Walnut vs Cherry for cabinets?

[Bob Johnson2]

Has anyone built kitchen cabinets or such from walnut? I can get it for the same price as cherry so I'm torn between the 2. I've only made small items with walnut, boxes and such, and it seems to work easier then cherry but gets a bit of tear out. I like the appearances of both so from that angle it's a toss up, well, maybe I'm a bit partial to walnut. I really haven't used eiter enough to know how they'd work for large projects. Any opinions?

[Bill Webber]

Well, cherry is harder, tighter grained and doesn't require filler. Walnut is softer and open grained. Walnut is easier to work. Cherry burns easily. Cherry is more common for kitchen cabinets. Big help, eh? :rolleyes:

Bill W.

[Russ Massery]

I went the other way( lighter) I used maple. Walnut cabinets would look great but very dark. I would vote for cherry.

[Dale Thompson]

I went the other way( lighter) I used maple. Walnut cabinets would look great but very dark. I would vote for cherry.

Russ,
I agree. I LOVE working with Cherry! It smells great and will be less sensitive to dents and stuff than Walnut. On the other hand, Walnut is SOOOOO warm but not my favorite wood except for special anniversary clocks, jewelry boxes, etc.. :)

Also, in 5-10 years, the Cherry will probably be as dark as the Walnut. :eek:
I've got a Cherry mantle clock that is about 10 years old. When I made it, the color was almost pink. Now, on a cloudy day, I can't even SEE the clock!? ;) :confused: :)

Dale T.

[Bob Johnson2]

Hadn't thought about it being softer, that might be the clincher. It may well be too dark too. I used maple for the bathroom but by the time I got it to LOML's liking it is quite dark. SO I might as well use something darker to start with, hence walnut or cherry...

[Tom Drake]

I think the walnut would be very dark in the kitchen although it is a nice wood. I prefer either cherry or maple for kitchen cabinets.

[Gail O'Rourke]

I think that when anyone does something unusual, then it is great, I love the idea of Walnut for cabinets. You can use birch casework for the cases that you don't see to save money with Walnut face frames, doors and drawers. Also, with the right lighting planned into your remodel, you can set them off nicely.

let us know what you decide, and of course, take pictures.

[Karl Laustrup]

Bob, IMHO, I'd go with the cherry if your wife wants dark woods. Cherry darkens over time [somewhat quicker if the room gets a lot of sun], so I would keep that in mind when finishing cherry. I like finishing cherry natural and watching it darken and take on that special look that only comes with time.

If I may interject something that went into my thought process while picking out cabinets for our new home. While I love the look of cherry, I had to take into account the fact that our kitchen will get minimum amounts of natural light.

Because of this I chose natural [no stain] hickory. I've seen many kitchens with dark wood [stained or natural] that just make it seem like you're in a dungeon or something. Hickory is mostly a light wood, but can have dark sections.

Hey, that's my $1.398 worth. Off the soap box now. :o

[tod evans]

bob, i tend to recomend walnut for somber rooms such as a library or study. although pretty it`s very dificult to brighten up a room that`s dominated by dark cabinetry.......02 tod

[Steve Clardy]

Our new ones will be walnut, when i get roundtoit.
I'll have to ad a lot of can light though, as walnut cabs make the kitchen area dark.

[Barry Beech]

I would say that your decision should be determined by how much natural light you have in your kitchen.

My mother is an interior decorator and has put walnut in several kitchens in some higher end houses that have a lot of light.

I haven't seen them but she says they are some of the prettiest that she has done.

[Tom Jones III]

We have some builder grade cabinets in our kitchen that LOML refinished to a walnut color and it looks great. Our kitchen gets tons of light, natural and man-made.

Walnut is a real joy to work with. I've never thought about it being softer than cherry? That doesn't seem right to me, but I have not worked with much cherry. Walnut is a little harder to get in both high quality and high quantity.

[Bob Oehler]

Hey Bob:
I'm with Karl. HICKORY is a great kitchen wood.
I have Hickory in my kitchen and love it. It has darkened a little bit in 8 years but not much. It is salt and pepper so there is dark areas in a few areas it is almost black. No stain but to give you an idea if you took minwax golden oak and stained hickory it would be close.

Cherry is nice and looks good. It will darken with age as Karl said.

My love is black walnut but I think in a kitchen it would be too dark

That's my 2.33 9/10 (the price of a gal. of Regular at Go-Mart in Gallipolis Ohio 01/25/06):o

Take care
Bob Oehler

[Jim Becker]

Black walnut gets lighter over time...the air dried material that I use, in fact, gets to be a beautiful golden brown after about a year with UV and oxidation. But cherry is my first love...so I'm not much help either! This is largely a personal preference decision.

