Honing Guide Questions

[Greg Parrish]

Just getting back into woodworking and need a way to sharpen a few planes and chisels I have. I've read every thread I could find on the forum and on others and wondered if in 2022 any opinions have changed on these. I'm looking for a basic honing guide to handle plane irons from a variety of planes from different brands/manufacturers including Type 11 Stanley, Veritas, Lie Nielsen, etc. Also looking for it to handle various chisels including Two Cherries bevel edge chisels. Will be using with a set of Shapton Kuromaku Ceramic Whetstones in 1000, 5000 and 8000.Right now I'm trying to decide between these:

Lie Nielsen - I previously had one that never got used as I got out of woodworking before really getting into hand tools. It was machined beautifully. But it looks like this would be nearly $200 to buy the basic honing guide and then the chisel jaws but I'm not sure they will work with the Two Cherries brand chisels based on sporadic comments I've found on web.

Veritas Side Clamping - Looks similar to the Lie Nielsen but without the ability to change jaws. However, it appears to have 3 different mounting jaw profiles on it. anyone used one and how would it compare for the variety of plane blades and chisels I might buy over time? Cheapest option at $46. I'm kind of leaning towards this one for the flexibility but don't know if that's a choice I will regret.

Veritas MK II - Lots of attachments and appears to be the no brainer option until I continued to find comments about skewed edges due to it not holding chisels square. I haven't really pinned down why but it scares me a little regardless. Otherwise appears to be a nice guide with lots of positive feedback. Mid range option at $140 for deluxe set including all jaws.

Any others? Any clear winners as all of the posts I've been finding are from 2020 or way older. Thank you.

[David Bassett]

... Any others? Any clear winners as all of the posts I've been finding are from 2020 or way older. Thank you.

I think you've identified (most of?) the deluxe versions.

If you want to just test the waters, Woodcraft has their WoodRiver side-clamping honing guide on sale this month for $9.49. (See their September sale flyer.) It's their implementation of the classic Eclipse honing guide. It won't be as well made and I don't think is as versatile as the premium versions, but with care it should handle most cases. I expect most chisels and irons with parallel sides to work in any of the side-clamping guides. (With non-parallel sides you would need L-N auxiliary jaws or Veritas top-clamping guide. Some of the Veritas plane irons are the usual suspects for non-parallel sides, but there are probably others.)...

[Tom M King]

I have a couple of the original Eclipses, and a number of others.

I bought this one just to see if there was such a thing as a decent cheap one, and it really is.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BPSRHWP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Patrick Kane]

I had the veritas MKII, and its very nice. You will strip the skin off your finger tips tightening and loosening the knurled brass screws, and i never had a square edge off the jig, but it works.I sold it and the majority of my glass stones for a used tormek. I think with some practice and a little bit of time, you can sharpen most things by hand. Will they be ultra scary sharp? Probably not without years of consistent practice, but I bet you surprise yourself freehand. However, i am very interested in the cheap guides. The MKII was nice, but i also never needed the flexibility of angles the MKII offered. Frankly, i am not that much of a handtool woodworker that i care much. I just want my tools to be between 20-30° with a consistent bevel and a flat back. Tom's recommendation looks like it will serve you well. For $200+ for the above guides/jigs, id rather have a Dia flat or better stones. That is just me. Heck, i think i spent $300 on my used tormek with a bunch of jigs, which is maybe something to consider if the opportunity presents itself locally. I found that Tormek will get you to 7/10 level of sharpness in a minute or less. After i strop, i really dont find a need to reach 10/10 25,000 grit level of sharpness.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks for the feedback. Pretty much along the various reviews and threads/posts I've been reading.

As much as I'd like to have the Lie Nielson just because I love their tools, for the money saved I decided to give the Veritas Side-Clamping version a try. It was only $10 difference from the one Tom linked at Amazon. Heck, for the cost of the LN version, I was pretty much able to get the one from Veritas guides and a Veritas low angle block plane with PM-V11 iron. I'll give the Veritas guide a whirl and if it doesn't live up to its name, I can always get a LN one later if needed. https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/guides/111759-veritas-side-clamping-honing-guide?item=05M0940

Besides, I needed a block plane and have always been interested in the Veritas planes and PM-V11 irons. My prior planes before selling my prior shop were all LN, but this go round I've got two James Spangler special Stanley Type 11 planes and now a Veritas block plane on order. Whoop!

