Shortage or strong demand for used machinery?

[Steve Mathews]

I just sold a Oneway 1640 lathe one day after placing an ad on Craigslist. I'm also noticing machines that were once plentiful on auction sites scarcer. Is this a result of shortages tied to the supply chain problem (less newer stuff therefore people holding onto their old stuff) or a stronger demand?

[Brian Runau]

I think that is true, less now than it was, but prices for new remain very high, so I think more folks are buying used. Brian

[Justin Rapp]

The inflation rate is high, supply chain also has issues and with the pandemic we just went through, so many people were home and building out workshops to keep busy. Used machines are still being swept up very quickly since the new market for those machines that are now finally coming into stock have higher prices. One machine I couldn't get during the pandemic is now available and 40% more. That is a pretty steep jump for a sanding machine.

I suspect that in a few years, a lot of people who built up their shops to try out woodworking will potentially change hobbies and start to sell off AND those who stick with it, might outgrow what they purchased and upgrade.

Either way, I have been searching for a drum sander on the used market for a long time. I don't want a problem machine so when I see things like 'such and such needs some maintenance, I pass it over. I just saw a jet 1632 in mint condition show up on craigslist for 1000. New that machine is currently about 1600 after tax. If it was local, i'd most likely grab it but my cost to drive there and back sits at like $400 for gas/tolls/wear and tear, not including an entire day of driving. Someone in Virginia is gonna get a good buy.

[Dave Sabo]

I just sold a Oneway 1640 lathe one day after placing an ad on Craigslist. I'm also noticing machines that were once plentiful on auction sites scarcer. Is this a result of shortages tied to the supply chain problem (less newer stuff therefore people holding onto their old stuff) or a stronger demand?


It's BOTH .

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I agree it's both.

I seriously think a lot of the supply and demand issues with used tools/equipment is based on ones locale. I quit searching Craigslist locally because the supply was never there, when it was it looked worn out and was overpriced.

[Matt Day]

Funny, there wa a thread on OWWM and guys were saying they’ve been having a harder time selling things lately. After the boom the past couple years.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Funny, there wa a thread on OWWM and guys were saying they’ve been having a harder time selling things lately. After the boom the past couple years.

IMHO, the prices for old iron have inflated so much that maybe they are finally hitting the point of pricing themselves out of the market. I love quality old iron, but when I can't find a used shaper for much less than a new one, something is wrong.

[Dave Sabo]

Funny, there wa a thread on OWWM and guys were saying they’ve been having a harder time selling things lately. After the boom the past couple years.



IMHO, the prices for old iron have inflated so much that maybe they are finally hitting the point of pricing themselves out of the market. I love quality old iron, but when I can't find a used shaper for much less than a new one, something is wrong.

Matt - both a shortage/strong demand AND old arn not selling can be true at the same time. Lots of flippers , cough, refurbisher's have priced themselves out of the market either through greed or simple economics. They bought the donor too high and/or spent too much time and money making it like new again. In my view the OWWM fellas have always catered to the collector market or well heeled boomers looking for a bit of nostalgia. That market is a lot different than the person looking to buy a tool to do a job - whether that be a hobbyist, part time gig worker, or a small business. Plus, it's shrinking by the day.

Steve hit the nail on the head, the consumer isn't stupid.

[Jacob Mac]

I've tried selling a Grizzly cabinet saw and a festool miter saw in KC for several months with little interest. Both in good shape, I think the prices are pretty reasonable, but just not a lot of interest.

It is tight in my shop, but I can see the benefit of two table saws.

[Dave Sabo]

If there’s little or no interest , then the market has spoken. It doesn’t really matter what you think , it’s what the market thinks.

[Justin Rapp]

If there’s little or no interest , then the market has spoken. It doesn’t really matter what you think , it’s what the market thinks.

This is very true, and also the market shifts very quick. Some of the supply chain issues are starting to get relief. One example of this was Grizzly announcing they were having price cuts (or sales, I forgot) as machines started to become available again. Going onto other companies web sites, I am 'available' vs 'backordered' on a good amount of equipment now. So now that new machines are becoming available again, the demand for used machines should actually start to fall off. Once the quantity of used machines available start to stack up as people upgrade to new machines, we should see more available used equipment. That also means used prices might need to come down to make it worthwhile.

