How do you remove this sprocket

[Alan Lightstone]

Had an issue with my Felder D951 planer. Started getting an encoder error message, and it wouldn't move the table. Spoke with tech support, and after several phone calls, their techs said that the motor was shot and needed to be replaced. Long story short, a week later after a large rush shipping charge from Austria, the motor arrives.

Instructions sent to me from tech support were a little dissapointing. Just a blow-up diagram of all the parts. In German.

But the tech told me that there were really only two bolts to open the machine, and four screws to replace the motor. Sounded good, especially after they quoted me $3300 to send a tech to do that. Yup, not a typo.

So I removed the old motor, but it has a sprocket on it to attach to the chain which is on the old motor very tightly. Is there some trick to remove the sprocket? Here's a picture:
483466
I'm not sure what that slot on the sprocket outside the shaft is for. Perhaps that's the key. There are no little set screws holding it on.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I am not experienced with that machine. I would use my 2 or 3 jaw wheel puller after finding and loosening the fastener, it should be a set screw that tightens angst the woodruff key.

[Dwayne Watt]

Rent a gear/bearing puller from your local auto parts store (usually free from O'Reilly's or AutoZone). You might need a splitting plate to go along with a two leg puller or a three leg puller may work although this sprocket is quite small diameter. I suspect there is a Woodruff (half round) key in the shaft judging by the keyway in the sprocket hub. Hit the whole thing with penetrating oil before you try pulling the sprocket.

[Tom M King]

It should ease right off with a puller. I'd put it back on in a press rather than beat on it.

[Alan Lightstone]

It should ease right off with a puller. I'd put it back on in a press rather than beat on it.

Could you be a little more specific as to what a press is? Thanks.

And boy, they could have made this SO much easier if they just sent the motor with the sprocket already attached.

[Robert Hayward]

Could you be a little more specific as to what a press is?
Do a Google search using the term "arbor press". That should bring up a bunch of pictures of different styles of an arbor press.

[Bill Dufour]

Probably a woodruff key. Is it a tapered shaft? European car alternators are almost all made by Bosch. The replacements come with no pulley. You transfer the models pulley to the generic alternator. Held on with a axial bolt like that sprocket. The pulley varies maker to maker and model year to model year.
Bill D

[Tom M King]

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-shop-press-33497.html Arbor presses will be harder to find, and they are in so many different sizes that you're limited to what will fit in one. A hydraulic press will be easier to find, and easier to use. Any mechanic shop, machine shop, or neighbor the works on stuff will have pullers and a press.

There are special kits for changing alternator (decoupler kits) and power steering pump pulleys that don't use regular pullers that won't work for this.

I can't tell by the picture, but if that center hole is threaded, you can use a power steering pulley kit to install the gear. If it's threaded, that must be their intended method of installing it.

I would change it for you if you were closer. It's a few minute job either way.

[Alan Lightstone]

It turns out that there was a set screw that I somehow missed. Loosened it, and pulled the sprocket off with ease. Of course now I'm ground to a halt being unable to loosen the chain tension enough to put it back on all the sprockets and motor sprocket. Waiting on a call back from Felder tech support. Again...

[Steve Jenkins]

It turns out that there was a set screw that I somehow missed. Loosened it, and pulled the sprocket off with ease. Of course now I'm ground to a halt being unable to loosen the chain tension enough to put it back on all the sprockets and motor sprocket. Waiting on a call back from Felder tech support. Again...

Look along the length of the chain and you may find what looks like a piece of stiff wire pressing the slack out of the chain. Loosen the bolt holding it to slack the chain.

[Alan Lightstone]

Look along the length of the chain and you may find what looks like a piece of stiff wire pressing the slack out of the chain. Loosen the bolt holding it to slack the chain.
There is a bolt that is listed as tension loosening. And it is now totally loose. But I can't figure out how it does anything. No wire that I can see.

[Bruce Wrenn]

The chain most likely has a master link in it. Clip could be on backside, so you can't readily see it. Put chain on sprocket BEFORE installing sprocket on motor.

[Greg Quenneville]

Or reinstall the motor/sprocket assembly the way you took it off…engage the chain first, then line up the bolts and don’t tighten any single bolt until they are all at least started.

[Alan Lightstone]

Or reinstall the motor/sprocket assembly the way you took it off…engage the chain first, then line up the bolts and don’t tighten any single bolt until they are all at least started.

Makes perfect sense, Greg, but the chain is too taut. No matter how hard I push/pull I'm unable to get the bolts to line up. It's almost like I need to add a link or two to the chain, then tighten it with that "tightening bolt" afterwards. Which seems crazy on the surface because the unit was built and worked fine with the present chain length.

Totally ground to a halt here. Making no progress, and despite repeated promises that Felder tech support technician will call me back, day after day goes by and they don't. And the thought of paying them $3300 to spend 5 minutes moving a chain, is not going to happen.

[Steve Jenkins]

Take a closer look at the tightening bolt and see if there is an idler sprocket that it pushes against. The shaft for it may be stuck and a light tap or two could allow it to move and loosen the chain.

[Alan Lightstone]

Take a closer look at the tightening bolt and see if there is an idler sprocket that it pushes against. The shaft for it may be stuck and a light tap or two could allow it to move and loosen the chain.
It looks like it just pushes against the cast iron frame and subtely moves the motor mount and I guess tightens the chain. But it's totally floating now. Exerting no pressure, so chain should be loose. But its so tight I can't get the motor assembly attached to the machine with the chain on, or if I attach the chain to the motor, I can't get it around on of the large sprockets on the periphery of the machine.

[John K Jordan]

It looks like it just pushes against the cast iron frame and subtely moves the motor mount and I guess tightens the chain. But it's totally floating now. Exerting no pressure, so chain should be loose. But its so tight I can't get the motor assembly attached to the machine with the chain on, or if I attach the chain to the motor, I can't get it around on of the large sprockets on the periphery of the machine.

Hard to analyze without being there. Same sprocket, same chain, motor mounting holes match up, the chain fit on the old motor and came off the l sprocket ok? At this point it may be helpful to get a second pair of eyes to take a look.

[Alan Lightstone]

Hard to analyze without being there. Same sprocket, same chain, motor mounting holes match up, the chain fit on the old motor and came off the l sprocket ok? At this point it may be helpful to get a second pair of eyes to take a look.
I couldn't agree more. All of the above check out.

Anyone in the Tampa Bay area volunteer to be that second set of eyes? Please!!!

[Steve Jenkins]

Is it possible that what the motor mounts to can move but is stuck.

[Greg Quenneville]

Did you not get the operating and parts manual with the machine? I checked the Felder owners group library but can’t find a manual for any D series machines, just the AD951 which isn’t particularly helpful.

[Bill Dufour]

Maybe loosen the bolts holding down motor so it can move along the mount.
Bill D

[Wes Grass]

Chain doubled over somewhere, or not fully seated on a sprocket?

[Jerry Bruette]

Is it possible that you need to rotate the motor shaft to change the relationship of the sprocket in the chain thus allowing the motor to fit in the mount?

I hope I stated this in a way you can understand what I'm picturing in my head.

[Tom M King]

Does the other sprocket come off as easily as this one did? If so, maybe you could slide both on at the same time. I have no picture of the setup in my head.

[Ronald Blue]

Chain doubled over somewhere, or not fully seated on a sprocket?

My thoughts as well. Check all the sprockets and make sure the chain is resting down in the teeth. Also when trying to assemble is the chain tight everywhere? Not knowing this setup at all it's difficult to analyze further. If the chain wasn't this tight when you disassembled it then it shouldn't be on reassembly. Is that the motor assembly in the photo? If so is it identical? Something is either not in position or the new motor is different it would seem.

[Greg Quenneville]

These are from different AD941/951 manuals. Is your machine like either of these?

[Ronald Blue]

These are from different AD941/951 manuals. Is your machine like either of these?

