More on Push sticks

[Patty Hann]

Hi folks... Another thread on push sticks /blocks
I have a Dewalt Jobsite saw. (Just call me Tamra 3X3CUSTOM junior :)... she's got a Sawstop now....lucky her )

I'm making an outfeed table for it, have already made a short depth infeed "apron" for it.
I'm in the process of making push blocks and sticks for it.

For the block I'm using a template I found on the William Ng website, the parallelogram design push block
(https://wnwoodworkingschool.com/product/push-stick-template/)(I don't know if that's his own design but that is where I first saw it)

So what is the narrowest push block (or stick) that is safe?
I've made some from 3/4 and 1/2 birch ply. Can I go to 1/4?
Also when making these of any thickness, is there a reason to use birch ply rather than MDF?

Thanks

[Steve Demuth]

Good to meet you Tamra/Patty. Great questions for a new table saw user/owner.

I would not want a push stick under 1/2". Personally, I make all mine from 3/4" material. I also would avoid using MDF - it's stiff enough to be safe at 3/4", but it's going to wear and chip excessively. A push stick with rounded edges is a less safe tool.

[Dave VanDewerker]

All of my push stick/blocks are disposable. They are all made from either 3/4 or 1 inch plywood. If I am cutting something thinner I just run the push block right over/thru the blade. One of these days I will make a push stick with a replaceable shoe.

[Bradley Gray]

This always gets a rise - I use ice picks for ripping smalls

[Mark Gibney]

Hi Patty - depending on what material you are pushing through the blade, 1/4" plywood might be okay for a push stick, but as Dave says, you can just push a stick from 3/4" material straight through the blade and obviously it will be trimmed to fit the clearance.

The pattern of push stick you show is what they use at the Cerritos College woodworking program (east side of Los Angeles county). The story I heard is that William Ng went through their program and adapted many of their teaching projects to his own courses - if true it's a testament to their effectiveness and usefulness.
We were encouraged to treat the push sticks there as expendable / disposable so that we used them without worrying they were getting beat up.
When I make push sticks now I don't bother with the finger slot.

[Edward Weber]

+1
I wouldn't go under a 1/2" You want the push stick to be stable/stiff without being too flimsy. Like others, I make them from a good quality plywood (little to no voids). If the stick get cut, that's fine, make another. There are lots of designs you can use, just make sure it's comfortable for you, be safe.

[Patty Hann]

@Steve Demuth, @Dave VanDewerker, @ Edward Weber.....thanks for the advice/answers
@Bradley Gray...how do you use an ice pick for ripping? I can't even envision that :confused:
@Mark Gibney... thank you for the reply and push-block story :)...
And in case anyone is wondering I didn't buy the template... $9 (plus shipping?) is far better spent elsewhere (tools, bits etc).
(And I can draw a parallelogram with the best of them :D.. used 1/2" MDF for it...worked great so far for 6 of them out of birch ply)

[Lee Schierer]

My push sticks look like this.485975 They give you good down pressure and ability to push a piece through the cut while keeping your hand well above the blade. They are all made from scrap plywood. The base of the one in the photo is over 12" long.

[Patty Hann]

Lee, thanks for the reply.
I've used that style before but I'm always concerned about the handle [eventually] breaking off, which means my hand would go right into the blade.
But then maybe it's fine if it's 3/4 or 1" ply.
The Ng design has more wood and so (imo) more support.
Even if it doesn't really make a difference I think that it makes a difference. So it makes me less... ummm... nervous.
(And you never want to feel nervous when using a TS)

[Edward Weber]

I like this style, not all the bells and whistles, but the overall shape is comfortable for me.
I've heard it called by many names.
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/11-in-1-table-saw-mate-push-stick-woodriver

[Mike Stelts]

I use a pushblock about 1.5" wide for thin stock, letting the blade cut into it. (The blade is just high enough to clear the stock being cut.) When the "pusher" on the back gets frail, I cut it off and do the same thing again.

