Prices Have Gone Crazy

[Jim Koepke]

Was looking at one of my regular search notifications (Stanley #4) even though two have been acquired recently. Just looking can be fun.

It can be real strange when something like this pops in:

484615

Makes me wonder how much a full set of special cutters without boxes is worth.

It brings to mind a set of special cutters for the Stanley #55 (about twice as many cutters as the #45 set) listed on ebay many years ago with a Buy It Now price of around $1500. The wife was asleep and it didn't seem wise to wake her to convince her this was something worth buying. When she woke up the next morning the listing was brought up to show her what was wanted. It had already sold in the middle of the night.

jtk

[lawrence munninghoff]

I was looking at a LN #51. It jumped in price from $500 to $600 and now $650.

[Jim Koepke]

I was looking at a LN #51. It jumped in price from $500 to $600 and now $650.

Just one of my reasons for purchasing the Veritas version was the lower price. It is now about $250 lower.

After trying the LN #51 at a tool event the ease with which it cut through end grain convinced me it was better than my Low Angle Jack plane, an LN #62. The shooting planes were still the gleam in some engineers eyes at the time it was purchased.

With a bit of research it was determined the Veritas Shooting Plane has a lower angle of attack. For me this was important since my right shoulder was messed up in a cycling accident.

At the time a left hand version was purchased to take the stress off of my right shoulder and there are no regrets.

The lower the angle of attack the less work needed. Also the better finish left on the end grain.

jtk

[Richard Coers]

I'm having trouble with all these, I can't believe the price posts. Should I just not read them so gnashing of teeth and tears can be shed? I was under the impression that most people on here were near or beyond retirement age. Am I wrong? Don't you older guys remember 14% mortgage interest rates? Other recessions we have lived through? 1970, 1973-75, 1980-82, 1990-91, and 2008-09. In the 1980-82, people were boarding up their houses around here and heading to Florida looking for work. I think we have it pretty darned good yet. At least I can get gas any time of day unlike the hour long lines or no gas available signs of the 73-75 recession. https://www.thebalance.com/the-history-of-recessions-in-the-united-states-3306011

[Derek Cohen]

I was looking at a LN #51. It jumped in price from $500 to $600 and now $650.

It is $1300 AUD in Australia.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Lanciani]

It is $1300 AUD in Australia.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Well the exchange rate is 1.45 today so that gets you to 942.5 AUD. Add shipping (I honestly have no clue, +/- $100??) Someone along the way is making a bit extra for the bother...

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Just one of my reasons for purchasing the Veritas version was the lower price. It is now about $250 lower.
jtk

Almost all my planes are LN, but that’s exactly why I purchased the RH version. At first I was disappointed - I had trouble fine tuning the adjustments, especially the side screws that capture the blade. However, once I figured out the exact seating for the blade and adjusted the screws accordingly, I couldn’t be happier. It cuts beautifully.

[Stew Denton]

I think part of the reason is that an overwhelming percentage of virtually all plane parts that I have looked at are being sold by a single seller. That sellers prices are extremely high, in my opinion, which seems similar to a monopoly situation. Consequently the other sellers see those listings, and list their prices accordingly. I have bought from that seller, and he does a good job of shipping, etc., but in my opinion his prices are way too high.

I suspect that he buys most of the "parts" planes, since he can sell all of the parts, whereas most of us just need one part. Consequently he can outbid most of us. Thus, it is often cheaper to buy the needed part from him even if we think the price is too high.

As a result, the sellers of the complete planes list the planes at much higher prices than they were just a very few years ago.

Again, this is my guess, just a guess on my part, nothing more.

Stew

[Peter Schussheim]

Lie-Nielsen increased their prices significantly over the past year. It's frustrating since they don't make any attempt to inform customers of pending increases or even after an increase goes into effect. Additionally, the percentage increase is all over the place depending on the tool; for example, I believe the large shoulder plane is up 40% from a year ago.

[Jim Koepke]

It isn't often we hear a corporation or merchant informing the public about coming price increases other than in a broad sense.

