Could This be the Knock of Opportunity?

[Jim Koepke]

This was in the New York Times today:


Americans bought piles of furniture during the pandemic, with sales on desks, chairs and patio equipment jumping by more than $4 billion from 2019 to 2021, according to a market data company. And a lot of it won’t survive the decade.

Fast furniture, which is mass-produced and relatively inexpensive, is easy to obtain and then abandon.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/31/realestate/fast-furniture-clogged-landfills.html

Further along in the article the narrative changes to someone who decided he didn't want disposable furniture for his newly renovated rowhouse. He ended up building all of his own furniture.

Will more people also opt for something more durable?

Could that be a market for those of us who have built various items of home furniture?

jtk

[Edward Weber]

I believe there is always a market for quality furniture, where ever it comes from. For those of us who can build such items, I would say it looks good.
I can only imagine some of the chip board screw together pieces that people bought at the beginning of the pandemic to work at home are already on their last legs.
To borrow a quote from a friend of mine
"A piece of furniture should be made to last for at least as long as it took the tree took to grow"
Jeremy Broun 2005

[Jeff Roltgen]

Just addressed this point, and someone linked to the very same article. We were talking about a new grade of ply furniture showing up at Ikea. General idea was that yes, the public is aware of the grade of junk they're getting, and I pointed out that I'm getting more calls from people tired of that stuff, and willing to pay for a better grade.
How "green" is it for us to treat natural renewable sources so shoddily that it ends up filling the landfills all the quicker.

Another fitting quote:
"There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey"
John Ruskin 1819 -1900

[Bruce Wrenn]

A trade magazine referred to it as "Curb Furniture." Two to three years, and it's at the curb on trash day.

[Jim Koepke]

"There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey"
John Ruskin 1819 -1900

Jeff, that is another of my favorite quotes. It used to hang on the walls of Baskin Robins ice cream shops. It has been a long time since my last visit to an ice cream shop.

jtk

[Steve Eure]

My youngest daughter just figured that out. she and her husband had always bought "curb furniture" because of the price. They have just bought their first home, had their first children (twins), and decided to buy new furniture. Sticker shock when looking for quality. They called me. Opted to have me make some for them. Of course Dad will do it for free, less cost of material, and then pay for some of the material anyways. Both quoted to me, "At least these will become heirloom pieces that will be handed down to their children".
I find that with this younger generation, they like to stay with the trends. Those trends. or fads, usually don't last very long. They can't afford to keep throwing stuff away. River tables anyone??
One thing that urks me is when somebody tries to give me that junk furniture thinking since I'm a woodworker, I can use the wood. No way Hosea! Got enough trash of my own.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Anything from the New York Times has me wondering - - what are they up to?

[Edward Weber]

Well, all I can say is I've had plenty of "curb"furniture" over the years, usually hand-me-downs. For those on a budget or in a certain financial situation, you do what you have to but when you can afford a higher level of quality, whether it's handmade or not go for it, you'll be glad you did.

I know from personal experience that a quality made piece of furniture can last several generations. I have a piece (small high boy dresser) that I got from my grandmother over 40 years ago, which still undergoes normal use. A well-made piece that was probably beyond 40 years old when I got it, and I know it will outlast me.

All the Sauder and other contact paper covered chipboard has, one by one, taken the long march to the dumpster.

[Ron Citerone]

As a woodworker and an established older dude, I don’t have room for any more furniture. However, if I was young and just getting started and wasn’t a woodworker. I’d be patiently looking ar CL and Marketplace to furnish my house. Lots of junk there, but some real solid gems to be had at reasonable prices IMO.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

