Woodworker or Content Creator

[Edward Weber]

This subject has come up from time to time, so I thought I would share this.
I watched a video purely based on the description.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhEVEdB7fPA&lc=UgxaBlzFiHI_URO6DHN4AaABAg

"I've never worked with pallet wood before but I figured I'd give it a shot and build a farmhouse style table entirely out of stacks of old pallets. The end grain butcher block top is 3" thick, 3' wide by 6' long and the trestle base is all mortise and tenon joinery. This was quite the project and at the end of the build, I share how long everything took and all the extra costs associated with working with "free" wood. I hope you enjoy, let me know your thoughts in the comments and please get yourself subscribed to the channel. Ryan P.S. At the very end, I say I'm going to show some final pics and then fail to include them in the video. Apologies! :) "

I posted a comment afterwards, and I surprisingly received a response this morning.

(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-JeEHswS9eOeqmNzQ9LXJg) Edward Weber (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-JeEHswS9eOeqmNzQ9LXJg)1 day ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhEVEdB7fPA&lc=UgxaBlzFiHI_URO6DHN4AaABAg)

Not sure what to make of this video, A month of work and $1200 + in costs, and you get a table. While it may be a nice final product, you would have to sell it for at least $10k to make it worthwhile.

Ryan Hawkins (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpfXDSws68HTp4ADn44-iug)6 hours ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhEVEdB7fPA&lc=UgxaBlzFiHI_URO6DHN4AaABAg.9geFppUgLBA9ghuSFTqU TB)

Or get a million views on YouTube


I give him credit for his honesty

[Marc Fenneuff]

It's all about the algorithm and driving traffic to your channel. Stumpy Nubs has a video explaining why you have to follow the trends to get your content to show up. Creating YT content that generates income is hard work but clearly some people can make a living at it. Not something I'd want to do as I can't imagine adding those types of pressures into the happy place that is my garage shop.

I've never had interest in pallet wood projects, mostly because I wouldn't want that grimy wood anywhere near my tools.

[Pat Germain]

I'm all for saving money, but I just don't the get the fascination with pallet wood. It's low grade pine with lots of knots, splinters and splits. Oh, and it's full of metal fasteners to boot. Someone would have to pay me to take it.

The guy on Lincoln Street Woodworks regularly makes fun of the whole pallet wood thing and I think he is spot on.

[Edward Weber]

I think you guys are on the same page as I am.
This all came about when I watched a video a week or two ago. A guy down in Australia makes things from pallets and one of his videos was the true cost and time and mess, and so on. Since then, I've been seeing nothing but pallet videos on my front page, and I (like an idiot) took the bait.

I understand that the more views the better, but a month worth of time and 1.2k is a lot for whatever YT would compensate, isn't it?

He also didn't include overhead in his calculations, I can't imagine a month's worth of rent/mortgage/electric on his shop is free.

[Jeff Roltgen]

It is sad to consider, but the old adage of the cream rising to the top has been inverted, and that which floats to the top is more often brown, a bit disgusting, and stinks.

I love the couple meme's shown recently in the "levity" post in Off-Topics as it pertains to the internet. Pic's not needed, I'll just quote:

"Yay, now that April fools day is over, everything on the internet is true again!"

Even better:

"Do you remember, before the internet, that it was thought that the cause of collective ignorance was the lack of access to information? Well... it wasn't that"

Taking recent developments and putting a few pieces together...
Someone recently asked here about internet service, and how it would be thousands of dollars to hook up to a local high-speed service, so an alternative was in order. A couple weeks later, lo and behold, now only $50. That's because of the latest infrastructure grants to states to help get HS internet service to rural Americans.
Do we really think the intent is to mitigate a certain level of "collective ignorance"?

LOL.

[scott lipscomb]

He's got over 980k and its only been on for less than couple of months!

[Edwin Santos]

This subject has come up from time to time, so I thought I would share this.