[Steve Cox]

Cherry starts out light and gets darker. Walnut starts out dark and gets lighter. I don't have a lot of experience with walnut interiors but I have looked a several pieces of walnut furniture that have received lots of natural light and I found them to be almost grayish looking and not all that attractive. These pieces were finished with oil and had not had it reapplied so I would expect walnut to do better with care but that's what I observed.

[Jerry Olexa]

I'm extremely partial to Cherry. Would look warmer in your kitchen I think.

[Tom Jones III]

Just thought about it, my BIL did his kitchen in virola and used cherry for the show pieces, might be a good way to get the price down.

[James Boster]

This is one of those "loaded" questions that really boil down to personal preference. I have built kitchen cabinets from both and they both work great. Cherry will darken with age but not near as dark as the walnut. BOY THAT HELPED YOU OUT A LOT HUH?:D I prefer walnut for furniture and cherry for cabinets if that helps but they are my two favorite woods to work with.;)

[Guy Boulianne]

Cherry starts out light and gets darker. Walnut starts out dark and gets lighter. I don't have a lot of experience with walnut interiors but I have looked a several pieces of walnut furniture that have received lots of natural light and I found them to be almost grayish looking and not all that attractive. These pieces were finished with oil and had not had it reapplied so I would expect walnut to do better with care but that's what I observed.

For 2004 Christmas, I have made a bunch of cutting board, some maple/walnut and some cherry/walnut. Mine is walnut, I use it so I also maintain it (re-oil) and it is still a nice very dark brown. My Mother's is a display piece more than a utility one and she had not re-oiled it in a full year..... and yes it was lokking bad, lighter and greyish, whan I visited her 3 weeks ago, I just applied a generous coat of Mystery oil (which is a mix of Linseed, Tung and mineral oil) and it recovered its nice color.

[Tom Donalek]

For what it's worth, Wenge veneer is 'hot' right now for facing cabinets in "Euro"/"Modern"/"Poggenpohl"/"whatever" style kitchens. Now that's dark!

[Bob Johnson2]

Thanks yet again all. Although I still don't know what to use (I still like walnut but I'm just the builder) I'll leave the type of wood up to my wife. Sounds like they both work well, although I'm a bit leary on the tendency I've had to burn cherry. This was before I bought my cab saw so it may be a non issue.
I've decided to pick up a bit of hickory (I've yet to see it), kind of scarce up here, but I can find some 4/4. Then finish a foot or so of each off and leave them laying around the kitchen for a week or so to let her decide.
The layout is very open if not a bit small, I think dark would be okay but I'll go over it with the boss when I finish the samples.
Any chance of someone posting a picture or two of their hickory cabinets?
Tom, FWIW, from looking ot the hardness tables, cherry and walnut are virtually the same 950 vs 1010 respectively, with cherry being a bit softer. I would have figured the other way round.

[Karl Laustrup]

although I'm a bit leary on the tendency I've had to burn cherry. This was before I bought my cab saw so it may be a non issue.
Any chance of someone posting a picture or two of their hickory cabinets?


Bob, I had a problem with burning cherry also. Until I got my Forrest WWII. Get a premium blade with your cab saw and I don't think you'll have much problem with burning.

I would be more than happy to post pictures, however I won't have a kitchen until late March. :o :eek: I will be posting some though as part of my "A New Home" series.

Karl

[Bob Johnson2]

Bob, I had a problem with burning cherry also. Until I got my Forrest WWII. Get a premium blade with your cab saw and I don't think you'll have much problem with burning.

I would be more than happy to post pictures, however I won't have a kitchen until late March. :o :eek: I will be posting some though as part of my "A New Home" series.

Karl

Karl
I have the WWII on my CS. I'll see the pics when you post them although it'll be a bit late, I'm going to pick up whatever I decide on the 2nd week of Mar when I'll be in Pa. I'll poke around the web some, got to be some hickory kitchens out there somewhere.

[Homer Faucett]

Cherry starts out light and gets darker. Walnut starts out dark and gets lighter. I don't have a lot of experience with walnut interiors but I have looked a several pieces of walnut furniture that have received lots of natural light and I found them to be almost grayish looking and not all that attractive. These pieces were finished with oil and had not had it reapplied so I would expect walnut to do better with care but that's what I observed.

I have seen older walnut that goes to a golden color, but have not seen it turn grey. That sounds like weathered wood.

I have a walnut coffee table that belonged to my great grandfather. It was finished with BLO and wax, and still looks nice and dark.

I hadn't realized that walnut is softer than cherry. That's good to know. Good thread.

