Securing hutch top to stone wall

[Bob Riefer]

For many years we have had a cheap & ugly (but functional) one-piece "hutch" in our entry way. The bottom is basically a toybox (we keep shoes in there) and the top is a mirror, some hooks, and a top shelf (great for hanging coats, stowing gloves and hats etc.

I am building a nicer and more functional version, but am doing it as 2 pieces this time - this area has a stone wall that we'd like to see more of, so this approach blocks less of the wall. The bottom toybox portion will simply sit on the floor, but the upper portion will need to be wall mounted. Please note that the stone is "field stone" with lots of variations in size/shape which creates a not-that-flat surface, and about 1 inch mortar joints.

My plan of attack is to pre-drill into the mortar and secure a cleat where the top of the hutch will be, and another near the bottom of where the hutch will be. The cleats will be shimmed so that they create a common plumb surface to attach the hutch to.

The hutch top will have a false back that is recessed so that I can affix the hutch to the cleats while also concealing them.

Does this seem like a reasonable approach?

[Rich Engelhardt]

Sounds word for word what I was going to type.

(knowing me like I do, It's probably the worst possible way to do it...sorry - I'm sort of a jinx that way)

[Jim Becker]

Yes, that's how I would build this. If you really want to be creative, you'll extend the sides/bottom/top farther and use an extra temporary cleat to hold it off the wall and then scribe the case so it fits the stone exactly. THAT will turn some heads of folks "who know" about such things. :)

[Bob Riefer]

I had thought of scribing and it seems very achievable... My wife's concern was that we may leave this house in a couple years, and she would want to take this with us (i.e., the scribing wouldn't match the next home's wall). It dawns on me just at this time that I could trim the scribing off at a future time to square it up.

All that to say this... Yes, I think I shall scribe after all ;)


Also, thank you both for confirming the method for securing to the wall!

[Jim Becker]

Just calculate the "hidden depth" such that if you need to cut off the scribing in the future, there's enough left for your regular cleat. That would make the cabinet a hair deeper than you need, now, but leave enough material so you can take a track saw "around the world" and make it a simple rectangle again if you need to.

[Tom M King]

I would use expansion bolts, and mount it clear of the stone slightly. I've done similar, and threaded the ends of the bolts with extra length to be able to use backer nuts. Set the backer nuts by a level for plumb.

It's next to impossible to achieve a perfect scribe to stonework. One place might be a little bit too deep, and then you have to redo the whole length. In the first house I built in 1974, I built a complete stone surround fireplace, and fitted all the trim beams to it. I never did that again, but fit the stonework to the wood from then on. Much easier that way.

[Bill Dufour]

French cleats?
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

French cleats?
Bill D
Yes, that's what we have been discussing.

[glenn bradley]

I would use expansion bolts, and mount it clear of the stone slightly. I've done similar, and threaded the ends of the bolts with extra length to be able to use backer nuts. Set the backer nuts by a level for plumb.

It's next to impossible to achieve a perfect scribe to stonework. One place might be a little bit too deep, and then you have to redo the whole length. In the first house I built in 1974, I built a complete stone surround fireplace, and fitted all the trim beams to it. I never did that again, but fit the stonework to the wood from then on. Much easier that way.

Tom's got it. No surprise there ;-)

When mounting to masonry the grout is your weakest attachment point. If you want the mounting to be removable you can't really drill into the stone which would be my preference. You will have to use the grout so it can be replaced when you leave. In the case of grout mounting it becomes a matter of distributing the load; many more fasteners so the load is shared across the comparatively delicate grout.

Mounting cleats or a backing panel as Tom describes will yield the least damage when you remove. I would generally push the free-standing design idea when backing up to a stone wall. If the client won't budge, a standoff panel or cleat system is my next choice.

[Bob Riefer]

Thanks guys!

(In this case, "client" = "wife"... and she wants two pieces so she can see more of the wall... happy wife... you know the rest)

[Tom Bender]

How much load can the stone wall carry? It may be more decorative than structural and you could pull it apart. Can you design a free standing unit with lighter framing? Maybe use some steel rods painted black, maybe just add standoffs from the wall so it won't fall over.

[Bob Riefer]

Hey Tom!

Tough to scientifically say exactly, but I think the wall is quite strong... The previous owner had a couple anchors in place and they are damn near impossible to remove. I think I would use 3-4 fasteners for both the upper and lower cleat, and that is mostly resisting shear forces because the the upper portion of the hutch will be pretty streamlined and wall-hugging with a 12" deep top shelf being the deepest dimension.

I do think that if hooks were overly loaded up with school backpacks or similar, weight would become a watch-out.... but our kids have a mudroom organizer for their heavy gear, so this will only receive coats and mittens.

488581

[Tom Bender]

Nice wall

Another way to add interest and ease of construction would be to hang the upper section from rods or chains.

I'm trying to drag you out of the box.

[Jim Becker]

As it may be material, if that's a "stone wall" then there's likely no issue supporting the load with proper anchors. If it's "stone veneer", then you have to take more care because it's not structural..