I give him credit for his honesty

Interesting response he gave you. We live in a changing world.
This reminds me of the movie about the McDonald's founder, where everyone thought he was in the hamburger business, but in reality he was amassing a fortune in the real estate business.

I didn't read all 1770 comments to his video but from a quick scan yours was about the only one that was even close to critical.

I'm with you, if he's a custom woodworker, projects like this might not be the path to success. But if he's really in the entertainment/influencer business, he seems to be on the right track.
980,000 views, 19, 700 likes? Those are solid numbers.

I would bet the number of viewers that will actually build what he's showcasing is a tiny tiny percentage. But if he's in the entertainment business, all that matters is people enjoy watching him build it.

[Edward Weber]

Interesting response he gave you. We live in a changing world.
This reminds me of the movie about the McDonald's founder, where everyone thought he was in the hamburger business, but in reality he was amassing a fortune in the real estate business.

I didn't read all 1770 comments to his video but from a quick scan yours was about the only one that was even close to critical.

I'm with you, if he's a custom woodworker, projects like this might not be the path to success. But if he's really in the entertainment/influencer business, he seems to be on the right track.
980,000 views, 19, 700 likes? Those are solid numbers.

I would bet the number of viewers that will actually build what he's showcasing is a tiny tiny percentage. But if he's in the entertainment business, all that matters is people enjoy watching him build it.

I was a bit surprised at the response, not one word about the project, but as you alluded to, that's not the point.
As to the woodworking, I don't know about anyone else, but I thought it was quite basic and not worthy of the 1700 fawning comments.
I also didn't think there was any doubt that pallet wood projects were a time-consuming endeavor for a project that will be made of medium quality wood.
I've made a few things from salvaged pallet wood because I'm cheap and don't throw anything away, but I know it's not really a cost-effective thing to do. Free wood costs too much.

[Mel Fulks]

He's got over 980k and its only been on for less than couple of months!

yep, always fun to watch upside down wood work ! But too many times they turn the camera around …. It’s NOT funny anymore.

[Andrew Hughes]

I watched some of the video but mostly fast forward. I thought the table was awful I cannot imagine any setting where it would fit in. But that’s not the point right. Making a video that holds all the NPC wood-dreamers hostage it’s a success.
God help us.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

You guys have probably noticed how easy it apparently is to separate hobbyist woodworkers, fishermen, hunters, car nuts, etc from their $ and time. Entire industustries exist solely for the purpose of doing it. We're sheep. I'm no exception, I just spent far too much time this weekend deep diving in the nuances of various router options for my now tricked out dovetail jig, then bought two. Thank god for that youtube video that pointed out that I really should buy the bosch instead of the milwaukee that I started out after. Whew. He was a good salesman though, I hope his commision check reflects it.

$1000 gone by the time I got done buying a router. All I can say is that I'm gullible, and that the system works! Mr Sawdust, Norm, Marks, etc, it's been going on for quite some time.

[Mark Gibney]

"I'm not a woodworker but I played one on Youtube!"
It'll be interesting to see what changes to the human experience all this social media brings about in years. I'm not optimistic.

[Steve Demuth]

I'm all for saving money, but I just don't the get the fascination with pallet wood. It's low grade pine with lots of knots, splinters and splits. Oh, and it's full of metal fasteners to boot. Someone would have to pay me to take it.

Burns a fine hot fire (as long as it's untreated) in the shop woodstove in the winter months. Other than that, it's useless, and even for that, the time spent breaking pallets up and then removing the metal from the ashes, makes it time consuming enough that I don't look for pallets; I only use the ones that end up here as a result of my spending money on tools and materials).

[andrew whicker]

Here is an earnings breakdown from someone I follow. She is a bike ballerina. She was featured / hired in a Danny macaskill video.

She has way more exposure than most people ever will. Her earnings per video are pretty lame.

