small shop dust collection

[jerry pepper]

I’ve read through about 4 pages of similar threads but wanted to bring up this discussion again and see if I could get some recommendations for my particular set-up. Small 1 car garage in a 100 year old house with a single 20a circuit. Looking for dust collection for my Sawstop Contractor. I don’t have a planer, jointer, etc but I do have a very good dust extractor for hooking up to my ROS sander and any handheld tools, so I’m really just looking for something to handle the table saw.

can I get away with one of those 1hp / 7a ~650cfm units like the ShopFox that Acme sells or the Rockler unit?

If I put a cyclone in-line do I also need a DC with a filter?

lastly those stand alone air circulation filter units, like the ones that hang from the ceiling. If I’m trying to keep my budget in check what combo of equip should i prioritize?

low ~650 CFM
higher ~1100 CFM
cyclone
wynn (or alternative) filter
additional air circulation filter

restrictions: table saw only, 1x20a circuit, weekend hobbyist


if I ever get a planer or jointer I’d prob also re-wire add another 20a circuit and get a 2hp DC but that’s not happening anytime soon.

[Aaron Inami]

If you are sharing everything on a single 20A circuit, then a 1HP dust collector is the most you will be able to add. Even so, there is definitely a possibility that running both table saw and dust collector off the same circuit could cause the breaker to flip at any given point. You might experiment with turning on the equipment in different order. Keep in mind that 1.75HP is the max you can practically attached to a normal 15A circuit. I understand you have a 20A circuit, but that extra 5A may not be enough for a 1HP 6.5A dust collector.

That being said, a cyclone is great because it captures 99% of your dust, which means you don't really have to mess with cleaning out your filter or bags much. However, you do still need some sort of filter on the output of the dust collector impeller to capture that last 1% of dust particles. Is cost a factor?

You could get a impeller/filter combo like this:
https://www.rockler.com/rockler-dust-right-650-cfm-wall-mount-dust-collector-with-canister-filter
or
https://www.acmetools.com/wall-mount-dust-collector-canister-filter-w1844/754001013964.html


Then use one of the Oneida dust deputy cyclones like this:
https://www.oneida-air.com/steel-super-dust-deputy-5-inch-cyclone-separator

Then add an Oneida drum size of your choice (several available):
https://www.oneida-air.com/10-gallon-steel-drum-kit-for-dust-deputy
https://www.oneida-air.com/55-gallon-steel-drum-kit-dust-deputy

One thing to realize is that the cyclone itself will leach some of the CFM power. The SawStop has a very good dust hood/port, but you will still have some debris being thrown on top of the table saw. You can just vacuum this up with the dust extractor. In the end, the 1HP impeller with a cyclone will be better than nothing, but it's not anything that will be super awsome.

I also have a ceiling mount air circulation cleaner, but I almost never use it. I only really turn it on when I have to clean the air really good in preparation for doing poly/lacquer finishing (I want to get as much particles out of the air as possible). The other reason to use an air cleaner is if you are doing a lot of sanding without a dust extractor. This put a lot of tiny particles in the air. Since I started using a dust extractor with my ROS, the air is actually completely clean! I really don't have a problem with the table saw because most of the dust are large enough and heavy enough that it just drops onto the top of the saw or the floor.

[Brian Gouldman]

Given your limitations and claims of already having a good dust extractor, I’d just get a dust deputy on a 5 gal or larger bucket and put it inline between saw and extractor. The contractor saw already has a relatively small dust port so you will be wasting your money on a higher cfm collector anyway. If you don’t already have a larger diameter hose then get the largest you can for your extractor. I assume there is probably a 2-2.5” hose available which will be close to the port on the contractor saw.

[Scott Winners]

I was extremely unhappy with my 120 volt dust collector in my attached garage shop. At that power level I was able to collect the 'chip' sized particles coming out of my electric horses, but the dust sized particles got distributed all over the shop. I work my electric donkeys out in the driveway now.

[jerry pepper]

Thanks Aaron, extremely helpful write-up, those are exact units so was looking at but I appreciate the additional info.

Brian, the contractor saw has a 4” port.

I guess the question is will I see a noticeable enough difference between a 1hp impeller with a cyclone and my Makita 4210L (rebadged nifilsk) extractor with a cyclone ?

[Dave Sabo]

I’d prob also re-wire add another 20a circuit and get a 2hp DC but that’s not happening anytime soon.

