Kapex / Sawstop Sliding Crosscut Table - Questions

[Greg Parrish]

I had every intention yesterday of picking up a Kapex to replace my Dewalt non-sliding miter saw to improve dust collection but when I went to look at the Kapex the sliding crosscut table attachment for my Sawstop PCS caught my eye instead. Having previously owned a KF500 slider saw, the approach seems like a nice compromise even though I realize it will be far from the blade once installed. Having the 36” version of the PCS fence, the idea of more easily handling a 48” cut via the left side of the blade seemed to make sense while thinking it over in the store. Also I theorized the dust collection on the table saw would be better.

Anyway, after doing a good bit of reading I’m wondering now if I haven’t made a mistake. I realize they are two different tool categories but they do share some overlap for everyday general repetitive cuts. I’ve never owned a Kapex and don’t know if it would have made that much improvement in areas other than dust collection but am sort of looking for some feedback as I can only justify one or the other at this point in time.

Anyone using the newest version of the sawstop crosscut table that likes it, doesn’t like it, has feedback? Anyone wish they hadn’t bought it and just uses their Kapex or miter saw for those cuts instead? I know this is somewhat subjective based on each persons preferred workflow and style but Thanks for any input.

[Jim Becker]

With a "true slider", I rarely use a miter saw and then only for breaking down material. For the last year when I had a PCS in my temporary shop, my miter saw got used a lot in comparison. The SS sliding table is, IMHO best for panels but it can certainly be used like a miter gauge. What you don't really get with that is the easy ability to do compound miters if you need that. If you don't do that a lot, then just keep the DeWalt to handle that task. I'd also use a sled for short cuts on the TS for both safety and precision.

[Greg Parrish]

With a "true slider", I rarely use a miter saw and then only for breaking down material. For the last year when I had a PCS in my temporary shop, my miter saw got used a lot in comparison. The SS sliding table is, IMHO best for panels but it can certainly be used like a miter gauge. What you don't really get with that is the easy ability to do compound miters if you need that. If you don't do that a lot, then just keep the DeWalt to handle that task. I'd also use a sled for short cuts on the TS for both safety and precision.


So in your opinion, the sliding Kapex will be more useful in day to day material breakdown and angle or compound angle cutting. The sliding table is best with larger panels like when I had to trip 1/2" off of a 48" bench top this past weekend, and that something like an incra 5000 sled or homemade version will be better for trimming/mitering small pieces? End result is that all may prove useful but I'm wanting to do a lot of smaller things like boxes, cutting boards, etc. I also tend to build country farmhouse style stick-built/frame-built furniture. Those things would probably lend themselves more to the sled and miter saw approach I guess than the sliding sawstop table in my case.

I can see that. I may stop by and swap the table back out for the Kapex but wanted to get some opposing viewpoints before I do since I'm 4 hours drive from the store and have to pass it again later today. The Kapex would certainly help to simplify my dust collection issues for the miter in my new shop since I only have the Mini Gorilla and Festool vac for collection.

[Jonathan Jung]

I've got a Dewalt 12" non-slider, the 716, and in about 30 minutes got the dust collection just as good as a Kapex, which I sold. Just used a small sheet of foam to extend the existing shoot closer to the blade

[Greg Parrish]

I've got a Dewalt 12" non-slider, the 716, and in about 30 minutes got the dust collection just as good as a Kapex, which I sold. Just used a small sheet of foam to extend the existing shoot closer to the blade

The 716 is the one I have. I’ve replaced and rebuilt numerous larger chutes and can’t get mine to collect worth a flip using a vacuum. Big chunks, yes, but finer dust ends up in air and on every surface in my mixed use garage. Have any pictures?

[Cliff Polubinsky]

I've got the Sawstop sliding crosscut table and I love it. I use it for large, normal and small stock. Put a sacrificial fence on it and you can do any compound miter cut you want. For me it was one of the best things I added to the saw.