Back to market interest, for me to save 20% on a machine to buy used, that I need to figure out how to get out of someone's shop, transported and into my basement shop just isn't worth it. A new machine, on a pallet, with a warranty dropped off in my garage is worth a lot to me, and I am sure others. This doesn't even change much for smaller machines honestly. I see a lot of festool on the market and at least the asking prices are sometimes 80-90% of new. Why would I pay 450 for a used sander that I can get new for 499. (from a recent add on facebook marketplace for an RO90).

[Warren Lake]

always found good used machinery at a fraction of lesser quality new stuff. Even from other cabinetmakers that have used the machines for their lifetime. Only time ive paid high is the odd time I had to go buy a machine to complete a job and then went to a used dealer to get it done fast. Otherwise would have paid a tiny fraction of new. Oh and the first six new machines I bought long ago.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

This is very true, and also the market shifts very quick. Some of the supply chain issues are starting to get relief. One example of this was Grizzly announcing they were having price cuts (or sales, I forgot) as machines started to become available again. Going onto other companies web sites, I am 'available' vs 'backordered' on a good amount of equipment now. So now that new machines are becoming available again, the demand for used machines should actually start to fall off. Once the quantity of used machines available start to stack up as people upgrade to new machines, we should see more available used equipment. That also means used prices might need to come down to make it worthwhile.

Back to market interest, for me to save 20% on a machine to buy used, that I need to figure out how to get out of someone's shop, transported and into my basement shop just isn't worth it. A new machine, on a pallet, with a warranty dropped off in my garage is worth a lot to me, and I am sure others. This doesn't even change much for smaller machines honestly. I see a lot of festool on the market and at least the asking prices are sometimes 80-90% of new. Why would I pay 450 for a used sander that I can get new for 499. (from a recent add on facebook marketplace for an RO90).

Ditto. For me, a used machine that will cost half of new replacement cost may be interesting, anything over that is not worth the effort. Cost INCLUDES the hassle of getting it into my shop, sellers usually don't want take that into account. I bought an edgebander for $177 a while back. Cost me $1000 or so to go get it. Cost is not $177.

Rant alert... This is the reason that I will not drive into the Denver area to buy anything as the time wasted to do so is just not worth it. For me, a machine in the Denver area must be much cheaper than a physically further away but simpler logistical option because of the pain and suffering factor. I suspect that applies to many buyers around metro areas. If you want me to buy a machine or materials from someplace that it's hard to get my truck to, the seller needs to figure out a way to get it somewhere away from the traffic for a handoff. For a retired guy not worried about losing a day of time to go get a something, this isn't a big deal for him to deal with. For me, minutes matter, it is.

[Justin Rapp]

Rant alert... This is the reason that I will not drive into the Denver area to buy anything as the time wasted to do so is just not worth it. For me, a machine in the Denver area must be much cheaper than a physically further away but simpler logistical option because of the pain and suffering factor. I suspect that applies to many buyers around metro areas. If you want me to buy a machine or materials from someplace that it's hard to get my truck to, the seller needs to figure out a way to get it somewhere away from the traffic for a handoff. For a retired guy not worried about losing a day of time to go get a something, this isn't a big deal for him to deal with. For me, minutes matter, it is.

Your rant isn't really a rant at all, it's honestly pure fact for many of us. Time cost a fortune that you can never get back. While I get this, for me it's a hobby, and part of the hobby is getting time away from the stress of life, not adding stress. But at the same time, there is a cost / benefit analysis. If i have 6 hours of 'hobby' time this week. I'd rather spend it doing something in the hobby I enjoy. And while I love the excitement of hunting for and finding a new machine, let alone using it, driving a bunch of hours each way and figuring out how to transport something heavy isn't fun for me. Especially when you find out the machine isn't as advertised and more worn out or something is broken. And if I had all day, every day to do enjoy my hobby, my thoughts on this would be different.

[Cameron Wood]

In my upscale urban area, multiple cabinet shops are closing so there is no shortage in that direction. There is also a glut of unisaws due to folks getting sawstops.

[Jacob Mac]

If there’s little or no interest , then the market has spoken. It doesn’t really matter what you think , it’s what the market thinks.

Of course it does. I have no need to sell anything. If I had to sell it, it is only worth what I can get. But I don't, so the utility of keeping it is worth more to me than the money.

And the thread is about shortage or strong demand. So if a reasonable price generates little interest, then there isn't strong demand. That would be a buyers market. Reasonable is subjective but I'm selling it for less than 40% of purchase MSRP, it is in good shape, has a lot of extras etc.

