Paving the driveway

[John K Jordan]

After waiting a month for a dry spell we finally got the driveway paved yesterday. Sure creates a different look at the farm. I left some unpaved for now where I need to move heavy trucks and equipment (and because paving is not inexpensive...) My Lovely Bride was especially interested in getting the circle drive and parking areas near the house paved.

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They built it all on top of existing gravel drives that have been in use and compacted from 15 to 40 years.

JKJ

[Thomas Wilson]

I am envious. My gravel driveway at the shop is washing into the street. I asked the general contractor for pricing information for asphalt and concrete. Gonna be a heart stopper.

[Jim Koepke]

Candy wants to get gravel on our driveway.

I don't know how to let her know about gravel having a tendency to fly away as cars drive over it.

jtk

[Jim Becker]

You're going to enjoy that, John. I did the same at the old property in 2018....400' of driveway and parking area. It was a game-changer in multiple ways, but one that was particularly great is that the issue of small stones getting caught in shoe tread and then scratching the wide pine floors pretty much went away. It was far easier to clear when there was a rare appearance of that white stuff and felt much better to drive on year-round.

We have paving here at the new place, but it's in poor condition. I plan on getting it re-done once the shop building project is complete and I restock the money coffers a little.

[Tom M King]

That's going to be nice!

[Dick Strauss]

Good for you guys! You're going to enjoy it when it rains. You'll actually have a place to step that shouldn't be too muddy. Even with gravel, it always seems there are muddy patches after it rains.

[Keith Pitman]

We paved our driveway two years ago. It does indeed improve the look of the property and I don’t have to worry as much about gullies forming during the summer monsoon season. We were fortunate that petroleum prices were lower two years ago which resulted in a lower project cost.

[Bill Dufour]

It is interesting to me that the Mansion owned by a paving contractor and quarry owner had a gravel driveway. House was built around 1922 in the city next to Berkeley. Built on ten acres so not real dense when it was built. AFAIK it is still gravel. His brother's house ,on another adjoining ten acres, was turned into a monastery after his brother died.
The house and grounds were donated to the University where the Berkeley chancellor lived for decades. It fell into disrepair and needs two million dollars to fix it up or ten million to bring it up to modern standards. Instead they rent a smaller house for 10,000 a month ten miles away from the University.
Bill D.

[Mel Fulks]

We have lived in current house about 30 years . Driveway was mainly dirt ,with a lot of rocks ,not gravel. Over the last 5 years I’ve
“reclaimed “ the rocks ,and moved the dirt to new exciting assignments. The rocks are cleaned,,, yes!, washed and moved to sloped ground
on comfy double layers of land-scape cloth and 5 mil plastic. Good dug out , sloped bed will make water run off guickly.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I am envious. My gravel driveway at the shop is washing into the street. I asked the general contractor for pricing information for asphalt and concrete. Gonna be a heart stopper.

We bought a rental with a horrible half dirt/half asphalt - all messed up driveway and had it paved w/concrete for $7500.
We priced gravel for another rental since that one needed new gravel badly. They wanted $3500 for the gravel alone!
We just bit the bullet and had concrete instead of new gravel. That was five years ago.

We have an estimate for concrete for the house we're building now. It's roughly the same square footage as the $7500 one. The estimate is $17,000.

[Jim Becker]

Concrete for driveways isn't a popular choice around here for whatever reason. Asphalt paving and various types of gravel are what you see; the latter is more prevalent outside of town. More and more rural driveways are paved at this point, probably due to shifts in demographics over the years to a more suburban mindset.

[Brian Elfert]

Asphalt is generally less expensive which is why many choose asphalt over concrete. In areas with snow and ice the black color absorbs the sunlight and heats up faster to that snow and ice in the winter. I would rather have concrete if I had the money. I can't imagine what 400 feet of asphalt driveway would cost. I got a price to pave the rest of my driveway when oil prices were lower around 2018 and it was $14,000!

