Building a drawer with plowed grooves

[Jason Buresh]

I have a project I would like to do but I am contemplating how to build the drawer.

I would like to use a groove with a panel for the bottom, and I am trying to wrap my head around how to do it.

I watched a video of Paul Sellers method and he plows (ploughs?) Through gooves on all the pieces and the groove that is shown is covered by a drawer front and obviously the back isn't seen.
I would like to avoid using a two piece drawer front and just use the 4 sides and the bottom panel.

I want to avoid using stopped grooves but also don't want the grooves visible from the front.

I am thinking that using a half blind dovetail for the front would avoid that? Is there another method that doesn't involve stopped grooves or half blind dovetails?

For reference most drawers I have built in the past have either been mitered corners with power tools or I have cut rabbets on all the sides of the bottoms with hand tools and used nails to hold them in. While that works, it's more "rustic" than I am looking for with this project

[Jim Koepke]

I have plugged the holes by gluing little piece of scrap into the grooves.

This is one project where this technique was used > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?286634 < The better the fit of the plug, the more it is hidden.

Also plan your drawers so the slot ends in the pins on the side of the drawer. Then any imperfections will likely go unnoticed since people usually do not look real close at the side of the drawers.

Other than that, half blind dovetails is an easy way to hide the slot.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

Half blinds are the traditional solution to this issue.

[Tom M King]

Plan the groove to be covered by a tail on the sides.

[Richard Verwoest]

Or consider slips.

[Graham Haydon]

As Richard said, drawer slips please!
https://youtu.be/FsKDIikhXtY

[Richard Coers]

Mitered draw with dovetail splines.
485991

[Jim Koepke]

Plan the groove to be covered by a tail on the sides.

Then the groove on the sides will show on the face of the drawer.

Another way to do this is to rabbet the ends of the drawer faces to be level with the bottoms of the groove. Then when the drawer is assembled the grooves will be hidden as long as the groove is set to align with the center of a pin.

Of course this all is assuming you do not mind through dovetails showing on the face of the drawer. I do it all the time.

jtk

[Jason Buresh]

As Richard said, drawer slips please!
https://youtu.be/FsKDIikhXtY

Aha! That's a great idea!

[David Publicover]

I use half-blind dovetails and lay them out so that the groove in the inside face is covered by the tails on the sides. No visible grooves, no visible dovetail when the drawer is closed. Pretty straightforward really.
Good luck with it!
David

[Lee Schierer]

I use half-blind dovetails and lay them out so that the groove in the inside face is covered by the tails on the sides. No visible grooves, no visible dovetail when the drawer is closed. Pretty straightforward really.
Good luck with it!
David

Although my dovetails are cut with a router, I do the same thing even though I usually use a separate drawer front that matches the rest of the piece.

[Tom M King]

That's what I was talking about-like David said.

[Ben Ellenberger]

Half-blinds are the normal way to do it. If you are doing simple/not fancy drawers, you can use through dovetails and just plug the hole with a matching piece of wood. If you cut your plugs from the same piece as your sides, the plugs almost disappear.

[Andrew Hughes]

I 2nd the vote for drawer slips. Even if it’s too fancy for this crowd the drawer sides can be thin because the groove is in the slips.

[Derek Cohen]

I have a project I would like to do but I am contemplating how to build the drawer.

I would like to use a groove with a panel for the bottom, and I am trying to wrap my head around how to do it.

I watched a video of Paul Sellers method and he plows (ploughs?) Through gooves on all the pieces and the groove that is shown is covered by a drawer front and obviously the back isn't seen.
I would like to avoid using a two piece drawer front and just use the 4 sides and the bottom panel.

I want to avoid using stopped grooves but also don't want the grooves visible from the front.

I am thinking that using a half blind dovetail for the front would avoid that? Is there another method that doesn't involve stopped grooves or half blind dovetails?

For reference most drawers I have built in the past have either been mitered corners with power tools or I have cut rabbets on all the sides of the bottoms with hand tools and used nails to hold them in. While that works, it's more "rustic" than I am looking for with this project

Hi Jason

When I posted the build on my "Underbench Cabinet", it was intended as a guideline for others on features such as a mitred through dovetail case. It was also a guide for thise wanting to build traditional drawers, in this case, with drawer bottoms into grooves in the drawer sides (I do many with slips, and there are other articles on my website). The articles you may with to peruse are:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinet14.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/DovetailingForBlood3.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDrawerBottomsSlips.html


A few relevant photos.

Start with all the parts cut ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinet14_html_m2684b0e0.jpg


Mark out and cut the tail board (behind the drawer fronts) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinet14_html_3ce118e1.jpg

Transfer and saw the half-blind pins ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinet14_html_m60597101.jpg


Clear the waste from the sockets ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinet14_html_mce17d12.jpg


The front is done .... but the grooves are not yet ploughed ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinet14_html_106cf36a.jpg


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_m28c7b6 f5.jpg


Plough the grooves ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_5c5b1d7 6.jpg


Note that the groove goes through the section where the socket will be in the drawer front ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_m3fa026 96.jpg

Now plough the groove in the drawer front ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_m69c3a4 5e.jpg

... and the drawer sides (the distance is the same for both) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_m6409bf d6.jpg


I would do the same for the drawer back (above) as well, and then saw away the drawer back from the top of the groove.