It could cause panic buying. Down line retailers might even try and buy as much as possible at the lower price to cash in on the increase.

On the other hand, market watchers often see and share indicators of pricing trends.

One of the people on a TV program I used to watch often said, "the time to buy is when you see it." It might not be available later.

My main problem with that has not having the money at the time it was seen.

Hopefully we are at the end of a major world wide economic disruption and things will settle. Unfortunately we cannot see the future and things could be bumpy for a while longer.

jtk

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Lie-Nielsen increased their prices significantly over the past year. It's frustrating since they don't make any attempt to inform customers of pending increases or even after an increase goes into effect. Additionally, the percentage increase is all over the place depending on the tool; for example, I believe the large shoulder plane is up 40% from a year ago.

I have been a loyal customer of Lie Nielsen for more than 20 years and I can vouch for the fact that they didn’t increase prices for many of those years. They virtually shutdown for almost a year during Covid, selling only what they had remaining in stock. Their supplies of raw materials were severely affected with a corresponding increase in their cost once they were again available. They have discontinued certain tools that were evidently not selling to the point of profitability and increased the prices on others to correspond with the current cost to produce them. I don’t begrudge the price increases one bit. I’m just glad they survived the Covid economic crisis; sadly the same cannot be said for some other manufacturers of high quality tools.

[Phil Gaudio]

I have been a loyal customer of Lie Nielsen for more than 20 years and I can vouch for the fact that they didn’t increase prices for many of those years. They virtually shutdown for almost a year during Covid, selling only what they had remaining in stock. Their supplies of raw materials were severely affected with a corresponding increase in their cost once they were again available. They have discontinued certain tools that were evidently not selling to the point of profitability and increased the prices on others to correspond with the current cost to produce them. I don’t begrudge the price increases one bit. I’m just glad they survived the Covid economic crisis; sadly the same cannot be said for some other manufacturers of high quality tools.

Hear, Hear!

[Patrick McCarthy]

I have been a loyal customer of Lie Nielsen for more than 20 years and I can vouch for the fact that they didn’t increase prices for many of those years. They virtually shutdown for almost a year during Covid, selling only what they had remaining in stock. Their supplies of raw materials were severely affected with a corresponding increase in their cost once they were again available. They have discontinued certain tools that were evidently not selling to the point of profitability and increased the prices on others to correspond with the current cost to produce them. I don’t begrudge the price increases one bit. I’m just glad they survived the Covid economic crisis; sadly the same cannot be said for some other manufacturers of high quality tools.

Got to agree.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

Stephen, I can understand the issue; it isn’t just lie-Nielsen with crazy rationalizations.
But there’s ways to look at the problem.
For example, I live within 8 km of my local Lee Valley store. Normally I order tools from there.
I’m waiting on a custom #4 body. Everything else is in stock. When I called customer service, part of the discussion was that because of the crazy supply chain systems, pre-existing orders will not see a price increase at delivery.
That leads me to believe that hikes are coming.
My recall is that Lee Valley regularly adjusts prices but then Canadian materials are much more influenced by currency fluctuations.
The problem I see, is that it’s inevitable that prices will rise. Have to. We, as so many “age experienced” people often “remember when”. The effect can be a mental earthquake.
I sold off 3 hand planes to afford the Custom #4. I got almost full purchase price for them, and I don’t feel I ripped off any buyers.
Many years ago, here in this site, people were complaining about the increasing cost of tools, and especially during Covid-19.
Thing will settle down soon, but rationalizing production and increasing new tool costs are going to be with us for a long time.

[Keegan Shields]

I’m already starting to see people dumping their COVID woodworking tool purchases. Couple that with consumers pulling back on discretionary spending and all those COVID delayed large tool orders finally being delivered and I think we will see used prices in larger tools come down rapidly in the next 12 months. Maybe even a used tool glut.

Not sure what will happen to the hand tool market but probably something similar. Keep in mind that national unemployment is below pre-COVID levels, so it’s possible that we won’t see as steep of a decline in demand as expected in a normal recession.