[Kev Williams]

In all my years I've only seen anyone do this once, when I was like 8 years old-- A family had a new house built and moved in a couple of doors away. The owner had an asphalt driveway put in. Afterward, he bought several bags of portland cement, and began shoveling piles of it onto the asphalt, and everyone joined in with brooms to spread the cement powder around. Didn't take too long, the driveway was now similar looking to concrete, and all the asphalt smell was gone. Not sure if he ever had to repeat the process but I lived next door for about 6 more years before we moved and I don't remember them ever doing any touch-up. Always thought that was a neat thing to do...

[John K Jordan]

... I would rather have concrete if I had the money. I can't imagine what 400 feet of asphalt driveway would cost. I got a price to pave the rest of my driveway when oil prices were lower around 2018 and it was $14,000!

I almost went with concrete when we started to do this a few years ago. One problem I found is any concrete contractor I found planned to be very skimpy on the ground prep and amount/placement of rebar. As a former concrete inspector this was not acceptable. If not done "right" cracking and deterioration are almost assured, especially in some climates. I planned to buy and install all the rebar myself. When we finally pulled the trigger we chose the asphalt partly because of the cost and also since we are now in our 70s we'll may be gone from here before the expected lifetime of asphalt is up.

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400' of asphalt? Our driveway is probably well over four times that and the quotes I got were close to $50,000 for the entire drive. We chose to maybe 400' at the security gate entrance, down a slope that often required dressing after some good rain, and well into the woods. Gravel from there, through the woods, and up a slope past the horses and towards the house. Then paving from the garden to the house, around the circle drive, two wide areas for parking (space for up to 6 vehicles), and a "spur" towards the shop/barn will do for now. I'd have to add up the distance/area but the paving we had done just now was pushing $27k. The other estimates we got were higher and from our research, no obvious difference in quality or reputation. Be sure to check around.

In a few years when we save up enough money we'll probably do the part in the middle. What's installed now is "residential" grade - I'll do part of the remaining section with a much heavier-duty commercial grade to hold up to the dirt-moving equipment I have, the big trailers, and the occasional dump truck with 20+ tons of gravel. I have an alternate entrance to the farm where I bring in heavy things.

JKJ

[Tom M King]

I figured it must be pretty expensive these days. I haven't had any paving done since 2001. I built a little 9 lot development that included a 1/4 mile state spec road for access. It was two lane, 24' wide, and the paving cost me $10,000 then. It was done by the main crew that contracts all the work for the State and County around here. I forget how thick they laid the asphalt, but I know it was something over 2 inches.

I ended up selling the whole development a few years later, and the state has since taken the road over, but I haven't been back in there for years.

[Jim Becker]

I can't imagine what 400 feet of asphalt driveway would cost. I got a price to pave the rest of my driveway when oil prices were lower around 2018 and it was $14,000!

It was done in 2018 and the cost was about $11K total. 'Was only going to do part originally, but the company cut me a big break when I agreed to do the whole thing. They will get my business here when I renew the driveway after all my building construction is done.

[Dick Strauss]

Slightly OT - property tax assessors used to use a valuation for homes with a paved driveway that was 20-40% higher for some reason. So, many people left their driveway unpaved to lower their property taxes.

[Jerome Stanek]

Where I live if you have a concrete drive all the way to the road you are assest taxes but if it stops 20 ft and then blacktop you aren't. If you have a full aspgalt you don't pay taxes on it

[Lawrence Duckworth]

:D slightly OT
The thing I've always liked about a newly paved asphalt road is there is still enough oil in it to do a huge Burn Out! The smell of burning rubber and oil is what we motor heads likes to huff.....

back in the day all the kool kids would huff may-j-wanna and airplane glue....us motor heads would stand behind the car and huff the burn-out :)

congratulation on the new driveway!

[Brian Elfert]

Some states have screwy property tax rules. In Minnesota we simply pay based on estimated market value minus a homestead exemption. No worries about what type of driveway, number of bedrooms, and all the other silly things that affect property taxes in other states.

[John K Jordan]

Slightly OT - property tax assessors used to use a valuation for homes with a paved driveway that was 20-40% higher for some reason. So, many people left their driveway unpaved to lower their property taxes.

