Veritas PM-V11 vs Blue Spruce Optima Chisels

[Bryan Hall]

I'm looking to get another chisel order in this fall and have a few veritas chisels which I do like. However, Lee Valley is still really struggling with supply chain and meeting delivery estimates. My last order took over a year to fulfill and I'd like to avoid repeating that. So, does anyone have experience head to head with these two? Any reason to wait for the veritas over the blue spruce?

[derek labian]

Hi Bryan,


I had a similar experience with Lee Valley but it seems to have gotten better. Here's a post on the hand tool status I received from Lee Valley. 489921


Regarding Blue Spruce: I have not used them; however, a WoodTalk episode a few years ago talked about the BlueSpruce chisels and how disappointed Marc Spagnuolo was. He speculated this issue could be a bad batch but returned them. It came after this Friday Live (I think) -- https://thewoodwhisperer.com/morning-show/loving-the-blue-spruce-friday-live/ (at 3:30 seconds). The gist was he was excited (as seen in his video) but then was disappointed by the performance for such an expensive chisel. If you care, you can find the WoodTalk episode, perhaps around episode 430. Again, I could be wrong about the final disposition, but that's what I remember.

[Keegan Shields]

Any reason not to expect the Blue Spruce chisels to perform like other A2 chisels?

If I upgraded from the LN A2 chisel set I use, it would be for the PM-V11 steel.

[Derek Cohen]

The latest Blue Spruce chisels are called the “Optima” ..

/]https://i.postimg.cc/KcTDQPpq/1128D931-63A5-4532-9332-1A63F9A3BFBB.jpg
https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/8aa237f1-e107-4568-aecc-4d25a1205bd3

These appear to differ from my BS Dovetail Chisels, which have thinner steel (at least, not tapered) ..

https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/b733f0df-1623-4283-92c5-14dfb7557dbb
https://i.postimg.cc/T2tDxZhD/4.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/c1DYz6fG/BS4a.jpg
https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/3640b27f-6c30-4352-b995-18370e4d60c1

I do not know if I can generalise from my early versions to the latest ones.

What I can mention about these is that they are wonderful for paring dovetails and finer work, but they will not hold an edge as long as the Veritas. The Veritas are also great in the hand, especially in the small sizes, but at 3/4” and above, they are noticeably heavier than the BS.

https://i.postimg.cc/rswRW9Zs/2.jpg
https://sawmillcreek.org/blob:https://sawmillcreek.org/acc54e24-3fce-4b42-801c-46a5fbaefe0a

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Peter Schussheim]

Aren't the Veritas pm11 chisels of the "bevel edge" type? Blue Spruce makes bevel edge, butt, pairing and dovetail styles. I only own a few of the dovetail chisels and they are fantastic. I most likely will order a few of their bevel edge chisels very soon since the sizes I want aren't available from Lie Nielsen.

price wise, blue spruce are competitive, especially with the beech handles.

[Thomas Wilson]

I ordered a set of Veritas PM-V11 chisels in March 2022. The date expected has pushed incrementally from May to June to July and now back past the Aug-Sept window Rob Lee mentioned. It has slid a bit at a time but the most recent status now is 12/31/22. I noticed that the Lee Valley Christmas catalog that came this week does not even list PM-V11 chisels.

My own experience is that for my use, which is paring joints to fit and cleaning up after machine tool work, most any chisel works well. I have some nice chisels and some general purpose chisels. Sharp is more important than the brand name on the chisel.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I have some nice chisels and some general purpose chisels. Sharp is more important than the brand name on the chisel.

Me too. And I agree with you 100%.

[Jim Koepke]

My own experience is that for my use, which is paring joints to fit and cleaning up after machine tool work, most any chisel works well. I have some nice chisels and some general purpose chisels. Sharp is more important than the brand name on the chisel.


Me too. And I agree with you 100%.

Most of my chisels were accumulated before A1, A2 or PMv-11 were being made. They work fine for my needs.

IMO, the PMv-11 is nicer to work with than A2 steel. Of course I haven't had the PMv-11 for as long as my A1 & 2 blades. The PMv-11 hasn't had to be taken to the stones as often as the A1 & 2.

jtk

[Beau Brooks]

I ordered PMV chisels in March 2022 and am still waiting for the majority of them as well. It's a bit frustrating when the expected date on the website is not accurate. The customer service reps just tell me that the wait times are long, unpredictable and that I can cancel my order at anytime if needed. Not exactly what you like to hear as a customer. I work in Supply Chain so I understand the delays but overall a frustrating experience none the less. If I didn't already own some of the mortise chisels and butt chisels in PMV I would be sending my money elsewhere. Let us know which direction you end up going.

