turns and finishes beautifully!

With tropical and more dense woods in general. You may want a lower tooth angle geometry, A blade with less hook, like a skip tooth geometry, is less aggressive and lends itself better to extremely hard woods and smaller (underpowered) saws. It also leaves a better finish.

Every piece of wood is different and without knowing anything more than 14" Laguna and resaw king, we're left only guessing.
Not everyone, including some woodworkers, can operate a bandsaw to its potential. It's also possible the 14" saw is simply underpowered for the task and an inexperienced operator had trouble cutting. Or it could be a million other scenarios. I won't continue to guess, only offer suggestions

You said, "I think it might be kind to give them some ideas, so they might find and correct the problem, Something was definitely wrong."
Yes, something or many things were incorrect, whether to tell them what the error/s were is entirely up to the OP, provided he indeed does make the cuts successfully himself.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Erik had it right in the first reply; Lenox Trimaster. It's the blade made for cutting some of the hardest, most difficult to cut metals, it laughs at wood. Rated to cut titanium alloys, rosewood doesn't stand a chance...

I own and still use a Trimaster as my go to resaw blade. As John stated, the Trimaster was a metal cutting blade that kind of got repurposed as a wood resaw blade. IIRC the Trimaster was/is the blade used by first responders portable bandsaws to cut apart badly mangled vehicles so passengers could be saved from the wreakage.