Stair Tread Help

[Chris Livingston]

For a Christmas present to my parents I agreed to build the stairs in their still under construction house. The dilemma I am having is how best to do the following:

The stair treads are of Brazilian Cherry about 5’ long,12” deep by 1” thick. The front edge has a bull nose profile and my dad wants this profile continued around the end sticking out past the wall. To accomplish this there I need to miter the bull nose corner at the front and cut off a 1 ¼” strip off the end while leaving the mitered corner in place and then attach the bull nose trim.(the picture should help if you can see the pencil lines).
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What I was thinking was to stand the piece up bull nose to the bottom and cut the miter with my table saw blade at a 45 degree angle and slide it through on a cut off sled. This will be fun because the wood is very heavy and very long so I’ll probably need to build a custom sled to help support it.
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Then to cut off the 1 ¼” strip I figured I would cut as far as possible with my table saw, again on a sled, and then using a hand saw cut the rest of the way to the miter cut then using biscuits and glue attach the trim.
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Precision is of course very important because every single miter will be visible so is this how you guys would do it or am I missing something simpler?
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Thanks,
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Chris

[Stefan Schoenberger]

Hello Chris

I would saw the mitre cut on the table saw, too.

For the long cut I would try to cut it an 1/16" longer and then trim the rest with an router away. You can use a straight board and a 1/2" pattern bit or 1/2" flush-trim bit. With the 1/2" bit you can come really close to the point of intersection and the rest you should be able to chisel away.

I hope you can understand what I wrote. I didn't found some other words to explain.

Please let me know if you found some other way to do this kind of work

Good luck!

Stefan

[Charlie Mastro]

Am I being too lazy? I would bullnose the return edge with a router bit and sand it. Done...

No miter to open, no glueing end grain to long grain, a definite no, no, it takes no special jig or sled.

Maybe I'm just lazy...:cool:

[Steve Clardy]

Well Chris.
#1, when you continue the bull nosing around the end of tread, you will be dealing with end grain and long grain. The end grain of the treads will be expanding, contracting, so the long grain nosing you want to put on may stay, may come loose.
Normally in step construction, when this is done, the bull nosing, trim, is tongue and grooved.
Groove the tread, tongue the trim.
So. Other than to have some difficult cuts with those long, heavy treads, may I suggest to take the treads and rip off the bull nosing.
Keep track of each piece, so it can be put back on the right tread.
Then, tongue and groove the tread ends and nosing, cutting your 45 on that nosing, install it, then 45 the nosing you ripped off, then attach the nosing back, with glue and clamps.
You will loose a little of the length of the treads doing this. Not much
Steve

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Chris, your plan violates my prime directive, keep it simple. I vote with Charlie on this. Just route the bullnose onthe end and be done with it. It eliminates a lot of complicated joinery which will be a prime spot for failure later (long grain to short grain glue lines).

[Bill Simmeth]

I think we need Richard Wolf in here! My thought is that mitered returns are the way top-notch stair treads are always done. Much nicer than exposed end grain. I think your plan to use the sled on the TS is best. As to end grain on long grain, only glue at the miter and use brads the remainder of the way.

[Richard Wolf]

Please do not take the easy way out and just round over the end grain, it will look like a rookie did the job.
There are two ways to do this;
1) on your table saw or chop saw cut along the 1 1/4 inch line as far as you can without crossing the miter. Finish the cut and the miter with a jig saw, it's easy. Your return piece can be cut on your table saw and miter box. Glue and nail it in place. Some stair builders will go to the next level and biscuit the return on, I seldom do.
2) Some stair builder have changed the look of the return and modified the miter to have a radius instead of a sharp inside corner allowing a template and router bit to remove the return section of the tread. A mating template makes the return to match the cutout tread. This method is called the swoosh, after the Nike swoosh because it has that shape.
Keep in mind that the returned end should also extend past the back of the tread 1 1/4.
Let me see if I can find a picture.
Hope this helps.

Richard

[Chris Livingston]

Thanks Richard. I've always been picky about the way finish details are done and I knew if I just routered the end grain every time I saw those stairs I'd hate myself.

We had planed on extending the return 2" past the end of the tread so it would be 14" long from the side and there would also be another mitered corner on the back edge but that one is easy.

So you would glue and nail the ends on not biscuit them? There are only 10 treads to do and I can build them all in my shop then take them over so the extra time it takes is not an issue for me but if there is a good reason to glue and nail I'm listing to the master.

Last week my dad and I were in Philly for a funeral and took some time to go through Independence hall and several other old building (very cool historically) and we kept looking at stairs and it is amazing what they were able to do back then. Of course the miters have opened up a bit in the last couple centuries and there have been many repairs but it was cool to see that what we were planning was what they did back then.

[Tim Devery]

I have done many stair tread replacements. My vote is use a chop saw to get the 45, then finish off with a jig saw. On the extended side, don't forget to return the end also. You will be glueing on a little 1" piece.
I just glue my sides up.
Trick: Make up a side piece first to use as a master. Then, use this to judge how well your 45 cuts are going.

[tod evans]

chris, the one thing you`re dealing with is crossbanding endgrain richard has told you the correct way to do it but forgot to tell you to only glue the front inch or so of the return. if you glue the length of it it will fail when it moves.. remember wood will move untill it`s dust......02 tod

[Steve Clardy]

Standard and non standard bull nosing trim. Tongue and grooved to stay put. Easy alignment.

[Glenn Clabo]

Steve...
Everytime I see more of your work I'm reminded of the old French guy who took me under his wing when I was very young. He told me that stairmakers are artists. You prove it...

[Steve Clardy]

Steve...
Everytime I see more of your work I'm reminded of the old French guy who took me under his wing when I was very young. He told me that stairmakers are artists. You prove it...

Thanks Glenn.;) I try.:)