That does make me think to suggest if you haven't tried this is to leave the bolt that locks the motor in place when tensioning it. Maybe it will give enough extra travel to get the chain in place and the tension it up. There isn't more than one way it will bolt up is there? Meaning extra holes that could have it positioned wrong? Just thinking out loud here. Maybe photos of the setup if that's a possibility?

[Alan Lightstone]

Well, I'll attack it again today. I don't see any areas where the chain is doubled up, and seems tight everywhere.

Greg, those diagrams are very interesting. My manual doesn't have those, and the motor I think is mounted slightly different in those, with the motor tilted away from you, instead of towards you in that new diagram, which allows the chain tension screw to actually appear to do something. I'll see if I can mount it that way.

Here's what it looked like before I took out the motor:

483578

It looks like the motor is installed in a different orientation. The tension adjustment screw is at the back of the right side when looking at the photo. Not in the front, as the diagram you sent shows. You can see the four pedestals with sprockets at the top that the chain goes around, then loops back around the motor sprocket.

It makes me wonder if mine was installed incorrectly at the factory and forced into place. Of course if a Felder tech would actually call me back instead of them just saying "Your in the queue", I might be able to answer that.

I'll see if mine will install in that direction later today. But really need a second person to keep the chain in the other sprockets and taut while doing that. It's a four-arm job.

[Alan Lightstone]

So, I gave it another try. First I took the motor off the mount and tried to change the mount orientation. It's not possible. Interestingly, I looked at the manual I have for the D951 and the diagrams that Greg posted are also there. But the orientation of the motor cannot be in the direction of the photo, so they probably mistakenly put the wrong diagrams in the manual. They are probably from the AD951.

I think the problem now boils down to how to get the chain totally taut around the four posts, and have it not fall off while somehow getting the motor mount attached to the machine. Here's a few photos of what the issue seems to be:
483586483587483588

You can see some slack in the first two photos (the chain going around the sides of the machine.) What I need is more slack around the back of the machine (the last photo) so that I can push the motor sprocket into the chain with enough slack to mount the motor. Then I could fiddle and tension it, but there just isn't enough slack in the back to mount the motor plate.

I've put 4 small clamps on the chain keeping them in the sprockets on the corners, but there's just enough slack I can't remove (despite pulling hard) to gain that extra slack in the back.

Any suggestions as to how to make this work?

[Greg Quenneville]

The four individual jacking screws likely have to be all set with the same load. That is all tight in the up direction. If you could find some way of doing that (vice grips?) you might be able to get the slack you need.

Maybe something like a bungy strap just pulling the chain in one location close to where the motor sprocket goes.

[John K Jordan]

I don’t understand why there is slack in the other sections of chain. (Of course, I’ve never seen this machine!) They must have rotated a little when the chain was removed. Do the four jacks not turn freely (or by hand) and the chain self tighten when pressing the motor sprocket into the chain? If not, and they are tight enough to prevent being turned I suspect you’ll never hear the chain right that way.

Are the clamps positioned such that the chain/sprocket is constrained and can’t be tightened? (BTW, I sometimes use strong magnets to hold things into place when I don’t have enough hands.) Can each jack be turned a little by hand to tighten one section while pushing the motor sprocket into the chain to keep the chain tight while removing the clamps? (Is it practical to tip the whole machine over so you are pushing down instead of horizontally and the chains won’t fall off?) If the other three sections of chain can’t be snugged up it seems the motor can never be aligned properly with the mounting holes.

Another wild guess (again, with no knowledge of the mechanism): can the motor be mounted loosely on just one mounting bolt to act as a pivot (with the chain engaged on the socket) then the motor be levered into place against that pivot by pushing or pulling to hold the chain in place (with the clamps removed) while tensioning?

Four eyes and four hands certainly might help. Is there a woodworking club close with a friendly member who likes to help? Can you hire a mechanic or machinist to make a house call? Even a friend with hands and no mechanical experience might be useful.

[Alan Lightstone]

John:

Some very interesting thoughts...

Imagine that the length of the chain is longer than the peripheral distance around the four jacking screws/sprockets that raise and lower the planer bed. That extra distance is there to permit the motor to be mounted and tightened, pushing in the chain, snugging it into place on all four post sprockets as well as the motor sprocket. When the motor mount was removed, the chain fell down off the 4 outside sprockets, as it was significantly longer than them. I wish I had known of the magnet idea. If I had put magnets on all 4 outside posts keeping the chain in place, then this would have been simple. But Felder didn't suggest this. They said just loosen the chain and remove the motor mount.

Frankly, I never thought of trying to turn individual sprockets to tighten the chain. The problem I could see with that is that they could make the platform no longer parallel to the knives (one side slightly lower than the other. I would think that all four of them have to be on the same relative height on the screws on the posts. But if they can be turned (they must be able to, the chain must turn them when running), I can see that tightening the chain. But I pulled pretty hard on the chain and they didn't move, so, hmmm...

Perhaps the clamps are constraining the chain/sprockets from moving. But without them, the chain just falls down. A second pair of hands could clearly help with that.

Mounting the motor mount loosely on the bolts doesn't work yet. I will once I can get more slack on the chain in the only place I need it - around the motor sprocket.

Trying to find some local help / 2nd pair of hands locally. I'm not connected with any local woodworking presence here - Covid kinda put a serious hold on that. A shame for many reasons. So I'm a one-person operation here.

[Greg Quenneville]

Just out of curiosity did the new motor come with a mounting bracket or did you have to reuse the old one? If the former, maybe verify that they are identical. I have struggled with a similar situation in the past and I know how vexing it can be.

[Alan Lightstone]

Just out of curiosity did the new motor come with a mounting bracket or did you have to reuse the old one? If the former, maybe verify that they are identical. I have struggled with a similar situation in the past and I know how vexing it can be.
Just the motor. Have to use the old bracket. Looked again yesterday, it only mounts one way. No other configuration.

[John K Jordan]

…Perhaps the clamps are constraining the chain/sprockets from moving. But without them, the chain just falls down. A second pair of hands could clearly help with that….

Maybe use tape instead of clamps, if the magnets are unavailable or don't work. Or hold the chain up with fine wire or rubber bands


…Mounting the motor mount loosely on the bolts doesn't work yet. I will once I can get more slack on the chain in the only place I need it - around the motor sprocket….

I meant initially holding the motor with just loose bolt, tight enough to hold it up but loose enough to allow the motor to swivel. Chose a bolt hole on one end of the motor so it could be pivoted a bit away or towards the chain and possibly with increased force. If the geometry or clearances wouldn’t allow this I might still try that technique but with a suitable rod as a pivot (fat phillips screwdriver shaft, longer bolt, etc) instead of one of the original mounting bolts.

The issue of aligning the four shafts is of course a concern. Wonder how they do it at the factory - precision measurement, alignment marks/features on frame, shaft, and/or sprockets, running up or down to a stop? How critical is it - is off by one sprocket too much? Maybe the support person will call you back on Monday.

[Wes Grass]

There has to be a way to adjust that. Even normal wear ('stretching') of the chain is going to throw things out of whack eventually. But likely tiny, a couple thou' at worst? As far as the error of one tooth out, just divide the thread pitch by the number of teeth.

[Alan Lightstone]

Well, the plot thickens. I got two neighbors to come over and the 3 of us were finally able to get the new motor mounted and on all the sprockets. I have no idea how a single person would be able to do it. I powered it up, changed the dimensions to move the table, and got the same ECO error. So, lots of hard work, and now I'm not sure if replacing the motor really was the correct step to repair the error code.

So, I'll be calling Felder tomorrow morning. Who knows when they'll hook me up with someone who can actually answer questions regarding the machine? So far, I'm $400 into this, over a week gone, and no forward progress. Aaaarghhhhh!!! :eek:

[Greg Quenneville]

The long time owners on the Felder forum can often be quite helpful for this kind of thing, plus there are electronics experts and mechanical gurus there, and other D951 owners.

