New Tool Day...two months early. SC3C arrives

[Jim Becker]

With the new shop going up shortly (work hopefully starts late next week), I placed an order for a new slider to replace the SCM/Minimax S315WS I sold last summer to avoid paying big bucks to store it for over a year and having to move it twice. I chose the SC3C short stroke slider this time around and the anticipated delivery was mid- to late-October. I guess the supply chain gods were in a good mood 'cause that sucker arrived in the port of Savannah on the 19th and I picked it up at the local FedEX Freight terminal yesterday. Given I have to store it in the temporary gara-shop, I guess I'm move it twice anyway. LOL At any rate, far be it for me to complain too hard about "new tool day". (shipping cost was still outrageous, but it is what it is) There was one small chunk of OSB torn off one end of the crate up high, but zero evidence of anything affecting the clearly well wrapped machine inside. I do not intend to unbox this, although I may remove the crating once I have it into the gara-shop safely.

Here are a few pictures of the pickup yesterday. Today I'll be working on getting that 1246 lbs crate of goodies off the trailer safely ... and slowly. Dollys are under it and once I remove the cribbing, I'll choose whether to tilt the trailer or use ramps. Either way will use the winch to keep things slow and steady. I'm concerned about the ramps I have due to the weight and the point pressure that the dolly wheels exert. Unloading the S315WS years ago was done by using the trailer tilt, so that's likely how I'll do it this time, too. Also need to get some "friends" to assist.

485384 485385 485386

[John Kananis]

Exciting! Enjoy your new machine.

[Bruce Page]

It doesn't get much better than a new slider for an upcoming new shop!

Congrats

[Jacques Gagnon]

…almost like a Christmas time present but without the snow.

I am sure you will enjoy your new toy; congratulations.

Regards,

J.

[Aaron Inami]

That's awsome! Looks like the crate barely fits on that trailer! lol. It's always exciting to bring home new tools. Coincidentally, I just picked up a Hammer HS 950 sander yesterday. It's like a mini-me crate for yours. I bought a 20" pallet jack at the same time.

485409485410

By the way, that's not me in the photo, lol.

My Felder rep is recommending to rent a drop-deck trailer to move the bigger machines like your SC3C. We have a rental chain called "Sunbelt Rentals" that have these trailers. They call them "lift-bed trailers". These are on electric/hydraulic lifts and will drop the bed of the trailer all the way to the ground. At that point, you just roll the pallet off with a pallet jack (or a pair of pallet jacks for 7 foot crates). I can get a dual axle 12 foot lift-bed for $95 day:

https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment-rental/0241717/12-lift-bed-tandem-axle-trailer-10k/

[Steve Wurster]

Congrats, Jim! Hopefully they can get that shop built and ready for this saw sooner rather than later. Let me know if you need help getting that into your garage.

[Jim Becker]

So unloading the crate was surprisingly easy...I didn't need any strong friends and although the "prep" took awhile, the actual deed only took about three minutes. The prep included lashing two HF polypropylene and steel moving dollies under the crate (my cribbing was intentionally about a half inch higher than the dollies), removing the cribbing using a scissor jack and repurposing pieces of them as lateral guides to insure the whole thing couldn't move laterally, positioning the trailer so when tilted it would be as close to the "step" of the garage door opening as possible (missed it by three inches, but easily filled with some scrap 3/4" plywood), moving the unit back enough but secured by my winch so that the trailer would use the load's weight to tip the trailer bed and then letting out the winch to slowly slide the thang down to the gara-shop floor. The dolly closest to the end going in the door first was set farther from the end so there was enough room to get the weight shift. (done with a 2x4 screwed to the trailer deck near the end as a stop) I also placed an additional dolly to initially catch the end of the crate because the angle would have the end of the crate hitting the floor until the other end got down the "ramp" far enough to ease the angle. The only reason I broke a sweat was because it was hot out...it was darn easy and that winch I added to the trailer for the shop move last year once again paid for itself several times over. (Steve W can attest how that winch came in very handy for the move since he helped) Now once that crate was on the floor, it was darn hard to roll. I was able to shift it laterally with a little wiggling, but brought the tractor up to push it deeper into the space so I could keep my miter saw stashed between it and the overhead door.

Here are some photos of today's exercise which I'm glad got done "before lunch" so I could get back on my guest bath project. I want that finished before the "building of the building" starts end of next week.