Every property on our dead-end rural road had a paved driveway except for ours, the only farm. We’ll see if they increase the taxes. They did once and I contested it and they revised the assessment. The taxes didn’t increase when I added the new driveway, electric security gate, fencing, shop, other buildings, and major remodeling.

We are on the county forestry greenbelt program which cuts property taxes in about 1/2 so maybe that makes a difference. With a registered farm there’s also no sales tax for anything related to ag or forestry, including big equipment, which helps. And by country law no inspections or permits are required on ag property. On top of that the gov has paid me cash for certain improvements. We’ll see.

I’m not worried. If it get too expensive or too much work for aging retirees i could probably sell and buy a house on the lake or in the mountains. There are always people looking for a place with good horse facilities, especially one 8 minutes from grocery, drug stores, autoparts, gas stations, farm store. Maybe having a 24x62’ shop with heat and air would sweeten the deal for a prospective buyer.

[Tom M King]

The State has repaved our "driveway" several times since I let them take it over in 1986. It's a mile long, and runs about through the middle of our property. It goes to about 50 waterfront homes on the end, and another fifty down that road you see to the left. We have always called it our driveway from where it turns off River Road. There is almost no traffic on it. More people walk on it for exercise than cars travel it.

Little gravel strip to the right is to our mailbox. There is about 100' of gravel real driveway to the house, but it's bordered by some really large Oak trees, and I'm sure their roots would heave any pavement up every few years.

[Jim Koepke]

I forget how thick they laid the asphalt, but I know it was something over 2 inches.

Every jurisdiction; township, city, county or state may have different specifications. In the area where I used to reside the specification for asphalt on most through roads was 4" thick as measured by the width of a common 2X4.

jtk

[John K Jordan]

… included a 1/4 mile state spec road for access. … I forget how thick they laid the asphalt, but I know it was something over 2 inches.
…

I read that the prep under the asphalt was more important than the top coat of asphalt. Our contractor put 2” of asphalt over 2” of “pug” which was compacted over the existing gravel drive compacted by driving vehicles for 40 years and heavy trucks and equipment for longer than a dozen years in places. They told me a commercial installation uses different and thicker base material with the same top coat as the residential. Apparently putting in a new road over soil requires different prep.

I’ve done a lot of and enjoy the digging and shaping but never want to do any asphalt paving.

[Ronald Blue]

I never really considered asphalt because it isn't maintenance free. I had gravel before we did this a couple months ago. No it wasn't cheap. It is SO nice now though and no more plowing gravel into the grass either with snow removal. Yours looks great John.

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[Brian Elfert]

I never do any maintenance on my asphalt driveway. All the sealer in a can really does is make the asphalt look blacker. It really doesn't do much to prolong the life of the asphalt. You need to a hire a company that installs a true sealer with a big machine if you want to extend the life of the driveway. One local company here does the driveway sealcoating, but with inflation and cost of oil they charge around $2,000.

My city requires homeowners to have their driveway paved if they pull a building permit other than basic stuff like siding or roofing. The city wants paved driveways so the edge of the street isn't undermined where a dirt/gravel driveway meets the street. I know from experience the city will compromise and not require the entire length to be paved if the driveway is long. I really wish I would have spent the extra $6,000 or so to do the whole driveway when I had the first 100 feet paved. The problem was I really didn't have the $6,000 and would have had to cut something else from my remodel budget to pay for it. It would probably cost double today eight years later.

[John K Jordan]

I... I really wish I would have spent the extra $6,000 or so to do the whole driveway when I had the first 100 feet paved. The problem was I really didn't have the $6,000 and would have had to cut something else from my remodel budget to pay for it. It would probably cost double today eight years later.

I mentioned we had a few 100 ft at the entrance and the circle drive at the house paved, dropped the middle for the cost. However, on her way out this morning the CEO told me this morning she might want the rest done sooner or later. Maybe have to skimp in foreign travel or something. Rats, and I was just about to buy a grapple for the tracked skid steer...

JKJ

[Ronald Blue]

The bottom line you're just making my point. Asphalt will need maintenance. Driveways will never be prepped and prepared at the level that a state or federal highway will be. So 2 in of asphalt is going to deteriorate over time. My concrete driveway will outlast me.