Thanks again for the feedback/comments.

[Tom M King]

I have that Veritas side clamping jig too, and it works fine. I think that one from Amazon was cheaper than 40 bucks when I bought it, but I don't remember.

[Tony Wilkins]

I have (in order of procurement) an eclipse copy, the LV Mk ii, and the LN. Not sure if I’d go the LN route without a lot of LN tools to use in it as others are guaranteed to work and it is a pricey tool. I am not a fan of the Mk ii as it takes time and patience to get the edge straight and there’s still a chance it wind be. I keep it for angles now mostly. The narrow blade add on makes it work a lot better but it won’t handle plane blades. There really wasn’t anything wrong with my eclipse copy and I could still be using it if not for wanderlust. The big problem I’ve heard with eclipse clones is that sometimes they require a lot of work to get straight and ready - I got lucky I guess. I don’t have experience with the LV side clamp but if I was starting now I’d take a long look at it.

[lowell holmes]

Why don't you make one out a piece of oak or other hard wood.

A simple triangular block can do it, oak or other hard wood.

[Edward Weber]

Veritas MK II
If you don't tighten the thumb screws evenly, the tool can move or pivot. In my experience, if you pay attention to what you're doing, this is a rare occurrence. I've been using one for close to 20 years and for me, it's the only one.
I prefer that it references off the back of the tool, so I can rely on the angle being correct and repeatable.
JMO

[Greg Parrish]

Looks like Blue Spruce offers one also. Anyone ever tried theirs? https://bluesprucetoolworks.com/products/blue-spruce-honing-guide

[Mike Brady]

The Lie-Nielsen honing guide is fantastic....for Lie Nielsen tools. It works well on other brands of plane blades, but non-L-N chisels may not be secure enough in the LN guide. You can file a knock-off Eclipse guide to hold the chisels that don't fit into the L-N guide. This combination of guides has met my needs for a long time.

[Reed Gray]

I have the Veritas one, and it is okay. The drawback is that for plane blades, you need to be able to put a very slight arc in the blade so there are no 'corner' marks. The LIe Neilson one provides this. Veritas does have a 2 piece set up where one has a brass roller that is tapered, and I have one on order. Apparently if you want just the tapered roller it is an 'upgrade' and not available as a separate unit. Depending on how many planes you have, you may need the angled blades. Not sure if one is made for the Japanese style marking knives.

For sharpening stones, I opted for the DMT lapping plates. They have 1200, 4000, and 8000 grit now. You will never have to soak them, or level them. I also went with the DMT diamond honing/stropping pastes. Trying to figure out if I want leather or just on some wood or MDF.

robo hippy

[Monte Milanuk]

I've got a few... the older Veritas one (MkI ?), an Eclipse clone from the hardware store, and the Veritas Mk II.

I need to make a protrusion guide for the Eclipse, and go through it and tune it up some as shown online. Might be more useful then.

The Mk II... man, I must have gotten lucky on mine. Never had an issue with skewed edges. The Veritas jig/rest for my bench grinder, yes. Better off free-handing than what that jig gives me. But the MkII... never had an issue with skew, as long as I tighten down the bar evenly, and never had to go more than finger tight either. It is kind of a pain going between thicker irons and thinner, but that's about it.

Regarding the cambered roller... in my experience, it doesn't give as much of a smooth even radius along the edge of the blade, as dub the corners. The end result is that it reduces plane tracks, which is why I got it, but the way it ends up isn't quite what I was expecting. Which is the main reason I'm still tinkering with the Eclipse style guide. Part of me lusts after the LN guide, rather than have to tinker and fuss with modifying the Eclipse - I much prefer to *use*

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I bought the MkII before the LN guide was released. Since most of my planes and some of my spokeshaves and chisels are LN, I probably would have purchased it despite the huge difference in price. While the MkII has a few annoying issues, I’ve learned to live with and work around them because of its versatility and price. The LN guide with all the attachments I would need would cost me $400 ($300 back then). As my waterstones have worn down I’ve been replacing them with DMT Diasharp stones. With a honing on a leather strop, they get my blades very sharp. But I’m not anal to the point of examining the scratch patterns under a microscope. 😉

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks for the continued feedback everyone.