[Alan Lightstone]

The long time owners on the Felder forum can often be quite helpful for this kind of thing, plus there are electronics experts and mechanical gurus there, and other D951 owners.
I'll give that a shot too. I thought that with so many woodworkers on this site, with so many varied and large machines, I would naturally run into someone with experience, hopefully with this particular machine. And the suggestions have been very helpful, and enlightening.

[Jerry Bruette]

Something has to tell the encoder where the home position is. Then it starts counting revolutions and partial revolutions. If the encoder doesn't know where it is it will probably throw a fault and the motor won't run.

[Alan Lightstone]

Something has to tell the encoder where the home position is. Then it starts counting revolutions and partial revolutions. If the encoder doesn't know where it is it will probably throw a fault and the motor won't run.
I thought of that, but there's no instructions in the manual to tell it. I always thought the problem was a software one, as the problem started when I typed something on the keypad, like something needs to be reset from a code on the display panel, but not given any instructions how to do that. And tech support told me that there are no service manuals for the machine (which I was pretty skeptical of)...

[Greg Quenneville]

It absolutely pisses me off with Felder documentation. They know that outside of Europe woodworkers are not also trained in machine maintenance, and they know plenty of their machines go to hobbyists. And they note critically important items with a sentence. No emphasis, no caution or warning flags.

You often encounter lubrication and adjustment intervals, but no guidance how to do either.

Encoder errors must have a reset and recalibrate routine. Too bad it seems to be pay to play.

I have a German workshop lift on my bench right now trying to figure out the same issue. Of course there is no documentation. It has what looks to be the same gear motor. And when it comes to electronics I have all the sophistication of one of those cave men in the Far Side cartoons.

[Greg Quenneville]

By the way, can you find any third party identification on that panel Alan? I am positive that would be an off the shelf item from a vendor

[Alan Lightstone]

So the plot thickens some more. On my 3rd phone call today, I reached a really nice, helpful tech at Felder. He ran me through all the display/keyboard methods, and we got nowhere.

I happened to mention that the main motor and conveyor were also not functional. I was never asked if they were. He then had me open the electrical circuit panel (not my favorite thing to do on an energized 230V, 3-Phase machine and use my volt meter for some tests. Then we tested fuses, and found that two were blown.

So, now a hunt for 400mA, small metric fuses. Certainly nothing locally here, likely McMaster-Carr or someone else. Not easy to find those small fuses.

Hopefully that will fix everything, although clearly it will need to be recalibrated. And if that doesn't work, getting a tech here as IWF approaches will be very difficult.

[Robert Hayward]

Check Mouser Electronics for your fuse. I have no clue what package shape or size you require but Mouser shows a bunch of 400ma fuses in different configurations.

[Alan Lightstone]

I found it on McMaster-Carr, and supposedly it will be delivered on Wed. Obviously big box stores were a total zero for 5mmx20mm fuses. Ace Hardware too. Grainger was twice the price, and slower delivery.

Forgot about Mouser. Nice hint. Thanks. They only have a few thousand in stock. :D

[Kevin Jenness]

Recently my ancient lathe task light failed to turn on. After checking the bulb I jumped to the conclusion that the switch was bad and started to dismantle the fixture. Turned out I had accidentally turned off the power strip supplying the task light - a good reminder to check the basics before making unneeded repairs.

When two motors on a machine fail to start the most likely cure is not replacing one of them, despite what some distant tech may conclude from an errant code. If that first tech had an overview of the situation he might not have gone down that blind alley. I hope new fuses fix your problem and the issue is not something deeper.

If the chain and sprockets have gone out of sync, throwing off the planer bed/cutterhead alignment, it may be that there is an adjustment to be made at the bottom of the threaded support rods.

[Alan Lightstone]

Recently my ancient lathe task light failed to turn on. After checking the bulb I jumped to the conclusion that the switch was bad and started to dismantle the fixture. Turned out I had accidentally turned off the power strip supplying the task light - a good reminder to check the basics before making unneeded repairs.

When two motors on a machine fail to start the most likely cure is not replacing one of them, despite what some distant tech may conclude from an errant code. If that first tech had an overview of the situation he might not have gone down that blind alley. I hope new fuses fix your problem and the issue is not something deeper.

If the chain and sprockets have gone out of sync, throwing off the planer bed/cutterhead alignment, it may be that there is an adjustment to be made at the bottom of the threaded support rods.

Interesting about an adjustment at the bottom of the threaded support rods. Of course, nothing mentioned in the manual (and clearly the tech was reading off a service manual when we spoke yesterday. The manual that the company says doesn't exist.)

Once I get it working, I'll have to run through a few boards and see if they are the same thicknesses on all corners.

[David Buchhauser]

A bearing splitter or gear puller should to the trick.
David

[Alan Lightstone]

So, the fuses came today, as promised, from Mcmaster-Carr. Put them in, and the other motors started up.

Calibration was a bit difficult. I thought it still wasn't working, as it ignored a bunch of commands for a few minutes. But eventually I got the lift motor to move, and was able to plane a piece, measure it to 0.01 inch, and type that calibrated position into the planer. Was still slightly off for a couple of tries, then sorted out.

So, hopefully fixed. Of course, being charged almost $400 for a motor I didn't need, which involved an incredibly difficult installation really due to a tech support rep not asking the proper questions and just jumping to the conclusion that the motor needed to be replaced really was wrong. Felder definitely loses tech support points for this fiasco.

The latest, knowledgeable rep called me again this morning to check on progress. The fuses hadn't arrived yet, so he said he'd call back tomorrow. He was a quality guy. The first two reps I spoke with - not so much.

[Alan Lightstone]

So, sadly, the plot thickens more yet again. I ran a few boards through the planer today, and they don't come out parallel. When attaching the chain, some of the sprockets on the post must have turned on one side, while the others didn't. So the sprockets are not on the threads on the posts at the same height. Aaaarghhh!!!!!

I'll call Felder tech support tomorrow, but considering just how difficult it was to install the motor / chain, I can't imagine doing it myself. Also, no way I'm spending $3300 for a tech, but may have to resort to their $500 fee to send a tech, who knows when, when they're in my area.

All this for a repair that should have been two $3 fuses that their first tech misdiagnosed.

Really loved the company until now....

[John K Jordan]

So, sadly, the plot thickens more yet again. I ran a few boards through the planer today, and they don't come out parallel. When attaching the chain, some of the sprockets on the post must have turned on one side, while the others didn't. So the sprockets are not on the threads on the posts at the same height. Aaaarghhh!!!!!
....

Do you have precision measuring tools? I'd consider measuring carefully and adjusting the sprockets accordingly. If not, a local machine shop should be able to do it. When you get it right perhaps mark a line on the each one with a paint marker to indicate the registration in case this happens again in the future.

[Alan Lightstone]

Do you have precision measuring tools? I'd consider measuring carefully and adjusting the sprockets accordingly. If not, a local machine shop should be able to do it. When you get it right perhaps mark a line on the each one with a paint marker to indicate the registration in case this happens again in the future.
I can measure the boards to 0.001 thickness. I would think a repair would involve removing the chain again, and spinning all of the sprockets to a fixed point, like the top of the machine. Then putting back on the chain.

But taking off the chain and reinstalling it on the motor/sprockets took 3 people to do.

[Brian Holcombe]

After dealing with some stuff like this I’ve taken to stocking spares of many parts. It’s certainly saved me from days/weeks of not using a machine while waiting for parts to arrive. On things like fuses, capacitors, belts and bearings it’s often helpful to have them around. Recently I ordered a cutterhead for a small machine, the manufacturer sent the wrong bearings (perhaps for a similar machine) and luckily I had the correct bearings on hand. Not sure I would do this for every bearing but the common ones.

WRT planer table, on a recent two post planer I did this using a block of wood as a go/no-go gauge. I just place it under the cutter head then rotated by hand until it just barely started to touch on either side of the cutter head, this was just fine for a two post planer. That will get you in the ballpark but on a four post planer but you’ll have to adjust out twist also. I’d reference your checking tools off a ground parallel surface on the machine. Could do this with 1-2-3 blocks, a straight edge (a real straightedge checked for flatness) and feeler gauges.