[Vince Shriver]

Hi Patty - depending on what material you are pushing through the blade, 1/4" plywood might be okay for a push stick, but as Dave says, you can just push a stick from 3/4" material straight through the blade and obviously it will be trimmed to fit the clearance.

The pattern of push stick you show is what they use at the Cerritos College woodworking program (east side of Los Angeles county). The story I heard is that William Ng went through their program and adapted many of their teaching projects to his own courses - if true it's a testament to their effectiveness and usefulness.
We were encouraged to treat the push sticks there as expendable / disposable so that we used them without worrying they were getting beat up.
When I make push sticks now I don't bother with the finger slot.

William Ng has several tutorials, one of which is "push sticks". He is the author of the 5-cut calibration method, among others.

[George Yetka]

I dont use the larger pushsticks or the grripper. I have a couple benchdog pocket push sticks. I use them in conjunction with pencils(the eraser side) for anything that puts my fingers over the red on the saw. anything that leaves me sufficient room between the fence and the redzone I use the fingers. Im not doing this for a living so I take my time at the saw never a rush for me, im there for fun.

[Bradley Gray]

how do you use an ice pick for ripping? I can't even envision that :confused:

https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/safe-push-sticks (https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/safe-push-sticks)

[Tom M King]

I don't use a single one that doesn't have a hold down function as well as push. A lot are just made quickly, but there are several close at hand.

An older version of this is probably my most used one:
https://www.rockler.com/bench-dog-push-loc?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gclid=CjwKCAjwsfuYBhAZEiwA5a6CDAVQ1UBebm0tnbOU3A4o jnv6Jt0e4F4BpKcipLIZDNgQr2laNLIv1BoCkGsQAvD_BwE

It gives extra clearance for the over blade dust hood before having to swing it away.

I never use any one that works anything like this one: https://www.rockler.com/bench-dog-pocket-push-stick I don't mind sacrificing a scrap plywood one.

[Johnny Barr]

I use 4.
They all have some grippy material glued to the base and 3 of them have a heel to help push the stock. The push block is from a Steve Ramsey video similar to a Microjig's Grrripper. I've also made a bunch of replacement parts when they get chewed up

485992

[Patty Hann]

I don't use a single one that doesn't have a hold down function as well as push. A lot are just made quickly, but there are several close at hand.

An older version of this is probably my most used one:
https://www.rockler.com/bench-dog-push-loc?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gclid=CjwKCAjwsfuYBhAZEiwA5a6CDAVQ1UBebm0tnbOU3A4o jnv6Jt0e4F4BpKcipLIZDNgQr2laNLIv1BoCkGsQAvD_BwE

It gives extra clearance for the over blade dust hood before having to swing it away.

That one looks interesting...will have to think about it.



I never use any one that works anything like this one: https://www.rockler.com/bench-dog-pocket-push-stick I don't mind sacrificing a scrap plywood one.
Do you mean any of them that really do just look (more or less) like a stick?
If that is, in fact, what you mean, why would you never use one? ("Never" is a pretty final word)
What is it that you dislike about them?

[Lee Schierer]

Lee, thanks for the reply.
I've used that style before but I'm always concerned about the handle [eventually] breaking off, which means my hand would go right into the blade.
But then maybe it's fine if it's 3/4 or 1" ply.
The Ng design has more wood and so (imo) more support.
Even if it doesn't really make a difference I think that it makes a difference. So it makes me less... ummm... nervous.
(And you never want to feel nervous when using a TS)

Since my push sticks are made from plywood, it is unlikely that the handle would break off. Even when using a push stick, your hand should never be directly over the blade and if a guard is used, you wouldn't likely hit the blade. If that concerns you, then maybe you should consider a saw stop.


Do you mean any of them that really do just look (more or less) like a stick?
If that is, in fact, what you mean, why would you never use one? ("Never" is a pretty final word)
What is it that you dislike about them?

To me the straight stick type of push stick puts your hand at an awkward angle ass opposed to the grip on a push stick with a hand grip such as I showed above. The gripping area of a stick type is also pretty small.

[Robert Hayward]

This is what I use. The top one is well used. Quick to make from scrap 3/4 plywood using the bandsaw. I usually make five or six of each size and keep them in a drawer close to the saw.