In lieu of starting a new thread, since it's a related topic and I'm sure you all have similar feedback, what lapping plate does everyone prefer for their waterstones? I was thinking about the DMT one from Lie Nielsen but didn't know if there were other options. Like everything I research, the reviews are all over the place, especially on Amazon.

[Tony Wilkins]

Thanks for the continued feedback everyone.

In lieu of starting a new thread, since it's a related topic and I'm sure you all have similar feedback, what lapping plate does everyone prefer for their waterstones? I was thinking about the DMT one from Lie Nielsen but didn't know if there were other options. Like everything I research, the reviews are all over the place, especially on Amazon.

I just use an Atima 400 grit diamon stone.

[David Bassett]

Thanks for the continued feedback everyone.

In lieu of starting a new thread, since it's a related topic and I'm sure you all have similar feedback, what lapping plate does everyone prefer for their waterstones? I was thinking about the DMT one from Lie Nielsen but didn't know if there were other options. Like everything I research, the reviews are all over the place, especially on Amazon.

It really seems flat is the only absolute requirement. Seems like the majority of the sharpeners prefer the Atoma plates. You can spend more, e.g. the only complaint I heard about the DMT Dia-Flat is price and the Nano-Hone stuff, while well reviewed, makes it look inexpensive. Many people get by with generic diamond plates from China. My preference is the:

Diamond Flattening Plate (https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/sharpening-accessories/products/diamond-flattening-plate)

from JKI. It's cheaper, works well, and I completely trust Jon, the owner, to make sure it is of adequate quality to do the job well.

[Rob Luter]

Late to the party but compelled to comment :D

Regarding Honing Guides

I had a cheap Eclipse copy (Shop Fox I think) and threw it away.

I had the full kit from Veritas. The MKII with both sets of jaws (top and side clamp) plus both rollers. It's really nice. That said, it's pretty fussy and more complicated than it needs to be. I glued a thin leather pad to the top clamp jaws so it would hold the workpiece more securely. I wound up selling the whole setup.

I bit the bullet and got a LN Guide. Kind of spendy but it just flat works. It was about the same as I had spent on all the Veritas MKII stuff. I got an extra set of jaws for spokeshave cutters. I made a little spacer board to establish cutting angles. The whole kit is super simple and works great.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47094548614_0f1304d41a_b.jpg

Regarding Stone Flatteners

I was a long time "Scary Sharp" guy, using five grades of 3M abrasive film on glass. A while back I changed to a modified "Cosman Method" using a 300/1000 Trend Diamond Plate plus two Shaptons , a 6,000 and a 16,000. The Trend is on the left below. The 300 Side of the Trend plate is used to flatten the Shaptons occasionally and the 1000 side works great for establishing (or repairing) a primary edge. Again, it's a pretty simple setup but it's fast and works great.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50988878701_f02602a1bb_b.jpg

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks. I decided to give the Atoma 400 plate a try since Lee Valley had them for sale. 1/2 the price of the DMT at LN so I like that part. I’m sure any of them would be fine no more than I’ll actually be using it over the years in my hobby usage. Thanks again for all the feedback.

Now on to picking a few bench chisels. Only kept a single Two Cherries chisel when I sold the shop so I’m starting from scratch here too. Just like the above, I’ll be looking at options rather than just running straight to LN to order. So far considering LN, Veritas, Pfiel, Two Cherries, Stanley Sweetheart 750 and Narex Richter. I liked the feel of the LN just fine but haven’t had a chance to checkout the others (other than the two cherries, but they are completely different feeling).

[David Bassett]

... Now on to picking a few bench chisels. ...

Plenty of opinions on this! :) (In fact, it's mostly personal preference I think.)

One recent thread where most options are mentioned is:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?299583-Best-Set-of-User-Chisels

Have fun!

[Warren Mickley]

It really seems flat is the only absolute requirement. Seems like the majority of the sharpeners prefer the Atoma plates. You can spend more, e.g. the only complaint I heard about the DMT Dia-Flat is price and the Nano-Hone stuff, while well reviewed, makes it look inexpensive. Many people get by with generic diamond plates from China. My preference is the:

Diamond Flattening Plate (https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/sharpening-accessories/products/diamond-flattening-plate)

from JKI. It's cheaper, works well, and I completely trust Jon, the owner, to make sure it is of adequate quality to do the job well.