Next time when you take it apart, paint a tooth on the sprocket with a location on the machine and on the chain on every sprocket. That way you know how they orient before you tear it down.

Tear-down is a detailed process on machine parts, document and make life easier by noting orientation of parts.

[Kevin Jenness]

Is there any reason why you can't use shim stock under the threaded rod brackets where they mount to the machine frame? You may be able to rotate the rods for gross height adjustment and dial in with shims.

[John K Jordan]

I can measure the boards to 0.001 thickness. I would think a repair would involve removing the chain again, and spinning all of the sprockets to a fixed point, like the top of the machine. Then putting back on the chain.

But taking off the chain and reinstalling it on the motor/sprockets took 3 people to do.

I can imagine your frustration.

Indexing sll sprockets to the top or elsewhere may not do it, depending on mfg tolerances and hope it’s constructed. A dial test indicator on a suitable precision bed would be my preference. I mount one on the milling machine for such things, not useful if you don’t have one. That’s why I suggested the machine shop. However I dont even know if the machine can be moved.

I still have hard time believing 3 people are needed to loosen and tighten the chain. Don’t make me drive down there…Can not support give you a procedure? This would stretch my patience and normal good humor. Maybe ask to speak to someone who knows something.

[Alan Lightstone]

Is there any reason why you can't use shim stock under the threaded rod brackets where they mount to the machine frame? You may be able to rotate the rods for gross height adjustment and dial in with shims.
That's interesting, Kevin. There may be something to being able to rotate the one or two rods while the chain keeps the sprocket in the same location on the chain (I know I didn't describe this right).

The problem now is that the steel plate that must, I guess, hold the roller assembly that moves the wood is no longer level to the machine and cutter heads. By small amounts, but certainly noticeable. I really don't know how this looks much on the inside. Much is hidden from view.

The motor I changed/installed rotates the chain which goes around 4 acme screws - one on each post. This is used to raise/lower the table to adjust height with a digital control and readout. Now if all four sprockets are on the same level in relation to the roller assembly, the unit will cut a consistent thickness. But if one or two are slightly higher or lower on the acme screws, the wood must feed in a little crooked with some areas being planed thicker than others.

I hope that explains it better.

[Alan Lightstone]

I can imagine your frustration.

I still have hard time believing 3 people are needed to loosen and tighten the chain. Don’t make me drive down there…Can not support give you a procedure? This would stretch my patience and normal good humor. Maybe ask to speak to someone who knows something.

I was more than stunned that it took more than one person to do it, much less three. The chain is just made too short, so the "loosening bolt" is a joke (I actually can't figure out how it could possible loosen anything by its design.

And, if you're ever in the Tampa Bay area - come on over. :)

[Kevin Jenness]

That's interesting, Kevin. There may be something to being able to rotate the one or two rods while the chain keeps the sprocket in the same location on the chain (I know I didn't describe this right).

The problem now is that the steel plate that must, I guess, hold the roller assembly that moves the wood is no longer level to the machine and cutter heads. By small amounts, but certainly noticeable. I really don't know how this looks much on the inside. Much is hidden from view.

The motor I changed/installed rotates the chain which goes around 4 acme screws - one on each post. This is used to raise/lower the table to adjust height with a digital control and readout. Now if all four sprockets are on the same level in relation to the roller assembly, the unit will cut a consistent thickness. But if one or two are slightly higher or lower on the acme screws, the wood must feed in a little crooked with some areas being planed thicker than others.

I hope that explains it better.

I think you are visualizing the situation correctly. Unbolting the rod brackets and rotating the rods will have the same effect as removing the chain and rotating the sprockets, except that the resolution is finer on the sprockets than the brackets so you might need shims for fine tuning. Use a gauge block as Brian described as well as a straightedge from corner to corner of the planer table to get it parallel to the cutterhead and free of twist.

Looking closely at the parts diagram in post 26 it looks as though the threaded bottom socket is captured between two flanges. It may be a matter of simply loosening those flanges and rotating the sockets to get your table height correct.

[Alan Lightstone]

I think you are visualizing the situation correctly. Unbolting the rod brackets and rotating the rods will have the same effect as removing the chain and rotating the sprockets, except that the resolution is finer on the sprockets than the brackets so you might need shims for fine tuning. Use a gauge block as Brian described as well as a straightedge from corner to corner of the planer table to get it parallel to the cutterhead and free of twist.

Looking closely at the parts diagram in post 26 it looks as though the threaded bottom socket is captured between two flanges. It may be a matter of simply loosening those flanges and rotating the sockets to get your table height correct.

Where would you use the gauge block? Or the shims for that matter.

[Kevin Jenness]

The gauge block would be used between the table and cutterhead. If I am right about the bottom flanges then shims would not be needed under them.

[Greg Quenneville]

The nuts at the bottom of the threaded rods are retained by a ring. Apparently you loosen the ring and rotate the nut or nuts to adjust for parallelism. If you know how much of a taper you are currently getting this might be straightforward with a dial indicator.

[Alan Lightstone]

Something has to tell the encoder where the home position is. Then it starts counting revolutions and partial revolutions. If the encoder doesn't know where it is it will probably throw a fault and the motor won't run.
There was a zeroing/calibration routine that does that. So it thinks it knows where it is, but it's lifting up a metal platen that isn't parallel to the machine. So I think I'll be okay with that part.

[Alan Lightstone]

So it turns out, leveling out the table was only slightly annoying, but really not difficult.

Here's a picture of the bottom of the threaded rods/posts:

484935
I spoke with Felder tech support, and what you have to do is remove the 3 bolts on the bottom of the large washers, then rotate the plastic threaded washers either clockwise or counterclockwise to raise/lower the platen on the post. You actually need a very large wrench to do that once it gets in a tight range.

It turns out, the three holes on the washer have to line up with the 3 holes on the cabinet, so it's not infinite adjustability, but it does work. Ultimately, after a few failed guesses, I put an electronic level on the front and back of the platen, and zeroed them out to perfectly level.

After doing that, a planed board was parallel to a couple of thousandths of an inch. I'd consider that good enough for woodworking.

So Greg you were spot on with your suggestion. I'm still not sure how I would get a dial indicator on it, but this way worked.

[Rod Sheridan]

Glad to hear you got it adjusted, I use a Oneway multi gauge for planer bed adjustments…. Rod

[Greg Quenneville]

I sometimes assume too much about other people's machinist tool collections. I have a nifty Etalon magnetic triple articulated indicator holder that can be mounted almost anywhere and reach into unlikely places. Precision levels are equally good if not better, but the most sensitive ones can be frustrating.

I have seen Oneways used inverted to indicate up to the cutter block, but happily haven’t yet had the need to invent new contortions and broader vistas in profanity to perform that caper.

Alan, I am surprised thatFelder hasn’t provided you with a parts manual with exploded diagrams. My tip to you came from inferring the mechanism from the AD951 manual. I assumed that Felder wouldn’t have invented a new elevation mechanism for your machine.

Anyway…happy ending!

[Alan Lightstone]

Quick question, as I think I still need to make adjustments to the height of the sprockets on the screws.

What's acceptable difference in 1/100" or mm of one side of a board vs another after going through a planer. This is assuming a perfectly flat bottom after being run through a jointer. There are digital settings on the planer, but the boards are now coming out not perfectly flat. One side's vertical thickness is slightly higher than the other. Essentially a sideways trapezoid/trapezium instead of a perfect cuboid/right prism/box.

[Jerry Bruette]

I suppose it depends on what you're going to use the material for. If you're going t run it through a lock miter bit on the router table it could make a difference. If you're just making a box with mitered joints it probably won't make much difference.

How much is the board off at the widest the planer will handle?

[Alan Lightstone]

How much is the board off at the widest the planer will handle?

I have to run another planed board through it to look again. It was clearly measurable with digital calipers, but I don't want to give out wrong information.

