Stewmac Ultimate Scraper?

[Frederick Skelly]

I was reading the other scraper thread (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?299646-Another-useful-tip-from-Lou-Sauzedde-Scraper) and it reminded me of the Stewmac Ultimate Scraper (https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/scrapers/stewmac-ultimate-scraper/)that I've been hearing about for quite some time. At $54, they are fairly pricey but they have free shipping through tomorrow and that kicked me over the edge. :) It should arrive in about a week.

Anyone here use one of these? What's your experience with them? Do you find them as easy to sharpen as Stewmac's video makes them sound?

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Those are neat (and pricey) I have made similar scrapers from old planer blades. They do not have the concave center (yet) and the hole is burned through with a torch or stick. We always joke about StewMac's "send in your shop tips" dialogue. A neat shop tip will show up and within a few months StewMac will have a patented expensive tool for sale.

[Edward Weber]

They are good but as I'm sure you know, they are not like normal card scrapers that you burnish an edge on. These are much thicker and are used straight from the grinder. I find them easy to sharpen on a CBN wheel, I have not tried it on a friable wheel.
The video shoes what looks to be a 6" grinder, this will have a deeper hollow grind than an 8", although I use an 8" wheel with good results. YMMV

[Maurice Mcmurry]

They work OK ground square. As Edward states, hollow ground is better. My small Grizzly Tormek copy works well. I want to try an ice-skate grind but have not found the right stone yet.

[Jim Koepke]

That looks interesting Frederick. Being a cheapskate my tendency will be to make my own.

Another idea you might try is a 90º bevel on a chisel.

This was my post on that > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?289820

Since then, it proved itself so useful 1/8" & 1/4" chisels were purchased and ground to have 90º bevels. They are very useful for use in tight places and many other things.

If using a standard bench grinder, grind the chisel with the back side facing up.

Here are a couple of uses:

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This was one of the 1/2" chisels first uses, cleaning up saw marks where no other tool could reach. Notice there is still some of the original bevel left.

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It also removed rust from the side of a block plane without leaving scratches, keep the chisel flat on the work for this.

So my guess from using what is essentially a specialized scraper, once you get the hang of those thick scrapers, you will enjoy them.

Be sure to post your results.

jtk

[David Bassett]

I was reading the other scraper thread (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?299646-Another-useful-tip-from-Lou-Sauzedde-Scraper) and it reminded me of the Stumac Ultimate Scraper (https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/scrapers/stewmac-ultimate-scraper/)that I've been hearing about for quite some time. At $54, they are fairly pricey but they have free shipping through tomorrow and that kicked me over the edge. :) It should arrive in about a week.

Anyone here use one of these? What's your experience with them? Do you find them as easy to sharpen as Stumac's video makes them sound?

Uh, for anyone unfamiliar, that should be spelled: StewMac, as in Stewart-MacDonald, a Luthier's supply. (Tools, parts, wood, finish, and guitar & mandolin kits.)

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I became aware of StewMac scrapers on the Ken Parker Archtoppery YouTube channel. He uses them on his guitars and has a few videos on sharpening them. It’s an interesting tool, but as others have noted, pricey. But with free shipping it’s worth considering. However, Blue Spruce and Crucible Tools offer thick card scrapers (not quite as thick as StewMac) for a lot less money.

[Frederick Skelly]

Uh, for anyone unfamiliar, that should be spelled: StewMac, as in Stewart-MacDonald, a Luthier's supply. (Tools, parts, wood, finish, and guitar & mandolin kits.)

Thanks. That was a valuable correction. Have any experience with this scraper David?

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the feedback. (Jim, Id forgotten your thread. Thanks for the link.)

Yeah, I looked at the Crucible too, but the much-thicker Stewmac just looked intriguing and I thought I'd give it a try. I'll let you giys know what I think.

Fred

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I like to look at Antonio Stradivarius's tool kit from time to time. It is quite minimal. He did use some interesting scrapers.

