Drawer Designs

[Alan DuBoff]

As a follow-up to Mark's similar question on raised panels, I have a similar need to understand drawer design.

I see various designs, some use runners for the drawers, some have a slider in the middle (wood, sliding in a slot of the drawer), some use a cross member with a long sliding dovetail on the top.

What are the pluses and minuses of each style? Does this depend on the amount of weight that the drawer will need to support when open?

I could ask up in General I guess, rather than hand tools, but I'm looking for solution which I can use hand tools with. To be honest, I plan on preparing most of my stock with power, but using all hand tools from assembly to finish.

I would be curious to hear how others setup the carcass and which methods have worked the best. I will be putting 10 drawers in a workbench I'm preparing to build and didn't want to go out and buy drawer slides if I can create a good working drawer without doing so. A recent post from BobS reminded me of this also, but what more made me realize is that 10 sets of sliders will cost close to $200.

I'm looking for a functional, solid design, which can be done with hand tools.

[tod evans]

alan, the main drawback to a conventional drawer, one without guides, is that it is not full extention. on deaper drawers this isn`t so much an issue but on shallower drawers this frequently poses problems. guides for conventional drawers can be constructed out of uhmw plastic and will provide good service. or you could build your own full extention guides (see pic) but i would advise against this for a bench. only food for thought....02 tod

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[Alan DuBoff]

Tod, it seems one can get almost the full drawer out of a cabinet without slides, but I understand what you're saying. I guess it would be critical on how annoying the obstruction would be by not being able to fully open a drawer.

Living with this limitation, what style of drawer do you find best suited for the bulk of cabinetry?

I know that drawer sliders like the Accuride would work good, I just want to understand if there's a solution that would work almost as well for me without resorting to a metal guide?

[Tim Sproul]

Most drawer designs work.

What makes them work better or worse is the craftsman building the case and drawers. Metal slides require a bit less craftsmanship than the pictured wooden slides.

With a workbench, most of the 'heavy' tooling is kept out in the open. Hand planes and holdfasts and such because these types of tools you want quick and easy access to. Tooling stored in drawers is mostly lightweight stuff - marking, chisels and such.

And $20 per set of metal slides is outrageous. You planning on sleeping in the drawers or something and need 200 pound slides?

I figure that the Shakers, amongst many others, successfully employed simple box drawers and relied on kickers and runners and webframe construction to guide the drawers in their workbenches and furniture in general. I suspect the same design will hold up fine for a typical hobbyist....and it is a design very conducive to hand tools. The 'problem' mentioned previously about an unguided drawer spilling out of the case can be easily remedied with a stop.

[tod evans]

alan, as tim says you can install a stop, or you can move the back of the drawer in from the end of the sides. this will give you full access and support at the same time at the cost of slightly less drawer volume. any more when i build traditional drawers i use uhmw on the webframes and hardwood drawer sides. i occasionally see a vanity i built for a couple 10-12yrs ago and have noticed no obvious wear to the drawer sides and they say the drawers don`t stick. i think that`s pretty good for living in a bathroom? asking what style is best for the bulk of cabinetry.......benchs and kitchens i`ll use metal ball bearing,for furniture well fitted drawers with the uhmw wear strips......02 tod

[Alan DuBoff]

And $20 per set of metal slides is outrageous. You planning on sleeping in the drawers or something and need 200 pound slides?I was pricing 100 pound slides which were $15-$17 per pair. 10 pairs is $170, plus tax if purchased in CA. Shipping if not. Seems pretty close to $200 to me.

