Wood for Storm Sash?

[John B Dale]

I need to make a few storm sashes for my house and I have some 5/4 ash that has been rough sawn and air drying for several years. Everything I've found suggests redwood, cyprus etc. but there's not much of that growing in Ohio! Would I be better off payng shipping and getting softwood or can ash, oak or the other local hardwoods provide good results? I've made a few sashes from construction grade pine but I'd like to use something that will outlast me. Thanks for any input.

John

[Lee Schierer]

Eastern Hemlock is pretty weather resistant. I've used it for pole barn siding.
484206

The siding is now over 20 years old and still going.

[Charles Murray Ohio]

I live in central Ohio. I have used Southern Yellow Pine from Lowes and Home depot for making siding and window sashes. You can generally find a few clear pieces of 2x. Rough cut it (avoid any pith) and allow it to dry. I usually put on clear Thompsons Water Seal (it must dry for 30 days) it will take an exterior oil base primer then paint with latex.

[John Keeton]

Another vote for hemlock if available and for sure, Thompson's Water Seal. In a previous home we had a shower that was lined with Michigan white cedar and I sealed it each year with Thompson's and it remained new looking for several years.

[John B Dale]

I'm going to look into the SYP framing lumber, I hadn't thought of that! Thanks

[Stew Denton]

John,

Another choice is white oak. It is extremely weather resistant and rot resistant. It is used in boat building for that reason. I listed it first because it is pretty widely available. The other two I list are likely more difficult to find.

According to my past reading, I believe any of the white oak types, as opposed to red oak, have those properties. If you look at the wood data base under "wood filter" you will find that description. Do a search on the main page of the site, again clicking on "wood filter," and type in "white oak" on the search box after the "wood filter" header. Click on "distinguishing between red oak and white oak" and there is the needed information, including a very limited listing of white oak species. Post oak is so named because it is used as fence posts because it is so weather/rot resistant.

In the book "Understanding Wood, a Craftsman's Guide to Wood Technology," is a section that mentions the technical wood structure, explaining why white oak is so much more rot resistant than is red oak.

I only looked at four ash species, and all four are rated as "perishable," a very low rating, and if all of the ash species are such, then they are not very rot resistant at all.

Other excellent choices are black locust and Osage orange.

Osage orange is considered to be one of the most extremely rot and decay resistant woods in North America. Where I grew up it is also used for fence posts, and I am virtually certain that the lifetime of such posts is greater than 40 years. Some of the posts I remember were only 1.5 inches in diameter, these for barbed wire and close together, and were very possibly 40 or more years old at that time. Some of the fences I remember may have been built in the 1930s, when full size premium Osage Orange posts would have been pretty expensive, thus the farmer/rancher used what he could afford, which were a long way from the premium posts. Osage Orange is extremely strong and tough wood, thus even small posts can be used if close enough together. Thus the stuff rots away very very slowly, even when untreated and in the ground a long time. One sawmill where I have purchased Osage Orange even sells it for use in planter boxes, thus the soil in the box would be kept moist all during the growing season. My wife and I have and use a paring knife that I made 50 years ago, it has an unfinished Osage Orange slat handle, and 50 years of washing and drying that knife have not appeared to damage the handle at all, although the color has gone from the Osage Orange yellow/orange color do dark brown.

If you look at individual types of lumber, and there is a very large listing in the "wood data base," you will find "rot resistance" listed as one of the characteristics listed, and it lists it for a lot of the species of both US and imported lumber types.

I did look at four species of SYP, and two are rated as "moderate" and two are rated as "moderate to low" as far as "rot resistance" is concerned, so SYP does not seem to be inherently rot resistant.

That said, from the comments above, the guys have had excellent results with wood types that are not inherently rot resistant, if kept well treated with Thompsons Water Seal. Thus, if you keep the sashes well treated, you can have good luck with lumber that is not very rot resistant, again, if kept treated with the water seal.

Regards,

Stew

[Mel Fulks]

I would make them out of any stable wood , meaning here : stays straight, then treat them with copper naphthalate . The kind that is NOT
oil based. Yes, the stuff can kill you ,like most finishes . Wear gloves and don’t drink any of it. Let it dry ,then paint. It works ,and I have
every confidence that you WON’T drink it.

[Scott Winners]

I agree with Stew that white oak should be considered as a economical local choice. You could price tropical hardwoods like mahogany or sapele or teak just to make white oak look better price wise. Or you can sign up for maintenance with a sealant. Pick your poison. Besides ash you can also also let go of hickory, neither are especially rot resistant in damp environs.

[John Keeton]

White oak is certainly a great choice, but from personal experience and living in bourbon country, I can assure you it is getting expensive and relatively hard to find as the bourbon industry is buying a large portion of it for barrel staves. The owner of the mill where I source most of my wood was showing me the cost of various logs he buys and it was enlightening. Some of the larger logs go for close to $2,000. That is the LOG, not the sawn wood.

[John B Dale]

I hadn't thought of White Oak, there is a saw mill/kiln within 5 miles, I haven't bought anything for a year or so, I'm going to check them out later today for current pricing and availability. Note to Mel Fulks: I promise not to drink any preservative or paint, and if I hold any nails or screws in my mouth I'll try not to swallow them!

[Tom M King]

I try to keep a Stache of clear treated Yellow Pine boards to make such things out of. It needs to dry for over a year though before being used. I used some such scraps to build this cupola out of.

It has a bad reputation for holding paint, but I think that's because people paint it before it's really dry. It holds paint fine once it's dry, and the surface has been milled away. The wood this cupola was built from, including the sash, was years old treated (roof is fiber glassed over marine Baltic Birch ply).

[John B Dale]

I ran up to the local lumber supplier this afternoon and picked up a price sheet. White oak is in short supply but I think they have enough for immediate needs, just need to get my cut list figured up. One other question, I plan on mortise and tenon joints with a wood pin, thinking os using Titebond glue for added strength. It's been several years since I did a project like this, is there a newer glue that will work better? Probably like asking who makes the best motor oil!

John

[Tom M King]

Glue type won't matter much, or even if you use any with good fitting mortises and tenons. I don't use any building window sash, house doors, or shutters when replacing them in very old houses, just like the originals that I copy. It makes it easy to replace parts 200 years later. Just knock the pegs out, and install the replacement parts.

[John B Dale]

Thanks Tom, that makes sense. This is my house, I have 5 DH windows that were replaced in the 1960's that are in looks to the origiinal 1880's windows which have wood framed storms with screens. I've thought about aluminum storms and vinyl siding over the last 38 years we've lived here but can't bring myself to do it to the old girl.

[Richard Coers]

Cypress is always my choice. Easy to work and usually easily available.

[Scott T Smith]

White oak "heart" wood is rot resistant - white oak sap wood is not. Be sure that your wo boards don't have any sapwood in them.

Hemlock and black/yellow locust are both extremely rot resistant. Osage Orange is even better. Black Walnut heart wood is also rot resistant.

Ipe is about the best that you could use.

Pressure treated pine rated for ground contact will also be very durable.

Cypress, the various cedars are softer but also rot resistant.