Moving Shop Machines in Containers

[sally ray]

Hi, I am moving my shop from southern CA to southern New Hampshire and would appreciate some advice!
I have 2 16’ Pack Rat containers that hold 6500 lbs each.

Planning on shipping the 24” Agazzani bandsaw on its back- obviously removing the blade for travel. Should I remove the table as well? Wheels?

Also looking into taking the wings off of the general 8” jointer and the general 15” planer, and removing the extension on the saw stop table saw if needed.

The container will be stored in a climate controlled warehouse until the shop in NH is finished.

Are there any other considerations in regards to packing and moving these machines?

Thanks so much for your time!

[Greg Quenneville]

I would remove the table. The trunnions are the weakest part of the saw, and if it topples in the container the force on the table will be through the trunnion. Wheels I can’t see a problem with. I would get a very stout board bolted through the base to prevent the saw from tipping in transit.

Properly braced container shipping seems to me to be the safest transport mode…no forklift demolition derby to contend with.

[Steve Eure]

I would make sure it is secured so as not to slide when it is loaded and unloaded on the truck. I've seen some of these containers loaded on trucks that slide the container up at a steep angle onto the bed and that would cause a sliding issue with heavy machines. If they use a crane of sorts, that may not be an issue. Do yu know if there are secure points inside each container for locking cargo?

[Erik Loza]

In no particular order:

-Coat every iron or steel metal surface that is not painted/powder-coated with something like CRC rust preventative. Your machinery will end up with some rust, no matter what you do, but try to mitigate that as best as possible.

-Strap or screw down the machines more securely than you think you ought to. I’ve seen improperly secured machines destroy themselves in trips across the state. You’re going across the country.

-On your bandsaw, agree with Greg: Remove the table and pack separately. Trunnions are the weak link on Agazzanis. If that part were to get damaged, you’d probably have to scrap the whole machine since spare parts aren’t available.

Good luck and safe travels.

Erik

[Lee Schierer]

In no particular order:

-Coat every iron or steel metal surface that is not painted/powder-coated with something like CRC rust preventative. Your machinery will end up with some rust, no matter what you do, but try to mitigate that as best as possible.

-Strap or screw down the machines more securely than you think you ought to. I’ve seen improperly secured machines destroy themselves in trips across the state. You’re going across the country.

-On your bandsaw, agree with Greg: Remove the table and pack separately. Trunnions are the weak link on Agazzanis. If that part were to get damaged, you’d probably have to scrap the whole machine since spare parts aren’t available.

Good luck and safe travels.

Erik

I fully agree with Erik. Gravity sometimes fails in the backs of commercial trucks. I would make sure that anything taller than it is wide or long gets tied down or attached to a large skid base. Anything delicate should be crated.

[Warren Lake]

watched a guy talking about damage when shipping high end cars last night. Not rare to have 10 - 25k in damage. Said good carriers at first became worse as he used them. He preferred owners to buy their cars and drive them home. Likely hard to make a living doing that but its no justification for all the damage done.

[Tyler Bancroft]

If I were moving something the size and mass of a 24" bandsaw, I'd probably contact the manufacturer to ask their recommendations for moving it.

[Richard Coers]

I made a major discovery at my last day job about shipping. Try to get a house moving company to move your machinery. I had a major project out of the Industrial Design Model Shop. We built a fully enclosed shipping crate, so the company sent a flat bed trailer. The suspension on a flat bed is set up much differently than the suspension of a moving van. A major piece in the display came loose going cross country, and destroyed the inside of the display. Looked like a huge rock inside a washing machine. Months of effort completely destroyed! The shipping crate was pristine on the outside and inside looked like a bomb had gone off. Major word of caution for you! I don't know if foam sheets would work, or if there are air bags are viable choice, but cushioning the load would really pay off!

[Scott T Smith]

In no particular order:

-Coat every iron or steel metal surface that is not painted/powder-coated with something like CRC rust preventative. Your machinery will end up with some rust, no matter what you do, but try to mitigate that as best as possible.

-Strap or screw down the machines more securely than you think you ought to. I’ve seen improperly secured machines destroy themselves in trips across the state. You’re going across the country.

-On your bandsaw, agree with Greg: Remove the table and pack separately. Trunnions are the weak link on Agazzanis. If that part were to get damaged, you’d probably have to scrap the whole machine since spare parts aren’t available.

Good luck and safe travels.

