Roughing Gouge and Oval Skew - Sharpening Technique Question

[Jason Lester]

I recently purchased a lathe to speed up production of chair parts. I've been shaping them by hand up until this point. The only tools I bought so far are the roughing gouge, skew, and bedan. Those are all I really need for the rungs and legs I'm making. I've been turning practice rungs and legs all week and am starting to get the hang of it. I have a full speed 8" grinder with 180 and 600 wheels from Woodturning Wonders along with the Wolverine setup. I do fine sharpening the bedan, OK sharpening the gouge, and terrible sharpening the skew.

On the gouge, my understanding is that the wings and the center should all be even. The problem I'm having is that the center always ends up shorter than the wings. I flattened it back up today and ground the bevel back in, and ended up back with the center being shorter than the wings. It seems to cut fine for the most part, but I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I think I need to spend more time with the wings on the wheel, would that be right? With my high speed grinder, it's really tough to keep from changing the color of the wings, but I think that's OK with HSS?

The skew always seems to end up almost blunted somehow. It will cut and leaves a smooth surface, but I mostly get dust, not shavings like I've seen in the videos I've watched. It makes me think my bevel is too narrow making the cutting angle too sharp, but I'm just not sure. It's a 3/4" oval skew.

Thanks, Jason

[Dave Fritz]

I grind my roughing gouge with the ends lower than the middle. It avoids a mistaken catch for me and when using the sides I can get a really nice finish. I found an oval skew is harder to hold even on the platform than a flat one. My grinder is a slow speed grinder and am using CBN wheels. A light touch and it doesn't take much to get a sharp edge once you've gotten the shape you want. Experience is a good teacher.

[Richard Coers]

Are you using the skew up near the top of the spindle almost like a hand plane, or using it on center in the front like a scraper? When teaching a class at Woodcraft, a student kept telling me he would rather use his skew when making beads. I didn't see that skill in his early attempts with a spindle gouge, but told him go ahead. He laid it flat on the rest and used it like a scraper. It was made clear right then!

[Reed Gray]

Look up a guy on You Tube, Woodturner 21. He is a skew master. I struggle with the skew, even after almost 30 years of turning. Most of what I turn is bowls. The skew is one tool that needs to be stropped. You can pick up some black 'polishing' compound at most big box stores and that will do the trick. Sharpening the skew, even on 1200 grit diamond stones will still leave a burr, even with the lightest touch. You can put the compound on leather scrap if you have some or even on some MDF or plywood.

robo hippy

[Richard Dooling]

Thanks Reed I've not seen Woodturner 21 before and it's pretty humbling. Like a lot of turners I also struggle with the skew and I've not seen anyone use one quite like this - especially in cutting coves. I also didn't realize how important stropping is with the skew.


Look up a guy on You Tube, Woodturner 21. He is a skew master. I struggle with the skew, even after almost 30 years of turning. Most of what I turn is bowls. The skew is one tool that needs to be stropped. You can pick up some black 'polishing' compound at most big box stores and that will do the trick. Sharpening the skew, even on 1200 grit diamond stones will still leave a burr, even with the lightest touch. You can put the compound on leather scrap if you have some or even on some MDF or plywood.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

Do you belong to a club or know someone with lathe expertise? I would really help to have someone work with you. It’s hard to guess what you’re doing wrong with the skew but one minute watching would make things clear. Probably best to sharpen it with an included angle of 30 - 40 deg. This will make fairly long bevels. When sharp you should easily be able to shave arm hair.

Sharpening an oval skew correctly can be trickier than a flat-sided skew. Best to let someone show you. I know there are jigs available but I prefer to sharpen all skews by hand using a flat tool test. (I keep skews from 1/4” to 1-1/4”, flat, oval, and round. I sharpen with a 600grit cbn wheel, remove the burr, and strop with some polishing compound rubbed into the rough side of a piece of MDF resawn on the bandsaw. I also use this to renew the edge a couple of times before going back to the grinder. Remember, keep it shaving sharp. If it won’t make thin shaving while peeling or planing you’re doing something wrong.

Also, sharpen the roughing gouge on a flat tool rest. I use 600 grit cbn for that too. If the wings are too long just spend more time there. Again, fine a mentor with experience, that can save you a lot of frustration.

JKJ

[Richard Coers]

You do want your skew as sharp as a hand plane. I use a 3000 water stone on mine. I don't like stropping since I think you don't keep as flat of surface as you get from a stone.

[Jason Lester]

Thanks for the tips. I'm taking a class in August, so hopefully that will help. There's a club nearby that I'm going to check out too. I'm in a pretty rural area.

[John K Jordan]

Thanks for the tips. I'm taking a class in August, so hopefully that will help. There's a club nearby that I'm going to check out too. I'm in a pretty rural area.