485436 485437 485438 485439 485440

As an aside, used this little bucket mount hitch receiver I scarfed off Amazon to put the trailer away in the back yard rather than drive my Ascent back there. Worked very well and was uber easy to "back" the trailer into the place I decided to park it this time. "Back" is kinda the wrong word as you "front" it into the space. LOL

485441

[Brian Tymchak]

Totally envious.. Good luck with the build!

..Who knew a small tractor could be so handy in the wood shop? ;)

[Greg Parrish]

Awesome! Congrats Jim!

[ChrisA Edwards]

Cool, can't wait to see it setup.

[Jim Becker]

Even though this thang is going to stay on the pallet for awhile, I did choose to remove the crating so I could inspect for any obvious damage. There was none. Just a lot of nails to pull. LOL And very splintery ~10mm OSB. Everything seems to be there and it's a fine looking machine.

485595 485596 485597

[Albert Lee]

Very jealous of the speedy delivery. I ordered my Scm panel saw in Jul 2021. It looks like it will be delivered in 2023. Maybe because it’s a L’Invincibile?

[Greg Quenneville]

Nice saw Jim, and now I have tractor envy.

I gather that the big manufacturers batch build items from their catalogues. I know that Felder for example only makes certain components once a year. Jim may have got lucky and ordered right before a build cycle. I imagine that the L’Invincible batches are really low volume and infrequent.

[Steve Jenkins]

Envious Jim. Really nice machine.

[Jim Becker]

I gather that the big manufacturers batch build items from their catalogues. I know that Felder for example only makes certain components once a year. Jim may have got lucky and ordered right before a build cycle. I imagine that the L’Invincible batches are really low volume and infrequent.

For the US market, SCM/Minimax tends to have a stream of "fixed configurations/bundles" for a number of the machines always on order from the factory, like the SC2C, SC3C and SC4C, that come with a bunch of goodies, depending on the model chosen. As customers order, they get assigned the next incoming serial number for the machine they have arranged to buy. Someone told me awhile back that they actually like to stock the popular packages, but I'm betting that's been more difficult due to supply chain challenges over the past two years. One can order something built to suit, but those folks have to wait a bit longer. I wouldn't be surprised if the more industrial, higher end machines are more of the 'special order' situation, but don't know that to be a fact. Other market geographies probably have their own thing going. I'm guessing the Albert may have been caught up in both the geography thing and the higher-end machine process thing.

[Mike Wilkins]

Fine looking instrument you got there. I'm familiar with the lead times on European machinery. I ordered a Hammer F3 shaper back in February and it just got to these shores a couple of weeks ago.
The truck arrives on Friday.
Now to start saving for some cutters.

[glenn bradley]

Really excited for you Jim. Congrats.

[derek labian]

Congratulations again, Jim! Always fun to see the pictures and hear the story. How are you planning on getting it off the pallet when your ready?

[Jim Becker]

How are you planning on getting it off the pallet when your ready?

I haven't really thought that far ahead, but probably the same way I did with the S315WS "back in the dark ages" of about 2005 or so...a makeshift ramp, get it on the dollies that are currently under the pallet now, roll it down and then get it on the floor and moved around with a pallet jack. If I had a larger tractor, I'd fork it off, but this thing weighs a lot more than my particular tractor can lift up front.

[Jeff Bartley]

Congrats on the early delivery Jim! Your old SW315 is still serving me well! I’m looking forward to seeing your new shop go up. I bet you’re really excited now!

[Jim Becker]

Congrats on the early delivery Jim! Your old SW315 is still serving me well! I’m looking forward to seeing your new shop go up. I bet you’re really excited now!

Thanks, Jeff! You know that I'm really happy that the "old girl" (who's still pretty young) is getting a workout doing impressive things for you. I'm sure her "little sister" will bring smiles back to me once I can start using her...I've truly missed having a slider, even for the little projects. Build started today...thread in Workshops. I hope you'll get to visit so you can compare the new to the old.

[Albert Lee]

Nice saw Jim, and now I have tractor envy.

I gather that the big manufacturers batch build items from their catalogues. I know that Felder for example only makes certain components once a year. Jim may have got lucky and ordered right before a build cycle. I imagine that the L’Invincible batches are really low volume and infrequent.