[Andrew Hughes]

I have not had good results with push sticks that push from the end of the board. I get much more control with a aluminum one from rockler with a sharp point that only touches the top I can keep pressure inward towards the fence and forward. With pressure down someone upthread mentioned using a ice pick I agree.

[David Stone (CT)]

I've used this one for many years. It works great-- excellent control thanks to the design and the spring loaded pushing pin at the back means it works for all thickness of material.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/power-tool-accessories/safety/push-sticks-and-blocks/30067-dual-tread-push-stick?item=03J7550

[Bruce Wrenn]

My push sticks look like this.485975 They give you good down pressure and ability to push a piece through the cut while keeping your hand well above the blade. They are all made from scrap plywood. The base of the one in the photo is over 12" long.My push sticks are of similar design, but with one exception. The soles are replacable. When one is worn thru from many cuts, pop it of and stick another on.

[Patty Hann]

I use 4.
They all have some grippy material glued to the base and 3 of them have a heel to help push the stock. The push block is from a Steve Ramsey video similar to a Microjig's Grrripper. I've also made a bunch of replacement parts when they get chewed up
485992

Neat. I like the idea of the grippy material. It looks like the stuff used for kitchen/pantry shelves. Is it?

[Tom M King]

Patty, I don't like using one that doesn't give complete control. The ones like Robert posted, I would never use. I want hold down, as well as push.

I probably should add that I have never used a table saw with any kind of safety device, other than a push stick that holds the piece down as well as pushes. Yes, I still have all my fingers and have never had a woodworking stationary tool accident. Fingers or hands never get close to the blade, or are over or behind the blade. Also, I almost never do crosscutting on a table saw.

[Patty Hann]

Patty, I don't like using one that doesn't give complete control. The ones like Robert posted, I would never use. I want hold down, as well as push.

I probably should add that I have never used a table saw with any kind of safety device, other than a push stick that holds the piece down as well as pushes. Yes, I still have all my fingers and have never had a woodworking stationary tool accident. Fingers or hands never get close to the blade, or are over or behind the blade. Also, I almost never do crosscutting on a table saw.

Well, I assumed you used something to hold the work piece securely. :)
You don't have a riving knife on your TS?
I removed that huge mess of clear plastic (aka "safety guard) but I do use a riving knife unless I'm making a bevel cut.
On the big cabinet saws I have used none had a riving knife that "followed" the blade when you set up a bevel cut...but maybe they didn't (and still don't) because it's not possible for a saw to do that.
But other wise I always keep the riving knife in place.

I did crosscutting on cabinet saws using my own Incra miter (a basic one, not the fancy one)...have cross cut sleds too. I like them a lot
The miter on the dewalt is a major joke (as are the sloppy slots) but I've shimmed the slots (on the side) and have made (not yet finished ) a smallish CC sled.
I'm also completing an OaK Zero clearance throat plate.
I'm hoping all these improvements also help with safety. Hoping...hoping...hoping... ;)

[Bob McBreen]

I love the William NG design. I built the template, gathered all of my plywood scrap & made about 150. 3/4", 1/2" & 1/4", basically all of the stuff lying around. 1/4" is the least useful. I mostly use 3/4" push sticks & just replace them when they get chewed up. I wouldn't bother making the 1/4" again.

[Tom M King]

No, I have never used a riving knife, nor any other kind of safety device, nor have I ever known of anyone else who did, personally. Back when I first started, in the early 1970's, I almost had to get in fights with the old guys who worked for me to get them to use the guard on jointers.

I have special purpose sleds, but crosscutting on a tablesaw sled mostly scares me. I use a Radial Arm Saw, or miter saws for almost all crosscutting. I'm not suggesting anyone else do what I do, but I'm comfortable working my way for myself. If I'm woodworking, I'm producing work for a living. Personal safety is never compromised.

[Patty Hann]

No, I have never used a riving knife, nor any other kind of safety device, nor have I ever known of anyone else who did, personally. Back when I first started, in the early 1970's, I almost had to get in fights with the old guys who worked for me to get them to use the guard on jointers.

