Sb #5

[Jerry Thompson]

Many years ago I got a Hock plane iron and chip breaker for a #5 I had. I just unearthed it. As I recall the plane mouth has to be enlarged. The way things look a good deal of metal will have to be removed.
Would it be advisable to start out with a bastard file the go with a @2 on down to a fine?
Thank you.

[Jim Koepke]

In a word NO! This would only be considered it you are wanting to set the #5 up as a scrub plane. In that case the original blade would be fine. Save the Hock iron for smoothing or flattening.

The cast iron, being soft, comes off very fast.

Is the frog set even with the back of the mouth?

Unless you plane's mouth is really tight, you might not need to remove much.

One suggestion when opening the mouth of a plane is to file at an angle so the mouth is wider at the top than at the bottom.

The mouth should only need to be opened enough to pass the thickest shaving you intend to make.

jtk

[steven c newman]

First question....what was even wrong with the original iron/chipbreaker?
Yes you can get the new, thicker irons....thick enough that the "chipbreaker" is about worthless.

A No. 5 sized plane is a JACK plane...NOT a smoother....though, it can be forced to act like one.....and doesn't really need a "tight" mouth, anyway....

take that Hock blade and install it in a No. 4 sized smoother....find where you tossed the old iron, sharpen it up, mate it to the chipbreaker it came with, and put that Jack plane to work as a Jack Plane...btw..add a slight camber to the old iron....it MIGHT even still have a bit left....

last question...why did you feel the need to move the frog forward in the first place? All that will do is cause the plane to chatter...as you lost any support for the iron...

The old "Thick blade to reduce chatter .." Myth....Marketing Hype....meh...

[Jerry Thompson]

I was given the Hock blade and chip breaker. The original blade was not usable for many reasons. I'm sure I'll get it all figured out as I have already made some progress.
Thank you.

[Mike Brady]

Jerry, I have used many Hock irons in vintage Stanley planes, but never had to file a mouth or otherwise alter the plane to accommodate them. I found that the Hock irons were just marginally thicker than the original Stanley irons. The frog is adjustable forward and backward. Make sure that frog is not intruding too far into the mouth opening and pinching the iron.

[Jerry Thompson]

Mike, I found the problem and I am going to fix it as soon as I get a nap.
Thanks.

[Jerry Thompson]

Mike, I have messed with the plane. I believe I have the frog all the way back. When I adjust the iron to cut it fills up the mouth completely and is in contact with the outward mouth edge.
I am not sure that I have the adjustment parts working properly. I found an old #5 iron and will give it a shot to see what is what in the next day or so.
It should be understood that I possess mechanical abilities. What I have accomplished so far is from Youtube videos.

[Jim Koepke]

I believe I have the frog all the way back.

Jerry, you do not want the frog "all the way back."

You want the face of the frog to be in the same plan as the bevel at the back of the plane's mouth.

Here is a very old post on fettling (rehabilitating) an old plane > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373 < The tenth post (in linier mode) has information on setting up the frog.

Posting images in cases like this can be very helpful.

jtk

[Rob Luter]

I had an issue like Jerry is having. I had a Sweetheart Era #6 that I found at a garage sale. The iron was about shot so I got a Hock replacement. I always align the surface of the frog to the angled portion of the bed as Jim suggests. This particular plane had such a tight mouth that no amount of adjustment would accommodate the thicker iron. I wasn't about to start filing it. I made do with the original and put the Hock in a drawer. Some months later I found a #7 in immaculate condition. The mouth in that plane accommodated the hock iron just fine. I sold the #6 and the buyer appreciated the original iron and the tight mouth.

[Jerry Thompson]

488762

I am at the point I have no idea if I'm doing things correctly. I installed and old plane iron but had to use the Hock chip breaker. The iron still is tight in the mouth. Could you take me step by step how to install and adjust the frog including the correct installation of the adjusting parts? I am at the point I really cannot move the iron fore or aft. Please cite the items noted on the diagram. I don't have a camera with the right lens for a pic. I have no Smart Phone.
Thank you.

[David Bassett]

Using your parts diagram numbers, you want to remove the #1a Plane Iron assembly. You want to shift the #6 Frog assembly fore or aft. To do so you will need to loosen both #10 Frog Screws so they make contact, but are not tight. (You want the frog assembly to be able to slide fore / aft easily, but to not wobble.) Then you turn the #46 Frog Adjusting Screw to move the frog unit.

You want to position the #6 Frog assembly so the iron bed is flush with the back of the mouth opening in the #16 "Bottom", or Body, of the Plane. I find a small steel rule and feeling the surface for a lip (from misalignment) helpful in judging when it's in the right spot.

Once it's aligned you'll want to snug up both #10 screws, without shifting the #6 Frog assembly, so it won't move. (Note that you shouldn't have to over do the tighten. Someone someday will want to remove the screws again.)