Antonio Stradivari's Original Tools (https://www.kevinleeluthier.com/stradivari_tools/StradivariusTools.htm)

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[Reed Gray]

They very carefully do not list what type of metal it is made from. The video also comments that you can't burnish a burr on it. My guess would be that it is some thing similar to M42 high speed steel. Me, being too frugal to even try one when my standard card scrapers work just fine might experiment with a M42 blank if I could get one. You can burnish a burr on M42 if you have a carbide burnishing rod. You can turn a very small burr on M2 if you use the standard burnishing tools, but the triangle one works better. If I was going to put an edge on one of these scrapers, I would use the CBN wheels or the diamond ones for the Tormek and assorted clones. I did post the comments about a carbide burnishing rod and the CBN wheels on the You Tube video about that scraper, but never got a response. That was years ago.

robo hippy

[David Bassett]

Thanks. That was a valuable correction. Have any experience with this scraper David?

Uh, no. Sorry. I'm aware of it because it's on my "that's interesting, I should try it someday" list. Stephen's comment didn't sound quite right, so I've been poking around and hope the notes below are useful.



I became aware of StewMac scrapers on the Ken Parker Archtoppery YouTube channel. He uses them on his guitars and has a few videos on sharpening them. It’s an interesting tool, but as others have noted, pricey. But with free shipping it’s worth considering. However, Blue Spruce and Crucible Tools offer thick card scrapers (not quite as thick as StewMac) for a lot less money.

I guess Crucible Tools scraper is on the thick end of the range for a traditional card scraper at 0.032", but that's not anything like the 1/8" (0.125") of the StewMac Ultimate scraper Frederick ask about. I can't find the thickness of the Blue Spruce Toolworks scrapers, they say "twice as thick as most card scrapers". (Looking at different offerings I find card scrapers from 0.010" to 0.032", with many many more not saying.) Also their website says they're not available until next month.

After my quick searches the most informative about the differences was a post by Derek (what a resource!) on the LAP Blog:

https://blog.lostartpress.com/2019/03/22/make-your-own-curved-card-scraper/#comment-57784

giving a little history of much thicker scrapers and mention his experience. (I'll bet he has written more here, or on his own website, for anyone interested enough to do some searching.)

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Uh, no. Sorry. I'm aware of it because it's on my "that's interesting, I should try it someday" list. Stephen's comment didn't sound quite right, so I've been poking around and hope the notes below are useful.




I guess Crucible Tools scraper is on the thick end of the range for a traditional card scraper at 0.032", but that's not anything like the 1/8" (0.125") of the StewMac Ultimate scraper Frederick ask about. I can't find the thickness of the Blue Spruce Toolworks scrapers, they say "twice as thick as most card scrapers". (Looking at different offerings I find card scrapers from 0.010" to 0.032", with many many more not saying.) Also their website says they're not available until next month.

After my quick searches the most informative about the differences was a post by Derek (what a resource!) on the LAP Blog:

https://blog.lostartpress.com/2019/03/22/make-your-own-curved-card-scraper/#comment-57784

giving a little history of much thicker scrapers and mention his experience. (I'll bet he has written more here, or on his own website, for anyone interested enough to do some searching.)

David,

At the risk of sounding defensive, what exactly is not quite right? I noted it was an interesting tool, pricey but worth a look with free shipping. I stated that Blue Spruce and Crucible offer thicker scrapers that are not as thick as the StewMac. Are they different tools? I can’t say because i don’t have experience with any of them. But I don’t see anything “not quite right” in my comment.

[David Bassett]

David,

At the risk of sounding defensive, what exactly is not quite right? I noted it was an interesting tool, pricey but worth a look with free shipping. I stated that Blue Spruce and Crucible offer thicker scrapers that are not as thick as the StewMac. Are they different tools? I can’t say because i don’t have experience with any of them. But I don’t see anything “not quite right” in my comment.

I'm sorry, no offense intended.

In my mind, (and perhaps only in my mind,) there are two different classes of scrapers that have come into this discussion. The much thicker StewMac model that Frederick ask about and "card scrapers" which are pretty well known but come in many variations. When I read your comment in the context of this thread it seemed to suggest the Crucible & Blue Spruce were in the former StewMac style, but I understood the Crucible to be a variation of the card scraper style. Something didn't jibe in my mind, that's all I meant. Nothing you said is wrong, just misunderstood.