Erik

Excellent advice from Eric above. I'll add a couple of points. First, if it's a traditional shipping container you can bolt the equipment to the container floor with lag bolts. If not (or if the shipper objects), then I would suggest crating all of the equipment.

No matter how easy the transport company drives, there are a lot of rough roads encountered when crossing the USA and loose equipment in a container is a recipe for disaster.

You can also fabricate support braces around the bases of the equipment and off of the sides / roofs of the container to help keep the equipment in place. Crates built on pallets will allow easier unloading with a forklift and placing with pallet jack at your destination.

Regarding a rust preservative, LPS #3 is the best that I've come across. It's basically spray cosmoline.

[Warren Lake]

last machine moved in a 26 foot enclosed car trailer. Driver good but went too fast over rail way tracks. Trailer bounced like crazy on that and not good.

Its clear extra bracing is needed for some machines as there will be impact if things start bouncing. The big bandsaw I moved years ago table came off and the machine lay flat, not on its back but flat. Past owner mad as hell but it was the right choice for me and my choice after he was paid. Zero chance i was moving it as he wanted standing up. I didnt care if it worked for him it was not going to happen.

[Alex Zeller]

Just throwing this out as an option. Have you thought about selling your tools and buying new to replace them? The prices for used equipment are still really good. If your General tools are not General international they too could be impossible to repair. It could cost you more but you would have new tools and no worries.

[Warren Lake]

if they are general you wont need to repair them.

Oh other than the thickness planer all other machines used hard never had any issues

[Greg Quenneville]

Alex has a good point. None of those tools are irreplaceable and you could likely upgrade with what you save on shipping.

About ten years ago a friend and I bought a prototype machine shop in Singapore and shipped it all to Melbourne. We engaged a pro firm to spray and crate with lots of cribbing. But none of that was subjected to road travel. I have done that too with my heart in my mouth. Trucks sure don’t ride like cars.

[John K Jordan]

Not a shop machine but I moved something I didn’t want damaged: I moved a player piano in a trailer from PA to TN. To keep it from moving around on rough roard I built a padded support frame inside the trailer using 2x4s. The frame wasn’t fastened to the trailer walls or floor but it was braced on all 4 sides against the trailer walls. No damage, not even a scratch.

If moving a shipping container full of heavy equipment I might consider the same thing and build bracing while loading. If that was not practical I would probably make a custom pallet for each machine and strap/bolt each machine and any parts disassembled to the pallet, paying attention to the CG. I one bought a heavy cast iron Robland sliding table attachment for my PM66 and the guy shipping it across the country did that.

To know what to disassemble I think I might ask the mfgr how they ship or ask a dealer if I could watch them uncrate if they have one delivered. I had an 18” bandsaw shipped from the mfgr and it came in a tall wooden box bolted to a pallet for upright stability. The table had been removed from the trunion. In fact, all of my larger machines were shipped partially disassembled in custom plywood crates: PM cabinet saw, 8” PM jointer, lathe.

[Jim Becker]

Honesetly, using one of these self-packed "moving containers" to ship heavy machinery makes me blink. They are really designed for household goods, not heavy gear. Weight capacity isn't the issue. While the particular brand mentioned actually has all steel containers, I do not believe they are as beefy as "regular" shipping containers and may not have the kind of hold-downs that are really required for shipping machinery. I'd also still want to crate and brace the equipment before it goes in the moving container. The reason for that is what has already been brought up about the type of trailers being used to transport the moving containers cross-country...it's really important to ascertain if the flat bed trailers being employed have the air suspensions that are typical of actual moving vans/trailers employed for household moves and delicate machinery.

[Will Blick]

I agree with Jim here....
I used two packrat 16' containers to move household goods and some of my machines, 700-1000lbs each. I would never do it again. And I only moved them 400 miles. The walls of the pack rat are so flimsy, so is the floor. There is no solid places to strap to, remarkably. I assume u would get the same containers as I got last year. When the containers are lifted, they can tilt a lot, so be sure to balance as best as u can if you elect to go with Pack Rat. If the machines are valuable, and you really want them to arrive safely, crate them with a fork lift ready bottom, and have them delivered by common carrier. Like others have mentioned, if the cost of moving them is just too costly, consider selling them and re buying if possible. IIRC, Pack Rats insurance per container was minimal. Lots to consider here... good luck

[Ronald Blue]

I don't know what the used container market is like now but that might be a better option. Get a 20' and load and secure the machines and have it moved across country. If you can place it on your property even better. The advantage is being able to secure everything to it as you see fit. Bolt to the floor and brace off the walls. If you need the extra room get a 40'. All the other advice given is good info. You will never be sorry you went over board when packing and securing. To much will always be better than to little However when you open the doors and it looks like a bomb went off the sick feeling in the stomach will be hard to take.