I have used the same jig since 1962. I agree with Frank Klausz "your hands is the best jig" ( da bess chick). I have worn out a number of stones, but never used a flattening plate.

[Charles Guest]

Nobody could ever tell how you hone your tools by looking at a finished product. Nobody really cares, either.

When choosing your media, consider the need to be able to hone things other than plane irons and chisels. I've yet to see or hear of somebody going to town on an inshave with a $400 honing stone that gouges easily. But whatever. You can own two or three systems :rolleyes: but that just really seems like a waste and not the way of the craftsman.

"Sharp" is the deepest rabbit hole you'll ever run across in woodworking. Sharp's first cousin in tool steel -- 2nd worst rabbit hole. If you've come to the craft evenly mildly OCD, get out while you still can.

[Chuck Hill]

I had DMT plates and then tied an Atoma. I quickly got rid of the DMT ones and replaced them with Atoma. They just cut better.

[Keegan Shields]

haha I'm certain that my chisels with a single perfect mirror bevel work much better than the ones with several, slightly different bevels....

[Tom M King]

Mine work good enough for me like that anyway.

I started with guides, and went back to them so my helpers could sharpen things. They were hopeless by hand, but can sharpen anything almost as good as I can with a guide. I hire people that no one else would hire, so they are not the best at a lot of things, but can sharpen a chisel with a guide.

I only used the original Eclipse for a long time after I bought it new, and it still gets used more than any of the others.

To answer the flattening question, I use the replacement Atoma sheets, 4x8" in 400 and 140 grit on a granite surface plate that sits on our sharpening sink counter.

[Greg Parrish]

Now on to picking a few bench chisels. Only kept a single Two Cherries chisel when I sold the shop so I’m starting from scratch here too. Just like the above, I’ll be looking at options rather than just running straight to LN to order. So far considering LN, Veritas, Pfiel, Two Cherries, Stanley Sweetheart 750 and Narex Richter. I liked the feel of the LN just fine but haven’t had a chance to checkout the others (other than the two cherries, but they are completely different feeling).


Plenty of opinions on this! :) (In fact, it's mostly personal preference I think.)

One recent thread where most options are mentioned is:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?299583-Best-Set-of-User-Chisels

Have fun!


Narrowed my bench chisel choices down to the following list:

Stanley Sweetheart 750 - around $25 each if you buy the 8 piece set
Ashley Iles MK2 - around $36 each if you buy the 6 piece set
Narex Richter Cryo - around $35 to $50 each as a set
Lee Valley PM-V11 - $70 to $88 each individually
Lee Nielsen - $95 each


And, after reading a lot of reviews, watching tons of videos and exploring best pricing available on each option, the below was my thought process on eliminating choices and making a selection:

Stanley Sweetheart 750 - Made in England. Unknown tool steel composition. Hornbeam handle. Excellent price point. Honestly, I eliminated it from my list due to the thickness of the edge/lands.
Lie Nielson - Made in USA. A2 steel. Cryo-treated. Hornbeam handle. Eliminated them purely on cost. Previously owned a set and they were very nice. However, the cost per chisel has doubled in the past few years prompting me to try something else.
Lee Valley PM-V11 - Made in Canada. PM-V11 steel. Torrefied maple handle. Eliminated again purely on cost. They look lovely, but are in the same ballpark cost wise as the LN chisels. May one day order one to compare but for now decided to pass.
Narex Richter Cryo - Made in Czech Republic. Chrome Manganese steel. Cryo-treated. Ash handle. Not sure how Cr-Mn steel compares to A2/O1 but it appears to be well regarded. Based on my desire to find something cheaper than the LN/LV options that was still high quality, these made it to my final decision/elimination round.
Ashley Iles MK2 - Made in Sheffield England. O1 steel. Bubinga handles. The reviews I read and the look of this chisel just captured my eye. It appears they corrected most of the items people didn't like in the earlier version. The 01 tool steel seems to have good feedback on it's ability to sharpen and hold an edge. The handles seem to be dense enough to handle some usage. And the price came in right at the sweet spot. Much lower than the LN/LV options and around the same price as the best pricing I could find on the Narex option.