Then, since I was curious, I looked some stuff up and tried to add information to the discussion.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I'm sorry, no offense intended.

In my mind, (and perhaps only in my mind,) there are two different classes of scrapers that have come into this discussion. The much thicker StewMac model that Frederick ask about and "card scrapers" which are pretty well known but come in many variations. When I read your comment in the context of this thread it seemed to suggest the Crucible & Blue Spruce were in the former StewMac style, but I understood the Crucible to be a variation of the card scraper style. Something didn't jibe in my mind, that's all I meant. Nothing you said is wrong, just misunderstood.

Then, since I was curious, I looked some stuff up and tried to add information to the discussion.

No offense taken. Was just wondering what you found not quite right. Thanks for the clarification.

[John K Jordan]

Frederick,

I've had all three for some years now. I use them constantly. I use the curved ones more, especially for curved surfaces on woodturnings. The first photo shows the two rounded ones with another curved scraper I made myself, the second has one in action, the third shows all three:

486326 486332 486328

I don't use the one with the straight sides as much. I'm experimenting with rounding the corners so they won't dig in. Unlike conventional cabinet scrapers, you don't bend these in use which lifts the corners slightly off the surface. I'll probably round three of the four corners, leaving the lower right to get into tight corners.

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I sharpen them on a 600 grit CBN wheel at 90 degrees. Yes, they are trivial to sharpen IF you set the platform to the right angle the first time. To aid in setting the platform at precisely 90 degrees at the point of grinding I devised a plexiglas gage. I make these for a variety of grind angles for turning tools and NRS; the white paint on the back of the plastic makes them easier to find read the markings. Look at the difference.

486330 486329

I think they are well worth the cost and should last a lifetime. I use many rounded scrapers and the StewMac are sometimes more useful in certain situations.

I forgot to mentioned that I love the way they are shaped, with the central area (which they color black) machined concave. This makes them far easier to hold in the hands. Each has a nice hole for hanging on a nail.

I asked them once if they had considered selling the set of three for a discount and they said “no”.

I bought some 1/8” thick O1 oil hardening tool steel with intentions of cutting some additional curved shapes but haven’t found the time yet. (I haven’t forgotten you, Richard D.!)

BTW, they answer to Stewart MacDonald as well as StewMac. Years ago their web site was full of the two-word name but it looks like they shortened it to a catchier and more easily remembered name presumably for branding recognition. However, they still use Stewart MacDonald on some of their products, such as:

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/supplies/glue-and-adhesive/glues/stewmac-epoxies/stewart-macdonald-epoxy/

JKJ


I was reading the other scraper thread (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?299646-Another-useful-tip-from-Lou-Sauzedde-Scraper) and it reminded me of the Stewmac Ultimate Scraper (https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/scrapers/stewmac-ultimate-scraper/)that I've been hearing about for quite some time. At $54, they are fairly pricey but they have free shipping through tomorrow and that kicked me over the edge. :) It should arrive in about a week.

Anyone here use one of these? What's your experience with them? Do you find them as easy to sharpen as Stewmac's video makes them sound?

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks John!

I use something very similar to the gage you show on my grinder. (Maybe I got the idea from you in a previous post?) That's a good idea - I need to make one at 90*.

Fred

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Old files and old lawnmower blades (the older the better) are good for making thick scrapers and other odd tools that require good hard steel. I can't forget the day in high school shop class when a fellow student asked the substitute teacher (the school principle was sitting in for the shop teacher) what a stack of card scrapers was? The principal said they were step flashing. I laughed out loud and got detention.

[Jim Koepke]

Old files and old lawnmower blades (the older the better) are good for making thick scrapers and other odd tools that require good hard steel. I can't forget the day in high school shop class when a fellow student asked the substitute teacher (the school principle was sitting in for the shop teacher) what a stack of card scrapers was? The principal said they were step flashing. I laughed out loud and got detention.

Never ask a substituting principal an embarrassing question to which he doesn't know the answer. It will always end bad.