[Dale Thompson]

Black walnut gets lighter over time...the air dried material that I use, in fact, gets to be a beautiful golden brown after about a year with UV and oxidation. But cherry is my first love...so I'm not much help either! This is largely a personal preference decision.

Jim,
I've always lived with the "old wive's tale" that dark woods get darker and light woods get lighter over time. :) Is Black Walnut an exception to this or is the whole concept wrong? :confused: I haven't done a lot of work with Black Walnut except for a few jewelry boxes and Anniversary Clocks. They were all given as gifts and I have lost track of them. :(

What is the REAL story on this: wood species/darkness/lightness/UV/ageing/etc. situation. :confused: :cool: :)

Dale T.

[Dale Thompson]

I won't have a kitchen until late March. :o :eek:
Karl

Hey Dells,
You are going to be REALLY hungry by late March! :( My cousin and her husband live in Lake Delton. I'll check with her and see if we can find a "soup kitchen" close to your "improvised" shelter! ;) :eek: :)

Dale T.

[brent lenthall]

Bob,

Don't forget to factor in extra waste when pricing the project in walnut. I believe FAS grading of walnut allows for more knots, etc. than cherry.

[Jim Schmoll]

I have only seen one walnut kitchen... GREAT and only gets warmer looking/feeling with age. You do need to have a lot of natural light to get the best look. I would think about going direct to a mill and not a hardwood dealer. A nother thought would be matching the grain and keep sapwood in your thought process. Sap wood is great for a wild looking pattern, my choice only.

Jim from Idyllwild CA

[Dale Thompson]

Bob,

Don't forget to factor in extra waste when pricing the project in walnut. I believe FAS grading of walnut allows for more knots, etc. than cherry.

Brent,
As I recall, the factor for Cherry is about 40% waste. :( If Walnut is greater, that could be a REALLY large number! ;) :eek: :)

Dale T.

[Jim Becker]

As I recall, the factor for Cherry is about 40% waste. If Walnut is greater, that could be a REALLY large number!

Waste factor for cherry is about 25-30%, I believe. FAS walnut allows for narrower and shorter material due to the nature of the trees...they rarely grow "straight", so getting clear material is harder. For that reason, it's a special case relative to grading.

[Gary Herrmann]

Ask your client what they like in terms of the natural color of the wood. SWMBO can't stand walnut for some reason, so I work with cherry a lot.

[Charlie Plesums]

I love walnut for just about anything, and hear that darker cabinets are the "coming thing" in kitchen designs. Cherry is a common wood for high end kitchens; walnut is just coming in with the move to darker cabinets. If that move goes "all the way" then walnut may be a great choice to be with the future, but if it doesn't catch on, you may have a beautiful kitchen but dated (like the avacado and gold color appliances from years ago)

Walnut apparently gets lighter over time, but the change is slow and relatively minor. Cherry gets darker over time, but the change is fast and substantial. I built a small box to show customers different wood, with each side a different material. In only a few years the cherry has become almost as dark as the walnut.

The zinger in walnut grading is that the government says sapwood is NOT a flaw, so lots of lumber yards are delivering wood that is largely sapwood. Grain and strength are fine - it really is walnut, but if you wanted brown wood rather than ivory colored, you are stuck. I have had deliveries that were more sapwood than heartwood, especially on one side, and thus almost useless for doors, etc. where you want dark wood on both sides.

In buying walnut I am torn between buying reasonable price lumber, even FAS grade, and calling half of it "secondary" wood for drawer bodies, etc., and buying premium wood at twice the price.

[Andy Fox]

We have cheap builder-installed cabinets with cherry-stained birch faces. They look great, and I haven't noticed any color change over the last 8 years.

I'm not a big walnut fan, and around here, it seems cherry anything is considered the ultimate high-end wood among home buyers.

[Dave Avery]

Is it a Wisconsin thing to refer to people by a nickname that relates to their home town?

[Bob Johnson2]

Bob,

Don't forget to factor in extra waste when pricing the project in walnut. I believe FAS grading of walnut allows for more knots, etc. than cherry.

Good to know, I didn't realize there were different formulas for different woods.
I was figuring 15% for either, time to rework some figures.

[Joe Stallard]

For what it's worth, I built a set of kitchen cabinets for a house 15 years ago, out of walnut. They looked beautiful and stood up to the usual bangs from 2 children growing up. The owners put the house up for sell but there was a restriction: They got to take the cabinets! The buyers asked if they paid for the same footage of cabinets could they keep the originals. When the buyers called for a quote, they decided they really didn't need the walnut cabinets. In the end, I removed the cabinets and put them into a new house. The old house has new ash cabinets with Honey Pine finish. I have built cherry cabinets and as someone said, they darken with age. If you want something really hard, try hickory!