I think you are right Greg, I dont mind the slowness, good thing takes time, I have a panel saw I can use for the time being.

[Jim Becker]

I found a nice bonus in the box of smaller accessory parts...a very nice 12" 48t Italian made GP blade. So I'll have a nice spare should something happen to both of my WW-II 48T blades.

[bob cohen]

Congratulations, Jim. That is one fine saw!

[Derek Meyer]

Jim, if you have to have materials delivered for your building (like sheets for interior walls), maybe you can ask for a delivery truck with a forklift to come, and they can use that forklift to put your saw's pallet on the floor for you. I know my business would have no problem doing that for you during a delivery.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, if you have to have materials delivered for your building (like sheets for interior walls), maybe you can ask for a delivery truck with a forklift to come, and they can use that forklift to put your saw's pallet on the floor for you. I know my business would have no problem doing that for you during a delivery.

Unfortunately, my orders/buys are too small for that kind of delivery service, but I can certainly check it out. It's a great idea for sure.

[Jim Becker]

Ok...several months later...it was time to move this beast into the new shop building and get it functional because I actually need to use it for the very last official new shop building construction task which is boxing in and trimming out the windows and person door. My younger daughter's SO came over Saturday morning to assist and after using the winch to get the pallet back on the trailer, the machine was off to its' new home. All the pieces and parts were placed on another, smaller pallet and made a separate trip across the lawn. :)

491485

This machine was surprisingly easy to get off the pallet using my long ramps and the pallet jack I picked up about a week ago. So after removing the dollies that were strapped under the big pallet, using the pallet jack as a, well...jack...rolling it down the gentle slope was quick and easy.

491488 491490

The first task was to do the "clean off the top" dance with some mineral spirits. Whatever they use these days was a lot easier to get off than the gunk that was on the S315WS not quite two decades ago! This task did need to get repeated for a number of other parts as they were made ready to install and I'll not bother mentioning it again...this is a normal and common thing for new machinery so expect it when you get your new gear.

491493

Kudos to SCM/Minimax for including everything you need to get up and running other than the power cord and plug with the SC3C. That includes the tools to both assemble and maintain the machine. While I did choose to use a few alternatives from my collection, such as tee-handle hex wrenches and a 13mm socket, there really wasn't any need for much else other than a level/straight edge. And "everything" also means a few more things that I'll mention subsequently.

491494

The manual is typical of its ilk...better translated from the Italian than the last machine, but still somewhat terse. While I have the advantage of having done this before for the slightly larger machine I had in the old shop, it's still pretty easy. The one thing that was "off" with the instructions was the order of operations, IMHO, but no matter in the end. I installed the steel leading edge piece and wagon lock at the operator end first. Hint to anyone doing this...you have to put the wagon lock on at the same time you're slipping on the steel piece because the former is "captured" by the latter. If you think you can put the wagon lock on after the steel plate is fastened in...well...you can't. DAMHIKT! :o

491495 491496

[Jim Becker]

I added the small "outfeed" table next. This piece actually captures the blade shroud that has to be slid forward to gain access to the blade(s)/riving knife to change/adjust them. There are two 13mm bolts to hold it fast but also two small hex screws that are used to level it. That's important because of that shroud that is guided by this small table when it's moved as noted.

491497 491498

The larger "right side" table was next up. This supports crosscuts as well as the far right end of the rip fence system. Getting the two hex bolts seated is tricky due to limited clearance but a little patience makes it happen.

491500 491501

Next up was the fence rail. In retrospect, I probably should have installed the fence scale and rack first just because it would have been slightly easier, but it doesn't materially matter. Note to anyone buying these machines or their siblings...you must NOT change anything about the jam nuts on the three mounting bolts that attach to the cast iron table. These are pre-adjusted at the factory and you can really mess things up if you do putz around with them. I learned that the hard way with the older machine way back when and it took quite a bit of work to recover from it.

491502

I installed the outrigger next...this is actually easily removable for when it's not needed, but needs to be checked for level with the wagon for best results. I did have to file off a few burrs on the mounting bar that goes into the tee slot on the front of the wagon so it would slide in smoothly. That was the only "physical adjustment" I had to make on any parts.

491504 491506

[Jim Becker]

Next up was to make it actually into a saw. Saws need a blade. Well lookie here...it came with a very nice, Italian made, 300mm (~12") general purpose blade as well as a scoring blade. The latter was pre-installed at the factory.