There are several small custom furniture makers in this area. My wife has single handedly kept an Amish furniture maker in business between her purchases and referrals. She doesn't use a desk, they sit too low for her. She wanted a work table that sits at counter height. We were out for an afternoon drive and came across a small 10 x 10 hand painted sign that merely said custom furniture made. So we stopped in and met with an Amish woman, who said her hubby wasn't home. My wife and her talked for 30 minutes about what she wanted and the Amish woman gave us a tour of her husband's shop. several different rooms, the dusty one with the cutting and shaping machinery etc, another room for spraying finishes and drying, a third for showroom and storage.. The woman knew a lot more about the business than I would have expected. He orders some of the turned items, like table legs from Amish in Indiana, and he makes table tops from rough cut lumber that he kiln dries and planes himself. The woman got on the phone and called the supplier in Indiana on speaker phone and talked about getting 4 table legs made 8 inches longer than normal and had a price for the table worked out before she was off the phone. 3 foot by 8 ft table, black painted hardwood legs and frame of yellow poplar and natural table top of inch thick hard maple. $450, ready in three weeks. 3.5 weeks later, we picked up the table. I was impressed. My wife has purchased another 7 pieces from there and sent her friends.

A place near here is run by two brothers and a buddy of theirs. They make huge corporate conference tables. They have their own saw mill, kiln and storage warehouse for lumber. They have made tables over 4 ft across and 24 ft long from a single slab I didn't see it but heard they they made a huge George Nakashima style table for some eccentric guy that was 10 feet across made from a single cross cut red wood "cookie"

The furniture places are out there. But it is all local outlets. The large furniture stores are selling junk stuff make of composite wood and plastic. (my ex-wife's favorite furniture store was Ikea. Oh how I hated that stuff.)

[Stan Calow]

I am skeptical that any NYC-based journalists have their pulse on the thoughts and buying habits of a whole country. Maybe everyone in Manhattan was working from home offices, but most people I know still had to go somewhere to do their job. I cant think of anyone I know whose children wanted their hand-me-down old-fashioned furniture, regardless of heritage. People go to IKEA et al, because they dont want furniture that lasts forever. The people who have the money buy better quality commercial stuff. The people who dont have the money, buy that old heirloom stuff at estate sales and auctions for pennies.

[Jim Koepke]

I am skeptical that any NYC-based journalists have their pulse on the thoughts and buying habits of a whole country.

There are a couple of useful arrows in a good journalist's quiver called research and collaboration. Any journalist worth their salt consults with others and is able to do some market research. They don't just make it up.

One article states:

Inflation and supply chain issues impacted FY22 sales, and led to rising costs and higher prices. That means sales have grown in money, but sales quantities have not kept up," Inter IKEA said in a statement.

Less product is being sold at a higher price.

In my youth, before Ikea, we furnished our apartments with shelving made of boards and cinder blocks combined with mid century flea market.

Do people still have water beds?

jtk

[Rich Engelhardt]

There are a couple of useful arrows in a good journalist's quiver called research and collaboration. Any journalist worth their salt consults with others and is able to do some market research. They don't just make it up.That assumes that - NYT has journalists.

Let's not forget that, the NYT, invented the story of how Kitty Genovese's pleas for help went unanswered by 38 people who "didn't want to get involved" - - which they printed on the front page, two weeks after the incident.

I put zero stock in what the NYT has to say about anything.

[Jim Koepke]

Let's not forget that, the NYT, invented the story of how Kitty Genovese's pleas for help went unanswered by 38 people

I put zero stock in what the NYT has to say about anything.

Taking a little time to consult with Dr. Google on this indicates "the NYT, invented the story" is false. Kitty Genovese was attacked and died.

The "38 people" in the story came from:


the original number of 38 stems from the remarks made by then-New York City Police Commissioner Michael J. Murphy.

It seems the NYT committed an offense common in news rooms everywhere, publishing an article based on information provided by "reliable sources."

I'm skeptical of everything from any source. Especially the conspiracy theories spewed from those with a motive or agenda to bend reality. I do not see any source as 100% reliable all the time. Some are less than reliable at any time.

jtk

[Stan Calow]

I have no issue with the NYT or its reporting. I cant actually open the article in question anyway. I just see "stories" like this appear in my local newspaper in the real estate section, usually touting what's new and trends in home decorating, based on designer and realtor comments. And never does it reflect what I see in real life in my socioeconomic strata. I saw one last weekend, suggesting that people needed to remodel their kitchens if they had all the colors and materials from the 2010s. What goes on in the fashionable trendy neighborhoods on the coasts, doesn't translate to a national trend.

