Manual dovetail machine Dodds vs Cantek vs ?

[Shannon Brantley]

Does anyone have any experience with these machines? I am really leaning towards the Dodds. I loved what I saw at IWF. And they are American made. Unfortunately, Cantek wasn't there. Not made in America, but supposedly a good factory in Tiawan. It's $2000 difference. Anybody got experience with these two, or one I should be looking at?

For reference, I'm a 4 man cabinet/ furniture shop. Probably would build 20-40 drawers a month so an automatic would be overkill. Looking for something I can trust my guys using for ease, consistency and quality (not interested in a jig/router).
Thanks

[Warren Lake]

IVe seen dodds and Brookmans sell at auctions and a brookman went recently 25 pin semi automated. I dont anything could be faster as four cuts are made in one shot then flip and four more then done. Id be looking at the Dodds if they are US made so you can get parts and service if needed Brookmans not made for a long time. Very heavy build quality.

[Wes Grass]

$2k is $2k ...

20 drawers, $100 each for a month. Or $8.33 for a year.

Multiple users? No hassle dealing with that would be priceless.

But it ain't *my* money.

[Warren Lake]

sure door makers doors are way cheaper. Id never put them on any of my work.

[Jeff Roltgen]

I've got a 2 year old Grizzly GO611X. This is the same as a Cantek, and while it appears made in USA if I understand correctly, the Dodds looks the same as well. Point being, regardless the paint color or style of base cabinet supporting it, these 3 units are all the same design. Not saying same factory, especially in the case of the Dodds, but my gut says, of course these castings all came from the same foundry in Tiawan. Just assembled in USA may be the only key difference in the case of the Dodds.

If you're okay with the above, realizing they all are run in the same manner, I can say,
1> It may take days before you get the thing working well. Have a mountain of scraps and a mountain of patience in your arsenal before beginning. I had the best luck when dis-regarding portions of the instruction manual, which I'd learned from other users of these machines. Be prepared to make your own hardwood registration blocks, as you will see deflection everywhere when you get an hour or two into it, thinking you got it, then scowling at the very next one that doesn't fit worth a darn. The horizontal and vertical fences with HDPE loosely fit at the factory are a recipe for flex, and tight-fitting hardwood blocks fastened to each other are the only cure I could come up with. Expect frustration, but know you can push past it . Just too many tweaks to detail in a post like this.
2> Once you have solidified the bracing, which will also include attaching peel & stick sandpaper to clamping cups and the flat cast table the drawer ends clamp to, things will stay in alignment much better. I also disregard recommended psi for air clamps in order to control part-slippage.
3> Have anyone who plans on running it help with all the above. If you do not completely understand the subtle dynamics of part placement and registration, including watching very carefully for splinters that love to sneak in and cause cause misalignment, things get out of hand in a hurry, and helper Joe's victorious morning of grinding out 30 drawer box parts can be an afternoon of cussing through assembly.
4> I will say, I miss the CNC methodology I used to use, as these machines will fatigue the crap out of you. Heavier-set types with well-developed upper body/ shoulder strength will be able to withstand a session much better than those of a slighter build. I find placing a foam pad, like pipe insulation on the outer bar helps a lot, as I can rest my arms on it and do more of a forearm driven wrist-flex movement vs. full upper body workout. I also put a second spring on the housing to reduce the bounce effect it can have as you run over the outer edge of the lobes.

Al that being said, it can be coaxed into reliably making decent fitting dovetails, and a very careful, attentive operator can run it. My methodology allows me to simply label parts as "ends" and "sides", and sort by width of stock for the different drawer box depths. NO marking/numbering of corners is necessary, as they all interchange, once things are properly set up and aligned. Trust me, that is a very big time and trouble saver, making production much smoother and faster, and why burning the energy on that setup to be as dead-nuts on square and alignment is very well worthwhile, given the investment and your likely expectations.

End results: about the same as the CNC'd parts in time and quality of cut. This machine's advantage is, once you go through the initial setup and tweaking, it's ready to go at a moment's notice. CNC process cost 30-45 minutes setup of jig, test cuts, and tear-down. A deal-breaker when you only need a drawer or two for a small piece of furniture, which is what lead me to a dedicated dovetail machine in the first place.

One last catch: once you tweak this far, you will NEVER want to adjust for a different drawer thickness or dovetail spacing, so choose wisely at the outset. I'm getting along well with 5/8" stock and 1" spacing.

Wish this could be more simple, but dovetails in a jiffy just isn't, at this price point.

Good luck!

jeff

[Steve Jenkins]

I’ve got an Extrema that I picked up for $500. Just needed a new bit and had to make a couple fences. It works great. All my drawers are 9/16 thick and I index from the bottom edge so the fences never move and like Jeff said I use the same spacing on all drawers.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Excuse my ignorance, but are one of these machines faster than a set up Leigh? I suppose they are because you can mill two components at once?

[Mark Gibney]

What a wonderfully thorough reply from Jeff Roltgen!
Dovetail jigs can be like doing a Rubix cube at times.

[Jeff Roltgen]

Steve,
Yes, the fact that you can clamp up an "odd" and "even" set and run both before re-positioning, means you are grinding out 4 pieces, or 2 corners (1/2 a drawer) of joinery, in one cycle.
Exception: my machine has 16" spacing between the left and right (odd and even) fences, so once you exceed 8" drawer side height, you're down to a single corner per cycle, so you'll need to swap L/R fence registration for 4 cycles before a drawer is ready to assemble.

Additional pluses not yet mentioned:
-These are equipped with air clamps, which significantly speeds the process up.
-Dust collection is actually very effective.
-Noise: sounds a lot like my jointer, which is much quieter than a screaming router.

You have touched upon a very valid point to ponder here. If you are not running batches of 15-30 or more drawers regularly, it may not be worth investing in anything more than a respectable router and a Leigh jig.
It's not like dovetail nirvana is achieved, with perfect joint alignment and no dressing required, so it does not outperform any previous dovetail method I've tried, including a Woodrat, Katie jig, and the CNC. They all require a dress-down prior to finishing, such as edge-sanding and yes, (insert cringe here) a little Timbermate filler here and there.
I like to run the tail trenches a few thousandths deep, assuring I only have to flush sand those ends off, vs grinding an entire drawer side to get pins blended down flush. This is why I invested in a 9" edge sander a couple years ago. After glue up, even the largest drawers only need a minute or two to smooth out those sides and move on.

To the hand tool lurkers: No, I cannot speak to the perfection of hand-cut dovetails other than on a few personal projects I've done for myself, and believe me, I do understand, it's an entirely different world, and wish I could indulge in the peaceful, rhythmic flow of handwork.
Since I've been coaxed in the direction of Kitchens Baths and Built-ins to grow and sustain my business, I remain one of those in a constant quest for the highest speed/accuracy machinery I can muster with my one-person operation.

jeff

[Warren Lake]

a machine like a brookman will do a drawer in under 2 minutes maybe less. Filler would not be needed if cutters are clean and machine set up.

A Leigh cant touch that, likely 20 minutes or more for a drawer without checking that statement. The Leigh will look good compared the sterile same same same though.

Hand cut will look nicest look at Dereks work

The pins end up being flush or hair proud and after dry the outsides are sanded on the stroke sander while the wide belt looks on with envy.

[Shannon Brantley]

Thanks for all the replies. And Jeff, HUGE thank you. I'll be using 5/8 as well. I don't expect to ever deviate so maybe after the initial setup headache I'll be where I want to be.