Her indirect earnings from exposure.. that's probably the most lucrative.

https://youtu.be/jojMiAhueCk

[Marc Fenneuff]

...the time spent breaking pallets up and then removing the metal from the ashes, makes it time consuming enough that I don't look for pallets; I only use the ones that end up here as a result of my spending money on tools and materials).

I watch Steve Ramsey's Woodworking for Mere Mortals channel occasionally, and surprise if he didn't have a pallet wood project show up in my feed last week. I watched it until he started prying the first of a bajilliion nails out and then I... changed the channel. I just couldn't do it.

[Edward Weber]

Thanks for the link, I found it very informative.

Now, pallet wood in general, what's the allure?
It's just previously used wood. It's usually low quality, it's dirty to work with and time consuming. Not everyone who uses pallet wood is "upcycling" out of the goodness of their hearr, it's mainly because they think they got something for free.

I showed this video to SWMBO and she asked me how much would it cost to make it out of normal lumber, like maple or oak. to which I replied, well not 10k, I think I could come in a little less than that.

[Edwin Santos]

Now, pallet wood in general, what's the allure?


Just my opinion, but short answer - none.

I'm not even sure I understand why pallet wood projects make such effective entertainment, but it seems that they do.

Here in Phoenix, there is a placed called Porter Barn Wood which deals in well, reclaimed barn wood. Now that's a different story. Usually beautiful old growth hardwood. I walked in there one day when they were receiving a truckload of reclaimed gym floor from an old school in the Midwest.
I can understand the allure of the reclaimed wood "look", weathered or distressed. But there are better ways to achieve it than junk dirty pallet wood. For example, I know a craftsman who simulates rough sawn wood by resawing it through his bandsaw with the guides way opened up and a coarse blade.

[Bryan Hall]

Some of the hourly breakdown doesn't sound right to me at all:

25 hours to breakdown the pallets
Jointing: 15 hours
Planing: 18 hours
Table sawing (?) 12 hours
Glueing up panels: 10 hours + 4 hours
Sanding: 16 hours

and on and on...

Even with the amount of pallet wood he broke down I just don't see how you can burn that much time?

[andrew whicker]

I can't believe he's face jointing them! Just run those things thru a planer flip and repeat. crazy.

[andrew whicker]

Haha, contractor saw, cheap oscillating sander... BUT Festool orbital sander. Who is this guy?

lol

Good music though.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Bob Taylor's pallet guitar is an interesting creation.

[Norman Pirollo]

I didn't realize "making furniture from pallet wood" was still a thing. I can imagine dealing with all those nails. A while back another woodworker, obviously to draw attention, did a twist on this. He made a pallet from some old furniture :)

Norman

[Edward Weber]

I went back and read the break-down again, it just doesn't make any sense at all. All of his hours seem like they were pulled out of somewhere.
14 Hours mortising, really, where? 16 hours cutting tenons?
5 gallons of glue, I could make that with less than 1 gallon.
I could go on and on, but it hurts.

This brings me back to the beginning.
This guy, by his own admission, wants to get views. The woodworking (if you can call it that) is secondary at best, and all of that is fine. What really gets to me is the amount of likes and the fawning comments, like:
"So many words to describe your work and the pride you put in it... It's simply amazing!"
"Amazing you are so professional and detailed in every corner"

19k views and 1781 comments, mostly all positive from what I've seen.
This is what people these days think a woodworker is, makes me want to puke.

Thanks for letting me rant

[Warren Lake]

While back Rich Rebuilds put an LS motor in a Tesla.

Now that was cool.

[Bryan Hall]

I agree, it's disappointing. I get that we live in a smash and grab all the money you can kind of world but I struggle with how acceptable it is to be dishonest/misleading.

