Destroying family lore

[Roger Feeley]

With recent advances in geneolical research and dna analysis, some of our best family stories have been debunked. Here are some examples.

Myth: my wife is descended from Bob Womack, the fellow that discovered the Cripple Creek gold and subsequently lost the claim in a poker game.
Fact: Wrong Womack

Myth: My family tree goes back to Francis Hacker, a close aid to Oliver Cromwell and the guy who signed the death warrant for Charles I.
Fact: The story is true but, again, no family connection.

Myth: my wife’s great great grandfather murdered his wife with strychnine. She was bed-ridden and knew she was being poisoned. There is a spoon with her teeth marks.
Fact: She took the strychnine herself in a suicide. Her husband was kind of a rat but not a murderer.

Myth: My mother in law was born in Oklahoma and claimed have some Cherokee blood, enough for some ancestor to be eligible for some sort of land grant. The ancestor declined, not wanting to admit to Indian blood. That land is some of the best oil producing land….
Fact: My wife did 23 And Me and it found no Indian ancestry. It is interesting that our story is exactly the same one that Elizabeth Warren was told. I’ve read that half of Oklahoma claims Native American ancestry.

Maybe Myth: my great*5 grandfather was a guest of Benedict Arnold when the general found out that his British contact had been captured. Arnold excused himself and went on the lamb.
Truth: William Burnet is my ancestor. He was stationed at West Point where Arnold was in command. Being an officer (surgeon), he socialized regularly with Arnold. The problem is that every account of that morning traces back to Burnets son so it’s a single source.

crap! I really liked all those stories.

[Tom M King]

It seems that almost all history has been modified by the person telling/writing it. The mark of a good historian is to be able to make it up on the fly. I found the same sort of thing in my ancestry.

[Stan Calow]

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.


But I think its a good idea to write down that family history so you can pass on good information to future generations.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

A very proud Irish friend had his genetic ancestry analyzed. Turns out he is not Irish at all but he does have some Native American genetics. He has channeled his enthusiasm into his American side.

[Jim Barkelew]

My grandmother thought she was related to President Harrison. 10 minutes on the internet showed no connection. However one 19th century relative is more and more interesting the more we learn about him. A few years ago we were able to locate and visit his grave to say hello.

Jim

[Charlie Velasquez]

My brothers and I grew up in the “free love” 60’s and 70’s and 80’s. DNA testing revealed a few nieces and nephews I did not know I had.

[Jim Becker]

Two of these in my own Ancestry investigations.

MYTH: Mother related to a signer of the Declaration of Independence
Truth: Correct name, correct time frame; but wrong individual

MYTH: At least one native American relative.
Truth: No DNA evidence of this

That said, actual interesting DNA connections including to Catherine of Aragon and her daughter who eventually became Queen Mary, via her father, a kind of Spain. Also my mother and father are "technically" related, but only back at the time of the Emperors of the Holy Roman Empire.

Other interesting things include unknown relatives because of common human behavior, such as infidelity :) as well as folks in the tree that technically are not blood relatives because of undocumented adoption, etc.

[Roger Feeley]

In researching William Burnet, I discovered that this was truly the land of opportunity. One son, Jacob, helped found the city of Cincinnati, Ohio. Another son was the first president (appointed) of the republic of Texas. It seemed that if you had more than two brain cells to rub together, you got tapped for the big jobs.

[Tom M King]

If you have a Gateway Ancestor, as Jim must have going back to Catherine of Aragon by way of Mary, Wife of Henry VIII (I believe her only surviving child that had offspring) the branches become endless. I have such an Ancestor, and traced by Y chromosome (top line on a family tree) line all the way back through the Romans. No Henry past the Fifth though, so I guess there is some possibility Jim and I are not related. I am a descendant of Anne Boleyn's Mother, though, so not too far removed.

I put 6300 ancestors on my tree until I finally got tired of it, and figured out it was endless. I get emails every so often from someone asking questions about Ancestors we share.

I expect sometime in the not too distant future you will be able to type in a couple of generations, and it all will show up. That won't do Ancestry outfits good in monthly subscriptions though.