491509

Um...it's sharp...

491510

This machine is a bit more open up front than the older S315WS was in the blade area. The safety shelf slides to the left and that provides full access and the 120mm dust collection connection to the blade shroud is a little better designed than on the older machine, IMHO. There's lots of room in there if you need to make adjustments, particularly to the riving knife which also serves to support the OEM blade guard if you choose to use it. (I'm not a fan of riving knife mounted blade guards and will likely do something "more better" later for that need)

491511 491512

SCM/Minimax supplies a round bar that gets captured in the arbor to act like a second wrench which is kinda handy when tightening or loosening things. There are two arbor flanges included with the machine...one has a build in bushing for 1" arbor blades and the other is flat for 5/8" arbor blades. The blade that came with the machine has a 1" arbor. My Forrest 12" WW-II 48T blades have 5/8" arbors so I'm covered either way. I like that a separate bushing isn't required when running tooling that was designed for a 1" arbor which is common with 12"/300mm blades. These two photos show the difference with the safety shield moved to the left for blade changes and to the right for normal operation. There is a microswitch that "knows" when things are closed and safe to operate.

491513 491514

[Jim Becker]

The last hurrah was giving that beast a tail. A quick run to the home center for 12' of appropriate code and a 30 amp twist lock and it was time to bring that thang to life.

The connection box is on the front/right end of the saw under the wagon (depending on where you are standing). Honestly, I don't particularly like that position because it potentially could get in the way of certain kinds of cutting, but the solution for that is to have a little more cord available and route it under the saw rather than directly parallel to the fence rail. It is what it is. The connection box has a nice sealed design so it's not going to allow dust, etc., in there once sealed up. Wiring is straight forward onto terminals and once the cord is installed, tightening up the connector on the bottom feed of the cable seals that up and putting the cover back on fully seals the box.

491515 491516 491517

And...IT'S ALIVE!!!

491518

It's a little louder than the S315WS was but I suspect that's at least partially because the scoring blade runs full time, unlike on the bigger machine that has a separate motor for scoring. That's not objectionable, however. The wagon is very smooth...just like I'm used to. And this machine comes with all the goodies...tools, blades (decent ones, too), the smaller miter bar in addition to the larger outrigger which is what I use 90% of the time for crosscutting, the extra support table for the wagon, an eccentric clamp for the wagon, etc. I'm very pleased so far including as a positive comparison to the larger machine I previously owned and used for many years. Other than the shorter stroke (my choice this time around) I expect to get exactly what I'm used to here with this machine. There are a few little minor adjustments I need to make in my copious free time, but otherwise, this sucker is ready to rock and roll.

491519

[John Kananis]

She's a beauty... this must be so exciting.

[Jeff Bartley]

Congrats Jim! Seeing how long the rip fence comes from the factory I really get why you cut the one on your first saw! Is the blade height adjusted in the same spot as the s315ws?

I set up one of the auto-adjust Kreg clamps for a second clamp and it works great. I’d still like pneumatic clamps but I also still don’t want to pay for those!

I’m stoked to see your shop coming to life!

[Jim Becker]

Jeff, funny, I was just commenting on the fence length in the MiniMax UG as someone was asking about a short fence. Since I never put the back of the fence beyond the back of the blade, cutting off a foot to use as a stop fence is a no-brainer to me. That thang is LONG! Blade height wheel is pretty much in the same place...main cabinet, under the fence rail. Scoring height is also in the same general area, but slightly different than on the S315WS which is understandable...it's an independent system on that bigger saw. Aside from a "few" pounds of weight and the separate scoring motor, this thing is pretty much "the same" as the bigger saw other than being short stroke and having a slightly "updated" look to the cabinet and graphics. (which sorta was done years ago)

Pneumatic clamps are a nice thing and for anyone repeatedly using clamping on the wagon for production work, they are essential. I don't work quickly, so the cam-clamps are fine.

I'm also excited to be moving toward getting everything moved and being up and running, even though a "yuge" amount of what gets done for awhile will be further refinements to the shop for storage, etc.

[Justin Rapp]

Jim,

That is one heck of a machine. Use it safely and now I am looking forward to seeing the rest of your shop come together.