Cliff

[Greg Parrish]

Cliff, any issues with accuracy, deflection of the fence or other concerns? Also did you mount to your left wing or did you remove the wing? Thank you.


I've got the Sawstop sliding crosscut table and I love it. I use it for large, normal and small stock. Put a sacrificial fence on it and you can do any compound miter cut you want. For me it was one of the best things I added to the saw.

Cliff

[Mike Henderson]

I have a Kapex and perhaps the dust collection is better than my previous miter saw, there's still a lot that doesn't get collected. I wouldn't purchase a Kapex just for the dust collection.

It is a good, accurate saw, however, and I use it a lot.

Mike

[Greg Parrish]

I have about 4 or 5 hours to make my decision but I’m starting to think you may benefit from all three. LOL. Sliding table, kapex and sled.

of course the choice for kapex would be to add accuracy and cross cutting benefit due to the slide feature but dust collection was a big part of it too.

[Greg Parrish]

I think I will go back by the store and play with the sliding table a little more. But after reading the comments and thinking about it further, I’m sort of leaning towards the thought there a kapex an incra 5000 sled may be a better fit for my small shop

EDIT/UPDATE: I exchanged the sliding cross cut table for the Kapex. I like the sliding table but decided in the end that I didn’t want to remove the left wing and that I wanted to also leave that spot open for a possible router table wing. Unfortunately that means I’ll have to keep fighting with larger panels or turning to a track saw but I don’t do that many cuts over 36”. The combination of Kapex and a sled seems to make sense in my head for the moment anyway. LOL.

[Jim Becker]

You can cut big stuff with a tracksaw to avoid fighting with large materials on a table saw. Honestly, I chose a short-stroke slider this time around because I know I can't reliably lift and control full sheets on a table saw, anyway. (Not that I use much sheet stock and when I do, I often cut it on the CNC)

[Mike Henderson]

I agree with Jim. A track saw is the way to break down sheet goods. I have a Festool track saw and it is accurate. I used to cut bigger than I needed and finish on the table saw. I don't need to do that with my track saw.

Mike

[Brian Holcombe]

A kapex is a nice job site tool and it’s definitely better than similar job site saws but it’s not a precision machine. I wanted to use the Kapex as a precision miter saw but found it to be incapable of holding precisely square enough that it could be used with an accurate stop system. One would be elated to have such cuts on the job site but I found them lacking for my purposes. I use an Omga and have for a few years now.

Festool stuff is fantastic job site stuff but not a replacement for true stationary machinery, when I use their stuff on job sites or during installs I’m glad I have it.

I have a few track saws that are nice to have for various job site tasks and for rough cutting long, awkward parts. One is the smallest Mafell crosscut saw KSS 300 and the other is K85 which I also bought the crosscut track for. These handle small tasks and large tasks respectively.

[Greg Parrish]

No going back now. Just got home with it. LOL

I realize it won’t be as precise as other methods, but for most of the items I build and use a miter saw for it will be just fine. I’m primarily doing material breakdown before heading to the table saw, planer or jointer. The reason I would be interested in adding the wings is for material support and for the times I need to produce multiple pieces of similar length. That said, most of the items I would be cutting on it are not as accuracy critical at this stage in the process. In other words, I can move to the table saw once I have pieces down to size and that’s where I felt the miter sled made more sense in my case and allows me to still add the router table wing if I want. The bigger reasons I grabbed the kapex are for the incremental increase in dust collection when using just a vacuum and for the wider board capacity that the slide will provide. Many times on my 12” dewalt I have to flip a board over to cut all the way across which is a pain.

[Anyway, I have to call Fastcap once they open as i had ordered a best fence setup for the dewalt. It has been sitting in pending for a few weeks but according to their site it looks like their kapex version of the mounts indicates it only works on the non-REB model. Don’t know why but will call them to find out. if it can’t mount, I will probably ask to cancel since it hasn’t shipped and revert back to the Festool wings so that I’m not bound to having to use a bench top for mounting the wings.]