[John Pariseau]

Now, pallet wood in general, what's the allure?
Pallets are free - who wants to turn down FREE MONEY (slight sarcasm here)?
I'm into rustic-looking stuff, so starting with pre-distressed wood gives the final product a bit more "charm"
You can work pallet wood into something beautiful/clean looking - that transformation from cracked/rusted board to a clean, finished product gives one a sense of accomplishment
Sometimes you get oak, most often "pine", sometimes weird wood that you can't identify - the mystery is what matters

All that being said... it's a lot of work to break down pallets into useable pieces without cracking the boards or leaving bits of metal behind. The tools to pry them apart are heavy, nails snap often preventing their extraction, need I mention slivers? I don't think it's cheaper to break them down, and relying solely on pallets limits what you can do if you want to do anything clean or predictable.

[Chris Parks]

I find a lot of useful stuff on YT both in WW and other hobbies but there is one thing I object to and that is the people who deliberately use their YT audience to convince a company(s) to supply all the tools and there are some very noticeable & prominent examples of this. I first became aware of it when someone tried to convince me it was a good idea to supply him with a dust extractor and I less than politely informed him that it was not going to happen. He was actually genuinely puzzled because in his mind I should be grateful he had asked me for the favour.

Another thing that turns me off instantly is the lazy greeting of Hey YouTubers, what's up? Seriously if they can't find a better opening line they haven't got much future because it just grates and I instantly move on.

[derek labian]

You guys... always the haters, so I'll play the contrarian. This guy is not trying to do "fine woodworking" and he's not trying to sell a product. It looks to me like he did it because he could and because it was entertaining to watch. I thought the video was well produced, and it looked like a lot of work to me, so I would guess his estimates were accurate. It's certainly way more than what I would be willing to do for the result. People like watching others take things to the extreme. Go look at some of the ridiculous things at https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/. They also like it being relatable in such a way that they could see themselves doing it. This guy's project is with pedestrian materials and tools so it has mass appeal. The more niche, the less appeal. See HGTV for further examples.

Just my opinion..

NOTE: I didn't watch the whole video, it's not up my alley, but I got the gist.

[Edwin Santos]

This subject has come up from time to time, so I thought I would share this.



I give him credit for his honesty

He was very honest about the abuse the pallet wood inflicted on his jointer and planer knives, including ruining the planer.
While he didn't say it in so many words, I think his message here is that it's not worth trying to build something out of pallet wood. Or if you're going to do it, be aware of all the cost and time implications.

Early on I was taught that dirty wood is damaging to tool edges. My mentor said dirt is basically tiny abrasive rocks. It was a shop rule to never lay wood directly on the ground, at the very least have it up on stickers or blocks. Plus we always cut off the 1-2 inches at the ends of boards to get away from the dirty ends that were dragged on the ground and whatnot. He would be writhing to see grimy pallet wood being run through tooling.

[Mel Fulks]

Even some expensive wood is going to have some grit in it. Some suppliers are careful about handing wood , avoid the ones who send
stuff with rocks stuck in it. Most material that gets planed will go through machine more than once. Some guys want to run everything
slowly and some truly believe that is good for planer. First pass, at least, should be run full speed . Some will question the validity of fast is
good and have to be fired.

[Edwin Santos]

This guy is not trying to do "fine woodworking" and he's not trying to sell a product. It looks to me like he did it because he could and because it was entertaining to watch.

By my estimate, he probably made between $10,000 and $15,000 for that one video, based on it's length and the number of views. The variance depends on ad views. The winning combination, if you can achieve it, is a long video plus high view count i.e. high ad view count, high ad click count.
So I understand why some of us fine woodworkers might scoff, but if he's making $15K off a video like that, who's the one laughing all the way to the bank?

[andrew whicker]

Meh, I wouldn't say "laughing to the bank"

You can make good money with the amount of effort he put in other ways. At this point, there isn't going to be a 'free $20 on the sidewalk that no one else picked up' in this YouTube / woodworking world. He worked really hard for that $10k to $15k REVENUE. He could have also built two decks in a month and made that kind of money (after materials).

So "laughing to the bank"? Probably not. Earning money for his efforts? Yes. Taking a big risk to get that money? I think so, but this world is his expertise. So maybe to him it wasn't a risk.