Without having them all in my hands to play with, this was a very tough decision process. I used other peoples experiences and reviews to guide me. I'm sure any choice amongst these 5 would have been an awesome decision but I'm going to be giving the Ashley Iles MK2 chisels a try. Ordered the 6 piece set from TFWW. I liked the fact that they have a 6-month return policy which should be plenty of time to spot any issues.

In the long run, I'm sure these are going to be great chisels that will keep me from looking across the fence into the LN/LV pastures. But, as I expand my chisel collection again and look for the more specialty items, I'll be re-visiting each of these brands to see how their more specialized chisels compare. Thanks Sawmill Creek for the continued guidance and help.

(These are my own opinions and YMMV)

[Edward Weber]

Nobody could ever tell how you hone your tools by looking at a finished product. Nobody really cares, either.

"Sharp" is the deepest rabbit hole you'll ever run across in woodworking. Sharp's first cousin in tool steel -- 2nd worst rabbit hole. If you've come to the craft evenly mildly OCD, get out while you still can.

I couldn't agree more

[Derek Cohen]

Narrowed my bench chisel choices down to the following list:

Stanley Sweetheart 750 - around $25 each if you buy the 8 piece set
Ashley Iles MK2 - around $36 each if you buy the 6 piece set
Narex Richter Cryo - around $35 to $50 each as a set
Lee Valley PM-V11 - $70 to $88 each individually
Lee Nielsen - $95 each


And, after reading a lot of reviews, watching tons of videos and exploring best pricing available on each option, the below was my thought process on eliminating choices and making a selection:

Stanley Sweetheart 750 - Made in England. Unknown tool steel composition. Hornbeam handle. Excellent price point. Honestly, I eliminated it from my list due to the thickness of the edge/lands.
Lie Nielson - Made in USA. A2 steel. Cryo-treated. Hornbeam handle. Eliminated them purely on cost. Previously owned a set and they were very nice. However, the cost per chisel has doubled in the past few years prompting me to try something else.
Lee Valley PM-V11 - Made in Canada. PM-V11 steel. Torrefied maple handle. Eliminated again purely on cost. They look lovely, but are in the same ballpark cost wise as the LN chisels. May one day order one to compare but for now decided to pass.
Narex Richter Cryo - Made in Czech Republic. Chrome Manganese steel. Cryo-treated. Ash handle. Not sure how Cr-Mn steel compares to A2/O1 but it appears to be well regarded. Based on my desire to find something cheaper than the LN/LV options that was still high quality, these made it to my final decision/elimination round.
Ashley Iles MK2 - Made in Sheffield England. O1 steel. Bubinga handles. The reviews I read and the look of this chisel just captured my eye. It appears they corrected most of the items people didn't like in the earlier version. The 01 tool steel seems to have good feedback on it's ability to sharpen and hold an edge. The handles seem to be dense enough to handle some usage. And the price came in right at the sweet spot. Much lower than the LN/LV options and around the same price as the best pricing I could find on the Narex option.

Without having them all in my hands to play with, this was a very tough decision process. I used other peoples experiences and reviews to guide me. I'm sure any choice amongst these 5 would have been an awesome decision but I'm going to be giving the Ashley Iles MK2 chisels a try. Ordered the 6 piece set from TFWW. I liked the fact that they have a 6-month return policy which should be plenty of time to spot any issues.

In the long run, I'm sure these are going to be great chisels that will keep me from looking across the fence into the LN/LV pastures. But, as I expand my chisel collection again and look for the more specialty items, I'll be re-visiting each of these brands to see how their more specialized chisels compare. Thanks Sawmill Creek for the continued guidance and help.

(These are my own opinions and YMMV)

Greg, I have no doubt that you will enjoy the AI chisels. My reply is that you excluded one set of chisels owing to their high lands. I have a simple fix for that, and FWW magazine will be publishing it in their next edition as a Shop Tip. This is my original article, which they are not using: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BenchChiselsintoDovetailChisels.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Parrish]

Greg, I have no doubt that you will enjoy the AI chisels. My reply is that you excluded one set of chisels owing to their high lands. I have a simple fix for that, and FWW magazine will be publishing it in their next edition as a Shop Tip. This is my original article, which they are not using: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BenchChiselsintoDovetailChisels.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek. Excellent article. I always place high value on your comments, input and opinions. In this case, I did for a brief moment think about the Stanley’s and then modifying them along the lines of your approach, but I do not have a good option for the required grinding and quite frankly I was afraid of messing them up. Your article certainly makes me feel empowered to go try it, but I don’t have a belt grinder at this time so I’m probably still better off sticking with a chisel that has a thinner land from the start.