[Greg Quenneville]

I would think that 0.1mm or .004” would be too much. That’s about the thickness of a piece of paper and would vex me slightly if edge joining boards.

[Greg Quenneville]

Well, I was wrong according to Prof Schlessinger of “Testing Machine Tools” fame. Here is a photo of the page on planers:

[Alan Lightstone]

Fascinating, Greg. I'll feed a board through later today and measure. I remember that it was bang-on perfect when I received the machine. It's only when I had to replace the motor (which I really didn't, thanks Felder tech support) that my machine went off calibration.

[Alan Lightstone]

So things got interesting. When I turned on the machine, I got an encoder error again. Same as last time when they initially had me change out the motor, only to find out it was 2 fuses that blew. So I opened up the side panel (a pain where it is located), and sure enough, the same 2 fuses were blown again. Not sure what that's about. Definitely not happy about that. But this time, I had the fuses, and saved $500 and got it running again.

I jointed a board flat, then ran it through the planer. The difference in thickness left to right of the board was 0.4mm over a 213mm wide board. Interestingly, it was 0.1mm front to back. So 1.87mm error per 1000mm. A lot more than the chart's permissible error. So I guess I'll have to open up the machine and tweak one or two of those screw/sprocket assemblies. Not quite sure if I have to just adjust one vs two of them. Any thoughts as to that? Really don't have way to measure distance from table to knives that I have.

The board came out with thicknesses like this (Imagine those are corners of a rectangle):

44.00 44.40



44.10 44.30

[Brian Holcombe]

I would mock up an indicator on something I could slide. Run it under the cutter head at a location where there aren’t knives (rotate the head). Do the same thing on both sides of the machine.

I’d start by adjusting only the one you took apart, unless you had to rotate more than one of them. If it was just one than I think it is reasonably safe to assume that jack screw is the one which should be adjusted.

Not sure what to suggest on the fuse, could be something grounding out, perhaps a switch is going bad

[Greg Quenneville]

What’s the pitch on those screwjacks? For some reason I thought they were 4mm which would make chasing 0.1 a 9° adjustment.

Greg

[Alan Lightstone]

What’s the pitch on those screwjacks? For some reason I thought they were 4mm which would make chasing 0.1 a 9° adjustment.

Greg
Not sure how I could tell the pitch without removing the screwjacks (which I can't and really don't want to).

No way to make a 9 degree adjustment. Really more like 45 degrees (I think there are 4 bolt holes per holder, and you have to rotate it to the next hole.)

[Greg Quenneville]

I guess I don’t understand the mechanism from the parts diagram. I thought you loosened the washer, rotated the nut to the desired position then tightened it down again.

The exploded parts diagram shows the jack screws as 20mm x 4, so only being able to move it in 90° increments would give you 1mm steps. Surely there is some fine adjustment available?

[Alan Lightstone]

I guess I don’t understand the mechanism from the parts diagram. I thought you loosened the washer, rotated the nut to the desired position then tightened it down again.

The exploded parts diagram shows the jack screws as 20mm x 4, so only being able to move it in 90° increments would give you 1mm steps. Surely there is some fine adjustment available?

Part 1 is attached to the base of the machine. It has 3 bolts that run into the base. You have to remove all 3 bolts, then can rotate part 1 until the bolts then line up with the next set of holes and all 3 bolts then have to retighten to the base. I haven't reopened the cabinet, but that's the minimum that the piece can be rotated, and then whatever that translates to changing the height of that corner of the assembly / table.

[Jerry Bruette]

Why can't you leave the nut bolted down and disengage the chain from the sprocket and turn the screw one tooth and reengage the chain?

[Alan Lightstone]

Why can't you leave the nut bolted down and disengage the chain from the sprocket and turn the screw one tooth and reengage the chain?
It took 3 people to get the chain back on the sprocket last time. Truly insane what effort it took. Hell will freeze over before I do that again. Truly nuts.

Maybe it can/was done at factory during assembly, but a total non-starter approach now, as simple as it sounds. :(

[Brian Holcombe]

Most likely that’s what the issue is, sounds like one of them got clocked incorrectly. My gripe with the Felder machine that I owned I while back was that it was very difficult to adjust but that was a much different type of machine.

So, you can rotate the post 90 degrees and see if that resolves it and if not than you know what the answer is.

Probably worth picking up some basic tear down equipment and tooling so that you can make life easier. The woodworker tool kit usually consists of a handful of wrenches but adding a complete mechanics set is a worthwhile addition. I work with my equipment full time so I’m repairing things on occasion and the more geared up you are for that eventuality, the easier that work is.

[Malcolm McLeod]

It took 3 people to get the chain back on the sprocket last time. Truly insane what effort it took. Hell will freeze over before I do that again. Truly nuts.

Maybe it can/was done at factory during assembly, but a total non-starter approach now, as simple as it sounds. :(

I have read some of these posts ...not all. And I don't own a Felder anything, but at one time I had a fair amount of experience looking over my maintenance mechanics' shoulders - at chain drives. They ALL had master links.

I have not seen anyone reference a master link in Felder's chain. Is there a master link?

If so, it should be a simple matter to loosen (not remove) the motor and so de-tension the chain, pull the master link, de-mount the chain, measure the error (as per Mr Holcombe's suggestions), clock the errant post's sprocket by some specific (integer) tooth count, remount the chain, install master link, tighten/tension motor.

If there is no master link, cut the chain and trash it, buy a new one with a master link and re-install.

Easily possible that I'm missing something, but in the context of adjusting a chain, this seems to be a simple issue.

:rolleyes:Organizing my edits (Trying to check my PMs RE:classified, a slow day at work, and I keep thinking of new tweaks):

Or, some DIY engineering: buy a longer chain than your current one (of proper pitch, of course), and install suitably sized chain tensioner (https://www.mrosupply.com/chains-sprockets/1405295_b6013n_brewer/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq_awscvJ-gIVNhvUAR00pADsEAQYFCABEgImlfD_BwE). (If you are convinced the OEM tensioner does not work.)
And since I have no clue of your chain experience, one more just popped into my head: In case the master link is difficult or you don't want to loosen the motor, have you used a chain puller (https://www.amazon.com/chain-puller-tool/s?k=chain+puller+tool)? Cheap. Might help too?
If you think the OEM tensioner does work, or will - with the proper (longer) length chain, then add a half link (aka offset link). You still have to find the master link and you have to ID the pitch of the chain (hoping it is in the manual?) to get the correct half link. Keep in mind that if/as you add ANY slack to the chain, you introduce back-lash in the system. And this probably explains Felder's ...uhm... generosity with chain length.



Read back through the thread for a bit more detail and I do see that others mentioned a master link, but I didn't see any reference to your actually using it...??

[Alan Lightstone]

I have read some of these posts ...not all. And I don't own a Felder anything, but at one time I had a fair amount of experience looking over my maintenance mechanics' shoulders - at chain drives. They ALL had master links.

I have not seen anyone reference a master link in Felder's chain. Is there a master link?

If so, it should be a simple matter to loosen (not remove) the motor and so de-tension the chain, pull the master link, de-mount the chain, measure the error (as per Mr Holcombe's suggestions), clock the errant post's sprocket by some specific (integer) tooth count, remount the chain, install master link, tighten/tension motor.

If there is no master link, cut the chain and trash it, buy a new one with a master link and re-install.

Easily possible that I'm missing something, but in the context of adjusting a chain, this seems to be a simple issue.