[Jim Becker]

I begrudge noone for making a living entertaining folks and, perhaps, stimulating others to actually make things. I'm also all for recycle/upcycle. Yea, some of the stuff is subjectively not anything I'd ever be interested in, but the joy of making things isn't necessarily any different if one is using reclaimed pallet wood or 5000 year old sinker mahogany. (Clearly, there are differences in the end product, of course) Folks really can make a good living being content creators, but there's often a bunch of other marketing and money streams involved for those doing it full time. Patreon, product sales, sponsorships, etc, all play a roll. So these folks are working for a living and that's just fine by me.

Obviously and understandably, I'm not for dishonesty or scamming, of course...

[Pat Germain]

Agree completely. I follow a number of YouTube channels. Over the years, one can determine whether or not the content creators are bringing in significant money.

There's an off-road/overlanding channel I follow called "Trail Recon". When he started out, he would simply make videos on his phone when he went wheeling with his son. The channel became so popular he quit his job and did YouTube full time. Then it got so big his wife quit her job and now participates in the videos. This also helps to bring in more woman viewers which again will help to grow the channel. They were both medical professionals making good salaries in Southern California, so the revenue stream must be pretty significant.

On the other hand, I follow a channel called "Vinyl Rewind" where a guy does videos about vintage vinyl records. After many years of doing that, he recently made a video pleading for support because his typical job went away during COVID and hasn't come back. He made it clear his YouTube channel revenue is inconsistent and currently doesn't bring in enough to make a living.

[Edward Weber]

You guys... always the haters, so I'll play the contrarian. This guy is not trying to do "fine woodworking" and he's not trying to sell a product. It looks to me like he did it because he could and because it was entertaining to watch. I thought the video was well produced, and it looked like a lot of work to me, so I would guess his estimates were accurate. It's certainly way more than what I would be willing to do for the result. People like watching others take things to the extreme. Go look at some of the ridiculous things at https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/. They also like it being relatable in such a way that they could see themselves doing it. This guy's project is with pedestrian materials and tools so it has mass appeal. The more niche, the less appeal. See HGTV for further examples.

Just my opinion..

NOTE: I didn't watch the whole video, it's not up my alley, but I got the gist.


I never commented that he was attempting fine woodworking
The product he is trying to sell is his channel... by woodworking
His video is titled "Pallet Wood Has Never Been Used Like This Before", NOT "A well produced video of me milling lumber"
His estimates do not ring true at all, I have more than enough experience to confidently say that.

So, I guess I'm still a hater?

[Andrew Hughes]

Watching YouTube woodworking videos will rot your woodworking brain.
Dont let your creativity get influenced by woodworking videos and look to the wood for guidance. It’s a trap that will stunt your natural creativity.
Good Luck

[Cameron Wood]

That was a bit painful to watch, particularly all the time spent moving wood around, and when he puts the oil on, which usually brings out the beauty of the wood,
but in this case made it look worse (IMO). Also doing repetitive tasks for too long is dangerous, as well as boring. I would never spend hours straight on a jointer.

One of the curious things about Youtube for me is the uniformly positive comments, no matter how marginal the project or content. Are critical ones removed, is it just the convention?

[Edward Weber]

That was a bit painful to watch

I watched it twice, I'm still sore.
IMO, the only way this project makes any sense to undertake is if you're a YT presenter. Which is why I asked the original question.

It cost too much for what it is. It takes too long for what it is. (even without his suspect numbers)
And I know, YT algorithms are complicated, but I really don't think he is fully compensated for 215 hours of work and 1.2k of materials. I guess maybe I charge more per hour than he does?

I just find the whole thing sad on many levels, and the positive commentors simply don't know any better.

[Pat Germain]

Watching YouTube woodworking videos will rot your woodworking brain.
Dont let your creativity get influenced by woodworking videos and look to the wood for guidance. It’s a trap that will stunt your natural creativity.
Good Luck

I find Marc Spagnuolo's videos inspiring. But yeah, most are just brain dead.