Justin

[Jim OConnor]

Jim
rather than cutting the long fence, if you are primarily using the fence as a bump stop, have you considered making a short L Fence that would mount to the base in lieu of the factory fence? I’m not familiar with the MiniMax base, but it works extremely well on my Felder. And I still have my long fence for that extremely rare occasion that I need it.

[Jim Becker]

Jim
rather than cutting the long fence, if you are primarily using the fence as a bump stop, have you considered making a short L Fence that would mount to the base in lieu of the factory fence? I’m not familiar with the MiniMax base, but it works extremely well on my Felder. And I still have my long fence for that extremely rare occasion that I need it.
I'll be cutting it because it's too long for my purposes...by about a foot. I did this with my previous saw and it worked out "famously". As Jeff mentioned above (he now owns my previous machines), he understands why I cut that one down 'cause the OEM fence is WAY too long. Having the same profile (high/low) for the short fence is nice, too.

[Greg Quenneville]

I wish I could cut my Felder fence down too, but since I have a full combo it is also the jointer fence. I instead just mount a short scrap of 8020 type extrusion to my fence mounting device as a stop and sometimes just use it for ripping too.

[John Kananis]

I've not used a full fledged slider or in sure I'd get it but what's wrong with a long fence?

[Jeff Bartley]

I've not used a full fledged slider or in sure I'd get it but what's wrong with a long fence?

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the long fence, but when cut the long section is still plenty long enough and then you have the short section that is really handy.

[Jim Becker]

I've not used a full fledged slider or in sure I'd get it but what's wrong with a long fence?

It's just not needed and if, for some reason, you want or need to shift around and do a 'regular rip' using the fence, the too long fence hits you in the, um...well...you know... ;) I actually consider the "out of box too long fence" to be an asset because I can cut off a foot to use as a short fence for stop block purposes and still have more than plenty to use for regular ripping. :D

[John Kananis]

I see, thanks for the replies guys.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Jim, you have the best threads, fun to live vicariously through your adventures!

Ditto on the shorter fence, nice to be able to pull it back as a bump fence that stops just before the blade, without a bunch hanging off the front, or slide the same fence back a little more and use it as a full rip fence. I actually bought the long and short fences, but could have saved some $ if I would have used your method.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks, Steve...I try to "describe the experience" as best as I can. I had to chuckle the other day when I was ripping that half inch material for the person door "frame" using the rip fence since it's my custom to not have the back of the fence past the back of the blade, that sucker was really hanging out past the fence rail by "a mile". It reminded me of this thread and the fact I have not yet cut it down. It's not a priority.

------

Having a slider back in the shop is such a pleasure and using the PCS in the temporary gara-shop for a while really makes me appreciate just how much I prefer the slider over a cabinet saw. It's not about quality or anything like that. I'm simply just much more comfortable and "functional" with the slider. Subjective for sure, but for me, it's absolutely the right choice.

[will rose]

Hey Jim,
Happy Holidays!
Unbekownst by you, I have on your recommendation, filled my shop with Minimax/scm equipment. Just a couple days ago an sc4e showed up looking alot like your new girl! I see you have plopped that saw right in the middle of the shop which looks awesome! A couple of questions whose answers are right in your wheelhouse. Did your shop end up 24X36? I have the same foot print(less walls) and a stair hole in one front corner parallel to the short side. My shop is on the second floor. My 52 inch unisaw plus out feed was pushed right side to wall with jointer planer five feet from blade and five feet behind, fed from oposite direction. I was thinking about doing the same with the slider, but end of the non telescoped panel fence will be about an inch from the jointer. Dust ducting is under floor so the rearrange is tricky. There is a mortiser on the jointer as well. I have only had dreams of using a slider, so my vision no has no dimensions! I do not slice up sheet goods regularly, but when I do, i would be bummed to have to move the jointer.
492250492251492249

[Jim Becker]

Congrats on your new slider, Will! I would have loved to go with the SC4C, but for cost reasons as well as the fact that I rarely process long stuff, I opted for the short stroke machine. "In general", however, they are nearly the same machine overall.

Your J/P position is similar to what I had in the old shop. I'd love to do that again in the new shop, but until I can move things around (play "tetris") this week, I'll not really be sure where the exact location will be. But what I like about the arrangement is being able to bounce between the J/P and the slider since I prefer to straight-line on the slider instead of edge jointing. Specific to your question, you'd need to move that J/P farther toward the wall to be able to clear the outrigger...the distance determined by how far you need for crosscut of "big things". The mortiser does complicate things if it's off the back of the machine, unfortunately. Please be sure that your floor is engineered to handle the increased point load you are going to experience with the SC4C up there as it's considerably heavier than your cabinet saw.

