Shooting board - ramped or no?

[Clifford McGuire]

I've used a basic homemade shooting board for 10 years or so. But for some reason, it didn't make the move from our old house. Probably because it looked like a worn out piece of plywood scrap.

So, it's time to make a new one. I've watched some youtube videos and am intrigued by the ramped version.

It makes for a much more complicated build. Is it worth it?

[Derek Cohen]

Clifford, 5 degree ramped board if you are using a plane with a straight blade, such as a LA Jack. Flat board if you have a skewed blade.

What the ramp does is allow the blade to enter progressively, rather than all at one. This reduces the impact quite significantly.

Some think that there is a slicing cut, or that the wear is spread on the blade. Not so.

https://i.postimg.cc/wBFvsDjw/Shooting-Boardsforthe-LNHandtool-Event-html-m26ce620f.jpg

The key to this design is the fence. This can slide side-to-side to take up wear, plus there is a little adjustment for squaring up. And it can alter to a mitre cut ..

https://i.postimg.cc/rmmpGzdM/ShootingBoardsfortheLNHandtoolEvent_html_m605081d2 .jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/9z3FjpLQ/ShootingBoardsfortheLNHandtoolEvent_html_57e4947d. jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

As Derek says, it depends on the plane in use.

With planes like the Veritas or LN Shooting Planes there is no need to make a ramped shooting board.

jtk

[Thomas Crawford]

Now I'm inspired to make a new one out of hardwood. Thanks for posting Derek.

[Clifford McGuire]

Good to know Derek. I currently use a LV LA Jack, but have been thinking about a LV Shooting plane.

[John TenEyck]

IMO 5 degrees offers no real benefit. What little benefit there might be as the blade enters the cut is lost once it's all in the wood. The shear angle is too small to be of any measurable benefit. Shooting plane makers wouldn't set the iron at 20 deg if a lower value worked as well.

John

[Larry Frank]

So....what is the best angle. I am using an LN 4-1/2.

[Derek Cohen]

IMO 5 degrees offers no real benefit. What little benefit there might be as the blade enters the cut is lost once it's all in the wood. The shear angle is too small to be of any measurable benefit. Shooting plane makers wouldn't set the iron at 20 deg if a lower value worked as well.

John

John, my experience says otherwise. I began making ramped shooting boards at least 20 years ago, having earlier been introduced to them by Terry Gordon (HNT Gordon planes), who worked alongside Michael Connor, another Australian toolmaker. Michael was the only person I knew who to make a ramped shooting board. At the time I was using a 60-degree HNT Trying Plane to shoot end grain, and this really showed up the advantage of the ramp.

Michael Connor’s shooting board (left) alongside one of mine, at a woodshow in 2008 …

https://i.postimg.cc/BnyB2PjJ/0A27A6B7-80F0-4452-B427-DB067FA2034F.png

Early model with HNT Trying plane …

https://i.postimg.cc/ZqdFHYNp/2AB360DF-B0FD-4BAE-B746-D8B93B30AE58.png

I spent several years tinkering with the design. Sold a few around the world. The design was copied by Tico Vogt when he made his first generation Super Chute.

Today I mainly use a Veritas or LN shooting plane on a Stanley #52 chute board, but do pull out an use the ramped board with a low angle strike block I built ..

https://i.postimg.cc/cHp1TTry/Buildinga-Strike-Block-Plane-html-6e20bb98.jpg

It is largely used for shooting long mitres …

https://i.postimg.cc/SR5sVBwq/Buildinga-Mitred-Pencil-Boxwitha-Shooting-Board-html-m536ec68c.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Paul Bent]

I love mine. One needs to consider that on exiting the cut, it remains as gentle as the entry. I keep a spacer block in the hollow and use mine as a bench hook for sawing too. It is easier to drop down the heel of the saw.

[William Fretwell]

Back to basics!

With a 5 degree slope the progressive entering of the blade is trivial. Depending on the thickness of the piece the lateral travel of the blade may be significant. If the wood climbs an inch it means you used an inch more of the blade. Very basic.

Using more blade means the edge stays sharp longer, also sharpening is easier as the wear is spread out over a longer edge.

If the wood is thin compared to the lateral movement you get fresh blade several times over during the cut.