Then pretty much any upgrade path is DOA. Put what ever your planning to pay for a DC ow in your electrical piggy bank for later. That SS has a 1.75 or 2 HP motor as standard and that leaves you practically no headroom on a 20a circuit. I’m skeptical a 1HP dust collector will even work and I’m sure the pair will blow the breaker if you pushed the saw hard with say 8/4 ripping.

Think the best you can do with what you’ve got is a 2 ; 2-1/4” ; 2-1/2” hose for your extractor and a reducer on your table saw.



If I put a cyclone in-line do I also need a DC with a filter?
Yes , whether it’s a felt bag or a cartridge / canister. You run a filter in your fancy dust extractor even though it has a bag, right ?

Re: your priority list………….the most important thing isn’t on it. Upgrade your elect. Everything else is pretty much moot until then.

Let’s assume you have enough juice. Buy the biggest DC you can at the start. No one ever say “I wish my dust collector had less CFM’s”Remember your elect. limitations though. Even with that upgraded, you’re not going to be able to run a 5HP cyclone even if it was free. Cyclones are better than not, but a drum DC can be made more efficient with Thein baffle or JET vortex cone for less than a hundred bucks. A cartridge filter (Wynn) is better than a felt bag , but both work.

[Aaron Inami]

Thanks Aaron, extremely helpful write-up, those are exact units so was looking at but I appreciate the additional info.

Brian, the contractor saw has a 4” port.

I guess the question is will I see a noticeable enough difference between a 1hp impeller with a cyclone and my Makita 4210L (rebadged nifilsk) extractor with a cyclone ?


These are two completely different types of machines. The Makita 4210L is considered a "dust extractor" and excels with smaller tools (ROS/routers) because it generates a great amount of static pressure. However, the Makita is just not going to move enough air for the table saw. You are likely to see something like 80-120 CFM on the Makita if you use the biggest possible hose (i.e. 2.25").

The 1HP impeller with a cyclone is likely to get you somewhere in the 300-350 CFM range (realistically).

The static pressure generated from the Makita 4210L is going to be in the 80-85" range. The 1HP dust collector might generate about 10" of static pressure.

[jerry pepper]

I’m skeptical a 1HP dust collector will even work

this is why I posed the question

[jerry pepper]

Thanks Aaron, that was my understanding as well. But there are people here and in other threads, who claim otherwise, saying they don’t think a 1hp impeller “will even work”

[Jim Becker]

Jerry, if I can be honest, one 20 amp circuit is going to be a challenge for both your saw and any reasonable form of dust collection running at the same time. It may work, but it's going to be dicy, especially if you put the saw "under load" with a heavier cut on something. Were I you, I'd find a way to at least use a heavy extension cord from another 20 amp circuit to accommodate the second machine, whether it's a shop vac of some sort or a small dust collector that can run on 120v power, at least until you can get more power into your shop.

[jerry pepper]

Thanks Jim, I can certainly run a 12g extension cord, it’s not that far of a run. And eventually I can get another circuit wired in the garage.

I guess my question remains though will a 1hp DC be noticeably different than my extractor. I’m inclined to think yes, but some seem to disagree

[Alan Lightstone]

You might consider building a small box filter system with four 20x20x2" MERV 14 filters, duct tape and a cheap box fan instead of the ceiling air filter. Surprisingly effective and dirt cheap. Here's the link to the testing I did. It works almost as well as a Jet 1000B, for a much smaller cost. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?291720-Which-Air-Filtration-is-Better/page2

From experience, I can tell you that the stock SawStop contractors saw has pretty mediocre dust collection capabilities at best. And mine was hooked up to a 5HP Oneida cyclone. I improved mine at the time by building an enclosure around it (essentially making it into a cabinet saw), and increasing the duct size to it, but in reality you should realize that you won't get great dust collection out of it. Hence the air filter. And wear a respirator when working.

[Jim Becker]

I guess my question remains though will a 1hp DC be noticeably different than my extractor. I’m inclined to think yes, but some seem to disagree

The answer is likely yes...for tools like a table saw. Why? Dust collectors work differently than extractors/vacs. DCs move a large volume of air at low negative pressure (minimum "vacuum") which in turn moves the dust/debris. Extractors/vacs move a much smaller amount of air and rely upon greater negative pressure (vacuum) to do what they do. The latter works better with small diameter hoses and small machines ports, such as on hand-helds, etc. The former is better for tools that produce a higher volume of debris and support larger ports that can supply the volume of air necessary. A 1hp DC with a short 4" hose connected to a 4 inch port on a tool can generally do about 450 CFM. (that's what can actually fit in the hose)

[Doug Garson]

+1 on the 20 x 20 box fan with furnace filters, I have had one for many years and recently bought a air quality meter. I was pleasantly surprised when I checked the effectiveness of it. Just a thought for your short term electrical needs, is the garage lighting on it's own circuit? If so you could tap into that circuit to run the box fan air filter.