My new shop building is indeed 24x36 "outside" dimension, so about 18" less in either dimension inside because of wall thickness.

BTW, that's a nice space that's reminiscent of "Jackman Works" on the 'Tube, but clearly larger. He's done some interesting things to work out storage with the sloped walls due to the upper floor consideration that you might find interesting if you're not already familiar with him and his shop.

[bob cohen]

Congratulation Jim, she’s a beauty! Good luck with the shop build!

[will rose]

The floor capacity is funny. When I built the building 27 years ago, it started as a 12x14 shed to house my business machines. Since I built it myself, the economies of scale snowballed. Materials were much cheaper then. So I figured woodshop, so I designed for 60 psf and l-480 deflection, but I had no idea I would be so infactuated with tool collecting.(note, economies of scale snowballing...) Now with multiple machines weighing in 800 to 1500 lbs, I decided to hire an engineer to confirm my folly. He concluded that the floor could definitely support the loads, But I should observe floor loading precautions. Then we discussed deflection, vibration and accuracy. The 23 foot span is clear below. I suggested some musings I had for increasing the beam strength of the I-joists. After some talk, we determined that stiffening the floor wouldn't hurt. Hard earned modifications have made the floor about 60 percent stiffer, and (possibly) fifty percent stronger. I am a bit worried that sag in the floor could perpetuate adjustments on the slider.(I am also very much stiffer than I have been in a long time)
That Jackman really put the organisation to it! I hadn't seen that, but the french cleats are a cool idea.
I remember seeing a pic of your 315 tucked snuggly under the stairs. Did you ever think of removing the right hand table and amputating the rip fence bar? I wonder how much a replacement is. Can you remind me why I would need 50 inches to the right when I have 104 to the left? I envision using that sliding table for just about everything. I'm pretty sure that was what I did in my dreams.

[Jim Becker]

In the old shop, I did indeed reduce the size of the right size table by 16"...there's a thread about that here somewhere, if I recall. I did not cut the fence rail, however, as that wasn't necessary because of that stairway setup. Reducing the table with a shop-made surface gave the space to push the whole machine laterally which made using the outrigger for full crosscuts of something 8' long possible without interfering with the J/P. When I sold the machine to Jeff Bartley, it was able to be fully restored since I didn't cut anything. I considered cutting down the new machine since the "bundle" comes with the longer capacity to the right, but I'm going to try and avoid that. It would be hugely expensive to replace it later and since the fence bar is dialed in at the factory before shipping, it would require a lot of work getting a replacement setup so it is also "dialed in". Please pay attention to that note in the manual to NOT change the three double-nutted studs that engage the cast iron table when you install your fence. You do so at your own peril if you choose to change them. Trust me...I made that mistake on the S315WS "back in the day" and it took a huge effort to fix my error. "Read The Fabulous Manual" really applies here. BTW, the assembly instructions in the manual have an odd order as I mentioned previously. Review them multiple times as you really need to study the diagrams since the English text is pretty terse. You'll have a few "oh, yea!" moments if you do it that way.

[Rich Konopka]

Firstly, congratulations on your new saw. Secondly, awesome job getting it unloaded and setup. And thirdly, would the foot print be similar to a sawstop with a sliding table? Can you provide any pricing ranges? Im curious as to how the price stacks up compared to a tricked out Sawstop. Thanks and Happy new year!!

[Kevin Jenness]

I'm surprised to see the distance between the blade and carriage - looks like 1/2" or more. All the sliders I have used have been more like 3/16". Is that common? The greater the distance, the greater the minimum width of workpiece that can be held on the sliding table. On the other hand the throat plate segment on the left of the blade will limit the offcut spears getting trapped between the fixed and sliding tables.

Does the tilt wheel handle fold flat or does it have to project beyond the wheel face?

I'm sure it's nice to get the slider up and running. They have so much more to offer than a cabinet saw, even a good one.

[Jim Becker]

Firstly, congratulations on your new saw. Secondly, awesome job getting it unloaded and setup. And thirdly, would the foot print be similar to a sawstop with a sliding table? Can you provide any pricing ranges? Im curious as to how the price stacks up compared to a tricked out Sawstop. Thanks and Happy new year!!