So yes in many cases a ramped shooting board is a plus. If the board and plane blade width are closely matched in width then a ramped board may not work. Using a 5 &1/2 may be a plus for a ramped board.

At least you are not pushing the plane uphill :) .

[Charles Guest]

The iron in a shooting plane shouldn't need honing during the course of shooting for an entire furniture project, maybe two, regardless of what kind of board you're using. If it does, you aren't getting close enough with the saw. Two or three passes, tops, on any given workpiece. The material removed should be so thin as to practically melt when held in the sweaty palm of your hand. If your sawing is consistently too wide of the line, then shoot it in your vice for a few strokes and then take it to the board. The board is not for removing bulk material. Not even close. You really shouldn't need to shoot square ends but once in a blue moon. Incise a line and split it with your saw. A swipe or two with a bench plane or block plane should be all that's necessary and not even that every time. Very wide carcase pieces are shot square and smooth in your vice. They are too wide for a shooting board.

Unless every carcase you build is dead square, and I mean dead square (and no bumps or humps), a lot of moulding will need its angle slightly adjusted with a bench chisel anyway. Putting a perfect 45* set of mouldings on a slightly out of square carcase will result in a gap somewhere. A lot of times this is screened with a small moulding that's flexible enough to be pinned in tight to cover, but not always. Point is, you may shoot to a perfect 45*, when the 46* you had before you shot it was actually what you needed in the first place. "Easing into the cut" "shearing cut" and all of that is essentially nonsensical since you're not removing enough material in a pass to matter.

A ramped board would have been a 'thing' in a production hand shop, where workers had the specific task of putting out dozens and dozens of feet of moulding a day on a piecework basis. A donkey's ear shoot is built to facilitate shooting wide mouldings, not as a strategy to prolong an edge.

Even on a large case project, with complicated base, waist, and crown, the sole practitioner's shooting plane should have no trouble getting through the entire project with an intact edge - even irons from Stanley, Record, and the like.

Look at a large carcase project, photo is fine, and do the mental arithmetic on how many inches of ends of mouldings you'd have had to shoot to trim out the entire project. It won't be more than three or four feet of ends, and very likely less.

My advice is to metaphorically stick your fingers in your ears when you read any thread and posts on a woodworking forum that prominently features the phrase "edge life." It's usually all downhill from there, will give you an inferiority complex, or make you feel as if you need to spend a lot of money, time, or both on something when you don't really need to at all.

Unless your shop is completely climate controlled, I'd build jigs out of MDF and/or good quality plywood. Cuban mahogany would work too, if you have some of it lying around. ;-)

[James Pallas]

Changes the cutting angle just like skewing the plane on any other surface. Makes some difference.
Jim

[William Fretwell]

Clearly I’ve been making my shooting board work too hard! Must improve my hand sawing!
I have found periodic stropping on leather with green compound does bring back the smoothest of cuts with white oak and the like.

My board is not ramped, it’s built to maximise the available depth.

I wonder why the production shop would use a ramped board for mass production if not to use more of the blade? It is the only reason I can see to justify a ramped board. As a mere amateur I am content with my straight board.

[Jim Koepke]

It has been a while for me since playing with the numbers, my calculation with a 5º ramp over 12" would have a rise of 1.05". With a 4/4 piece of wood it seems ~2" of blade would be engaged in the work.

--My calculations could be wrong. Tangent of 5º=0.0875 the adjacent… OOPS! It just hit me that the 12" might be the hypotenuse, interesting the sine for 5º is 0.0871557, so the answer would be a rise of 1.045". About the same as before.

Probably doesn't make much difference if the ramp or the support board is inclined.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

William, these two ramped boards belong to a high-end professional furnituremaker/designer. One is a reverse ramped board, which is used for shooting veneer.

Nothing fancy, just MDF.

https://i.postimg.cc/VsHdYt5T/Neilsboards1-zpsml35hkhh.jpg

A shooting board is not intended to do grunt work. It is for tweaking/fine tuning.

To repeat what I wrote earlier: the 5 degree ramp is sufficient to make a difference in practice. This is not theoretical. Secondly, the ramp does not widen the wear on the blade. This is miniscule.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jon Snider]

Good to know Derek. I currently use a LV LA Jack, but have been thinking about a LV Shooting plane.

Better order soon. I was waiting for many months, can’t remember exactly how long, and it became available again just recently. Not sure if it still is.