[Edwin Santos]

I find Marc Spagnuolo's videos inspiring. But yeah, most are just brain dead.

There's another very recent thread here on SMC about YouTube recommendations.
Search it out, some of the recommendations are excellent high level makers, inspiring for even the most advanced woodworker.

[William Hodge]

Making money creating a woodworking video is different from creating money through woodworking. The video is meeting an entirely different human need. Entertainment, instruction, inspiration, hate watching, friendship, technical instruction, even building self confidence comes from watchin these videos. People don't get all thatfrom my work. I just build stuff.

Norm Abrams was an early content creator. He inspired people to feel capable, and proud of their work. The Norm Abrams Router Table was great. People spent years building them, looked like fine furniture, and elegant storage. The things never needed famly approval or sales, they stayed in the shop. I wish Norm would build a hyper fancy router table out of pallet wood.

[derek labian]

I never commented that he was attempting fine woodworking
So, I guess I'm still a hater?


I was speaking to some of the other comments regarding the "haters", in that it did look like a lot of work and it does appeal to a lot of people. My larger point is that people do all kinds of nutty things that aren't efficient, just because they want to see if it can be done, and for the attention the ridiculousness brings. For all the people disliking this video, probably most people who read this tread at least watched some of it.. Clickbait works, i mean you 1) clicked on it, 2) watched it, 3) engaged, 4) shared it! It's a home run :D

[Edward Weber]

I was speaking to some of the other comments regarding the "haters", in that it did look like a lot of work and it does appeal to a lot of people. My larger point is that people do all kinds of nutty things that aren't efficient, just because they want to see if it can be done, and for the attention the ridiculousness brings. For all the people disliking this video, probably most people who read this tread at least watched some of it.. Clickbait works, i mean you 1) clicked on it, 2) watched it, 3) engaged, 4) shared it! It's a home run :D

Firstly, it's just low quality wood, I don't care where it comes. The fact that the wood was used previously for pallets is irrelevant. Making a table from wood is a few thousand-year-old concept, so just to see if it could be done, doesn't cut it in my book.

Yes, I clicked on the video to see the numbers he came up with. I think they're all way off, and I posed a simple question to him about his video. I was then surprised with his answer, that in turn prompted this thread. Yes, clickbait works, it's not the issue.

This guy is, by his own admission, out to get clicks, not teach or inspire anyone to work with wood. Which is where this whole thing started. He is primarily a content creator, not a woodworker.

The entire point of my posting this thread was to start the discussion about where is the line between the two groups, or is there one?. Are videos like this helpful or harmful to woodworking, or are they just "entertainment" for the Dunning-Kruger disciples.

I'm a woodworker, watching someone performing the profession/craft that I love in this manner, isn't entertaining, it's offensive. So no, I normally don't watch anything like this.

One side note, if this guys wants to continue to build things (I've looked at some of the videos on his channel) he needs to learn how to mill lumber. It would probably save him some time and money.

[andrew whicker]

He's (and the rest of these people are) just trying to make a living like the rest of us. There's no way you can be super productive with contracted / commissioned work and also shoot & edit these types of videos. So you're focusing on content over productivity (like wood whisperer, etc). I think he chose to make money the hard way.. brute force (in both the literal woodworking aspect and the time it takes to produce relevant content over and over). I really don't think this is a great way to break thru and make money in 2022. Wood Whisperer broke thru at the right time, stuck with it and now can probably coast (ish). But what do I know.

Whatever camp this video falls into, it's someone trying to make a living producing videos. I assume the fail rate is pretty high. As I said before, this guy could have put the same effort into 4 weeks with real jobs and made good money WITH potential referrals. It's the allure of passive income, but YT videos are fleeting without substance or without cultural meaning so it's just another viral video that will go the wasteland server somewhere. He better hope it produces income in the short term because it's probably not going to in the long term.

I think it's entertainment... he's not really teaching anything, just showing how he works. And he's not an expert.