I've got a pretty firm grasp on economics, but thanks.

[Tim Greif]

Back in 2001, I bought a Jet JJ6csx closed stand 6" jointer for just under $500. Finally soid it this past year. I had guys fighting to get there to pay me $750. This same jointer model is still current and now sells for around $1,500. Not sure why, but these old Jets are still in demand, at least in the Chicagoland area. Go figure.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Of course it does. I have no need to sell anything. If I had to sell it, it is only worth what I can get. But I don't, so the utility of keeping it is worth more to me than the money.

And the thread is about shortage or strong demand. So if a reasonable price generates little interest, then there isn't strong demand. That would be a buyers market. Reasonable is subjective but I'm selling it for less than 40% of purchase MSRP, it is in good shape, has a lot of extras etc.

I've got a pretty firm grasp on economics, but thanks.

But Jacob, the market value and hence demand is set by completed transactions, a completed transaction must occur to get a meaningful data point. What you describe is not actually letting the market determine either, you describe the process for assessing the value of a machine to you. Equally valuable thing to asses, but completely different.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Back in 2001, I bought a Jet JJ6csx closed stand 6" jointer for just under $500. Finally soid it this past year. I had guys fighting to get there to pay me $750. This same jointer model is still current and now sells for around $1,500. Not sure why, but these old Jets are still in demand, at least in the Chicagoland area. Go figure.
I bought the same model in July 2021 for about $300 with the fees at an auction, and it's a handy machine, the best jointer I have had. Not sure I'd want to pay $750 for one, but maybe. My last jointer was a 6" Rockwell for $50, so what I did pay seemed like a lot in comparison.

[Andrew More]

Totally anecdotal, but here there doesn't seem to be a shortage, quite the opposite. One of the local equipment stores had more used equipment than I've ever seen on hand. Their prices aren't great, but they're not retail either, and just filled to the brim. Usually I see 3-4 items, last time I was there, like 20-30. I also agree with the comments about things being regional, but I also think the supply chain has gotten better, and the demands have gone down.

[Warren Lake]

buying machinery is a job. i try to never buy when I need it but before hand. I see no point saying its this or its that because there are times its not. Ive never had any trouble finding good machines at good prices. Ive been burned twice but it was likely more incompetence than lack of integrity or really it was both, both were high school woodworking shops. They are the arm pit of the woodworking world.

The only regrets I have are the times there were machines up that I wanted but life was just too busy to take on anymore.

[Matt Day]

I’d very much differ than OWWM is for boomers looking for nostalgia. Yes the fully restored and very bolt polished, maybe, but in general old iron can be had for a much lower price and perform better than new machines. Plenty of professional shops running old iron, and plenty of young people have fought the bug. Paying new prices is just dumb IMO, unless you have zero mechanical competency and couldn’t change a worn bearing to save your life.

I would agree that there are plenty of flippers trying to catch the reselling wave especially when we had more machine shortages in the past couple years. Sole prices for old used machines that need work are silly. But deals are out there if you know where to look.

[Dave Sabo]

Matt, I prob. should have been more specific and said the fellas over at OWWM that are complaining about machines not selling now are the flippers catering to the nostalgic crowd.

[Warren Lake]

will see how this one goes. Link doesnt seem to work for me here but Cutler Forest Products early this week. Okay try this one think its working


(https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/infinity-asset-solutions/catalogue-id-bscinf10366%23lot-ad99f820-ff28-4064-9ee7-af33015749bd)https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/infinity-asset-solutions/catalogue-id-bscinf10366

[Steve Rozmiarek]

will see how this one goes. Link doesnt seem to work for me here but Cutler Forest Products early this week. Okay try this one think its working


(https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/infinity-asset-solutions/catalogue-id-bscinf10366%23lot-ad99f820-ff28-4064-9ee7-af33015749bd)https://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/infinity-asset-solutions/catalogue-id-bscinf10366

Wish that was about 1000 miles closer.

[William Bell]

I concur with the machine flippers are now more prominent. I saw a Powermatic model 27 shaper 5HP 3 Ph for sale on FB Marketplace 2 weeks ago, for $1100. The shaper appeared to be in very good condition although the rear door seemed to be missing. I currently own 4 Powermatic 26's, 2 are 2Hp and 2 are 3 HP. Each one is setup for a different operation. I wanted the 27 because it has a slightly better fence system, built in dust port and 5HP would be better for raising panels. Curiously, it only had a 3/4 inch spindle. I have (2) 1 1/4 spindles in the rat hole that need bearings and some other work. I was going to sell one of the 3HP shapers if I could buy this shaper. I immediately inquired and was told the machine was already sold and gone.