[William Fretwell]

Derek if the travel is about an inch then the use of the blade is widened by the same amount, not trivial but useful.

Now the reversed ramp for veneer; genius!

[Thomas Crawford]

Better order soon. I was waiting for many months, can’t remember exactly how long, and it became available again just recently. Not sure if it still is.

Its in stock. I'm staring at it. I want it.

Is it worth getting the aluminum tracks? Seems like a luxury but not really necessary.

[Thomas Crawford]

made its way into my cart...

[Tom M King]

I've somehow managed to get by without a ramp or aluminum tracks, but I really do like the LV Shooting Plane.

[Jim Koepke]

Its in stock. I'm staring at it. I want it.

Is it worth getting the aluminum tracks? Seems like a luxury but not really necessary.

This may depend on how one uses a shooting board. Until contemplating the the idea, it seemed odd to me the suggestion some make of clamping your work to the shooting board. For me it seemed holding the work piece with one hand while operating the plane with the other seemed the way to go about using a shooting board. Then it occurred to me the work could be positioned proud of the fence and worked down until the plane could shave no more. So if you clamp work to the shooting board a rail may not work for this method.

The pre-made aluminum tracks are nice. I made my own from a piece of scrap ash:

489487

Make the screw holes in the rail elongated so the ramp can be adjusted when the whether changes.

This keeps the plane from traveling away from the work. It is one less thing to go wrong.

jtk

[Thomas Crawford]

Thanks Jim. I currently use the veritas low angle jack on a shooting board with no outer fence guide. But I tend to hold it on the side up close to the middle so it gives me a little leverage against the inner guide. The shooting plane handle is further back so it seems like it would need the outer guide to not travel away from the work as you said. The aluminum guide seems like a nice way to accomplish it.

[Derek Cohen]

Its in stock. I'm staring at it. I want it.

Is it worth getting the aluminum tracks? Seems like a luxury but not really necessary.

An aluminium track is not necessary, but if you are using a #51-style shooting plane (Veritas or LN) with the handle at the rear, then you need a side rail to keep the plane tracking against the work piece. Pushing from the rear of the plane affects directionality. In this situation, the aluminium track makes for a easier build. I simply added an adjustable wooden rail.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks Jim. I currently use the veritas low angle jack on a shooting board with no outer fence guide. But I tend to hold it on the side up close to the middle so it gives me a little leverage against the inner guide. The shooting plane handle is further back so it seems like it would need the outer guide to not travel away from the work as you said. The aluminum guide seems like a nice way to accomplish it.

The Veritas Shooting Plane has a handle that can be set almost vertical in relation to the ramp. This also allows a few fingers to press against the blade and lever cap to keep the plane running true. Though the track does help in the endeavor.

For my low angle jack or other planes, a hot dog on the side helped a lot to keep it running true.

jtk

[Thomas Crawford]

Bought it this morning. It went to "limited quantities" so hopefully I get one. Went ahead and passed on the track as I don't think I'll have any issue making a square guide. Looking forward to using this, I use my shooting board a lot and this will be a nice upgrade.

[Jim Koepke]

Went ahead and passed on the track as I don't think I'll have any issue making a square guide.

It should be easy, just remember to allow for adjustment when needed.

jtk

[Thomas Crawford]

So finally got to use the new plane this past week. It was a clear upgrade to me from the LA Jack, but it is a luxury. The added mass of the plane is noticeable. If you have the budget for a specialty tool its totally worth it, but if you are deciding between this and something else essential you can use a LA Jack just fine.

Incidentally I haven't gone and added the track to my existing shooting board yet. Since the handle is adjustable I just angled it down a bit. Not the best ergonomically but didn't have any issues keeping it up against the guide and the work piece.

[James Pallas]

Charles has it about right, IMO. I started out trying to take too much if a cut, getting a running start, like running your car into a Jersey Bumper. Once I received some proper guidance and learned to think smoothing plane I got better at it. Of course sharp is a good thing. Put the plane up to the edge a little harder push to get a start and take a shaving. I’ve not made a ramped board. I can see where it could help. Try it out by putting your block plane on a five degree skew on end grain. Five degrees will look like a lot looking down on it. Way easier to start the plane on that little corner than a 3/4” flat.
Jim