Also don't be quick to answer questions. I found that can get one assigned to things they know little about just for knowing something like the meaning of an acronym.

Another thing some like to use as a scraper is a freshly cut piece of glass.

My favorite scraper for flat work is a piece of saw blade, still has the nib.

jtk

[Maurice Mcmurry]

[QUOTE

Also don't be quick to answer questions. I found that can get one assigned to things they know little about just for knowing something like the meaning an acronym.[/QUOTE]

I had to google acronym. Do you mean Stewart MacDonald? I Have done business there for over 25 years. The two Gentlemen I apprenticed with have since the early 1970's

[John K Jordan]

Old files … are good for making thick scrapers and other odd tools that require good hard steel. …

Grinding turning tools of all sorts from old files used to be quite common and I found such recommendations in several old woodturning books. However, later authors and experts describe the danger of using files. The steel is hardened but not annealed for toughness so it can be brittle. A thick scraper broken in use might not be safe. Try putting an old file in a vise and smacking with a hammer. When breaking it can throw sharp flakes of steel.

Lawnmower blade, bushhog blades, planer blades, push rods, engine valves, and other common things are hardened steel but annealed for toughness and not likely to break. However, aggressive grinding can create high heat and change the hardness. If polished tool steel gets hot enough to turn the edge or corner “blue” it’s already lost it’s hardness. HSS does not have this problem since you can’t get it hot enough with a grinder, one reason it’s used in most turning tools today.

JKJ

[Maurice Mcmurry]

My "old file" turning tools are the best I have ever used. They are over 100 years old. I am not going to put them in a vice or hit them with a hammer. I am looking forward to the day when I can break a hand scraper by hand. I use
the square edges of some of these old files as scrapers. They work great. I use my Red Devil too but only if I have no other options.

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[Derek Cohen]

I thought I had replied to this thread, but obviously not.

I must have seen the original StewMac thick scraper about a decade ago, and decided to make my own. The first one was from the rear of a 3/16” thick O1 plane blade. There have been numerous posts about this over the years. It is quite fantastic and one of my go-to tools for shaping curves, cleaning up glue lines, or fixing tearout …

https://i.postimg.cc/cJgPn77p/scraper1_zpsipxdaxzp.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/GmSZtgDP/Scraper2_zpsyar2o7ii.jpg

It is sharpened (hollow ground) on a CBN wheel …

https://i.postimg.cc/rwpB82DF/Sharpening-blade-scrapera_zpslgrvfjha.jpg

Working on the inside face of a bow-front drawer …

https://i.postimg.cc/kXwr3gXp/1_zpspr2v0uh1.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Maurice Mcmurry]

"Regards from Perth" are always preceded by something awesome! thanks for the images!

[Jim Koepke]

Also don't be quick to answer questions. I found that can get one assigned to things they know little about just for knowing something like the meaning of an acronym.


I had to google acronym. Do you mean Stewart MacDonald? I Have done business there for over 25 years. The two Gentlemen I apprenticed with have since the early 1970's

At my last employment we were in a meeting discussing new equipment for the transportation system's Automatic Fare Collection. The system was connected to multiple means of communications. One was a computer network for local operations and controls. Another used a slower network called SCADA. Someone asked, "what the heck is SCADA?" (My previous job was at a company that made controls for power companies to control switching equipment for capacitor banks and high voltage lines. It used SCADA for communications and that was about the extent of my knowledge of SCADA systems.) Without thinking about it I called out, "System Control and Data Acquisition." Nobody else, even the supervisors, had heard of it before. That made me the expert on SCADA. I had to do a lot of research and documentation real fast.

jtk

[Dave Anderson NH]

You should have known the od lie Jim. No good deed goes unpunished. :D

[Maurice Mcmurry]

You certainly had an interesting carrier Jim. I enjoy reading the little bits you share from time to time.

[Clint Baxter]

Like John, I have all three, use them regularly and like them a lot. Would buy them again if they disappeared.

Clint

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks again guys!

