anti-seize compound usage

[David Zaret]

for those of you who use insert tooling, and moulders where you're constantly swapping knives and such, do you use anti-seize compound on the screws? i'm wondering what is best practice... thanks.

-- dz

[Mel Fulks]

for those of you who use insert tooling, and moulders where you're constantly swapping knives and such, do you use anti-seize compound on the screws? i'm wondering what is best practice... thanks.

-- dz

I used shapers a lot for years in employments. Never ran moulders . One place had two jerks who ran the moulders . A few times over
years they had knives fly out….but it was never their fault !! They did NOTHING when not not running the moulders , except talk to
each other…. and they didn’t really like each other. But since everyone else had work to do they had no one else to yak with ….sad ! They
did not use anti seize stuff , only hubris ! I see no reason to not use never- seize , but you could ask a tech rep .

[Bill Dufour]

If you do it will decrease the required torque to properly stretch the bolts.
Bill D

[David Zaret]

If you do it will decrease the required torque to properly stretch the bolts.
Bill D

this makes sense, thanks. i recently got an insert head from Great Lakes Tooling, and they call for anti-seize on the bolts that hold the backing plates and knives. that was my first experience with it... and then i ran some moulding on my moulders, and noticed that the bolts are a little rusty, kinda tight, and i thought, the anti-seize strikes me as good practice, especially because my moulders can go weeks or even months without use.

curious if this is standard practice for others. thanks.

-- dz

[Richard Coers]

If you do it will decrease the required torque to properly stretch the bolts.
Bill D
You sure that tiny bolt stretches under 48-50 in lbs? I would not expect 4 ft-lbs to stretch a bolt. I assumed the torque was set to not fracture the carbide with the countersink.

[Bill Dufour]

Regardless of stretch or not the torque needed will be different to generate the needed holding force. For larger bolts torque is reduced by 25% or so. I have no idea how much is appropriate for smaller threads. And it depends on what type and brand antisieze is used. Ask the maker for recommendations.
I would guess thread locker would affect torques as well. No idea if it would increase or decrease the torque needed to tighten up the bolt.
Bill D.

On Edit: I read locktite recommends torque reduction of 20%. Only one reference so do more research to verify.

[Michael Schuch]

I use anti-seize when dealing with dissimilar metals. I.e. a steel bolt going into an aluminum block.

I would not have the guts to use anti-seize on bolts used to retain high speed tooling.

[David Zaret]

I use anti-seize when dealing with dissimilar metals. I.e. a steel bolt going into an aluminum block.

I would not have the guts to use anti-seize on bolts used to retain high speed tooling.

i was surprised to see it explicitly called for (and demanded) by Great Lakes Tooling on their insert head. i guess my argument would be this - which is worse, slow degradation of bolts and surface from light rust, or the risk of a bolt backing out, when properly torqued, from anti-seize? i don't know. i'm certainly going to follow their direction for their head....

[Steve Rozmiarek]

It'll reduce galling in bolts that get a lot of use cycles. The correct grease will also reduce galling. Never seize is like a virus, it has the magical ability to spread itself to practically all surfaces near an open bottle within minutes.

[Brian Runau]

I worked with these guys as a customer for about 8+ years. Brian

https://www.ndindustries.com/portfolio_page/nd-product-line/

[Michael Schuch]

i was surprised to see it explicitly called for (and demanded) by Great Lakes Tooling on their insert head. i guess my argument would be this - which is worse, slow degradation of bolts and surface from light rust, or the risk of a bolt backing out, when properly torqued, from anti-seize? i don't know. i'm certainly going to follow their direction for their head....

If a manufacture calls and demands anti-seize I would follow their recommendation.

[Alex Zeller]

Like Steve says, anti-seize is famous for getting on everything. If you use it I would get some 100% IPA (or something similar) and wipe down any residue on the head. Personally I use it on cars where bolts will see conditions a woodworking tool never should. Steel bolts into aluminum housings on an engine for example. If the manufacturer says to use it then most likely their torque values are set up knowing that it's being used. So if you don't you could be under torquing the bolts.