Footprint is similar to the SS with the SS sliding table. Cost is at least double. Weight is also a lot more.


I'm surprised to see the distance between the blade and carriage - looks like 1/2" or more. All the sliders I have used have been more like 3/16". Is that common? The greater the distance, the greater the minimum width of workpiece that can be held on the sliding table. On the other hand the throat plate segment on the left of the blade will limit the offcut spears getting trapped between the fixed and sliding tables.

The reason is that the machine is dado stack capable so that offset is necessary and is true for the North American versions of all these saws from SCM/MiniMax branded as MiniMax. Euro versions that do not support dado do not have to have the offset to accommodate a dado stack. Like I had for the S315WS previously, I'll be making a ZCI to further close up around the blade, but it's not a high priority right now...the list is long!

[Christopher Stahl]

Congrats Jim! I finally fired up my new SC4e and FS41e a couple weeks ago.

[Jim Becker]

Congrats Jim! I finally fired up my new SC4e and FS41e a couple weeks ago.

What a great combination! I hope you're enjoying them, Christopher. I should have the electric to the J/P in the new shop done today so I can have it available to "do stuff" as needed. I've already been using the SC3C for "doing stuff" via a long cord and having both up and running will be a good thing.

[Kevin Jenness]

The reason is that the machine is dado stack capable so that offset is necessary and is true for the North American versions of all these saws from SCM/MiniMax branded as MiniMax. Euro versions that do not support dado do not have to have the offset to accommodate a dado stack. Like I had for the S315WS previously, I'll be making a ZCI to further close up around the blade, but it's not a high priority right now...the list is long!

I see. My saw and others I have used that accommodate a dado stack have a removable spacer behind the arbor flange. Then there's the old Martin T75 with a crank to set the carriage farther away from the main table.

[Jim Becker]

It seems that SCM/Minimax chose to not go the spacer route. Any idea how Felder/Hammer handle this for their models that support "dado" capability? (I believe they have a specialized cutter)


I will say that I really like that they provide two outer arbor flanges; one with a built in bushing for use with 12" blades that have 1" bore and one that's flat for 5/8" bore blades. That's gotta be slightly more accurate than using a bushing for sure.

[Steve Wurster]

It seems that SCM/Minimax chose to not go the spacer route. Any idea how Felder/Hammer handle this for their models that support "dado" capability? (I believe they have a specialized cutter)

They do have a specialized cutter, more than one I think, but I have a Forrest Dado Master bored out to fit the Felder arbor with pin holes. For my Hammer K3 there is a “spacer” over the arbor that you remove in order to add the dado blades. And then you use a different flange and bolt setup on the outside as well. I’m not at the shop right now so I can’t take a picture.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks, Steve. I wasn't sure about the "how" it was implemented on the Hammer/Felder, but have seen the specialized cutters in action and despite their cost, they do a good job to my eyes. You need to come over and see the new shop in your copious free time, too. :)

[Steve Wurster]

Thanks, Steve. I wasn't sure about the "how" it was implemented on the Hammer/Felder, but have seen the specialized cutters in action and despite their cost, they do a good job to my eyes. You need to come over and see the new shop in your copious free time, too. :)

I took some pictures from my K3 to show how the dado setup works.

The first picture shows the standard single-blade setup, which uses a thin flange and shorter bolt. You can see that there isn't that much room on the arbor itself for a blade.

492775

The second picture shows the dado setup. The "spacer" is removed from the arbor, making more room for dado blades / specialized cutter (although this is a little hard to see the difference due to the lighting and it not being in focus). And then there's a thicker flange and longer bolt to fit through the flange. Oh, I guess you can't actually tell that the flanges are of different thickness here, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

492776

And, yes, Jim, I'll have to stop by and see the new shop and now tools / toys. I'll text you next week to see if you're available when I know I have time. I would have messaged you over the holidays to help volunteer to move things but my schedule was actually quite full with family-related things.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for those photos, Steve. Very helpful in understanding how "the other guys" do it. :) :D

My time is flexible, so it shouldn't be too hard to work out a visit that's convenient to you. No worries on the move...it went smoothly and quick with Dan, Helmut and Neil helping and the ground being frozen.