:rolleyes:Organizing my edits (Trying to check my PMs RE:classified, a slow day at work, and I keep thinking of new tweaks):

Or, some DIY engineering: buy a longer chain than your current one (of proper pitch, of course), and install suitably sized chain tensioner (https://www.mrosupply.com/chains-sprockets/1405295_b6013n_brewer/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq_awscvJ-gIVNhvUAR00pADsEAQYFCABEgImlfD_BwE). (If you are convinced the OEM tensioner does not work.)
And since I have no clue of your chain experience, one more just popped into my head: In case the master link is difficult or you don't want to loosen the motor, have you used a chain puller (https://www.amazon.com/chain-puller-tool/s?k=chain+puller+tool)? Cheap. Might help too?
If you think the OEM tensioner does work, or will - with the proper (longer) length chain, then add a half link (aka offset link). You still have to find the master link and you have to ID the pitch of the chain (hoping it is in the manual?) to get the correct half link. Keep in mind that if/as you add ANY slack to the chain, you introduce back-lash in the system. And this probably explains Felder's ...uhm... generosity with chain length.



Read back through the thread for a bit more detail and I do see that others mentioned a master link, but I didn't see any reference to your actually using it...??

Thanks for your in depth suggestions, Malcolm. Very much appreciated.

As far as I can tell, the Felder chain tensioner does absolutely nothing of value. May be installed wrong, may be designed badly. I have no clue.

I have no chain experience whatsover, except putting one back on my bicycle's bracket when I changed wheels on my bike 15 years ago.

That chain puller looks interesting. How exactly does it work. Do you disconnect the master link, add one link, then use the chain puller to pull the chain together and reattach the master link?

I have not found, or done anything regarding the master link, assuming it has one (which I don't know that it does)

Just for clarity, here's a photo of the threaded rod and assembly on the bottom of the planer. It's the one where your only choice is to remove the 3 bolts and rotate by 120 degrees clockwise or counterclockwise and reattach the bolts. Pretty crude adjustment.
487398

[Rob Luter]

Thanks for your in depth suggestions, Malcolm. Very much appreciated.

As far as I can tell, the Felder chain tensioner does absolutely nothing of value. May be installed wrong, may be designed badly. I have no clue.

I have no chain experience whatsover, except putting one back on my bicycle's bracket when I changed wheels on my bike 15 years ago.

That chain puller looks interesting. How exactly does it work. Do you disconnect the master link, add one link, then use the chain puller to pull the chain together and reattach the master link?

I have not found, or done anything regarding the master link, assuming it has one (which I don't know that it does)

Just for clarity, here's a photo of the threaded rod and assembly on the bottom of the planer. It's the one where your only choice is to remove the 3 bolts and rotate by 120 degrees clockwise or counterclockwise and reattach the bolts. Pretty crude adjustment.
487398

Based on the construction of the threaded rod assembly, I'll speculate it can be adjusted further.

The steel ring is a two piece affair and the white piece that terminates the threaded rod has hex flats on it. I suspect the white piece has a flange that gets clamped between the two steel parts when the three bolts are tightened. Loosen the bolts a bit and put a wrench on the flats of the white piece. I'll bet it will turn. I used to design machinery and we used this method for jack screws and such.

[Curt Harms]

If you have my luck, you'll have a master link. The clip will be on the inaccessible side :mad:. I don't know if there are different size/pitch standards for metric machines vs. SAE but I wouldn't be surprised. If you wanted to add a link you'd have to be sure to get the proper size/pitch link.

[Jim OConnor]

Suggest you join the Felder Owners Group. Lots of people familiar with Felder engineering. I suspect someone has been down this path before and can help.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Based on the construction of the threaded rod assembly, I'll speculate it can be adjusted further. ...

^I have wondered the same, but I'd also think they would include some type of 'pre-load nut'..?? My ignorance of the brand makes me reluctant to suggest this.


... The clip will be on the inaccessible side :mad:. ...

^"Thou shall observate and examinate each-est finely form-est-ed element in thy chainly mechanism - thricely over again - even surely with a glass of magnificationing - beforest thou discover thy master! Let it be written thusly in RC64 steel." BTDT


...That chain puller looks interesting. How exactly does it work. Do you disconnect the master link, add one link, then use the chain puller to pull the chain together and reattach the master link?

I have not found, or done anything regarding the master link, assuming it has one (which I don't know that it does)

...
The pictures in the link say it better than I, but my version:
487399
The tips go on the rollers, and it pulls the chain ends together with considerable leverage. ^This example is a bit 'off' :: no hole on the right :: you need 2 holes to insert a master link.

And a master link ready to install:
487400
^To repair: The plate with pins goes in the !2! holes - gotta have 1 in each end, the other side plate drops on the pins, and the double c-clip engages with groves in the ends of each pin.

To remove: find the master, straddle it with the puller, pull enough to take the tension, but not put it in compression (maybe straddle 1 link farther out than the master - to prevent any compression?). Pull the c-clip and the side plate, push the pin-plate out. Youboob includes everything from backyard astronautics to DIY brain surgery - surely there is video of chain repair?

I cannot fathom a chain w/o a master link, but if your chain truly has none, get a properly sized chain tool set including a puller and a break (shown in the same hyperlink above). Use the break to remove any outer side plate off your chain, knock that pin plate out, dispose of that (now ruined) link. Then get a master link and, if warranted, a half link or 2 to repair.

[Jerry Bruette]

If the assembly diagram that Greg Quenneville referenced is in fact the proper drawing for your machine then it appears to me that the sprockets on the threaded rods are 20 tooth sprockets. Turning the sprocket/rod one tooth will get you 18* of rotation. Don't know if that's what you need or not. Greg figured 9*.

I think that as stated in other replies if you loosen #5 bolts and turn part #3 in the direction needed to move the rod up or down then retighten the bolts it should solve your problem.

For adjusting the chain tension it looks like you have to loosen parts #38 and part #40 probably pushes against the machine frame to tension the chain.

I've worked on hundreds of feet of chain drives, from size 35 to 120, and everyone of them had a master link, not all the drives had a tensioner. I don't know any other way to put a chain onto the sprockets of a drive. If the numbers in the referenced drawing and parts list are correct for your machine I think you have a #35 chain. All you have to do is count the side plates and that will tell you how long your new chain needs to be , plus one master link. Here's a link for information on chain dimensions and other information. https://www.peerchain.com/chain-pitches/

[Bill Dufour]

Based on the construction of the threaded rod assembly, I'll speculate it can be adjusted further.

The steel ring is a two piece affair and the white piece that terminates the threaded rod has hex flats on it. I suspect the white piece has a flange that gets clamped between the two steel parts when the three bolts are tightened. Loosen the bolts a bit and put a wrench on the flats of the white piece. I'll bet it will turn. I used to design machinery and we used this method for jack screws and such.
That does seem possible. The visible lower flange is thicker then required for a one piece part. It actually looks easy to adjust, if that is how it works.
Bill D

[Kevin Jenness]

Based on the construction of the threaded rod assembly, I'll speculate it can be adjusted further.

The steel ring is a two piece affair and the white piece that terminates the threaded rod has hex flats on it. I suspect the white piece has a flange that gets clamped between the two steel parts when the three bolts are tightened. Loosen the bolts a bit and put a wrench on the flats of the white piece. I'll bet it will turn. I used to design machinery and we used this method for jack screws and such.

I agree. There would be no reason for the flats on the white flange collar otherwise.

[Greg Quenneville]

The German name for those rings is klemmring, which translates to pinch, or clamp ring. I have always thought that the rings were unscrewed, the upper one pried free of the nut, adjustment made, then the rings screwed back together to fix the nut in place.

The diagram I posted is for the AD941, which I believe has a common mechanism with Alan's machine.

[Alan Lightstone]

I agree. There would be no reason for the flats on the white flange collar otherwise.
I wondered about that as well. I removed the three bolts several times and didn't see that I could adjust the white flange collar piece separately from the base of the assembly, but I could have missed that. It certainly would make for more accurate adjustments.

Hopefully this weekend I can attack this. I'm still not sure which of the four posts to adjust.

With those dimensions of the board:

Fr-L Fr-R
44.00 44.40


44.10 44.30
R-L R-R

With those abbreviations as Front Left, Front Right, Back Left, and Back Right.

Are the front to back differences snipe? And is this just one post on the right to adjust, or two? Clearly the left-right difference is what's way off.