UPDATE/EDIT: Well, how you like that. Not a word from FastCap regarding shipping notice over last 10 days and my order still shows Pending. They would be just now opening on the West Coast I think but I literally just got a UPS notice for delivery today from FastCap. So, since shipping to me was free and they will be here sometime today, I guess my next move will be to inquire about their Kapex brackets and use the Best Fence wings instead. How's that for timing though, go figure. LOL

[George Yetka]

I despise my incra 5000. I find i am constantly tripping over it and havent found a decent storage solution. I would stick with a 1000 for small stuff or a homemade cc sled. The Kapex is great for what it is albeit overpriced. I own and use it pretty regularly. But would have been fine with a Bosch for half the price. But I get better cuts on the TS. I use the miter saw and follow it up with a shooting board if I need to be accurate.

[Brian Holcombe]

The Kapex dust collection is ok until you put a zero clearance insert on the fence. Well, enjoy the saw, it’s a good saw for non-critical stuff and it’s a heck of a lot nicer than most jobsite saws. I think they have improved the motor on the current model ones, mine died after one year then festool repaired it.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Brian. I remember reading about your issues with the Kapex motor and your acquisition of the Omga. It is certainly a nice saw but a bit too costly and large for my current smaller shop space. Regards!


The Kapex dust collection is ok until you put a zero clearance insert on the fence. Well, enjoy the saw, it’s a good saw for non-critical stuff and it’s a heck of a lot nicer than most jobsite saws. I think they have improved the motor on the current model ones, mine died after one year then festool repaired it.

[David Walser]

Allow me to slightly disagree with those who've said that the Kapex is inaccurate. I think that depends on the type of work you do and on how careful you are in using the saw. Years ago, Malcolm Tibbetts gave a demonstration on segmented turning. (You can see the kind of work he does here: https://tahoeturner.com/newest/.) He said that he used his Kapex for cutting most of his segments and that the cut was so good that the segments need little if any sanding before glue-up. Those of you who are familiar with segmented turning understand how precisely the angles need to be cut. With, say, 24 segments in a ring, even a 10th of a degree error will cause a large gap when you try to close the ring. So, the fact that Tibbetts was able to cut compound miters with such precision proves that the Kapex can be very accurate.

However, segments for most turnings are fairly small. You don't need a lot of cross-cutting capacity for this type of task. What about larger items? An inherent weakness in all sliding miter saws is the amount of side-to-side movement the saw permits when it is fully extended. Some saws have more flex than others, but they all have some. Kapex is better than most in this regard. But, if the operator doesn't use the saw properly (pushing or pulling the saw head left or right, or pushing or pulling the work against the side of the blade as the cut is made), even the Kapex will produce visibly inaccurate cuts. Even with good technique, I doubt you'd want to use a Kapex to cut a 36-segment ring that is 4' in diameter with each segment being 8" from front to back. For that, you'll want to use a very good cross-cut sled on a table saw.

[Brian Holcombe]

I check a test cut with a Mitutoyo certified square and a boxed straight edge that has been scraped flat by hand to an accuracy of less than 1/2 thou over 42”. My straight edge has been checked against a granite surface plate that is routinely re-certified.

I can take any given cut off the omga, check it against this setup and it will show accurate, even after two years of chopping everyday, some tasks taking hundreds of cuts. I can have a student, who has never before chopped a piece of wood in their life, use this saw and they will create the identical result.

I spent a lot of time and effort trying to get the Kapex to repeat like this, it would not. It’s a fantastic jobsite saw, but I really think moderated expectations for its accuracy being well beyond that of a typical chopsaw are the best expectations to set. If somehow you score a saw that can repeat like an Omga, then cherish it. That was not my experience and I have sincere doubts that it is due to me not being capable of using it properly, but certainly could be. :D

[Greg Quenneville]

I have owned a Kapex for six years and have used it on a large house build with lots of period details. For architectural work the saw does a great job. I did have to adjust the fence after the framing was completed due to a .003” vee shape. The trim on this house is extremely detailed, and it all fits right off the saw.