[Frederick Skelly]

Well, it looks like I'm on a learning curve.....
* Scraper arrived today and I tried it right out of the box on some poplar. I got crumbles but no shavings.
* So I polished the sides on a diamond stone (this thing is some HARD steel). I tried it again, making sure (again) to keep the scraper close to vertical. But it didnt work any better.
* The finest grinding wheel I currently have is 180 grit, so I'll need to find something finer and resharpen.

This has got to be operator error.

More as I learn it.
Fred

[John K Jordan]

Yikes, it should work better than that, even new. Mine all came sharpened.
Did you:
- follow the sharpening and use instructions in the video on the StewMac web page?
- try a different piece of wood, and try scraping at different angles to the grain? (What kind of wood, maybe I could try mine on the same type?)
- try the scraper from both sides?
I don’t think the 180 grit would be too coarse for sharpening, at least for now. I think it is best for the platform to be at precisely 90-deg so the scraper will work the same on both sides. Before making a gauge (and sorry, I’m sure you know this) I like to darken a place on the edge with a sharpie, set the platform where I think it’s 90-deg, hold the scraper against it, turn it a little by hand, then look at the scratches to see if the center of the concavity is above or below center and adjust as needed.

Did you get the large flat one? I got the impression it was best for convex curves like guitar necks, but I don’t remember if I read that somewhere.

Another think you can do: call StewMac. I did that once with some questions and suggestions and the person I got was quite knowledgeable and helpful.

JKJ


Well, it looks like I'm on a learning curve.....
* Scraper arrived today and I tried it right out of the box on some poplar. I got crumbles but no shavings.
* So I polished the sides on a diamond stone (this thing is some HARD steel). I tried it again, making sure (again) to keep the scraper close to vertical. But it didnt work any better.
* The finest grinding wheel I currently have is 180 grit, so I'll need to find something finer and resharpen.

This has got to be operator error.

More as I learn it.
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

Well, it looks like I'm on a learning curve.....

Keep trying, it took me years to get results from a scraper. Now I am working on getting better results.

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

John, Jim, thank you. I have it mostly figured out now.

I reground the edge because I'd flatted it on the stone trying to figure this out. I also made a jig/pattern for 90*. Then I went back to work, changing my scraping angle relative to the direction of the grain. I think THAT was what I missed.
* Im still getting crumbles on poplar, even trying different pieces
* But I tried Walnut, Maple and Mahogany and I get proper shavings.
I think I'll like this better than card scrapers. It was a whole lot easier to sharpen and put to work.

Thanks guys!
Fred

[John K Jordan]

Excellent!

I'd have to try again to be sure but I think for poplar (and to clarify, yellow/tulip poplar, not "true" poplar Liriodendron tulipifera) I may have needed to raise a significant burr with a burnisher.

As for the angle, I thought I remembered writing something about that in one of my documents and I found this short paragraph in a section concerning scraping turned surfaces with compound curves: "Always scrape "downhill" and with the grain using light overlapping strokes. ... If one direction doesn't seem to work, try a different angle."
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I'm certainly no expert but all this makes me want to do a video on the way I prepare and use various hand and negative rake scrapers, especially related to my favorite topic, woodturning. I'm convinced that if more people used scrapers they would find their surfaces smoother, less distorted, with less sanding and in much less time. Add to the list...

JKJ


John, Jim, thank you. I have it mostly figured out now.

I reground the edge because I'd flatted it on the stone trying to figure this out. I also made a jig/pattern for 90*. Then I went back to work, changing my scraping angle relative to the direction of the grain. I think THAT was what I missed.
* Im still getting crumbles on poplar, even trying different pieces
* But I tried Walnut, Maple and Mahogany and I get proper shavings.
I think I'll like this better than card scrapers. It was a whole lot easier to sharpen and put to work.

Thanks guys!
Fred

[Mark Gibney]

Having read this thread I ordered a scraper from Stew Mac. Excellent tool. If anyone is on the fence I don't think you'll regret having it in your toolbox.
It also comes with a small velvety storage bag, so its less likely to get banged up in the drawer.

[Frederick Skelly]

Having read this thread I ordered a scraper from Stew Mac. Excellent tool. If anyone is on the fence I don't think you'll regret having it in your toolbox.

Glad to hear it Mark!