Where do you get your slides cheaper than that? Amazon and Woodcraft were similar price, as was LV as I recall. I was pricing Accurides, if that matters.

alan, as tim says you can install a stop, or you can move the back of the drawer in from the end of the sides.I've seen this done, just wasn't sure if that was the optimal solution as you loose part of the drawer.

i occasionally see a vanity i built for a couple 10-12yrs ago and have noticed no obvious wear to the drawer sides and they say the drawers don`t stick. i think that`s pretty good for living in a bathroom?My main concern is if they would hold up being used for a fair amount of weight, although all wouldn't get as much weight. Maye Tim has a place that sells 100 pound slides for $2, that would make it a no brainer.;-)

[Alan Turner]

Tod,
I have given thought over the years to UHMW wear strips, but have never gotten beyond the thinking stage. Do you have a photo or description of how you might use them? Do you inlay strips on the runners? Do you inset a little "dowel" near the front of the runner?
Other than jig work, such as a resaw featherboard, my only use was of a UHMW tape between a bed rail and post,which stopped the bed from squeeking.

[Doug Ketellapper]

For my workbench drawers I bought Sterling ball bearing drawer slides. They're 22 inch low profile full extension slides, and I believe they are 100 lb capacity. I bought them when buying wood at Woodcrafters Store (Paxton Lumber) here in Denver, and they were a LOT less than Accurides. I don't remember the cost, but I got a box of 20 pair, and I don't believe I paid more than 10 bucks a pair for them. I remember going through the same thought process you are now, and I just happened to see them. They're good quality, so it's a brand you might keep an eye out for.

[tod evans]

Tod,
I have given thought over the years to UHMW wear strips, but have never gotten beyond the thinking stage. Do you have a photo or description of how you might use them? Do you inlay strips on the runners? Do you inset a little "dowel" near the front of the runner?
Other than jig work, such as a resaw featherboard, my only use was of a UHMW tape between a bed rail and post,which stopped the bed from squeeking.

alan, i don`t recall any pics? but roo glue or spray 90 from 3m sticks it down well. i just buy a cut off at the local plastics house and cut 1/16 strips off it. use a hand plane to clean it up......02 tod

[Tim Sproul]

My main concern is if they would hold up being used for a fair amount of weight, although all wouldn't get as much weight. Maye Tim has a place that sells 100 pound slides for $2, that would make it a no brainer.;-)

CS Hardware gets good marks from many for their metal slides.

Lee Valley is also selling 'affordable' 75 pound slides.

If you're dumping more than 30 pounds of tooling in a drawer.....:eek: ....make the drawers smaller or put such heavy tooling on a shelf, rather than a drawer.


I'm surprised you have not found antique slides for $0.05 a pop and spent a few hours on each to refurb them to better performance than Accurides :rolleyes: :D!


I have one largish drawer with ~30 pounds of stuff - It has a 5mm plywood bottom and the 'mechanism' is for the 5mm ply to slide in dadoes. It works just fine. The need for metal slides is over-rated....and probably just a cop-out for many to forgoe the craftsmanship and time involved with making a good drawer and case fit.

[James Mittlefehldt]

I was just looking recently at the workbench book and am curious. What did the Shakers use in their benchs, they must have had at least thirty pounds of stuff in those deep drawers, and I do not believe they used slides of any kind did they?

I ask as I am going to build a tool cabinet soon that will have drawers and was wondering about this very issue. Perhaps the use of slides is overrated.

[Mark Singer]

A good inexpensive slide is the Dynaslide...a copy of Accuride they slide great at about $6. per pair! Very easy to use!...my $.03;)

http://dynaslide.trustpass.alibaba.com/group/10736407/Funiture_Slide.html

[Dennis McDonaugh]

My hardwood supplier sells 20" 100lb full extension slides for around $90 a box of 10.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Here are some pretty reasonable too. 15 sets of full extension for $45. www.gliderite.com

[Alan DuBoff]

I'll check some of these out and decide if I want to go this route or not.

Tod, where's a good place to get the UHMW tape/strips if I decide to go that route?

At $5/pair it's more attractive to use slides.

EDIT: Dennis, I decided to try the GlideRites. 20" full extention was $60 for 15 pairs. I'll let you know how they look/work.;-)

[Tim Sproul]

Alan,

If $100 difference on slides is going to stop you from feeding your family, a workbench is about the last thing you should be worrying about :confused: .