Thanks,

[Bryan Hall]

Interesting development:

So I ordered a couple about a month ago and I put the order in because the website said available in two weeks. Two weeks passed and then the availability changed to late January, which is why I wrote this post and was thinking of switching to another brand since I had already gone down that rabbit hole of changing dates once.

As luck would have it 1 of 2 shipped today and the others availability date changed to December 19th. So, maybe I'll end up with the PM-V11s after all.

[derek labian]

Interesting development:

So I ordered a couple about a month ago and I put the order in because the website said available in two weeks. Two weeks passed and then the availability changed to late January, which is why I wrote this post and was thinking of switching to another brand since I had already gone down that rabbit hole of changing dates once.

As luck would have it 1 of 2 shipped today and the others availability date changed to December 19th. So, maybe I'll end up with the PM-V11s after all.

Bryan,

This review might help, both Blue Spruce, PMV11, and many others tested. You can look at the raw data here (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbHpIV2RTS0ZZRUpFQ183eFc5V2VZOT NtZ0REd3xBQ3Jtc0trRWFsY244a1VqWFZBbUlndzFCb2tub09R amM2S1pVLWRwb3RKUzdUYnBTUEh2WWpwMk9tbmM0d0JIQW9ZSE ktWjZyc2pnUGpNYjJxTkY4X3VvdlloS294dU96NDhmRm1kMFJC TmFOQkcxUWNzYkNycw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fspreadsheets%2Fd %2F1XoOGNmJUXlaVbNw5BcKtcbZzft6aZiQKjdeQRDBNE08%2F edit%3Fusp%3Dsharing&v=qVb3QcIVVIo)and manipulate it. I prioritized sharpen-ability, keenness, and durability. The Blue Spruce & Lie Neilson didn't fare well. Here's my list:



E.A.Berg 1 (Pre 50s)


Wood River Green


Pfeil (1999)


Veritas PMV11


E.A.Berg 4 (50s-70s)


E.A.Berg 7 Red Plastic


Wood River Socket


Hultafors Black


Narex Richter


Bahco ergo (E.A. Berg)


Aldi


White Steel


IBC


Nooitgedagt swedish steel Dutch company


Hultafors Red


Kimmons A2


Robert Sorby


Bahco Red


E.A.Berg Average


Kimmons Prototype


Ashley Iles


Grebstk


Blue Steel


Craftsman Black


Blue Spruce Optima 2021


Pfeil


Lie-Nielsen


Stanley Everlasting


IRWIN Marples clear


E.A.Berg 2 (Pre 50s)


IRWIN Marplesv blue


E.A.Berg 6 (Pre 50s)


Stanley Sweetheart


E.A.Berg 3 (Pre 50s)


Kobalt


Two Cherries


HF Wooden


E.A.Berg 5 (Pre 50s)


Kseibi


Narex Standard


Buck Brothers


HF Plastic




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVb3QcIVVIo&t=0s

[Bryan Hall]

What a fantastic amount of testing Derek. I love having this kind of info to help with the decision making process. Greatly appreciated!

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

I ise the pmv11 bemch chisels and blue spruce optima fishtail and paring. They are finished to a higher polish than the veritas chisels. I can't really compare them by function because i would never chop with the pairing chisels but you wont be disappointed whatever you choose

[John C Cox]

My own experience is that paring favors different steels and chisel prep than chopping.

I think it would be worthwhile to think about what you want to do with them and then buy accordingly.

For example, for chopping, the Narex Richter are fantastic, but many chisels including vintage ones do pretty well when properly prepped. I have a feeling Blue Spruce would do well chopping.

On the other hand, for paring tasks, the Buck comfort grip chisels prepped with a buffer beat everything else I own.

[Derek Cohen]

I have a feeling Blue Spruce would do well chopping.

Not in my experience, however I used the dovetail chisels which appear to have thinner blades ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/FourChiselSteelsCompared.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Reed Gray]

I did get the Kimmons chisels. I prefer to work with smaller shops since they tend to pay more attention to detail. It took about 3 months, and he stayed in touch with me the whole time. Don't know if they are any better than other A2 steel chisels or not. I could be considered an 'expert' of some sort with lathe tools. Just getting into flat work, well, getting into it again.

robo hippy