Along the way, I also found out a lot of the told history of our family was incorrect, even if it had been written down in a Bible sometime. I always remember Churchill said that history would be kind to him because he was going to write it.

https://historyofyesterday.com/we-all-descend-from-charlemagne-f7eeff988b52

[Myk Rian]

23andme says I'm related to Jesse James.

That explains a lot of things.

[Bill Dufour]

We just say this guy had the same last name. No relation but still nice work. He is also no relation to the founder of the red cross, nor the Yacht maker. I bought my wife some "Dufour" tennis shoes at grocery outlet but they were too small so they went to my niece.
Bill Dufour

https://www.scenicwallpaper.com/preservation-at-the-lindens-virginia

[Kev Williams]

Many years ago, like 40 or so-?, There was some documentary I was watching, don't remember exactly what it was about but I distinctly remember at the end, the host declared that no matter how far we go back, none of us are 'farther apart' than 22nd cousins...

Doing a little googling some guy claims that he and most Icelanders are "something like" the 28th cousin of Queen Elizabeth II, and that anyone who can document ancestry back to the prophet Mohamed may be 40th cousins to the queen...

? I have no idea :)

As for my lineage, I did some checking a few years ago, only got as far back as around the great-great-great grandparents times-- weirdest thing I found was that there must've been some boring times in those days, because the common theme I found was HUGE families- like 10 to 14 kids was about average! (My dad was one of 9, mom one of 5, [I'm one of 5] and it just went up from there!) Haven't done much research since...

[Derek Meyer]

My maternal grandmother's maiden name was Hughes, and she alway claimed to be related to Howard Hughes, but she had no direct proof - only claims by others in her family of the same thing. We never researched the geneology to see if we could prove/disprove her claim.

[Ronald Blue]

My uncle spent a lot of time researching our ancestry. Rather interesting as far as our history here. Settled in Sussex county New Jersey in the 1600's and had a good sized acreage. 600+ Later moved to Romney, West Virginia on the West bank of the Potomac. The homestead was still part of the family until the 1950's. There is a reunion in the area every other year but I don't know anyone who has attended. As for whether there are any significant connections in the lineage I have no idea.

[Jim Becker]

As for my lineage, I did some checking a few years ago, only got as far back as around the great-great-great grandparents times-- weirdest thing I found was that there must've been some boring times in those days, because the common theme I found was HUGE families- like 10 to 14 kids was about average! (My dad was one of 9, mom one of 5, [I'm one of 5] and it just went up from there!) Haven't done much research since...

True dat. Back only about two generations in my tree the typical family size really was pretty amazing as you note. But even my parents' came from families that were larger than is often typical today with 5 and 6 kids respectively with my dad and my mom. Going back several more generations, it appears that it wasn't unusual for there to be multiple female spouses because of so many women dying in childbirth and each one was cranking out the kids during their life tenure. This was particularly true with quite a few of the Germanic DNA relatives in my tree.

[Lee Schierer]

With all the wars and major migrations of people because of those wars as well as famines and disease, I am very skeptical of any source claiming to identify where your ancestors came from. Just look at what happened in Europe recently with millions of people moving from one country to another. The Spanish Armada ran into a storm off the coast of Ireland and many sailors ended up on the beach and a lot of them that lived never went back to Spain.

[Stan Calow]

More kids = more workers on the farm. Those that survived childhood diseases anyway.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

You folks are industrious!
My cousin in Seattle does the family tree thing, but I've never really been interested. My paternal grandmother told my dad once we were related to King David. I have no idea how she figured it out.
Unfortunately, I'm a strong believer in the idea that DNA testing which can be accessed by "Agencies" whether legally or otherwise are much like having to carry ID cards.
No, I saw what happened to my family in Europe in the '30s. I'll keep away.

[Curt Harms]

More kids = more workers on the farm. Those that survived childhood diseases anyway.

I wonder how many live births made it to adulthood in those times.

[Jim Becker]

With all the wars and major migrations of people because of those wars as well as famines and disease, I am very skeptical of any source claiming to identify where your ancestors came from. Just look at what happened in Europe recently with millions of people moving from one country to another. The Spanish Armada ran into a storm off the coast of Ireland and many sailors ended up on the beach and a lot of them that lived never went back to Spain.
That movement is actually pretty well documented by the DNA trail, Lee. Ancestry dot com, for example, even provides a migration map. The DNA trail combined with the huge collective participation is pretty amazing. Yes, there will always be some missing information...nature of the beast. Prior to the DNA tracing becoming pretty mainstream it was all about family records which, as this thread illustrates, could fall victim more often to myths and evolving stories.

