power tool alignment for precision

[Mark Mrsa]

I've created a garage workshop over the past 4 years since retirement. My power tools include: a 10" constractors table saw, a 16x24 Nova lathe, a 6" Jet jointer, Wen belt/disc sander, Shop Fox bench drill press, 13" DeWalt planer, and Mikita compound chop saw.
Over this period of time, I've realized the challenge of shop organization, tool maintenance, machine equipment alignment, and project design.
As I've developed more basic woodworking skill, still considering myself to be a novice, power tool alignment has been a challenge, especially with regard to my table saw, chop saw, jointer, and planer.
I've strived for accurate alignment with all these power tools on the premise that the more accurate the milling and cutting will result in fewer corrections using a plane, hand saw, or sanding.
Is there a general rule of thumb across these power tools, that if I can achieve alignment with an error of 1/64 or less, as an example, that is sufficient to proceed from one step of a project to another?
Of these different power tools, which are considered necessary to achieve accurate, consistent alignment?
As with previous questions I've posted, thanks in advance for reading and responding to this post!!!
Mark Mrsa

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Hi Mark Mrsa, Sounds like you are all set to make your creations!

[Mark Hennebury]

Yes. Develop a process of error checking, understand the relationship of parts. You can check most things for accuracy without any measuring equipment. Check and verify each operation before proceeding to the next. Set each operation to be as accurate as possible... then assume that you have incurred errors, the next operation must assume that you incurred errors and be set to nullify the effect of the potential errors of the prior operation. This way you do not accumulate errors. Each step is checked and verified. Complex operations will fit without any problem. this is paint by numbers. Analyse, develop a process, have the discipline to follow it.

[Bernie Kopfer]

The TS and miter saw can be adjusted via the 4cut method to within less than 1/125 quite readily. It is a good feeling knowing that when you use those two tools they are that close to dead-on! With the planer you can creep up to the same 1/125 level. BUT, when your back is turned the shop gremlins will undo all your hard work. Mark H’s advice is excellent resulting in the outcome that you desire.

[Richard Coers]

As far as I'm concerned, the chop saw is good for building decks and house trim, but useless for making furniture. Well not useless, you can rough cut the stock a couple inches long and then true up the stock.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Enjoyment of time in a woodshop can be derived from building things, or from dialing in precision. Figure out which you like better and go for it. If you want to build, measure the work coming off the tools and if it's not causing problems in your projects, build. If you want to dial in precision, get your Starrets and your pocketbook ready, then chase those thousandths of inches.

Imagine a venn diagram illustrating available workshop time with a circle for precision and one for project production. They overlap a little, and that is the spot most of us try to get to. Nothing wrong with deep diving into the other ends of the range, your time, your choice. Always an interesting debate.

Personally I have to run towards production surpassing precision usually. I get paid per project and there is no bonus for unnecessary precision. Some functions need more precision that others, cope and stick shaper setups need to be perfect. One off trim can have much more variance.

[Jim Becker]

Everyone has their person "precision" requirements when it comes to their tools and work. Some folks worry very little about it and others buy and commission machines to the absolute best tolerances that can be obtained. I'm somewhere in the middle, honestly. Safety factors ALWAYS are a top factor and from there, dialing things in as best as I reasonably can is the end game. I'm not hard on my gear, so things generally stay where they need to be. I do have to remember to actually check them, however.

Given I'll be moving my stuff again within the next few months into a new shop building and they got moved between properties last summer, you can be sure that there will be a bunch of time spent making sure things are setup properly.

[glenn bradley]

Lots of good info here. I enjoy my time in the shop more when my machines are working properly and things go together as expected. As in so many of these discussions the ultimate test is "are things working for you?". I've read too many threads where folks have bought themselves a trip down misery lane by starting to adjust things before they know what the problem is; jointers primarily.

That caution being issued I would proceed like so . . .

Make a simple mitered frame or box. Nothing fancy. It doesn't even have to be complete as long as it has four mitered sides of some reasonable dimension; let's say 1-1/2" x 3/4" x 8" square. Use whatever method you prefer but milling your own stock via the jointer, planer, and tablesaw will give you the most beneficial test. Like some others here I see the compound miter saw as a house building and trim carpenter's tool; not a furniture parts making machine.

Back to the frame you just made. Do all the miters come together nicely without force? Are the front and back surfaces of the multiple parts on an even plane once assembled? If your answers are yes then your machines are fine and you can start having enjoyable, rewarding time in the shop. If your miters have gaps or your parts are inconsistent in dimension I would want to seek out the cause so that I can enjoy my shop time, not fix errors.

Let us know how your 'real world' test goes and we can help guide you through any troubleshooting if required. Don't fix it if it ain't broke :).