I have also helped friends who owned both Bosch and Makita saws. Both good tools, but I wouldn’t trade.

If I was to attempt the things Brian does though I too would be looking for an Omga.

[Brian Holcombe]

Much appreciated and that is where the Kapex shines, for that matter all of the Festool stuff is just fantastic for architectural install work.

[Greg Parrish]

I would agree that Festool is highly geared towards jobsite use by trade contractors, but that same innovation and technology benefits us small hobby woodworkers greatly. For many of their tools, it is one of the best options available to the small shop hobbiest who doesn't have room for a more commercial sized approach. Same holds true when you are considering a Felder KF700 vs a cabinet saw. Most of us on this forum don't have room for that fully outfitted KF700 in our home workshops. Heck, I didn't even truly have room for my prior KF500 when all of the outriggers were installed. However, for probably 80 to 90 percent of the folks on this forum, especially me, there isn't much better option than the Felder tools that are within my reach, available space and aptitude to actually use them to their potential. LOL

Anyway, I long for the day that I have a huge pole barn shop with space for whatever tool I want but in my current situation I'm working with around 1/2 the space I had before so I'm constantly weighing the decision of which tool best serves the need but also meets the reality. No getting around that compromise unfortunately. And my current setup with the Kapex is going to be another somewhat non-traditional approach/compromise. Just waiting on the Kapex adapters from Fastcap and I can start putting it together in my chosen location. :)

[Patrick Kane]

Greg, i think you made the right call. I had a kapex and sold it. I also had the jessem mast r slide, which sawstop looks to have mostly copied, and sold that when i sold my saw. Not knocking sawstop, but they look almost identical. I used the jessem for several years on a unisaw, and it was good, but not excellent. It needed to be treated with tender respect, and i would not put a large workpiece on that table. I just dont think it can support much weight. Not being right up against the blade isnt always a bad thing. It allows you to run much wider dado tooling, and your crosscut fence doesnt get in the way of performing traditional rips on the saw. Nor does your sliding table cant the workpiece during a normal rip. Its commonplace to make your sliding carriage a bit higher than the cast iron saw surface. With a normal slider, this can tilt your work piece ever so slightly when not ripping off the wagon. In the end, I found the jessem to be a glorified miter gauge. It isnt robust enough to compare to even the lowest end slider's crosscut fence and outrigger. It is a very smooth and greater capacity miter gauge, however.

For the kapex, i had a used model that i used for 2 months and then sold with some other stuff to buy a used Felder KF700. Its a clever design and would be my first choice for trim carpentry. I think the adjustments are slick, and its typical festool quality. I didnt find it to be particularly powerful(old and well worn critique), but i cant knock it too much. It's a good quality portable saw. I consider festool's lineup to be lights out for trim carpenters, and 'good enough' for furniture makers. The track saw cant replace a jointed edge off a 2500lb large jointer. Nor can it match the speed and accuracy of a sliding table saw. Its also comparing a $1500 saw to a $15,000 saw, sooooo.... If you get yourself setup with a reliable stop block, then i think you have the makings of an excellent crosscut setup in your shop.

[Jacob Mac]

I would agree that Festool is highly geared towards jobsite use by trade contractors, but that same innovation and technology benefits us small hobby woodworkers greatly. For many of their tools, it is one of the best options available to the small shop hobbiest who doesn't have room for a more commercial sized approach. Same holds true when you are considering a Felder KF700 vs a cabinet saw. Most of us on this forum don't have room for that fully outfitted KF700 in our home workshops. Heck, I didn't even truly have room for my prior KF500 when all of the outriggers were installed. However, for probably 80 to 90 percent of the folks on this forum, especially me, there isn't much better option than the Felder tools that are within my reach, available space and aptitude to actually use them to their potential. LOL

Anyway, I long for the day that I have a huge pole barn shop with space for whatever tool I want but in my current situation I'm working with around 1/2 the space I had before so I'm constantly weighing the decision of which tool best serves the need but also meets the reality. No getting around that compromise unfortunately. And my current setup with the Kapex is going to be another somewhat non-traditional approach/compromise. Just waiting on the Kapex adapters from Fastcap and I can start putting it together in my chosen location. :)


Are you going to have your Kapex on a mobile stand? If so, what are you going to use?