[Bill Dufour]

Those DNA testing sites have opened up their database to law enforcement and found relatives of wanted criminals. Then they looked closer at their relatives and found the crooks.
Bill D.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/01/genetic-genealogy-race/616171/

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

1.GGGGGGGGF Gearhardt was thrown out of his his hometown in Germany for being a Quaker. Well, he was thrown out, but we aren't sure if he was GGGGGGGGGF or Great GGGGGG uncle
2.GGGGGGGGF Gearhardt petitioned the Philadelphia Colonial Counsel to out law slavery in the colony. Yep he did, but don't know whether a grandfather or uncle.
3.GGGGF Martin married a Moravian Indian near Bethlehem, PA. Well, several descendants have had DNA done and no indigenous native genes show up.,, BUT, I have a family portrait taken in the 1870's. She and most of the kids have darker complexions and high cheek bones.
4. GGGF Abraham had 23 children with the same wife TRUE, I have nearly 1100 3rd cousins.
5. GF Louis had been married before he met grandma. Oh yeah, he sure was, twice, he also had 2 other children before he met grandma that apparently she never found out about.
6. GGGF Franklin, ran away from home, toured the west and married a Sioux Indian Woman. Nope, he never left the east, his wife worked as a toll taker on toll bridge near his home when he met her.
7. GGGGGF Henry, left Pennsylvania in 1784 to go to Ohio to collect on land rewarded to Revolutionary soldiers. Nope, he was in the Royalist militia and was so hated after the war, that he had to leave. First he went to Canada, but couldn't stand the cold there.
8. We come from a long line of Germans. Well no not really, an eighth of them came from Holland, and half came from Alsace, now part of France. One eighth came from Switzerland.
9. As it turns out, the original Hilbert got on board the ship to America as a single man. He got off married with 3 adopted children. His wife's first husband died a few days after the ship left Europe.

[Dwayne Watt]

I have a mostly northern European ancestry with a known, traceable, and relatively recent migration lineage from Ireland, Scotland, England, Norway, and Sweden. However, DNA says I am 88% Scandinavian and barely Scottish or Irish which tells me the known Scottish ancestors (NE coastal area) and possibly the Irish were mostly Viking offspring. However, using a combination of a solid DNA connection and the Latter Day Saints genealogy database, I have recently traced my English roots back 11 direct generations. That fellow was born somewhere around 1600 while his son was born 1627. I was really amazed about that informational finding (not via DNA directy, but via a string of church records of marriages and baptisms). Similarly, those same Vikings apparently found love in parts of Africa and brought it home because there is a low percent of northern African and Nigerian DNA mingled within. I find the DNA work intriguing because it does not change who anyone is, but can affect who they think their ancestors were.

[Tom M King]

Yes, of course. There were major invasions of Vikings into England. They stayed a long time, including in some ruling rolls, and controlled large pieces of territory. Royal blood is well mixed with Viking blood.

[Bill Dufour]

My Mom was born in 1920. She said as a child she was told the ideal family had four children. Two to replace the parents, one to increase the population, and one to die.
Bill D

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Some of the migrations through Europe and across some long distances were quite amazing. At one point a Germanic group of mostly lumberman needed a place to settle. A Catholic Bishop, invited them to move to northern Italy to a mountainous sparsely populated area there. They continued there with their German language and customs until the Italian Government outlawed the speaking of German. When the Canton of Bern decreed that all Mennonites must leave the jurisdiction or face death, thousands of Mennonites left and scattered up and down the rivers. Some to the Palatine area of Germany, some to Holland, and even some to Eastern Europe and Russia. They went wherever they were permitted to settle.

Moors took over much of the iberian penninsula and held it for many centuries. Not until the 1400' s were they expelled.

Turks and Ottoman armies made several invasions of Eastern Europe taking over vast territories, even if only for a few years or decades. They were repulsed many times, one of the noted events was the break in the Siege of Vienna in September 11, 1683. (some disagree as to the date and claim the 12th) When the Turk army was routed and decimated as it retreated back toward Turkey. Each time the invading armies left children in their aftermath.