One thing I will say though, my prior LN chisels had such thin lands that they were sharp enough to slice your hands during use. The edge on them had to be knocked down a bit for me to safely use them. LOL


Next up on my list is to figure out how to get a proper wood vise in my space without building a whole bench. What I’m thinking right now is to remove the metal cross brace on the front of my Armor bench and replace with a wood apron. Then install something like a Veritas face vice. This bench is serving as my sanding station, but given the pre-drilled dog holes, it can easily work double duty for other uses. There are a number of options to secure wood on the top for plane use, but the vise would let me clamp wood for edge work. I’m wondering if the Veritas twin screw design would work as a face vise as then it could also hold wood for dovetails too. As my space develops, I may be able to work out floor space to build a free standing bench down the road, but this would get me something to use now. Anyway, still thinking this through.

486549

486550

[Derek Cohen]

I’m wondering if the Veritas twin screw design would work as a face vise as then it could also hold wood for dovetails too.

Greg, the twin screw will work as you ask, however the value of a dedicated dovetailing vise (e.g. Moxon-style) lies with it raising the work piece to a comfortable height for sawing (unless you plan to sit and saw).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Parrish]

Greg, the twin screw will work as you ask, however the value of a dedicated dovetailing vise (e.g. Moxon-style) lies with it raising the work piece to a comfortable height for sawing (unless you plan to sit and saw).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Good point. Might as well stick with a normal face vise for the front and then build/buy a Moxon vise for the bench top when needed. Thanks for that just before bedtime post. I'm just getting my morning going over here in Florida. LOL

[Greg Parrish]

Got the Ashley Iles MK2 chisels today and gotta say, I don’t love them. I didn’t remove the shipping tip protection wax stuff, but the blades look to be well made and the handles look really nice. Don’t really like the ferrules as the brass bells out at the blade end and rubs on my hand and they just don’t feel well balanced in my hand. As much as it kills me, I’m thinking of returning them before use so that they don’t incur any damage. I don’t know how to explain the odd feel to the balance other than the 2 cherries chisel I still have and the LN chisels I had before felt better balanced in hand and in use.

I do think these would be okay for just chopping, but the balance feel comes more into play with paring and other more finesse uses. Don’t know what to do but again if they don’t feel right in my hand, they don’t feel right. Ugh.

EDIT: Took some time since posting this earlier to play with them along side my 2 cherries chisel. I think what I’m feeling is a very handle heavy balance on the AI chisels. Makes them feel fine for holding upright to hammer and chop, but when you grab the blade end to do something more intricate, the handle weight makes them feel odd to me. The 2 cherries handle is much lighter feeling. The other piece is the handle shape I think. The AI handle bulges out and is a thicker handle and I guess my preference is towards the thinner handles or ones that have a different shape. The ferrule on the 2 cherries is much more slim and fitted as well. However, I don’t really like the 2 cherries full polish and the thicker lands. The AI had an advantage here. Not sure what I’m going to do still as I’m debating if I just try to live with them, or if I’m better off returning them and getting something I know will more more comfortable in use. I feel like the better ergonomics, balance and comfortable fit is important though. Maybe I’m crazy. Do you get used to different chisel styles? Or does a better fitting, more comfortable in use chisel help produce better results? Or am I over thinking this. LOL. Thanks.





Narrowed my bench chisel choices down to the following list:

Stanley Sweetheart 750 - around $25 each if you buy the 8 piece set
Ashley Iles MK2 - around $36 each if you buy the 6 piece set
Narex Richter Cryo - around $35 to $50 each as a set
Lee Valley PM-V11 - $70 to $88 each individually
Lee Nielsen - $95 each


And, after reading a lot of reviews, watching tons of videos and exploring best pricing available on each option, the below was my thought process on eliminating choices and making a selection:

Stanley Sweetheart 750 - Made in England. Unknown tool steel composition. Hornbeam handle. Excellent price point. Honestly, I eliminated it from my list due to the thickness of the edge/lands.
Lie Nielson - Made in USA. A2 steel. Cryo-treated. Hornbeam handle. Eliminated them purely on cost. Previously owned a set and they were very nice. However, the cost per chisel has doubled in the past few years prompting me to try something else.
Lee Valley PM-V11 - Made in Canada. PM-V11 steel. Torrefied maple handle. Eliminated again purely on cost. They look lovely, but are in the same ballpark cost wise as the LN chisels. May one day order one to compare but for now decided to pass.
Narex Richter Cryo - Made in Czech Republic. Chrome Manganese steel. Cryo-treated. Ash handle. Not sure how Cr-Mn steel compares to A2/O1 but it appears to be well regarded. Based on my desire to find something cheaper than the LN/LV options that was still high quality, these made it to my final decision/elimination round.
Ashley Iles MK2 - Made in Sheffield England. O1 steel. Bubinga handles. The reviews I read and the look of this chisel just captured my eye. It appears they corrected most of the items people didn't like in the earlier version. The 01 tool steel seems to have good feedback on it's ability to sharpen and hold an edge. The handles seem to be dense enough to handle some usage. And the price came in right at the sweet spot. Much lower than the LN/LV options and around the same price as the best pricing I could find on the Narex option.

Without having them all in my hands to play with, this was a very tough decision process. I used other peoples experiences and reviews to guide me. I'm sure any choice amongst these 5 would have been an awesome decision but I'm going to be giving the Ashley Iles MK2 chisels a try. Ordered the 6 piece set from TFWW. I liked the fact that they have a 6-month return policy which should be plenty of time to spot any issues.

In the long run, I'm sure these are going to be great chisels that will keep me from looking across the fence into the LN/LV pastures. But, as I expand my chisel collection again and look for the more specialty items, I'll be re-visiting each of these brands to see how their more specialized chisels compare. Thanks Sawmill Creek for the continued guidance and help.

(These are my own opinions and YMMV)

[Tony Wilkins]

Chisels are a very personal thing. That’s why I always recommend trying just one of a new chisel and trying multiple brands/styles to see what you like. You can usually sell them for as much or almost as much as you bought them for.

[Jim Koepke]

Chisels are a very personal thing. That’s why I always recommend trying just one of a new chisel and trying multiple brands/styles to see what you like. You can usually sell them for as much or almost as much as you bought them for.

This was my reasoning of mostly buying only socket chisels. It was fairly easy to make my own handles to my liking. There are many makers represented in my chisels. Only a couple of brands (Buck Bros & Witherby) were easily obtainable to be eventually acquired in multiple sizes to make a set. There are a many makers like Greenlee & Union Hardware that produced very nice tools.

jtk

[Greg Parrish]

There website says free returns for 6 months so I’m going to give them a little more time and see if my opinion changes. They are really nice looking chisels and I’m wondering if it makes more sense to keep this set as a general purpose set and add one or two of other flavors for specific tasks as the need arises.

[Greg Parrish]

There website says free returns for 6 months so I’m going to give them a little more time and see if my opinion changes. They are really nice looking chisels and I’m wondering if it makes more sense to keep this set as a general purpose set and add one or two of other flavors for specific tasks as the need arises.

Well, I fondled them all weekend and my opinion didn't change. Just do not like the feel and can't decide if its the balance or the handle or what. Also, the ferules were very irregular and flared out towards the blade and many of the chisels were offset and not centered in the handle. Regardless, they were unused and still had their protective tip coating. TFWW happily took them back and they went out via fedex this afternoon.

I've read the metal comparison and chisel articles on Derek Cohen (https://sawmillcreek.org/member.php?2150-Derek-Cohen) website and the PM-V11 metal appears to be far superior to the A2 and O1 offerings, but I think I'm going with the LN based on my prior usage. Since they are much pricier, I'll only buy a few initially instead of the 7 Ashley Iles just returned. Will start with a 1/4, 3/8, 5/8 and 3/4 set as I already have the 1/2 in 2 cherries. I know I’ll need other sizes and types along the way but this will get me a basic 5 chisel setup to get started.

[Jim Koepke]

My experience with A2 is it is more difficult to sharpen and if you like a low angle it is more prone to chipping.

PM-v11 is a bit more difficult to sharpen but my oilstones will work on it. A2 needs water stones or diamond stones.