A few hours later, 2.5 hours to be exact, the same machine was listed on FB Marketplace and Craigslist for sale for $2,500 about 65 miles away from the original location. At $1100 I thought the price was fair and perhaps a little low. Keep in mind (3) of the 4 Powermatic Model 26's I purchased were $800.00. The 4 was $1200 but came with a Steff large Power feeder and literally thousands of dollars in cutters from Freeborn, Infinity and Grizzly. Two of the machines were in excellent condition and 2 were in very good condition. 2 were from the metallic gold era and 2 were from the metallic green era.

I spoke to the new owner and he readily admitted he had no intention in using the tool since he owned a similar Grizzly shaper. I offered him $1400 a $300 profit in a few hours, he laughed. He insisted that machine is worth every penny of $2500 since new ones are $4500. Last year I passed on a Model 27 in excellent like new condition for $1900 with a 3HP 1PH motor. That seller eventually got his price. In the interim, I bought two of the 26's for $800 each both 3HP single phase. I told the new owner he would have a hard time getting his asking price. The shaper is still for sale at $2,500. The seller, like me and many on this site is a member of OWWM. In the past, I have encountered individuals who purchased machines restore them and sell them. I have no issue with that. It is disquieting when nothing was done to a machine and it is marked up almost 2.5 times from its purchase price in a few hours.

[Robert London]

Most people are going to check what the current new price / availability is vs used. Companies like Grizzly have a huge advantage as they sell direct. They can instantly reduce prices when container costs drop dramatically and pass that on to the consumer.

Most all of the other major brands whether it's Jet, Powermatic, Laguna, etc. all have the dealer network to navigate. Grizzly can take a $5400 planer and then sell it for $4600 3 months later. So that's going to drop what they can sell used ones for.

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in 2023 with machinery prices. Even if supply chain costs drop along with shipping prices, will other brands ever pass the savings on to the consumer, or just keep it as high as it was? People will vote with their dollars.

[Jared Sankovich]

I concur with the machine flippers are now more prominent. I saw a Powermatic model 27 shaper 5HP 3 Ph for sale on FB Marketplace 2 weeks ago, for $1100. The shaper appeared to be in very good condition although the rear door seemed to be missing. I currently own 4 Powermatic 26's, 2 are 2Hp and 2 are 3 HP. Each one is setup for a different operation. I wanted the 27 because it has a slightly better fence system, built in dust port and 5HP would be better for raising panels. Curiously, it only had a 3/4 inch spindle. I have (2) 1 1/4 spindles in the rat hole that need bearings and some other work. I was going to sell one of the 3HP shapers if I could buy this shaper. I immediately inquired and was told the machine was already sold and gone.

A few hours later, 2.5 hours to be exact, the same machine was listed on FB Marketplace and Craigslist for sale for $2,500 about 65 miles away from the original location. At $1100 I thought the price was fair and perhaps a little low. Keep in mind (3) of the 4 Powermatic Model 26's I purchased were $800.00. The 4 was $1200 but came with a Steff large Power feeder and literally thousands of dollars in cutters from Freeborn, Infinity and Grizzly. Two of the machines were in excellent condition and 2 were in very good condition. 2 were from the metallic gold era and 2 were from the metallic green era.

I spoke to the new owner and he readily admitted he had no intention in using the tool since he owned a similar Grizzly shaper. I offered him $1400 a $300 profit in a few hours, he laughed. He insisted that machine is worth every penny of $2500 since new ones are $4500. Last year I passed on a Model 27 in excellent like new condition for $1900 with a 3HP 1PH motor. That seller eventually got his price. In the interim, I bought two of the 26's for $800 each both 3HP single phase. I told the new owner he would have a hard time getting his asking price. The shaper is still for sale at $2,500. The seller, like me and many on this site is a member of OWWM. In the past, I have encountered individuals who purchased machines restore them and sell them. I have no issue with that. It is disquieting when nothing was done to a machine and it is marked up almost 2.5 times from its purchase price in a few hours.

He is going to be sitting on that 27 for a long time.. he's also trying to sell that grizzly for way more than it's worth. I've seen machines up for years because "it's worth that much"