Really can't get my head around how to measure the difference in height between the metal table and the rollers accurately, which would answer that question, I guess.

[Kevin Jenness]

I wondered about that as well. I removed the three bolts several times and didn't see that I could adjust the white flange collar piece separately from the base of the assembly, but I could have missed that. It certainly would make for more accurate adjustments.

Hopefully this weekend I can attack this. I'm still not sure which of the four posts to adjust.

With those dimensions of the board:

Fr-L Fr-R
44.00 44.40


44.10 44.30
R-L R-R

With those abbreviations as Front Left, Front Right, Back Left, and Back Right.

Are the front to back differences snipe? And is this just one post on the right to adjust, or two? Clearly the left-right difference is what's way off.

Really can't get my head around how to measure the difference in height between the metal table and the rollers accurately, which would answer that question, I guess.

If the white flanges are as large as the bolt circle and are penetrated by the bolts, the adjustment would be limited to 120* increments. If smaller and simply pinched between the metal collars, they should be infinitely adjustable.

I would use a gauge block and feeler gauges or a dial indicator in a jig like the Oneway or Bob Vaughan's setup to check that the table is parallel to the knife cutting circle, and a straightedge and feeler gauges to check the table for twist. I would check the thickness from side to side at the board's center. Any discrepancies at the ends are likely related to roller, chipbreaker and pressure bar settings.

I wonder how long those plastic fittings will last compared to cast iron or steel?

[Brian Holcombe]

I wouldn’t measure to the rollers, measure to a machined reference surface.

[Bill Dufour]

I wouldn’t measure to the rollers, measure to a machined reference surface.

Maybe the cutterhead OD, not the knives?
Bill D

[Brian Holcombe]

Yeah, that’ll get you a good measurement left to right, but not at four corners so if there is no easy place to reference off of than I would set it left to right and use a precision level to make sure it were the same at the corners. When the level agrees on both infeed and outfeed and the measurement from cutterhead to table is in agreement than it’s most likely pretty spot on.

A precision spirit level is great for areas where it’s hard to get a reference edge.

Run a board afterward and measure the results in a few inches from the end to eliminate snipe from consideration.

[Robyn Horton]

Is there a way to measure the distance between the top of the white plastic on the bottom to the sprocket on the top and make all the measurements the same. Cut a piece of wood then with a screw at each end adjust the screw till it just fits on one of them, adjust the the bottom plastic piece up or down till they are all the same ... Just a thought

[Alan Lightstone]

Maybe the cutterhead OD, not the knives?
Bill D
That's what I meant. Sorry.

[Alan Lightstone]

Yeah, that’ll get you a good measurement left to right, but not at four corners so if there is no easy place to reference off of than I would set it left to right and use a precision level to make sure it were the same at the corners. When the level agrees on both infeed and outfeed and the measurement from cutterhead to table is in agreement than it’s most likely pretty spot on.

A precision spirit level is great for areas where it’s hard to get a reference edge.

Run a board afterward and measure the results in a few inches from the end to eliminate snipe from consideration.
How do you get a precision level to register consistently with the multiple spiral cutterheads on the cutterhead? Really confused as how to measure this. I think I could make something like the Oneway work.

[Kevin Jenness]

How do you get a precision level to register consistently with the multiple spiral cutterheads on the cutterhead? Really confused as how to measure this. I think I could make something like the Oneway work.

You don't have to register the level on the cutterhead. Make sure the table is not twisted by using a high precision level on the table ends as Brian suggests, or span across the table corners with a straightedge and feeler gauges. If the table is twisted adjust one screw jack until it is flat, then get the table parallel to the cutterhead by adjusting both screws on one side using a gauge block or dial indicator to measure the table to cutterhead distance.

[Brian Holcombe]

As Kevin mentions, the level goes on the planer bed. I would mock an indicator up to slide under the cutter head to check parallel.

[Alan Lightstone]

I did actually use a digital level on the planer bed when I last adjusted it. As I recall, it showed perfectly level side-side when I measured the front and back of the planer bed. Now, of course, how accurate that digital level is, is a good question.

[Kevin Jenness]

I did actually use a digital level on the planer bed when I last adjusted it. As I recall, it showed perfectly level side-side when I measured the front and back of the planer bed. Now, of course, how accurate that digital level is, is a good question.

For the kind of accuracy we're talking about I think you need a master precision level registering in the range of .0005" per 10" like this one https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/69017275.

Absolute level to the earth is not the goal, rather getting the table parallel to the cutting circle and free of twist. A good level can help you get the table flat but I think a dial indicator or gauge block is what you want for the parallel setting.

[Brian Holcombe]

It’s helpful if the machine is level but as Kevin points out.

A precision level can be used to compare multiple points on a flat surface. You use the level to take a reading on one side of the machine, after the table has been made parallel to the cutterhead.

So, as Kevin describes, I would make the table parallel to the cutterhead by reading both sides with an indicator, than maintain parallel as you adjust the corners until the level agrees on both sides of the table.

The one way gauge looks like it would be perfect for checking the parallelism between the table and the cutterhead.

[Alan Lightstone]

And yet another twist today. I haven't had a chance to fix the accuracy of the cuts yet, but today when I turned on the machine, again I got the dreaded "ENCO" encoder error.

So, for the third time in a month or so, I opened up the side panel, and yet again the same two fuses were burnt out. Not a clue why this is happening. Have a call into Felder tech support, but pretty frustrating. Went and ordered another 10 fuses from McMaster-Carr.

[Alan Lightstone]

Felder tech support finally called back. After going over the fuse situation in detail, he determined that the fuses I used to replace them were fast acting instead of slow acting. Now McMaster-Carr only has 1/2 amp slow acting fuses in the correct size, not 0.4 amp. Hoping that's not an issue.

Regarding the planer not producing flat, parallel surfaces, he was stressing that I needed to take off the chain and get all the sprockets totally lined up. I told him that since it took 3 people working hard to get the chain on, and the chain loosening mechanism didn't do anything, that there was no way I was going to remove the chain again. He suggested getting their repair team over to fix it. $500 plus labor charges, and they'll get to me whenever they happen to be in my area. Pretty darn unlikely I'll take that route.

So I ordered the Oneway gauge, and I'll try loosening the white flanges to see if I get closer. He was saying that 0.04" was acceptable, and 0.01" would be optimal. Considering that I received the machine and it produced bang-on flat pieces for several years, 0.04" seems pretty unacceptable. My wide-belt produces 0.01" or better consistently.

[Brian Holcombe]

Did you find the master link?

[Alan Lightstone]

Did you find the master link?
Haven't looked yet. Been too busy on other projects. But on my to-do list. Waiting on the Oneway gauge arrival.

[Greg Quenneville]

The info the tech gave you is suspect. 0.01” is still 0.25mm which is too much. Also…the original fuses that started this adventure of yours were slow blow, were they not?

Greg

[Alan Lightstone]

The info the tech gave you is suspect. 0.01” is still 0.25mm which is too much. Also…the original fuses that started this adventure of yours were slow blow, were they not?

Greg
Tech was unsure, but eventually decided that they were. Looking at the fuse next to it, he was "sorta" sure that they were slow blow. I'm suspect as McMaster-Carr doesn't sell any that size in 400ma /250V rating.

[Greg Quenneville]

Maybe try Mouser or RS components?

[Alan Lightstone]

Thanks, Greg. Mouser had them. Well, I'll have a few extras from McMaster-Carr, but a drop in the bucket for this scenario.

[Alan Lightstone]

So, more work today. I tried many combinations of loosening and tightening those white clamp rings. I eventually got the machine to produce a board with a 0.1-0.2 mm deviation in thickness from left to right over 120mm width, or 0.3mm/200mm per those machine tolerances that were posted by Greg: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?299883-Woodworking-Machine-Tolerances
That translates to 0.25-0.5 mm/300 mm width of the board. Not up to snuff for those guidelines, but the board was off by only 0.01 inches across its width. That's the thickness I change per run on my wide-belt sander, so basically one run through should level it out. Not perfect, but certainly getting much better.