[Shannon Brantley]

I'm boxing up my Kapex right now because of the motor. Brian, I'd love to hear what Omga you settled on. I'm torn between the miter saw and the radial arm saw. Although I do miter cuts at times, as a cabinet and furniture shop, most of my cuts are square. I can put the Kapex on the end of the bench and still use it for those.

[Greg Parrish]

Are you going to have your Kapex on a mobile stand? If so, what are you going to use?

Jacob, I am not going to be using a mobile stand at this time. I’m actually going to be mounting the saw on a board/panel that will be bolted to the top of a workbench. I’ll be using thumbscrews to hold it down so it can easily be pulled off as needed, but that way it also references back into the same spot. It’s mostly to allow clearance for really long cuts on my table saw if the need arises. I’ll post some pictures once I have everything setup. Hopefully it will make more sense with a picture. LOL. :)

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm boxing up my Kapex right now because of the motor. Brian, I'd love to hear what Omga you settled on. I'm torn between the miter saw and the radial arm saw. Although I do miter cuts at times, as a cabinet and furniture shop, most of my cuts are square. I can put the Kapex on the end of the bench and still use it for those.

I have a discontinued model that is a little larger than the T53 370, it’s fairly recent but they only made it for a few years due to the slightly different table size.

[Greg Parrish]

Have to say, I love the Kapex. Wish I bought one years ago when I had my first shop. Don’t have it fully setup as I’m waiting on the brackets from Fast Cap to mount to the Kapex, and then I can start working on mounting my Best Fence wings. But you can get the idea from the picture how it’s mounted. It will be screwed down to this bench top facing my large door. Will only have wings attached when I’m using the shop and will store them otherwise.

For a production shop, this would require too much walking I’m sure but in my small space it won’t be a big deal. Saw is mounted right next to my small wood rack. I’ll have a walk around from the wings once I get all of the junk sitting by my large red tool box out of the garage. It moves out of the garage to a new storage.

This placement also alleviated my immediate need for a mobile workbench. I now have 3 workbench surfaces available and have one setup to double duty as a sanding station. The vac handling the kapex will pull double duty for a Domino whenever I add one of those to my collection. I’ll circle back and add a few pictures once I get the Best Fence wings sorted. Thanks for all the feedback on the kapex.

EDIT: Yes, the pictures were taken after a lot of vacuuming and cleaning. LOL I'm sure someone is going to say it's way to clean in there to be a shop, but I have to clean up after each use since it's also a gym space and other use room. :)

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[Alan Lightstone]

Greg:

I think you'll like the Kapex / Fast Cap fence combo. I like mine a lot. What bothers me, occasionally, is that I am fussing now with the laser alignment. I must have incorrectly adjusted it at some point, so I'm dialing it in again now. And, of course, dust collection. 36mm hose is a must for that.

That being said, the Fast Cap fence is nice. Measurement couldn't be easier. I think you'll find you have to add a couple of small clamps to the stop, as in my experience it moves when tightened down and a board hits it. I use a couple of small Irwin clamps on each side of it, and that makes it rock solid.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Alan.

I did add the 36mm hose on the Kapex. It's run overhead to the Midi mounted on the wall. The auto start option is awesome as it is with my sander. I found that the way you process the cut and keeping the saw all the way down until the vac stops helps with dust collection as well. I'm still gettting used to the laser but overall I like the approach. Once I get a feel for exactly where to anticipate my cut it will be even better I feel. I'm hesitant to make any adjustment though until I've used the saw some.