[Mel Fulks]

For most guys one plastic bottle of Never- Seize is more than a lifetime supply. And the friend who inherits even half a bottle is a lucky guy !

[Warren Lake]

I wouldn't want it around any of my older tooling. Slip is not your friend.

I dont get the rust thing, anytime I change or set up tooling jointer knives or shaper the stuff comes apart and all goes under a wire brush and soft wire wheel on the grinder. Every time stuff is assembled the parts and bolts are clean as possible. Thats pitch removed that was stuck on the gib and everything clean. There is no rust on bolts threads end and bolt heads all run under the wheel. It takes a bit of time time but its part of it.

[David Zaret]

I wouldn't want it around any of my older tooling. Slip is not your friend.

I dont get the rust thing, anytime I change or set up tooling jointer knives or shaper the stuff comes apart and all goes under a wire brush and soft wire wheel on the grinder. Every time stuff is assembled the parts and bolts are clean as possible. Thats pitch removed that was stuck on the gib and everything clean. There is no rust on bolts threads end and bolt heads all run under the wheel. It takes a bit of time time but its part of it.

it's minor rust, and only in certain spots... for example, on the williams&hussey moulder, the bolts seem to rust just a little. yes, i clean them, and i try to clean the sockets, but.. it happens. again, i was surprised to see this very expensive custom insert shaper head call for it on the screws and bolts that hold the backing plates and knives on, and it just got me thinking about other equipment with infrequently-used bolts. i think i will use it on the W&H.

[Warren Lake]

stuff light rusts on the woodmaster as well. I just clean it. I dont have any of the new high dollar tooling so havent come across that before.

I just do what they taught us and its always worked fine. Everything is clean and smooth before its assembled. What would make sense is knowing torque values.

[Mel Fulks]

I’ve never seen any bad effects from using it . They put it on engine cylinders when rebuilding. I’ve see guys banging on planers to remove
planer and jointer knives, when just a little never- seize would make them easily removed. And the guys who bang on stuff never look to
see if they have dinged or burred the knife head. I’ve seen plenty of dings and a ding can make a burr ( I’ll let your Dad explain that !) May be that those guys fancy themselves as black- smith ‘artisans’ who want each machine to have “a dis- stink look”

[Scott T Smith]

I use anti-seize on a lot of items, but not anything where it can sling off and come in contact with wood. So to answer your question - no.

[J.R. Rutter]

I use it sparingly, and not every change. Like just a bit on the tip of a toothpick on the first threads. It helps get consistent torque (though I don't measure it now, only the first few times to get a feel for how "hand tight" it needs to get)

[Warren Lake]

my stuff is all cleaned as mentioned, nothing is needed stuff assembles smooth and excellent.

If while in a head bolts did develop some light surface rust its only to my advantage. When you loosen you hear a click as it releases. I use some cutters that are more dangerous than most of you and the last thing I want around them is something that makes things slip when i want to grab. The old guys I knew kept their stuff clean for assembly like they were taught. All my insert stuff or other heads or jointers planers all cleaned the same way each time.

I just bought another split collar head serrated steel edge head yesterday, its filthy. Carpenter bought the machine and used this head and knives in t, the knives were dull as hell and the head filthy. I would have taken it all apart cleaned all of it wire wheel, hand honed or reground or had the knives re ground if it was too far to be honed.

[Joe Calhoon]

I use it sparingly, and not every change. Like just a bit on the tip of a toothpick on the first threads. It helps get consistent torque (though I don't measure it now, only the first few times to get a feel for how "hand tight" it needs to get)

That makes sense JR. Great Lakes is a quality mfg. I think I would follow their suggestions. I believe I will try this on my four side planer moulder. Because of the position of the heads a ball end hex driver is used to change the moulding inserts. This gets used a lot and the the heads strip out fairly quickly. I finally bought a supply of extra screws but this could be a good solution.