I have special purpose sleds, but crosscutting on a tablesaw sled mostly scares me. I use a Radial Arm Saw, or miter saws for almost all crosscutting. I'm not suggesting anyone else do what I do, but I'm comfortable working my way for myself. If I'm woodworking, I'm producing work for a living. Personal safety is never compromised.

I'm just a hobbyist and have been taking WW classes at the local CC. So I larns it the ways they teaches it ;)

[Mike Walsh]

There's a good article on push sticks in FWW by Ellen Kaspern: https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/shop-machines/mighty-diy-push-stick. I've used this style for years made from 3/4" and 1/2" birch plywood with good luck. As others have said, there's no need to go thinner than 1/2" as you can just run the stick through the blade. I have a dedicated 1/2" stick for ripping 1/16" banding

[Ole Anderson]

A push stick keeps your fingers safe, a push block keeps your fingers safe plus it keeps the material from rising as you push into the blade. I no longer have a push stick, just push blocks.

[John Lifer]

I've got one I've used for a long time. I do my best not to chew things up, so it has lasted. Closer to Ole's design, but simple, no handle area, more of a triangle with the top point cut off, but it has a 8 inch long area to HOLD DOWN the piece. I wouldn't use the little end hold down. I've had too many things want to throw stuff back at me.

[Patty Hann]

I love the William NG design....I wouldn't bother making the 1/4" again.
Good to know that about the 1/4" size. I won't waste time/materials on any. Thanks

[Lee Schierer]

I'm also completing an OaK Zero clearance throat plate.
I'm hoping all these improvements also help with safety. Hoping...hoping...hoping... ;)

I made a zero clearance throat plate for my Craftsman TS that has a replaceable insert.
486037

With regard to safety the most important safety device is located between your ears. Before making any cut think through how it will be done and what might happen. If you aren't comfortable making the cut the way you have it set up, then don't. Listen to that little voice that make you nervous and find another way to make the cut. If your read many reports made by people who have been hurt, most will say that they weren't comfortable, but did it anyway. I've been woodworking since I was 10 and I am now 73. I've had one serious incident with power tools that caused an injury. I made the forst cut with no issue, the second cut grabbed a little but I managed to control the piece. I go bit on the third piece after not thinking about what had happened on the second cut. It cost me 21 stitches in my little finger and over 3 weeks out of the shop. I was fortunate, I still have the finger and it still works perfectly.

[glenn bradley]

Push sticks / blocks are like saw blades, routers or router bits . . . there will always be a bunch that do different things.

486038 . 486039 . 486040

[Patty Hann]

I made a zero clearance throat plate for my Craftsman TS that has a replaceable insert.
486037

With regard to safety the most important safety device is located between your ears. Before making any cut think through how it will be done and what might happen. If you aren't comfortable making the cut the way you have it set up, then don't. Listen to that little voice that make you nervous and find another way to make the cut. If your read many reports made by people who have been hurt, most will say that they weren't comfortable, but did it anyway. I've been woodworking since I was 10 and I am now 73. I've had one serious incident with power tools that caused an injury. I made the forst cut with no issue, the second cut grabbed a little but I managed to control the piece. I go bit on the third piece after not thinking about what had happened on the second cut. It cost me 21 stitches in my little finger and over 3 weeks out of the shop. I was fortunate, I still have the finger and it still works perfectly.

Pretty neat throat plates... I guess you must have a milling machine?
Thank you for the safety reminder(s). Early on in WW I learned about "the little voice" and have mostly heeded it.
Not saying it's not important to always heed it, only saying that I've sometimes ignored it, but fortunately have lived to tell about it (all the fingers lived too).
But it is so rare now...I just step back and look at the setup and finally figure out a way to do it safely, even if takes 3 times longer to make the cut.

My scariest lesson was on the router... too small of a piece with too big of a bit.
It could have ended spectacularly bloody, but it didn't. Just sent the piece flying across the room.
Correction: sent the "chewed up piece" flying across the room. Lesson learned.