Shaper rabbeting cutter question

[Mike Stelts]

I need a 1.25" bore rabbet cutter and would like to know your experiences using an insert cutter versus a shear cutter. Does it matter much? I ask because of the significant price difference, while losing the ability to use different knives.

Also, is there any advantage to steel, other than longevity, e.g. harder to strip the screws? I won't be using them in a production situation. My longest production runs last a day and the next one might be six months later.

Here are four examples:

steel shear (https://www.toolstoday.com/v-7718-61482.html) $252
AL shear (https://www.toolstoday.com/v-9082-61484.html) $180
steel insert (https://www.toolstoday.com/v-8985-61472.html) $123
AL insert (https://www.toolstoday.com/v-8982-61465.html) $102

Thanks,
Mike

[Phillip Mitchell]

Mike,

I don’t have exact comparative experience / answers, but can say I have had the Amana steel shear - 61482 - for a year or so now and it has never disappointed me. Only way I could see the cut quality improved is possibly an helical carbide setup but is generally overkill for rabbeting. I get very clean results with the 61482 and have done some pretty deep and heavy cuts with it in fickle material (like Doug Fir) and had very good results. I don’t have enough experience to compared Alum to Steel bodies for this application but I do think the shear cutting knife is worth the extra over straight.

I have also done shorter, cabinet door sizes tenoning (one cheek at a time) with a coping sled with the same head and been impressed with the results. Not quick and can be finicky to dial in exactly due to having to reference from both sides, but that’s more a process thing and nothing to do with cut quality, which was excellent.

My production level sounds similar to you, though I certainly bring out the rabbeting block for most projects, just not processing miles and miles of anything. Pretty much always custom one-offs around here and furniture parts or lighter duty architectural Millwork typically.

[Mel Fulks]

I suggest the “corg heads “ . Only drawback is getting exact depth. Fortunately, Mel has 3 ball -bearing collars of slightly different diameters that he no longer needs and
is willing to sell.

[Bill Dufour]

I do not see any distinction between shear and insert. Isn't it just depending on the insert angle? Are they saying you can not use a different insert in the same pocket and change the angle or use a pocket shim.
BILL D

[Jared Sankovich]

I have both straight and alternating shear heads from amana. The shear leave a better finish, but doesn’t cut a perfectly flat face. Because of the shear angle of the straight knives it cuts a slight radius. It's never been an issue for me but something to be aware of.

[Greg Quenneville]

You can purchase a combination block from Whitehill that is both a rabbet head and an insert head. The people that have them like them, and you can then use their high quality 55mm inserts.

They recently had a price increase, but you might get it cheaper at Axminister

https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutter-heads/combi-heads/CBS004V3/

[brent stanley]

I need a 1.25" bore rabbet cutter and would like to know your experiences using an insert cutter versus a shear cutter. Does it matter much? I ask because of the significant price difference, while losing the ability to use different knives.

Also, is there any advantage to steel, other than longevity, e.g. harder to strip the screws? I won't be using them in a production situation. My longest production runs last a day and the next one might be six months later.

Here are four examples:

steel shear (https://www.toolstoday.com/v-7718-61482.html) $252
AL shear (https://www.toolstoday.com/v-9082-61484.html) $180
steel insert (https://www.toolstoday.com/v-8985-61472.html) $123
AL insert (https://www.toolstoday.com/v-8982-61465.html) $102

Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike, Tools today seem to be using odd terminology as they'd both be considered "insert" heads because they take carbide inserts. Some are arranged on a shearing angle where some are not. The shear cutters will give you a better cut more consistently, though the straight cutters will often do a great job. Since the rebate block will be your most used block in your collection, I suggest a steel block as they're more durable and a shear cut as it will give a cleaner cut when the grain gets challenging. The shear cutter (as Jared says) will give a really mild, shallow radiused cut but when this was discussed a couple of years ago here, some old veteran experts didn't even know it happened so it's rarely ever an issue. I probably have 4 rebate blocks but my most heavily used one is the combi referred to above.

B

[Mike Stelts]

Thanks for the help, everyone. I was tempted by the Whitehill; but, Axminster only sells 30mm bore and its $230 plust shipping from Whitehill. Instead, I shifted gears slightly. I'll start out with the 30mm Amana (https://www.toolstoday.com/v-8984-61470.html?qty=1) and see how it goes. I chose this size, because I already have some 30mm profile knives that I used on my 3Hp shaper. If I need more, Tools Today has lots of 30mm, nothing taller. If I need to rabbet (or edge) more than 1" in the future, I'll pick up a larger shear cut.

I have one more question: Has anyone tried Tools Today Solid Carbide Diamond-Like Carbon (DLC) Coated Insert Knives (https://www.toolstoday.com/solid-carbide-diamond-like-carbon-dlc-coated-insert-knives.html)?

[Jared Sankovich]

Thanks for the help, everyone. I was tempted by the Whitehill; but, Axminster only sells 30mm bore and its $230 plust shipping from Whitehill. Instead, I shifted gears slightly. I'll start out with the 30mm Amana (https://www.toolstoday.com/v-8984-61470.html?qty=1) and see how it goes. I chose this size, because I already have some 30mm profile knives that I used on my 3Hp shaper. If I need more, Tools Today has lots of 30mm, nothing taller. If I need to rabbet (or edge) more than 1" in the future, I'll pick up a larger shear cut.

I have one more question: Has anyone tried Tools Today Solid Carbide Diamond-Like Carbon (DLC) Coated Insert Knives (https://www.toolstoday.com/solid-carbide-diamond-like-carbon-dlc-coated-insert-knives.html)?

That head doesn't take profile knives.

You want 61248 if you intend to run 40mm euro knives.

61484, 61470, 61248
488777

[Mike Stelts]

Thanks for catching my blunder, Jared.

[brent stanley]

Thanks for catching my blunder, Jared.

Mike, Whitehill's small combi is available in your bore diameter and it combines the common Euroblock style head for your 40mm knives and a shear cut rebate block with spurs in one head. Having two separate heads is better, but this is the cheaper option vs two blocks. Around $210 USD today.

[Mike Stelts]

I close out this thread with more information I learned. Amana shear cutters have four blades, combi heads have two. This may account for the price difference. Amana rabbet knives are different than the combi head insert knives. You can't have knickers and a cutter that takes 40mm profile insert knives.

[Jared Sankovich]

I close out this thread with more information I learned. Amana shear cutters have four blades, combi heads have two. This may account for the price difference. Amana rabbet knives are different than the combi head insert knives. You can't have knickers and a cutter that takes 40mm profile insert knives.

Some of the amana shear heads are 2z and some are 4z. The 4z are more expensive.

[brent stanley]

I close out this thread with more information I learned. Amana shear cutters have four blades, combi heads have two. This may account for the price difference. Amana rabbet knives are different than the combi head insert knives. You can't have knickers and a cutter that takes 40mm profile insert knives.

Yes that's right, the combi heads also have slots accepting knives and limiters for 40mm knives, which take up room around the circumference so there's no room for a second pair of carbide rebate cutters. The combi is a much more sophisticated block but as a consequence is only a Z2 shear when in "Rebate mode".