[Tom M King]

I read that the prep under the asphalt was more important than the top coat of asphalt. Our contractor put 2” of asphalt over 2” of “pug” which was compacted over the existing gravel drive compacted by driving vehicles for 40 years and heavy trucks and equipment for longer than a dozen years in places. They told me a commercial installation uses different and thicker base material with the same top coat as the residential. Apparently putting in a new road over soil requires different prep.

I’ve done a lot of and enjoy the digging and shaping but never want to do any asphalt paving.

The requirements were minimum of 8" of Road Base (crusher run). It was a clean cut down to red clay subsoil with no fill dirt. I bought two dumptrucks, hired retired log truck drivers, and did the spreading with my tractors. I sold the dump trucks for what I paid for them when we finished the job. The nearest rock quarry is a little less than 20 miles away. Stone was less than half the price that it is now.

The paving crew cut test holes with a state inspector watching them after they paved it. I didn't pay attention to the details because I knew the paving contractor, and trusted him. Both his girls were in our US Pony Club based out of our farm at the time.

[Jim Becker]

Looks very nice, Ron! (Just be careful about ice melt products as they can damage concrete as you likely already know)

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I'm with Brian around "sealers" on asphalt.

[Ronald Blue]

Looks very nice, Ron! (Just be careful about ice melt products as they can damage concrete as you likely already know)

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I'm with Brian around "sealers" on asphalt.

Yes, salt and many chemical ice melt products can damage the concrete. They did a great job on it including the transition to the street. Melting off with the suns power usually works well even on concrete. About 130 yards of concrete total. We held off until I retired as my service truck was pushing 30,000 lbs and why risk damaging the concrete. It's about 2 months old now.

[Jim Becker]

It really is a magnificent driveway, Ronald!!

[Larry Frank]

The ice melt products subject is interesting. My front sidewalk curves downhill and I use ice melt stuff on it routinely for 40 years and no problems. I use pet safe on part of it and regular on the rest. Part of my driveway is concrete and use salt only infrequently but have some damage. It appears to me that some concrete is less vulnerable to the salt products.

The rest of my driveway is blacktop and lasted 16 years. I had it sealed every two years by a company that uses a good material. To me, it appears to get down in any cracks which reduces damage due to the freeze thaw cycles. I do not believe that it is just cosmetic.

A lot of the choices about driveway materials is based on location. The amount of ground heave do to freezing and the freeze thaw cycles make a big difference.

[Dave Anderson NH]

We just had our driveway repaved last year to replace the 22-year-old one. The contractor came in and removed the old asphalt, dug out the old gravel, and installed and compacted 8" of new gravel. They compacted with a large vibratory roller vehicle. The actual pavement was a 2" base coat covered with a 1.5" finer grain topcoat. Our town building code requires an 8" compacted gravel base and a minimum 2 inches of asphalt. The quality difference between the old driveway and the new on is fantastic. I really hate having to learn things the hard and expensive way.

[John K Jordan]

Good, solid construction - that doesn’t sound inexpensive! How long is the driveway?

JKJ


We just had our driveway repaved last year to replace the 22-year-old one. The contractor came in and removed the old asphalt, dug out the old gravel, and installed and compacted 8" of new gravel. They compacted with a large vibratory roller vehicle. The actual pavement was a 2" base coat covered with a 1.5" finer grain topcoat. Our town building code requires an 8" compacted gravel base and a minimum 2 inches of asphalt. The quality difference between the old driveway and the new on is fantastic. I really hate having to learn things the hard and expensive way.

[Jim Becker]

Dave that's a very good way to insure that the replacement driveway lasts a long time!

Around here, rather than two layers of asphalt (coarse base and then fine top coat) providers tend to use an "airport mix" as they call it which is a combination of both larger and finer particles in one shot for the typical 2-4" of asphalt used for a driveway.

[Dave Anderson NH]

From the street to the garage/barn concrete apron is 102 feet. The nice thing about it is that it is downhill (6ft difference) to the street and the driveway faces due south. This is really nice when you want a clear dry driveway after a 2" nuisance snow or after you leave an inch after snow blowing a foot of white sunshine.