[Bill Dufour]

Do not use fractions for adjusting machines. Get a cheap dial indicator from Horrible Fright and use that. There are no good measuring devices in fractions samll enough to be usefull. You really need to look at around 0.001-0.005"

[Cameron Wood]

Using the planer to run stock on edge so the pieces are all the same width, sharp blades and knives, setting up a table saw sled to get clean square cuts, using a knife over a pencil for marking out joinery- it's a process, but not a one-way one.

It's good to be able to do precise work, but it can also be enjoyable to whip something up- just as not all painting is photo-realism.

Actually, I'd say that having an accurate cross cut sled has done the most to get better results with less frustration.

My table saw and jointer are reasonable accurate and sharp, but I hand plane before edge gluing- there's no way to get as good of a glue joint from the power tools.

[Warren Lake]

either your machines are not set up or you need new ones.

using hand tools when machines do the work is a waste of time except for the cases where they make sense over machines.

[Mark Mrsa]

Cameron,
Thanks for your last comment. It's good to know that hand planing is often the next step to obtain precise joinery fits!

[Kevin Jenness]

An edge joint milled with a properly set up jointer with sharp knives should need no further work.

Sometimes hand tools are needed to tune up machined results. I try to minimize handwork by using machines that are dialed in as close as possible. Working to 1/64" tolerances is dependent on context. I typically fit a cabinet door to its opening within that tolerance, but if I made a door with surfaces that were out of plane by 1/64" I would not be at all happy.

Some tools that help me work accurately and efficiently with machines are machinist squares, steel straightedges, feeler gauges, a dial indicator, digital or dial calipers and taper gauges. I am more often measuring in thousandths than 1/64"s.

[Cameron Wood]

either your machines are not set up or you need new ones.

using hand tools when machines do the work is a waste of time except for the cases where they make sense over machines.


If this was responding to my comment about hand planing after using the jointer, it depends on what you want. A machine jointed edge is not smooth, it is scalloped, so makes a thicker glue line. I'm not overly precision oriented in general, and do the bulk of stock prep with machines, but I like tight glue lines, and can get there without too much trouble.
Finally, making furniture is itself a waste of time, and many things could be bought cheaper. :)

[Tom M King]

This shows reflection of light off of a just jointed board on a 6" Woodtek jointer. There are scallops, but they're microscopic. The knives were freshly sharpened, and set with a strip of wood by feel with no measuring, in less than a minute. I was excited that I got a tablesaw set up dead on, but I produce work for a living, so wouldn't have spent hours getting it that close. Some luck was involved.

I've never even put a straight edge on the jointer that ran this board. Light is reflected from a North facing morning window.

[Warren Lake]

Soft maple joined with Helmitin white glue as out of yellow. White glue turns dark but all I had at the time. All joints are sprung.

Thanks for the heads up on furniture, wish you had told me over 40 years ago could have saved a ton on machinery.



487476

[Cameron Wood]

Here's a strip of cherry, off the recently sharpened jointer on the right side, and hand planed on the left. I tried to show the mill marks, which you can just see in the right light. The shine is from the jointer knives burnishing the wood surface. The feel is kind of like the difference between sanded 180, and sanded 320. Second pic some Luan resawn & glued up- glue beads have been scraped but othewise just out of the clamps.



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[Warren Lake]

I just showed you and almost white wood jointed off a jointer. There are no visible glue lines.

On top it was a glue that goes dark unlike helmitins yellow glue. That glues makes a dark glue line but you cant see diddly.

[Mel Fulks]

We used to get some questions on jointing . Haven’t seen may lately. Lot of jointer fences can not be depended on to stay at 90 degrees,
that’s the “ straight-up “ 90 , NOT the Temperature 90 ! When jointing to glue up panels I lay each panel out to match up the way I want ,
then pencil a big V across to mark that. Then joint one board face to fence , next board face OUT. That cancels out any error in fence
accuracy. When I glue them up I get flat panels NOT wooden gutter sections !
I have alway used “sprung “ joints and have never had a joint open up at ends, and many of them were used for exterior . Used to be
a “do it right or get out practice “ , in commercial shops . Now it’s mostly “whatever”.

[Tom M King]

I use both machines and hand tools. Neither is necessarily better for all applications.

[Cameron Wood]

We used to get some questions on jointing . Haven’t seen may lately. Lot of jointer fences can not be depended on to stay at 90 degrees,
that’s the “ straight-up “ 90 , NOT the Temperature 90 ! When jointing to glue up panels I lay each panel out to match up the way I want ,
then pencil a big V across to mark that. Then joint one board face to fence , next board face OUT. That cancels out any error in fence
accuracy. When I glue them up I get flat panels NOT wooden gutter sections !
I have alway used “sprung “ joints and have never had a joint open up at ends, and many of them were used for exterior . Used to be
a “do it right or get out practice “ , in commercial shops . Now it’s mostly “whatever”.


Do you get the sprung joints off the jointer?

[Warren Lake]

Cant speak for Mel, he was a speech writer.

I use a rasp, used to use my jointer for spring joints but it made it too easy.