[Matthew Hills]

What are the dust fittings on the sawstop contractor saw? does it have a shroud around the blade going to a 2-1/2" or 4" port? do you have dust collection port above the blade?


I ran a jet hybrid saw with thin-kerf blade and a jet dc1100 dust collector from a 20A circuit. I could trip a breaker if the saw bogged down in a thick cut or the blade pinched.

The dust collection was not amazing--it did collect sawdust, but not enough for the air quality to be good or to avoid sawdust around the garage.

I wore a good (P100) dust mask during and after any work that generated dust. Running a box fan with windows/doors open was helpful for clearing out dust in the air.

I did have a ceiling air fan to help clear the air at the end of the day, but this never seemed to do as much as the box fan and open doors.

I did try a couple of separators with the dust collector at various points:
- would not recommend the trash-can lids
- oneida super dust deputy worked well for catching planer/jointer shavings before clogging up my canister filter. Not sure if this was particularly helpful with table saw.

If you have space to not bother neighbors you might be able to use a dust deputy to collect most of the waste, and then run without a filter and vent outside.


Matt

[jerry pepper]

Thanks everyone, I’ll probably go ahead with a 1hp model and a box fan with filters. I can run an extension cord from nearby or tap into the ceiling lights. I was anticipating that already.

The main reason I even mentioned the 20a limit was that I don’t have a dedicated additional circuit, so doing something like a modified version of the 2hp Harbor Freight unit is not really a feasible option for me.

[jerry pepper]

Alan, in my research I think I read your thread on adding the enclosure around the base. I might do the same.

[Jim Becker]

I suggest you do not tap into the lights for tools...they very likely are on a circuit shared by other things. Run the extension cord from a known additional 20 amp circuit.

[Doug Garson]

Agree with Jim, I would just use the ceiling circuit for the box fan only not any tools.

[Jim Dwight]

I had a delta 1hp DC in my previous shop. I did not bother to hook it up in my current shop. It just did not move enough air to do much of anything IMHO. I sold it with the cartridge filter I added. You cannot add any DC to your current circuit, you need another for the DC. I also would not try your dust extractor on your SawStop contractor say. I tried a big Rigid shop vac on my PCS and it would not even keep the dust level from building up in the cabinet. The cabinet is terribly leaky so unless you are moving a lot of air you cannot get the dust. I use a shop vac with a dust deputy on my small tools (track saw, sanders and domino). On my PCS, router table, bandsaw, jointer, and planner I use a "2hp" DC from Harbor Freight. I have a super dust deputy on it and it discharges after the cyclone outside. I do not heat or cool my shop. I have gates on each machine and as long as only one is open at a time it does fine.

I have two 20A circuits, one for tools, and one for the DC (plus a light circuit). I think that is the minimum if your want a dust collector. I had to add a circuit when I put in the HF DC. I had to remove a bit of drywall and drill a bunch of holes but it wasn't too bad.

[Dave Sabo]

Thanks Jim, I can certainly run a 12g extension cord…….

I guess my question remains though will a 1hp DC be noticeably different than my extractor. I’m inclined to think yes, but some seem to disagree

10ga extension would be better.

Yes, a DC would be a better choice for bigger machines or those with a 4” port. It’ll be even mo better when you get a jointer and especially a planer.

My comment to just use your Makita was because it’ll be the only thing you could even hope to run at the same time on one circuit. Despite what Aaron says , it WILL work on a table saw. Vacuum is vacuum and the light dust created by the saw will find its way to the vac trust me. Not all of it , but enough. Is it ideal ? Nope. Would a DC that supports a 4” hose be better ? Yup.

[Alan Lightstone]

Alan, in my research I think I read your thread on adding the enclosure around the base. I might do the same.
I would. Works fine without it. Looks very McGyverish, but works. Look into buying a better fan for it. My upgrade from the Lasko fan yielded substantial improvement for little cost. The more CFM the better for it (albeit a little noisier). And buy a respirator and wear it. Cheap. Effective. The filters last surprisingly long on the box filter. I haven't yet had the need to replace mine.

And like others have posted, you need to upgrade the electrical. You just don't have enough capacity.

You will like the SawStop a lot.