[John K Jordan]

I don't know what the used container market is like now but that might be a better option. Get a 20' and load and secure the machines and have it moved across country. If you can place it on your property even better. The advantage is being able to secure everything to it as you see fit. Bolt to the floor and brace off the walls. If you need the extra room get a 40'. All the other advice given is good info. You will never be sorry you went over board when packing and securing. To much will always be better than to little However when you open the doors and it looks like a bomb went off the sick feeling in the stomach will be hard to take.

I bought one of those 10+ years ago. After adding ventilation I use it for storing hay.

If buying one with intentions of keeping it for long term use a bit of advice I got from several people (and from looking at one a friend had): get one made of aluminum instead of steel. If steel, try to install it in the open away from trees. If not possible, and even if so, clean any leaves off the top occasionally. If leave build up and hold moisture, the roof will rust and leak. I looked in one that a neighbor of a friend had put in her woods some years before - the roof had rusted through in multiple places and everything inside was destroyed. Those made from aluminum also have aluminum tops and don't have that problem. I found an 8x8x40' aluminum container for $1500.

All these containers dropped in price, at least around here, when Walmart quit renting them for Christmas layaways. The dealers suddenly had way too many. Don't know about now.

Another thing that can be done is construct a roof on top with shingles or metal roofing. Even fancier: put two side by side with an open space down the middle at least wide enough for a vehicle and build one roof over both - nearly instant low-cost building. Since the doors are on the end making for a long narrow space with access to the far end limited, people sometimes cut wide doors in the sides. I've seen pictures where people have turned these into a shop.

The floors on these are like a semi-trailer - strong enough to support a fork lift carrying a heavy load. (BTW, 16 years ago I also bought an 8x9x45 aluminum semi-trailer, flat aluminum roof, with the wheels removed. This also makes a great storage building if you have the space. It doesn't have the lifting lugs of a shipping container.

I grade a spot, compact the soil, put down gravel, and set the container on 6x6 PT posts laid flat and leveled. BTW, I load hay into the back of the container by driving a tractor inside with a pallet carrying 12 bales at a time then stack by hand. I can fit over 250 square bales inside, stacked 6 high. (a good workout)

484888

JKJ

[Will Blick]

I think Rons suggestion is even better...
However, buying containers last year was nearly impossible, demand was through the roof.
I sold a 16ft container with a garage door on end (so could not use it for shipping) for $2800..
I put an ad on CList and got over a 100 responses, with many people willing to zelle money in full, just by the ad to secure it till they could pick it up. Was blown away... maybe the market has changed since a year ago.
Renting a container might be a good option. Maybe companies rent and move the containers, that would be ideal. Those things are tanks. PackRat has max weight IIRC of only 6k lbs, and even that seemed like a lot when I experienced their shotty build. I should have investigated the container option. Had I known how flimsy the PackRat containers are, I would have.
The one PLUS of the PackRat containers, they do have doors, vs. a garage door which would be too risky with heavy machinery.

[Bill Dufour]

If it will become a building pay a little extra and get an insulated one.
Bill D

[Mark e Kessler]

If it hasn’t been mentioned tie down the upper wheel on the bandsaw, a lot of them if not all just float and without a blade on could move up and down

[sally ray]

Thanks John,
Was the player piano's padded support frame padded on under or over the 2x4s? So like a pallet but squeezed between the inside walls?

[sally ray]

Thanks Greg! I plan on wedging everything with super thick styrofoam and bracing everything

[sally ray]

Thank you for this, Erik! I'll have to look up CRC, but I have used T9 in the past. I will now plan on making a separate crate for the bandsaw table!

[sally ray]

Thank you Lee! I plan on taking the tall bandsaw off the mobile base ( with a forklift ) and laying on its spine on a pallet. Wish me luck :-)

[sally ray]

Warren- I believe it! I'm shopping for some helpers that normally move commercial equipment, because I can only do so much alone. Hopefully I can find some good ones to help.

[sally ray]

Tyler- great idea. I might give Laguna a call since I think they bought Aggazani. Mine was one of the last ones made in Italy, but the newer productions one can't be that different?