Dovetail the ends of the drawer sides ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_m4f57eb 82.jpg


When you transfer the side dovetails to the drawer back, this is how it looks ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_2ecf5ba 0.jpg


Cleaning up the dovetails on the drawer back ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_m3e9d2c 4.jpg

[Derek Cohen]

This is how it looks without the drawer bottom (dry fit) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_4f7d7d2 f.jpg


Test dry fit ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_m11fb4c fd.jpg


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDovetailingForBlood2_html_39df93f 8.jpg


Measure and fit drawer bottom (note that the grain runs side-to-side) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetDrawerBottomsSlips_html_m2810cd3e .jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UnderbenchCabinetCompletionCabinet_html_5b8cb296.j pg


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Graham Haydon]

Nicely done, Derek. I'm curious, do you ever use slips?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Graham

I probably build far more drawers using slips than not. As you know, slips are important with drawers with thin sides, and I prefer sides of 6-7mm.

In the last two editions of Quercus magazine, there are articles from me to honour David Charlesworth. I used techniques he taught in building drawers, and showed a simple method for making slips as well.

Here is the rear of a drawer with slips ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/DrawerBottomsIntoSlips_html_m27d7dad8.jpg


A row of drawers with beaded slips ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HTFinalPictures_html_32d1a4b0.jpg


Making a beaded drawer slip (from the articles):

Plough the groove (I am using an adjustable sticking board) ...

https://i.postimg.cc/59qD0Nhd/Slip1.jpg

Use a beading plane to round the top ....

https://i.postimg.cc/15m2N1Sg/Slip2.jpg

Rip off the slip ...

https://i.postimg.cc/c4FjRk1F/Slip3.jpg

Now shape the leading end into a tenon to fit the drawer back groove.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Graham Haydon]

Thank you for sharing that Derek. Hopefully the OP has been dissuaded from making a captive solid timber panel in the proposed drawer.

I do use drawers with captive panels but they are plywood panels and in robust drawers for commercial kitchens. Good quality furniture would use the methods you show with my preference being slips.

[steven c newman]

I usually use a Stanley No. 45 to plough the grooves for a drawer's bottom panel....just the front and the 2 sides. The bottom panel passes under the back of the drawer. Back when they would use solid wood drawer bottoms, they had to allow for the expansion of that panel. Then again, I usually set the back of the drawer in a dado.

[Warren Mickley]

Thank you for sharing that Derek. Hopefully the OP has been dissuaded from making a captive solid timber panel in the proposed drawer.

I do use drawers with captive panels but they are plywood panels and in robust drawers for commercial kitchens. Good quality furniture would use the methods you show with my preference being slips.

I watched the video you presented earlier. The actor shows a 19th century drawer and claims this method was used the the 18th century.

I have examined many 18th century drawers and seen many configurations for attaching the bottom. The video method was not one of them. I have seen this method on machine made drawers.

I think that this would be an unlikely method in the hand tool era. It is just too much work for what it is worth.

[Graham Haydon]

Hi Warren

The Actor is me and actor is generous, twit might be more accurate.

I'm confident that the drawer is mid(ish) 20th century. The wood for the sides is Meranti type wood. I've seen a lot of stuff over here and it fits the bill. Even the screw holding the ply in looks right for my estimate.

Yes 19th century slips were prevelant and I've also seen drawers of a cruder nature ploughed into thicker sides.

You are right to say I don't have a high level of experience with 18th century drawers and I am happy to have been corrected.

[Jason Buresh]

Thank you for sharing that Derek. Hopefully the OP has been dissuaded from making a captive solid timber panel in the proposed drawer.

I do use drawers with captive panels but they are plywood panels and in robust drawers for commercial kitchens. Good quality furniture would use the methods you show with my preference being slips.

Yes, I am definitely not going to use a captured panel anymore.

I do like Derek's first method where the back is cut flush with the top of the groove and then the drawer bottom is slid in and screwed to the back board. That seems like a no nonsense way of doing things.

I am curious though, is there an advantage to using slips? Is this merely an aesthetic thing or is it just a way to make drawers if you only have thin stock?

It seems like extra work and chance for error for not a lot of benefit

[Graham Haydon]

Jason, I like slips. You can make them in various ways, if you don't fancy it, don't do it. I think the most important thing is you're not going to make a captive base.

Warren, I took a moment to read up https://pegsandtails.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/constructing-a-mid-eighteenth-century-drawer/ . I'll do a video that corrects my statement so I don't mislead people. Thanks again.

[Jason Buresh]

Maybe I came across as snide, but that was a honest question in my previous post.

Is there a structural benefit to slips or is it an aesthetic thing?

I guess what I meant was I find it hard to imagine that craftsman back in the day would take the extra time to do something if there wasn't a benefit to it. Wether that benefit be a sign of craftsmanship so they can charge more for a piece or wether it's a structural thing.

[Graham Haydon]

Jason, far from it, I detected no snide. I like slips because they are a good way to work with thin drawer sides and allow for quite a straight forward way to make a drawer. I like the way they create a broad bearing surface in contrast to a thin side.

If the sides are thin you don't have much meat to sink a groove into. The link I shared shows a historically accurate approach for the 1750's which is also a good option as it also creates a broad bearing surface.

A groove into the side is okay but not my favourite approach.

[steven c newman]

Slips use to be made from a hard wear resistant wood, because that was also what the drawer would slide on....

[steven c newman]

Used a thin, secondary wood (Poplar, Pine) and they added a harder, wear resistant slip to both hold the drawer's bottom...and a place for the drawer to slide on, that prevents wear from the softer drawer sides.

[Tony Wilkins]

Also, you can use much thinner stock for the drawer sides if you wish.