Sliding table saw crosscut fence position: "front" or "rear"?

[Dan Friedrichs]

I usually have my slider crosscut fence on the "front", such that when you push the slider forward, the wood is pushed against the fence. This seems safer and more consistent.

487626

However, the outrigger arm runs out of travel and limits the distance between the fence and the blade in this configuration to something quite short (3', maybe?). To use the full slider stroke, the fence needs to be moved to the "rear".

487629

Dumb question, but: is that "normal" and just the nature of the design of the outrigger?

Are my concerns about the wood being pushed against the fence valid? Or is it typical to have the fence in the "rear" position?

[Greg Quenneville]

Every picture of a panel saw in a pro shop that I have seen is with the fence at the back of the slider. I have tried both and now only use the back position.

[Kevin Jenness]

Yes, that's normal. Having the fence in the front position requires less reaching for narrow workpieces but limits the effective travel. Shops that cut sheet goods will almost always have the fence at the back. I keep mine at the back because it makes it easier to use a fresh backer on every cut to prevent spelching.

[Warren Lake]

maybe im not getting it but the back position is the back as you stand using the saw. The front position is the second and furthest position as you stand using the saw. It allows you to cut wider in smaller sliders in that position.

In that position you are holding the material behind fence and need to be holding on. In the position id call the rear which is closest to the operator the material is pushed against the fence. Your first photo id call the rear, your second photo id call the front. Been told people have had kick backs in the front position if the material moved away from the fence during the cut. hence clamping that some have a good thing.

On my past mickey mouse sliding tables one on each side of the table saw they were always in the rear position.

[Albert Lee]

the first photo is rear, the second photo is front.

rear for solid timber, less kick back
front for sheet goods.

[Bryan Hall]

I keep my fence at the back of the slider. I push the wood into the fence with 1/2 of my F&F and it works great. I did try both ways, but if the scoring blade is up I don't like how it can grab and throw the wood forward into the main blade when the fence is closest to me.

[mark mcfarlane]

I have the fence 'as far from me as possible'. The fence hits the blade before the wood.

Why? I probably saw too many pictures with that setup. It seems to work fine but I do see the advantages of not having to lean so far on small pieces, and having the wood pushed into the fence during the cut. I cut sheet goods and have the saw set up to accurately cut 8' at 90 degrees. I don't want to move the fence, ever. It never re-registers perfectly. I took it off for a covid dinner a couple years ago and wasted several hours recalibrating it.

Many people set the fence to push into the blade, as you do, so the blade hits the wood before the fence. There are advantages to both setups. I want the absolute full throw to cut 8' sheet goods and to glue-ready joint hardwoods.

My minimax slider came with a couple clamps. I typically set one clamp before cutting.

[Jim Becker]

I use the smaller "miter" fence on my slider more than the larger outrigger and I keep it at the back of the wagon so it's pushing material through the cut fully supported by the fence. It's the equivalent of a crosscut sled or even the standard miter bar for a cabinet saw. So on my machine, the smaller miter fence is a "pusher" and the larger outrigger is a "puller", but in that case, it's likely larger material that I'm also pushing into the fence and is often clamped down.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Thanks for the replies (and sorry for flipping the front/rear terminology from what most are used to, apparently!).

Makes sense to have the fence closer to you for solid woods and narrow pieces.
Makes sense to have the fence further away for sheet goods.

Too bad there's not an easier, precisely-calibrated way to switch between...

[Kevin Jenness]

Too bad there's not an easier, precisely-calibrated way to switch between...

There should be - a fence that doesn't come off and go back on square is scarcely worth having.

[mark mcfarlane]

Some sliders come with two crosscut fences. I think that is standard on all Minimax's sold in the USA, just part of the base bundle.

So one could set up two fences and remove the short fence closest to your body as needed. It would be great if you could just slide the crosscut part of the fence off a base to get it out of the way, and to avoid the recalibration step after removing a fence,....

There may be some higher end saws that make recalibration unnecessary.

[Derek Cohen]

I usually have my slider crosscut fence on the "front", such that when you push the slider forward, the wood is pushed against the fence. This seems safer and more consistent.


However, the outrigger arm runs out of travel and limits the distance between the fence and the blade in this configuration to something quite short (3', maybe?). To use the full slider stroke, the fence needs to be moved to the "rear".


Dumb question, but: is that "normal" and just the nature of the design of the outrigger?

Are my concerns about the wood being pushed against the fence valid? Or is it typical to have the fence in the "rear" position?

Dan, the choice appears to come down to the length of the wagon, and what material you generally saw.

I have the Hammer K3 with a short stroke wagon (it is termed 1250mm but cuts 1350mm). This suits me very well as I do not work with sheet goods, other than quarter sections at any rate. 99% solid wood. My crosscut fence sits at the start of the wagon.

Old photo from when the K3 cam to live, about 6 or 7 years ago …

https://i.postimg.cc/xCWpz4Sp/10a.jpg

Interestingly, on my previous tablesaw, a contractor type, there was a cast iron slider system, and the wagon was also at the front …

https://i.postimg.cc/76Ft7xZL/B6-zps95d32b52.jpg

The purpose of this slider was clearly just cross-cutting. The position of the wagon made for easier pushing of workpieces, and there amount of travel was less.

This is not different for the short-stroke K3, however I do also use the slider for ripping. With the crosscut fence at the front, it took me a little while to realise that, for jigs such as the F&F to be effective, everything needs to be reversed. Once you get your head around this, then the potential of the slider-as-a-ripping-tool becomes apparent. Otherwise it is extra work for less return and you wonder if something is being missed as all other users (with fences at the rear) describe different experiences.