The Crusades themselves caused a large shift of Northern European genes into the middle east and to a much lesser extend brought genes from the middle east back to Northern Europe.

Hannibal's army spent a long time going over the Alps to attack Rome. His Army left north African genes in it's wake. Rome itself brought thousands of people from the extreme reaches of it's empire back to the capital where they were not celibate.

Constant bickering between England and France for a thousand years, spread genes back and forth across the channel.

Considering all of the population movement that occurred, it is surprising that the migrations can be traced as clearly as they can.

[Stan Calow]

That's why I think the testing services that report your ancestry by countries are BS. Its not like your genes have little flags in them. Or that countries like Germany and Italy didnt really exist as countries before the 1870s, as well as borders changing all the time. When you see those commercials that say ". . . 75% Eastern European . . . " - what the heck does that even mean? So I wonder what they really can measure and guess. I'm just assuming its basing a analysis on your data and their database of other people who've tested, and statistically determined that xx% of people with similar genes live in a certain place.

Anyone have a better understanding?

[Jim Becker]

Considering all of the population movement that occurred, it is surprising that the migrations can be traced as clearly as they can.
True, but with DNA in the picture, there are a lot of markers that show up that help trace the movements as folks moved, married/procreated with locals, etc. It's a richer environment scientifically at this point because of that.

Stan, reporting merely by "country" is in deed not the best thing, although country names do have a point of reference that helps folks picture geography based on current boundaries. Ancestry does use the current country labels, but from a mapping perspective, shows things more broadly. At the same time, when you dive in deeper, they can identify and isolate more granular areas because of certain DNA markers that permit that. Again, the point of reference for visualization might include current country names, but that's not how the underlying data is organized and analyzed. Here's an example of my high-level DNA map ... something that's constantly changing and being tweaked over time. (Please note this is not as detailed as it normally would be in the text descriptions because I currently have my subscription suspended due to lack of time to work further on the tree)

483427

[Stan Calow]

Thanks Jim, that is helpful, and confirms some of my suspicions. It's just at odds with the way people typically think and speak of their ancestry. And Americans typically have trouble distinguishing political boundaries versus ethnic and cultural groupings. The difference between where people come from, and what their genetics are, is too complicated to boil down to what the commercials for these services seem to project.

[Jim Becker]

Exactly, San...ethnic/genetic differences don't honor boundaries and the latter change many times over the millenia.

[Mike Henderson]

I wonder how many live births made it to adulthood in those times.

From some research I've done, prior to the 19th century, about 40% of children never lived to their 16th birthday. Almost all deaths from disease. That's from memory - I don't have the data in front of me right now. [Here's one source (https://radicaldeathstudies.com/2019/08/20/child-death-and-parental-mourning-in-the-middle-ages/).]

And then, of course, you had the Black Deaths in Europe which wiped out a significant portion of the population, young and old (estimates range from 30% to 60% of the European population).

Mike

[Tom M King]

One of the old houses I work on was owned by a family that had 10 children before 1800. Four lived to be adults. I expect that was worse than typical, but one of the main reasons our life expectancy today is better than even early in the 20th Century is the difference in infant mortality.

My Mother, who is now 106, had one Ancestor in 1770 that died when he was 97. The wagon he was driving down a mountain lost control, and rolled over on him. He was by himself.

[Michael Weber]

I have little interest in my genealogy. I would however love to know more of the story of my paternal grandfathers family who died when I was a child. He was sent alone to the US by his family in 1878 at the age of 14 to avoid his induction into the Prussian army. That was a brutal existence and more or less a death sentence. I can’t imagine arriving in NYC alone at 14 and would like to know his thoughts. I have a few facts about him but nothing about his family. I was told in the 1970’s by an Uncle who was an amateur genealogist and had tried to trace his family that all the wars had destroyed any records that might have existed. Other than that I just accept the probable fact my ancestors were plain folks doing the best they could. I did do the DNA thing which showed a mostly Northern European heritage and I have the natural immunity to smallpox to prove it :)

[Rollie Meyers]

While I have no personal experience DNA testing has exposed secrets that were thought to be forgotten.