Of note, after doing that, the Oneway Multi-gauge arrived at the house. I

Looking at the chain, I cannot find a master link. That doesn't mean there isn't one, just that I am unable to locate it. It may be hidden by the motor bracket, or I'm just not seeing it. Not worth it to me to remove the chain to look for it.

So at this point, I'll measure the distances between sides of the table and the cutterhead, but don't think I'll be able to modify it without removing the chain and rotating the brackets.

Not sure it's worth a ~$700 service call from Felder, so I may have to just cut my losses here.

Waiting on the slow blow fuses, and I'll swap them in too.

Truly haven't enjoyed a single minute of this ordeal. And if the fuses keep blowing, it's not over. And the machine still isn't calibrated perfectly as I had received it.

[Greg Quenneville]

I feel for you Alan. At some point you expect that all the money we spend on these high end name brands will pay off in solid, accurate and trouble-free machines. And it doesn’t. And then we have to learn one-time-only machine repair techniques on top of everything else. All those great expectations turn into just one more damned thing.

Anyway…I hope the electrical issues get sorted easily, and that you can use the new Oneway to dial the machine it to your satisfaction.

Greg

[Kevin Jenness]

I tried many combinations of loosening and tightening those white clamp rings.

Do the white rings in fact turn independently of the bolted metal flanges? If so you ought to be able to get the bed dialed in better using the multi-gauge.

I too feel your pain, although I have mainly bought used equipment and consider each piece a kit to be tuned up. It's too bad that Felder support is so lacking. Good luck.

[Alan Lightstone]

Do the white rings in fact turn independently of the bolted metal flanges? If so you ought to be able to get the bed dialed in better using the multi-gauge.

I too feel your pain, although I have mainly bought used equipment and consider each piece a kit to be tuned up. It's too bad that Felder support is so lacking. Good luck.
I don't believe that the white rings move independently. There is something underneath that it needs to fit into, so while it turns, you have to line it up with the bolted metal flange beneath it. So essentially, no.

I did have one new thought (Perhaps not so new. Kevin suggested it many posts ago). I just used the Oneway Multi-gauge. The right side of the table is 0.022" or 0.55 mm higher than the left side over the 500mm length of the (if I'm reading the Oneway correctly) when measured from the table to the cutterhead. So more than the 0.1mm/300mm accuracy goal that was posted earlier.

Left side of table:
488485

Right Side of Table:
488486

Could I add 3 shims around the bottom of each of the 2 left sided bolted flanges to raise the left side 0.02" or better yet 0.022 inches? Any reason why that wouldn't work?

Here's what those flanges look like again:
488487

[Brian Holcombe]

Owning machines means fixing machines. Reason I started buying older machines is that I know I’m going to repair them anyways and simpler electronics is appealing sometimes. I’ve taken apart all the machines I own, at this point, to repair some aspect or another. Just something you come to terms with sooner or later.

I suspect the one way gauge will be illuminating. I think .003” from side to side is fine but I’d probably shoot for .001”.

[Kevin Jenness]

Could I add 3 shims around the bottom of each of the 2 left sided bolted flanges to raise the left side 0.02" or better yet 0.022 inches? Any reason why that wouldn't work?

Here's what those flanges look like again:
488487

I think you could do that. I would try to lift up the top steel collar to see how the threaded plastic piece interfaces with the collars and bolts, but that might open up a can of worms. It seems like a hokey system with plastic threads and no easy way to fine tune the table but what do I know.

I'm in Brian's corner, but when you buy a new machine it would be nice to just have it work or at least have a tech on the line who actually has laid hands on one.

[Alan Lightstone]

Hopefully I can post this link. I was sent an interesting video by a member here who found a woodworker having encoder issues with his Felder AD 951 jointer/planer and replaced the motor. Looks to be pretty similar design to my D951. His chain also fell off, and he was also confused by the chain tensioner not seeming to do anything. Fortunately for him, he realized that he had to get the sprockets aligned before replacing the chain (and seemed to have no difficulty replacing the chain, as opposed to my situation). But it shows the issues visually of how this machine is designed and repair issues.

Youtube: MW Shoptalk Felder AD951 Planer Rise and fall motor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5myJEhiCQTo

(Moderators: If adding this link isn't allowed, please delete it and people can just search the above Youtube name to find it.)

[Brian Holcombe]

I agree, especially the mid range if machines where they’re a sizable investment. My jointer/planer had the motor brake die within a few months. SCM did send a new motor by air from Italy to get me back up and running, that was cool. Last year the bearings in one of the idler sprockets disintegrated. I replaced the sprocket with their part but sourced my own bearings and replaced the plain bolt it was riding on with a shoulder bolt.

Ive had more luck with older heavier machines, they just run as they were built for years of service in environments where they will be run full time. There are bearings in machines in my shop that are 60 years old and still running quietly, not disintegrating after 4-5 years.

[Alan Lightstone]

Yeah, I've had a bad taste in my mouth over this whole endeavor. I spend a lot of money on 3 expensive Felder machines. Their tech support representatives, when my planer started having issues were unfamiliar with the machine, after waiting days for a call back. He had me replace the motor for about $500 with shipping, when all that was really necessary was replacing two fuses for about $5. Then after being quoted a crazy amount for them to get a tech to me in a timely fashion, it took 3 people to reinstall the replacement motor. And they would not take back the unnecessary expensive motor that they sold me.

I've been seriously considering buying a Hammer edge sander (though no clue where I could fit it), but having real second thoughts here due to tech support. So sad. Their sales support a few years ago was fantastic.

[Brian Holcombe]

It is not easy diagnosing an issue from a distance. We have the benefit of hindsight, but I could see why one might skip over the fuses.

I spent a bunch of time one day chasing down in an issue with Omga chopsaw, The motor wouldn’t start but I had power at the motor (or so I thought). So I check the motor out, then start testing all of the capacitors in the phase converter for capacitance. After which I test the line, then scratch my head a bit
and keep checking parts until I discover that the switch died and when a switch on an Omga dies it can just drop off one leg. I simply assumed a dead switch would be dead across all the terminals. A new switch got me back up and running but only after I tested every single item in the system.

Now, if I called a tech I might say, hey I have power at the motor, motor must be dead and one could see that how the problem is presented might frame how one approaches solving it. A super experienced tech might know how the switch dies and presents that way.

So, all that to say I think one can forgive a tech working at a distance for solving things imperfectly. They have two tools at their disposal, the customers ability to test and diagnose and the ability to throw parts at it. The customer is a woodworker, not a machine tech, so they’re working with imperfect information and the customer likely being frustrated by the issue.

[Jerry Bruette]

I'd cut that chain off, take it to an industrial supply house get the replacement chain with master link. Calibrate the machine by turning the rods and put the new chain on. I can't believe there's no master link in the chain.

I know you had a nightmare of a time putting the new motor in with three sets of hands but trust me with a master link in the chain it's a one person job. The hardest part would be not letting the rods turn while putting the chain on.

Wish you lived around the corner, I'd come and do it for you. Might cost a cold beverage though.

[Alan Lightstone]

So messed around with shims. Not as easy to do as I thought, but doable.

After shimming up the left side with 0.01" shims, the Oneway measured 0.0750" on the left side and 0.0660" on the right side from the table to the cutterhead. So the table was 0.009" lower on the left side.

The resulting measurement in metric was 0.23 mm difference over 470mm width, or an error of 0.015mm over 300mm. More than the 0.01mm difference that Greg's reference said should be the maximum. FWIW.

Running a board through it, the difference in the back of the board was 0.004" over 12" width on the front, and 0.009" across the back. Not sure why they should be different, but they were.

Think I'm going to live with this for a while. Certainly not perfect by any measure, but considering the typical run change of my wide-belt sander routine is 0.01", it's probably just a single pass through the wide belt sander to fix it.

Also put in the slow-blow fuses. Time will tell if they will fix the problem.