[Jake Hillestad]

I just can't spend the mental bandwidth worrying about price increases on tools anymore. They've never been 'cheap' unless you were junk shop prowling two decades ago or better. Either I can afford it and I want it bad enough to pay, or I can't. About that simple anymore.

Personally in a world where McDonalds is paying anyone with a pulse $18+ an hour to make you a $1.29 cheeseburger I'm not sure how Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen (any tool maker) can afford to sell for what they do now....

[Bob Jones 5443]

mjd gets around. He buys vintage tools from a wide catchment area. His descriptions of wear and age are truthful and his prices have always been on the high side, although not outrageous. I got my Bailey Type 15 No. 5-1/2 from him and it’s a reliably excellent tool. The price was maybe a few dollars more than some others asked on eBay at the time (2019), but fair. He’s savvy enough to price to the market, so somebody is bound to buy those cutters at that price.

In the bigger picture, everything hobby-related went up in the past two years. I’m on an acoustic guitar forum and some of those price hikes are breathtaking. But as someone here pointed out, the shut-in enthusiasts are emerging from the house and discovering their zeal for the hobby is waning, and recently there is a surge of newish, used high-end guitars for sale. I’m expecting that to happen with quality tools as well.

I’d be interested to hear what Tom L-N or Rob Lee think about this.

[Jim Koepke]

mjd gets around. He buys vintage tools from a wide catchment area. His descriptions of wear and age are truthful and his prices have always been on the high side, although not outrageous. I got my Bailey Type 15 No. 5-1/2 from him and it’s a reliably excellent tool. The price was maybe a few dollars more than some others asked on eBay at the time (2019), but fair. He’s savvy enough to price to the market, so somebody is bound to buy those cutters at that price.

Maybe I was the exception. Purchased a blade for a Stanley #46 a couple of years ago. Listed as ready to go. It was pitted and needed a lot of work.

My email never received a reply.

It seems a lot of the listings are related to all the parts of the same plane.

Years ago it was clear to me the rosewood tote & knob from most Stanley planes would sell for more than a complete plane. Blades & chip breakers also entered that realm at times. I used to look for broken planes for the parts.

A few of the wrecks were just sellers with bad camera or listing skills.

Maybe if the "shut-in enthusiasts" all decide to sell at the same time prices will come back down.

jtk

[Bob Jones 5443]

Wow. Sorry to hear about that, Jim. I got lucky, I guess. Yes, come to think of it, you do see a lot of very expensive parts. Going after restorers looking for a special part, maybe?

[Stew Denton]

Jim,

I hope you are right and the prices will come down. I have a plane or two that need parts, and tried to buy a parts plane with a cracked part or two, and most of the back half of the plane was broken off and missing. When the bidding came to more than the cost of a complete plane of the same type, and you could buy a complete plane in better condition I quit bidding.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

[edited]
I have a plane or two that need parts, and tried to buy a parts plane with a cracked part or two, and most of the back half of the plane was broken off and missing.

Stew, what parts do you need?

You might consider asking here. Many here have spare parts they might be willing to let go reasonably. A WTB ad in the SMC Classifieds might also find what you need.

jtk

[Stew Denton]

Jim,

Thanks for the idea, as I had not thought about that. I may do just that at a later date.

I do know, however, that I am looking for the body and knob for a Stanley 608 flat side. I have no intention to pay the almost $260 or so that the MJD folks wanted for those two parts. (The body may be already sold, I am not sure...at those prices no point in following it on the auction site.)

Currently I know some other parts, but almost all of the planes are still boxed up from our move, and under a ton of other boxes, so I am not sure exactly what else I need. I do have a Stanley 608 round side body, and some of it's other parts, that I either want to find most of the other parts for, or to trade toward a 608 Flat side body. Unfortunately both planes parts are boxed up somewhere in the back room under boxes of kitchen stuff and boxes of my tools.

The remodel has been a disaster, and is now at least 3 to 4 months behind schedule do to 6 to 8 week delivery times for cabinets, counter tops, windows, etc., and repeated foul ups by suppliers.

Hope things are going better for you.

Thanks and regards,

Stew