[sally ray]

Richard, so sorry to hear that! I believe that Pack Rats normally does residential moves, so it won't be on a flat bed. I will cushion it with everything possible!

[sally ray]

Thanks Scott! I will definitely look up LPS #3. plan to go crazy with bolts and bracing. wish me good luck!!

[sally ray]

Thanks Warren, did the table get damaged and was it able to be fixed?

[sally ray]

Thanks Alex- yes, I've done the numbers over and over! While it would be SO MUCH easier to just sell and re-buy, prices in LA are going for literal pennies, and the cost to replace with like machines is astronomical! The Generals are all International .

[sally ray]

Thanks Jim, my worry too. I've been going back and forth and exploring different options for months! I just emailed them to see if they can tell me about the trailer suspensions. I think they normally move household stuff, so maybe? I'm committed now, so I have to bite down on the bullet and brace away!

[sally ray]

Thanks Will- did any of your machines take damage? Unfortunately I read this right after my refund date passed :-0. So am going to have to suck it up and brace, pallet and cushion away. Thanks for the good luck!

[sally ray]

Thanks Ronald, I did look into this and it was crazy expensive! Worst case, if the containers show up and they are as flimsy as Will says I may have to eat the deposit and fabricate a plan B

[Ronald Blue]

Sounds like you are going to be busy building pallets, bracing, and loading the containers. Good luck and keep up posted on how it all goes.

[John K Jordan]

Thanks John,
Was the player piano's padded support frame padded on under or over the 2x4s? So like a pallet but squeezed between the inside walls?

Yes, braced between the walls, front and back, ceiling. Many years ago I learned the hard way what unchecked vibration can do to things in a cross country move. Fortunately the damage from that experience was cosmetic.

I put the piano in the middle of the covered trailer. I made a 2x4 frame in contact all the way around, high and low on the piano with padding against piano case. I then added triangular bracing that extended to the inside surfaces of the trailer to prevent it from moving. Hauled it 500 miles to TN, arrived on good condition.

The rest of the story: getting a heavy player piano down the steps to the back of the house then thru a picture window was a challenge that required some creativity. Then the real work started - disassembling and restoring the entire player movement plus new strings, hammers, felt, etc. 40 years later it still works well, still in the family at a son’s house in SC. This piano was special to me, the one my siblings and I practiced and played as kids in PA.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I built a shop for a guy who immigrated from Portland OR to Rocheport MO. The image of his arrival in MO will stick with me. A 24 foot single axle U Haul truck filled with cast iron wood working equipment arriving intact was a miracle. Talk about a low rider there was no space in the suspension what so ever. How the tires held I will never know. That 4 ton truck had 10 tons in it.

[Alex Zeller]

I went to the dump yesterday and a guy who was leaving was busy strapping his empty garbage can to his trailer. I spent about 5 minutes doing so. I had enough time to empty all my stuff and was leaving right behind him. I watched him grab the can and shake it every direction possible. It took less than 2 miles before the can found a way to come loose.

I hope everything works out for you Sally. Like others have said, make sure you secure your tools every way possible. I would remove the bandsaw's table. Hopefully with lots of bracing they will make the trip without issue.

[Will Blick]

Hi Sally, sorry for late response, did u load the machines?
For the benefit of others who read this thread through the years...
Remarkably my machines made it safe, but it was a short trip, AND, I was quite clever with ways to block and secure the machines, lots of custom built items, as I mentioned the wall supports are so flimsy, u can flex them out a lot just with light pulls. The other issue is the tilt when these containers are lifted.... a 1k lb machine can break loose and roll.... fortunately, the doors are decent, dual, swing open. The sides are thin sheet metal.
The other issues are.... the height of the container off the ground... be prepared for a 6" lip u must encounter, so build some ramps if your machines are on wheels. I blew a few wheels out in this process, build long ramps. The other major issue is where the container sits. If you have flat land, u are fine. I planted mine on a 7% slopped driveway, and we had to build up the back end with 4 4x4's to get the unit closer to level...that was the max they would allow. It still had a huge tilt down when machines entered. And if you ever felt a 1k lb machine roll down hill, u better have a system (winch) or a lots of strong guys to manage placement.
I love the post about using a truck that has air ride shocks, vs. a typical flat bed... I wonder if typical house movers will take these machines as they usually do not have rigging to handle loads like this, unless of course, they are smaller machines, <400 lbs type.
pls update us!