O1 works well for me though there is a lot of variation from the differences in various formulations. I like my Hock O1 blades until it is time to sharpen them. Their formulation seems to give them a smoother wear profile than older O1 blades. Before the shavings start getting funky the blade has usually worn to the point of needing to be ground a bit. My older O1 blades would usually chip to give a warning it was time to hone.

This just goes to show, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

jtk

[Greg Parrish]

I agree, very tough to wade through this stuff. Tougher behind the keyboard than in use. LN used to offer their chisel in O1 as did LV. Wonder why they both stopped? And LN isn’t offering anything smaller than 1/4” right now either so if I want something that small I’ll have to look at the LV anyway.

Shame the LN isn’t available with PM-V11. That might just be the best of all worlds (to me anyway). LOL


My experience with A2 is it is more difficult to sharpen and if you like a low angle it is more prone to chipping.

PM-v11 is a bit more difficult to sharpen but my oilstones will work on it. A2 needs water stones or diamond stones.

O1 works well for me though there is a lot of variation from the differences in various formulations. I like my Hock O1 blades until it is time to sharpen them. Their formulation seems to give them a smoother wear profile than older O1 blades. Before the shavings start getting funky the blade has usually worn to the point of needing to be ground a bit. My older O1 blades would usually chip to give a warning it was time to hone.

This just goes to show, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

jtk

[Patrick Kane]

Personally, I wouldn’t get too hung up on the steel types. I’m not a metallurgist, but between my 40 chisels of vintage American smiths, Japanese smiths, pmv11, marples, and Dewalt there’s not much difference that 45 seconds of sharpening won’t rectify. The pmv11 and Japanese chisels are definitely harder and last a bit longer, but it’s not like you sharpen them once a year and the others every weekend. The marples and Dewalt chisels blunt the quickest of the lot, and it is noticeable. The rest have less noticeable difference between. If you really want a performance difference, I’d focus more on style. A mortise chisel, paring chisel, dovetail etc. I would go with what looks good to you and feels good. I dont think you will observe much practical difference in the usability between the different steels.

[Jim Koepke]

Patrick makes an important point:


it’s not like you sharpen them once a year and the others every weekend.
and

If you really want a performance difference, I’d focus more on style. A mortise chisel, paring chisel, dovetail etc. I would go with what looks good to you and feels good.

Using a proper chisel for the job at hand is important in my world. A mortise chisel is going to be a pain at paring dovetails, just like a light paring chisel isn't the best choice for banging out a few dozen mortises.

Looks can be important, to me the feel is more important. I do not like using tools that are uncomfortable in my hands. Some of my tools are on the ugly side and that doesn't bother me.

jtk

[Edward Weber]

Using a proper chisel for the job at hand is important in my world. A mortise chisel is going to be a pain at paring dovetails, just like a light paring chisel isn't the best choice for banging out a few dozen mortises.

Looks can be important, to me the feel is more important. I do not like using tools that are uncomfortable in my hands. Some of my tools are on the ugly side and that doesn't bother me.

jtk

Once again, I find myself agreeing with Jim

I also prefer socket chisels and semi-collect a couple select older manufacturers.
I usually clean up the often mushroomed socket, just until it can hold a handle securely. I turn handles with little frills that fit my hand.
Handles that are tool small in diameter and/or length can cause cramping and hand fatigue.
I find that it's more important to use a comfortable tool fit for the job. rather than simply a name brand or high-priced model alone. IMO, it can improve your skill more quickly if your tool is comfortable to use.
JMHO

[Jim Koepke]

…
I find that it's more important to use a comfortable tool fit for the job. rather than simply a name brand or high-priced model alone. IMO, it can improve your skill more quickly if your tool is comfortable to use.
JMHO

An uncomfortable or awkward tool tends to end up not being used.

A tool that feels good in the hand will have its owner seeking tasks for it to do.

jtk

[Edward Weber]

A tool that feels good in the hand will have its owner seeking tasks for it to do.

jtk

That's a good quote :)

[Dan Gaylin]

I got great advice from people in this forum to try hand sharpening my plane blades after having a very frustrating experience trying to use a honing guide. I found that hand sharpening is quicker and produces better results. The thread was titled “sharpening: what am I doing wrong”. YMMV.