[Jerry Thompson]

I got it done. I had been doing it closely to your instructions before. I find that the #5 iron I thought was an original isn't. The Hock blade will not project into the mouth as it buts up against the forward edge.
I'm loathe to file the mouth as I am not good at such things and there will be no going back. I wouldn't really know how to address filing the mouth. Would one remove material all along the mouth angle? It seems one would need a safe file when working the right and left mouth edges to avoid "notching" those areas.

[Jim Koepke]

I got it done. I had been doing it closely to your instructions before. I find that the #5 iron I thought was an original isn't. The Hock blade will not project into the mouth as it buts up against the forward edge.
I'm loathe to file the mouth as I am not good at such things and there will be no going back. I wouldn't really know how to address filing the mouth. Would one remove material all along the mouth angle? It seems one would need a safe file when working the right and left mouth edges to avoid "notching" those areas.


Is the blade hitting the front of the mouth or is it the chip breaker? You may have set the chip breaker too close to the edge of the blade.

If you have some thick tape, you can use that on the sides of the plane for protection when filing. That and working carefully should avoid any damage.

In you illustration it shows the top front of the mouth being rounded. Start filing on that area to make this area angled. Try to do this without removing any metal from the bottom of the opening. Check by installing the blade often, because the cast iron is soft and comes off fast.

Once the top is opened, if it is still clogging shavings you can work on opening the mouth a little more. Remember it is always easy to take off too much. It is impossible to put it back. So CHECK OFTEN.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

This sketch is not to scale, but it will give you an idea of what to do.

If the iron and chipbreaker come too close or touch the front of the mouth, there may be room to move the frog back a bit to gain clearance. See the picture, if the bevel heel of the iron is long enough it will allow you to move the frog back.

Next, the iron and chipbreaker may come so close to the front of the mouth that your shavings will choke at that point. Using a suitable file, remove metal from the front of the mouth at an angle, as indicated in the drawing. This will let you create a space for the shavings to pass through without enlarging the mouth.

488781

If after all this, if the iron and chipbreaker assembly don't fit, your choices are to enlarge the mouth or get a replacement set.

It goes without saying that this is a deliberate process, take your time filing, protect the sides with some tape if you want, remove the knob to avoid scoring it by accident.

Rafael

P.S. Even though I have not used a Hock iron and chipbreaker, I do use thicker replacement irons. I would suggest you use the original chipbreaker, since it is a better design, if it is in good shape.

[Jerry Thompson]

I am begging to wonder if the wrong CB and Iron were sent to my friend who gave them to me. I would have to file the chip breaker back a great deal to make room in the mouth. I cannot get the little tit that fits into the CB slot to come even close to entering it.
I am to the point that I'll find someone who may know what they are doing and gift it to them.

[Jim Koepke]

I am begging to wonder if the wrong CB and Iron were sent to my friend who gave them to me. I would have to file the chip breaker back a great deal to make room in the mouth. I cannot get the little tit that fits into the CB slot to come even close to entering it.
I am to the point that I'll find someone who may know what they are doing and gift it to them.


Jerry, here is a chart that you can use to see if yours is the correct chip breaker for your plane:

489301 Dimensions are in inches.

Other maker's chip breakers used different dimensions. Even Stanley had some odd ducks on their transitional planes. This is one reason my tendency is to try to have all my planes from the same maker.

jtk

[Jerry Thompson]

Thanks Jim. I'll go do the measuring after a bit. Right now I am feeling sorry for myself as I have had four projects go awry in the past three days. Not whining as I'm sure we have all had this happen.

[Jerry Thompson]

The holes are off. A= 3 11/16, B=3.54. C=2.5
I think I'll find the correct CB.

Thanks

[Jerry Thompson]

I got it. I assumed the frog adjustment screw was all the way back. There was gunk in it and blew it out and lubricated it. A few turns back did the trick.
Now I will sharpen it tomorrow.
Thanks everyone.

[Jack Dover]

There's a belief that a thicker blade is less prone to chatter. Which is truth indeed, but only if everything else is loose. A properly set up original iron doesn't chatter either. Also sometimes original irons are not available or too expensive, not too long ago a NOS iron assembly for #10 (a carriage maker plane) was quoted about 25% higher than Hock's assembly, apparently because "it's a real old steel, they don't make 'em like that anymore" (I kid you not). Mine just fit, no modifications were required, but I also vaguely recall that only some Stanley planes required opening a mouth, most of them could accommodate a thicker iron assembly just fine.

[Jack Dover]

Do you have pictures?

[Jerry Thompson]

No. Maybe later in the month when I get it all spiffed up.

[Jack Dover]

Well, it's really hard to give any sort of advice without seeing the tool.