[Jim Koepke]

I just see "stories" like this appear in my local newspaper in the real estate section, usually touting what's new and trends in home decorating, based on designer and realtor comments. And never does it reflect what I see in real life in my socioeconomic strata. I saw one last weekend, suggesting that people needed to remodel their kitchens if they had all the colors and materials from the 2010s. What goes on in the fashionable trendy neighborhoods on the coasts, doesn't translate to a national trend.

Stan, I am confused. Your profile shows you in Kansas City. I'm not aware of "the fashionable trendy neighborhoods on the coasts" of Kansas City on which your "local newspaper" could be reporting.

A quote from the article stated, "according to a market data company." Such a company won't be in business very long if they are just making up stories. There is a whole world of investment professionals who "read the tea leaves" to see where their money (and other's money) will do best when invested. They likely subscribe to reports from market data companies as well as developing their own data and selling it to their own clients.

The article made me think maybe people have grown tired of furniture that needs to be replaced after a few years. This could signal an opportunity for folks in the business of making or selling quality furniture.

My folks had a business selling quality furniture. In the later part of the last century, more inexpensive furniture was hitting the market. Even before Ikea in the US this cut into their business.

I still have a few chairs I grew up using. Some of my grandchildren are using the same chairs that were in my family's dining room when I was a kid.

It is somewhat doubtful that much of the furniture from Ikea will be handed down through the generations. I have seen grandkids not wanting to get out of grandma's Windsor rocker at family gatherings for fear of someone else taking their seat.

jtk

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Yeah that old heirloom stuff is worthless. My GGGGF was a furniture maker in the early 1800's. He made a fancy china cabinet for each of his grandchildren. Only 5 are still known to exist of the 13 made. My mother has one of them. One sold at an auction near Reading PA 6 years ago, for $38K My ancestor is apparently a well known furniture maker and his stuff is valued by collectors. A shrunk, my cousin inherited sold 20 years ago for enough yo cover a down payment on an old colonial homestead .about 40 miles from Philadelphia. The house was built by another ancestor in the 1760's.

OTH, I know people who redo their homes every ten years. kitchen, change walls, re paint, different carpet, etc. The furniture goes every time they revamp the house.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Taking a little time to consult with Dr. Google on this indicates "the NYT, invented the story" is false. Kitty Genovese was attacked and died.No one said she wasn't. Neither did I.
What I said was, "Her pleas were unanswered by 38 people" was a total fabrication.
Here is the story - as printed in 1964 by the New York Times.
https://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics/Faculty/scraig/gansberg.html



It seems the NYT committed an offense common in news rooms everywhere, publishing an article based on information provided by "reliable sources.Hardly -Names were named and the story linked above, was written to give the impression that it was being related by an eye witness to the events - as they happened.
It's a very well written piece of - fiction.

The whole story was debunked about 15 or so years ago & even the NYT admits to being less than truthful.

NYT is all about sensationalism. They have been for decades. They don't report the news. They push agendas for profit.

[Stan Calow]

Rich, I omitted the part which said that my local newspaper, the KC Star, reprints syndicated articles from AP and other national news sources like NYT on subjects for which they do not have their own departments, which is most. I could have suggested looking at the "Mansion" section of the Wall Street Journal and seeing if the trends they report there are trickling down.

[Brian Elfert]

I have no issue with the NYT or its reporting. I cant actually open the article in question anyway. I just see "stories" like this appear in my local newspaper in the real estate section, usually touting what's new and trends in home decorating, based on designer and realtor comments. And never does it reflect what I see in real life in my socioeconomic strata. I saw one last weekend, suggesting that people needed to remodel their kitchens if they had all the colors and materials from the 2010s. What goes on in the fashionable trendy neighborhoods on the coasts, doesn't translate to a national trend.

A former co-worker of mine lived in an older apartment building near downtown Minneapolis. There were a number of large older, but well kept, houses across the street. He said the houses usually turned over about every two years. The first thing that happened as soon as somebody new moved in was a dumpster showed up and a remodeling project started. He said as often as those houses were remodeled that the new owners had to be replacing work that had been done within the last decade.