A reversed F&F looks like this ….

https://i.postimg.cc/d1jswDLh/FF1a.jpg

Here, you use the crosscut fence, and then the workpiece (you can just make out the section of wood on the wagon) is held against the fence … and then locked down (to prevent being pushed backward) …

https://i.postimg.cc/SRQysqMD/FF4a.jpg

I also have a hold down built into the crosscut fence protractor …

https://i.postimg.cc/05JMgc3Y/Crosscut-Fence-Zero-Clearance2-html-m7d7e0fa3.jpg

This make is easy to clamp parts alongside the blade.

The photo below has a wooden Zero Clearance subfence for mitres (I was sawing mitres for a case). The subfence is attached with clamps, but you can see the holddown in the background …

https://i.postimg.cc/pX8Kd4kv/2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Let me know if you plan to go this way, and I can show you other methods I have developed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Stone (CT)]

I usually have my slider crosscut fence on the "front", such that when you push the slider forward, the wood is pushed against the fence. This seems safer and more consistent.

However, the outrigger arm runs out of travel and limits the distance between the fence and the blade in this configuration to something quite short (3', maybe?). To use the full slider stroke, the fence needs to be moved to the "rear".


Dumb question, but: is that "normal" and just the nature of the design of the outrigger?

Are my concerns about the wood being pushed against the fence valid? Or is it typical to have the fence in the "rear" position?



I have the same K3 saw/outrigger as you and, yes, the design means that the maximum stroke is available only with the the fence in the rear position (which I personally think of as the "forward" position, since that's its relationship to the workpiece and blade). IMO, having the fence ahead of the workpiece does increase the chances the cutting action may cause the workpiece to rotate away from the fence, which is obviously not good and potentially dangerous--so you are right to ask this question. That said, in my experience and judgment, many workpieces can be held safely and securely with hand pressure with the fence forward--at least, the type of workpieces generated by the sort of projects I do as a hobbyist. However, it becomes important/necessary to forgo hands and instead use a hold down or otherwise fixture the stock in place when dealing with: (a) short pieces that would locate hands too close to the blade and, to make matters worse, lack much registration against the fence to begin with; (b) pieces that involve lots of blade contact, like a tilted cut or really thick stock; and (c) certain rectangular panels where it's a short side that bears against the fence.

In practice, I always use my saw with the fence in the rear a/k/a forward position487645. For one thing, the maximum cross cut on the setup I have would decline to around 24 in. with the fence in the other position. Also, as a matter of safety, I prefer loading and unloading the saw with as much room as possible between the workpiece and spinning blade.

[Kevin Jenness]

There may be some higher end saws that make recalibration unnecessary.

My Paoloni is scarcely a high end saw but the fence setup is simple. A pin drops into the inboard end of the extension table, an adjustable stop bolt in the far end registers the fence in position and a clamp in the middle holds it in place. The Griggio I used had the same system. I remove and replace my crosscut fence often and would hate having to fiddle with it every time. It doesn't seem too much to ask from the manufacturers.

[Mark e Kessler]

All of the sliders that I have owned or used when working for others are dead nuts front or rear, there should be a way to adjust for both.



Thanks for the replies (and sorry for flipping the front/rear terminology from what most are used to, apparently!).

Makes sense to have the fence closer to you for solid woods and narrow pieces.
Makes sense to have the fence further away for sheet goods.

Too bad there's not an easier, precisely-calibrated way to switch between...

[Warren Lake]

only had one so far but this older SCM has great adjustment possible and its dead on with on and off. LIkely the same way as the full size largest models of the time.

[Rich Markiewicz]

Hi Derek - Who manufactures the cam holddown in your last photo of this post? I have the Felder holddown for my Hammer C3 [it is a beast], yours appears different. Thanks, Rich M.

[Derek Cohen]

Rich, I am not sure that this will help ...

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?281196-Eccentric-hold-down-for-K3-sliding-table-saw

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rich Markiewicz]

Thanks Derek , I'll check it out....

[mark mcfarlane]

...There may be some higher end saws that make recalibration unnecessary.

Just to re-clarify my previous post. My Minimax CU300 does have an adjustment meant to allow removal and replacement of the outrigger and outrigger fence, but there is a tiniest bit of slop in the bearing collar used for registering the fence. Results in about 1mm width difference along an 8' cut depending on how much forward pressure you exert on the fence when you tighten it down.

[Warren Lake]

mark when the fence goes back on this one the fit is very tight. This saw is likely 30 years old and had a ton of use before I got it. There is no play. I wonder if they use the same system still. The slider set up on this one is the most primitive of all their saws. I think I saw it in an episode of the Flintstones. Still it works nicely and is light years past what I used before.

[Jim Becker]

Some sliders come with two crosscut fences. I think that is standard on all Minimax's sold in the USA, just part of the base bundle.

Agree...and it certainly helped with my decision to remain with the brand when I bought the new slider for the new shop. I really "covet" that smaller miter fence as I noted above. It's a very important part of my personal workflow.

[derek labian]

I usually have my slider crosscut fence on the "front", such that when you push the slider forward, the wood is pushed against the fence. This seems safer and more consistent.

487626

However, the outrigger arm runs out of travel and limits the distance between the fence and the blade in this configuration to something quite short (3', maybe?). To use the full slider stroke, the fence needs to be moved to the "rear".

487629

Dumb question, but: is that "normal" and just the nature of the design of the outrigger?

Are my concerns about the wood being pushed against the fence valid? Or is it typical to have the fence in the "rear" position?

As someone else mentioned, I think this is very saw specific. The `front` position on my saw is the only position that works for variable angle cross-cuts (with the compex). The `back` position is for 90 degrees only, so I keep the fence in the `front` position. I find this position convenient if nothing else.

487666