[Dale Thompson]

:confused:
Is it a Wisconsin thing to refer to people by a nickname that relates to their home town?

Dave,
If you are referring to my personal posts, you can write it off to old age. :o As a kid, I was raised in a rather "rough" section of a town near where I now live. Every kid back then HAD to have a "nickname" of some sort to be fully "accepted". Every kid wanted a "nickname" and every kid GOT one! :) These "nicknames" were probably used to establish a dominant identity when we visited areas where the "rich folks" lived. It worked! :cool: In addition, however, we never even THOUGHT of using knives, guns, "drive-by" shootings or other forms of violence to get respect. Our "nicknames" were sufficient. ;) :cool:

Let's face it. How many uptown geeks did, "The Fonz" beat up on the old, "Happy Days Show"? If you guessed none, then you are right. That show was based on the era of the fifties when I was growing up. :)

Home towns have nothing to do with my "nickname" references to other folks on this Forum. As in the past, the "nicknames" that I use are symbols of respect, friendship, uniqueness and affection! :) As luck would have it, the only knowledge I have of these fine folks are their home towns. What are my choices? :confused:

Lastly, Dave, would you be offended if I answered a "Thread" started by you with the salutation, "Hey Hamp", etc., etc.. ? :)

Dale T.

[Dave Avery]

Dale,

Noticed that Karl L. refers to John M. as "Spring", too, so that's why I thought it might be localized to the upper-midwest. So the real question is, what was your nickname? ;)

[Karl Laustrup]

Dale,

Noticed that Karl L. refers to John M. as "Spring", too, so that's why I thought it might be localized to the upper-midwest. So the real question is, what was your nickname? ;)

Yeah Dave, John became "Spring" because of his proximity to Spring Green, Wisconsin. In reality his nick name should be "Really Super All Around Nice Guy". :) Too long and doesn't have the same ring as "Spring". :)

And seeing as how there are a whole slug of John's here, I kinda gave him the "Spring" moniker for ease of recognition here at the "Creek".

I'm not sure what Dale's old nickname was, but here, at least from me, it's "Pesh". Again that's easier than "Old Coot From Way Up in the Hinterlands of Wisconsin, 50 miles north of Green Bay". ;) :D

Check out this thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29903 .

John H. ["Frick"] and Keith C. ["Frack"] have nicknames now also.

Just having some fun. Not trying to rile or disrespect anybody and if the nicknamed folks are offended, I'll stop. I know I've been called worse than "Dells". :D It don't really matter what you call me, just as long as it's not late for a meal. ;) :D

Karl

P.S. Pesh, in case you can't tell from my avatar, I'm not missing any meals. :eek: :D And Bob 2, sorry not trying to steal your thread.

[Bob Johnson2]

Here's a shot of the options I showed my wife. The walnut on the left, and cherry in the center are single coated with clear semi gloss, the maple on the right is a dk mahogany WB dye and semi-gloss. She likes the maple the best, I'm leary of it because the white wood shows through if nicked. Do the folks that use cherry darken it or leave it natural to darken on it's own? Seems pretty light in natural. I never noticed how open the grain of walnut is till I compared them this way.

[Scott Scheife]

I did my kitchen last fall with cherry and love the look. I stained it with a Zar Cherry stain and then sprayed with Sherwin Williams Conversion varnish. I could not be happier witht he look and finish. Best of all my wife loves it.

[philip marcou]

Bob, I think you should check with the Management. The tone of the kitchen could affect her general demeanour, and there could be a decline in output and quality, which is not good for you.
I think Walnut is too dark for a modern kitchen.

[Dale Thompson]

Dale,

Noticed that Karl L. refers to John M. as "Spring", too, so that's why I thought it might be localized to the upper-midwest. So the real question is, what was your nickname?

Dave,
My nickname was "Ace". :) Unfortunately, it had nothing to do with the fact that I shot down 17 enemy planes when I was helping Hannibal defeat the Romans. :D

In MY case, "Ace" was an abbreviation for "AACCKE!" or however you spell the word for defining the sub-human sound during regurgetation! Remember, it was all in fun and the true meaning of "Ace" was only known by MY friends! :cool: :o :)

Dale T.

[Dave Avery]

Dave,
My nickname was "Ace". :) Unfortunately, it had nothing to do with the fact that I shot down 17 enemy planes when I was helping Hannibal defeat the Romans. :D

In MY case, "Ace" was an abbreviation for "AACCKE!" or however you spell the word for defining the sub-human sound during regurgetation! Remember, it was all in fun and the true meaning of "Ace" was only known by MY friends! :cool: :o :)

Dale T.


Thanks Dale.....:)