On the Best Fence, I had one before and liked it. Before I had the standard style with the rear lip but this time I went with the flat fence. Their website says it wont work with the Kapex REB models but after talking to them it seems as though the brackets can be modified to make them work. They don't have their own manufactured solution yet but they said it should be easy to make the current ones fit. We will see. In the mean time I'm holding off on screwing the saw into place in case I have to use the bench mount brackets that came with my kit. I'll probably still end up needing to order one of their tripod stands for my extension that reaches out into the room though.

I'll keep your comment about the clamps in the back of my head. If I have any issues with movement, it will be helpful to already have the clamp idea in mind. May keep me from overthinking it. LOL


Greg:

I think you'll like the Kapex / Fast Cap fence combo. I like mine a lot. What bothers me, occasionally, is that I am fussing now with the laser alignment. I must have incorrectly adjusted it at some point, so I'm dialing it in again now. And, of course, dust collection. 36mm hose is a must for that.

That being said, the Fast Cap fence is nice. Measurement couldn't be easier. I think you'll find you have to add a couple of small clamps to the stop, as in my experience it moves when tightened down and a board hits it. I use a couple of small Irwin clamps on each side of it, and that makes it rock solid.

[Greg Parrish]

EDIT: For anyone following this thread and thinking about the kapex adapters on the Kapex REB, especially the flat profiled wings. They don't fit and I'm waiting on a call back from FastCap after discovering this. I was able to make the actual bracket fit into the aluminum extrusion as FastCap suggested possible during my call last week, but the wing appears to sit proud of the saw deck by a good 1/16 to 1/8". Only eyeball measured so far, but I can find no way to make a height adjustment with these brackets. Will see what they say and update the thread accordingly as I had sure hoped to make this work.


UPDATE to the EDIT: Just spoke to the folks at FastCap again. They've asked for a week or two and have offered to build me a set of adapters. Basically, they are going to attempt to CNC the existing adapters down so that they will work on the Kapex 120 REB with the flat style wings that they sell. My shop layout was pretty dependent on not having a permanent bracket mounted to the bench top so that saw could easily be removed whenever a larger workspace is needed. They offered that if they were not able to make a set that works, they would take the full set back so that I could pursue the Kapex UG Extensions if I desired. I'm pretty impressed with their responsiveness and service so far and am hopeful that they are able to make this work. Will keep the post updated and will provide pictures once I have a working prototype. Regards.

[Greg Parrish]

UPDATE:

The folks at FastCap were not able to provide the brackets like we hoped. They could machine them down to fit the actual extension wings but the black plastic between the saw and wing was too low. No way to add material there without a new mold and they are not ready to take that step yet. They offered to make the brackets anyway with my knowing there would be a gap that wasn't level, or to take the whole setup back for refund. I chose to send it all back unfortunately as the shipping was on my dime. But at the end of the day I knew I would not be happy with a less than stellar fit and I didn't want to have to craft spacers of my own. I really appreciated FastCap's desire to fix the issue and help make me happy. I can only give them praise for quality service and their flexibility to return the item. It is in route to them now.

As a plan B, I opted for the Festool extension wings. They are not quite as wide or long as the FastCap Best Fence, but honestly I'm finding them more than adequate for my small shop. The pull out extension works just fine for longer boards. I like the fact that they have metal stop tabs too as it feels a little more solid than the FastCap version. However, these have the rear lip on them that the FastCap model would not have had which was a nice feature for bowed wood breakdown. I had planned to use the MFT/3 Mini stand with the Kapex and the extensions but honestly just didn't find it stable enough to my liking. No mater how you positioned the legs or how tight you make them, it feels like a pot luck dinner folding card table. I know they sell stabilizers but for what the MFT costs, it shouldn't require another $100 for some cross bracing. Anyway, I'm using a cabinet from the shop for my base with the Festool wings and it works out just the way I envisioned it.

One more point that I wasn't aware of before getting the extensions in my hands. They can be bench top mounted with the bracket that holds the legs. I wasn't aware of this but it is perfect height for the saw and has screw holes in it for securing to a bench top. Very nice feature.

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