[Anthony Anderson]

Thanks Mark, I also need some cheap slides for workbenches and such. Bill




A good inexpensive slide is the Dynaslide...a copy of Accuride they slide great at about $6. per pair! Very easy to use!...my $.03;)

http://dynaslide.trustpass.alibaba.com/group/10736407/Funiture_Slide.html

[Alan DuBoff]

If $100 difference on slides is going to stop you from feeding your family, a workbench is about the last thing you should be worrying about :confused: .When I can get my wife to start bringing in the the majority of the income so that I don't have to worry about providing for my family as much, I guess I can build all the workbenches I want. In the meantime, I don't have $100 extra to spend on slides, $100 extra to spend on ring pulls, or even $6/bf to spend on hard maple. Maybe $500 is no problem for you, but $500 extra does matter for me.

OTOH, it would be much easier to move out somewhere like Livermore where I could afford to spend $500 extra on my workbench so that I don't have to worry about that. But then I'd be living in Livermore...funny how that works...:D

Choice is good, and at least I have the ability to make my own decisions!;)

[Tim Sproul]

Don't know what waiting for your wife has to do with this.

You've posted many times that you'd rather go the 'classic' or traditional route. IIRC, that is one of your reasons for going hand tools. If so, why are you considering copping out and going with metal slides? You can save the $50 and just build the case and drawers appropriately. Yeah, your great-great grandchild(ren) may need to repair them....but hey, that's not so much of a burden, is it :) ?

[Alan DuBoff]

Don't know what waiting for your wife has to do with this.Then I won't have to worry about working and can play in the shop more, on her money, life would be good.

You've posted many times that you'd rather go the 'classic' or traditional route. IIRC, that is one of your reasons for going hand tools.Indeed, and I received feedback on here and in private mail from folks that do have traditional style drawers on their workbench, that they would go with slides if they had to do it over again. That's the type of feedback I find useful, not how I should spend my $$$s. It's not that I only want to use hand tools, just that I would prefer to use them for assembly to finish, when possible. It won't bother me to use power tools to prep the materials.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I like these wooden center slides (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=198&SearchHandle=DADBDBDDDADADDDGDIDCDAGCDIGDDHGBCNDID GDAGECNDEDEGEDCCNDIDFGCDBCNGEDCGGDHDEGGDADGGDDFDID FDADADADBDADADADBDCGEHCGBHHGFHCCAHDGMGJGEGFDADADAD EDADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBDADADADADADADADADADADAD ADBDADADADBDCGEHCGBHHGFHCCAHDGMGJGEGFDADADADBDB&filter=drawer%20slide ), which are pretty inexpensive. Even more so if you make your own.

Pam

[Alan DuBoff]

I like these wooden center slides (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=198&SearchHandle=DADBDBDDDADADDDGDIDCDAGCDIGDDHGBCNDID GDAGECNDEDEGEDCCNDIDFGCDBCNGEDCGGDHDEGGDADGGDDFDID FDADADADBDADADADBDCGEHCGBHHGFHCCAHDGMGJGEGFDADADAD EDADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBDADADADADADADADADADADAD ADBDADADADBDCGEHCGBHHGFHCCAHDGMGJGEGFDADADADBDB&filter=drawer%20slide ), which are pretty inexpensive. Even more so if you make your own.

PamPam, I have seen a design that is similar, but had a dado along the side of the drawer that a support slides inside, similar to the sliding dovetail you linked to.

Do you use this style of drawer on your projects?

[Pam Niedermayer]

Yes, I do use this style, Alan, and will be using it in the kitchen remodel and other stuff around the house. The main reasons are that I can make these myself if necessary and I have this very old dresser that my folks bought me 45 years ago. This dresser is still rock solid after more moves than I want to think about (it's also real heavy out of white ash), and it's got under-the-drawer wooden slides, two per wide drawer. The drawers operate smoothly, don't seem to be affected by humidity, etc.

Pam