You can check the AAW web site for chapter clubs. Maybe there is one that’s not too far.
https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturner/AAWConnects/AAW-Connects.aspx

[Reed Gray]

One very memorable demonstration I saw was Eric Lofstrom. He started the demo by taking his skew and tapping it on the lathe bed, much to the horror of the audience. He then took it to a 60 grit CBN wheel, sharpened it, and then stropped it on a piece of leather with some of the black 'polishing' stick stuff rubbed on the leather. My sources say it is about 800 grit. He then shaved the hair off of his arm in one stroke. I found that with a 1000 grit CBN wheel, I still got a burr from sharpening, even with a very light touch. Since I have been focusing on bench plane blades and chisels lately, I have noticed I still have a burr up to 8000 grit. This is why I strop. DMT diamond lapping compound in grits from 4000 to 15000 grit. Makes a huge difference. I did notice with the 1000 grit CBN wheel that the skew would cut better in one direction than the other, and the other side was the one that still had a burr. If you can feel a burr with your thumb, then it needs to come off. I bought my 30 year old Tormek out of retirement for stropping my skews. It won't change the profile, but it will change the way it cuts.

One interesting thing to me about the Woodturner 21 and his skews is that they are ground maybe 60 to 70 degrees across the top rather than most of us who use a steeper angle than that. I may have to try that some time. Also an excellent video is the one by Allan Batty, Stuart's late great dad. Very good. Richard Raffen also has one that he did for Fine Woodworking. Starts off with a catch that still makes me jump....

robo hippy

[Neil Strong]

On the gouge, my understanding is that the wings and the center should all be even. The problem I'm having is that the center always ends up shorter than the wings. I flattened it back up today and ground the bevel back in, and ended up back with the center being shorter than the wings. It seems to cut fine for the most part, but I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I think I need to spend more time with the wings on the wheel, would that be right? With my high speed grinder, it's really tough to keep from changing the color of the wings, but I think that's OK with HSS?



You can't get enough temperature off a bench grinder to spoil the temper in HSS. Any colour change is just cosmetic.

The wings on my SRG have crept back over the years... you can then do some planing cuts with those wings (without having to lift your elbow so high :-) before moving onto the skew.

483409


Ground straight across or slightly swept back, but I would never have the wing tips protruding like you describe. More time always needs to be spent on the wings when grinding any gouge.

[Brian Deakin]

woodturner21 also has a Instagram site on which there are a number of short videos

https://www.instagram.com/stevethewoodturner/?hl=en

The skew he uses is an Ashley Iles 1 inch with rounded edges

[Prashun Patel]

My SRG doesn't have swept back wings by design. It's never been an issue. I used to sharpen on a v arm until I learned the hard way why this is dangerous. I now sharpen on a flat tool rest.

[Neil Strong]

My SRG doesn't have swept back wings by design. It's never been an issue. I used to sharpen on a v arm until I learned the hard way why this is dangerous. I now sharpen on a flat tool rest.

Prashun, it might be helpful for others if you could explain the dangers of using a V-arm to sharpen a SRG.

Never used one myself and have always sharpened my SRGs freehand on a platform.

Of course, having a straight across grind on your SRG is the traditional grind for that tool and perfectly fine for that purpose. The point I was making in my previous post was that straight across or slightly swept back are both OK, but not with the wing tips proud as they would be a catch waiting to happen.

BTW, I have a turning mate who has made a good proportion of his living from fine detailed spindle turning and his SRGs look very similar to mine. I'm not recommending anyone use that grind, just passing that information on for what it is worth.

[Edward Weber]

Prashun, it might be helpful for others if you could explain the dangers of using a V-arm to sharpen a SRG.

Never used one myself and have always sharpened my SRGs freehand on a platform.



The main reason is that there is no support under the steel. With a tool anchored in the V arm and only the bevel touching the wheel, any imperfection in the wheel can be a dangerous dig in of the tool. It is easy to damage the tool or the wheel or both if rotated too far.
CBN wheels don't have that issue, mostly happens on friable wheels.
The other thing is that a SRG's bevel are not always in-line with the center of the handle. When rotating the tool, the bevel angle changes.
Just my two cents.

[Prashun Patel]

The issue for me was that repeated grindings with the v arm set at one place caused the bevel to contact imperceptibly lower each time. It’s fine at first when I was well above center.

But eventually my bevel contacted close enough to center that the wheel caught the tip and slammed the tool down. Scared me more than it hurt, but I was lucky.

Tool rest is better.

[Jason Lester]

My Woodturners Wonders CBN wheels came with a warning not to use the V arm for SRGs. I guess because of that.

[Neil Strong]

The main reason is that there is no support under the steel. With a tool anchored in the V arm and only the bevel touching the wheel, any imperfection in the wheel can be a dangerous dig in of the tool. It is easy to damage the tool or the wheel or both if rotated too far.
CBN wheels don't have that issue, mostly happens on friable wheels.
The other thing is that a SRG's bevel are not always in-line with the center of the handle. When rotating the tool, the bevel angle changes.


This is the [Thanks Button], which I would press if this forum software had it... for your explanation, which all seems logical to me and particularly if sharpening on friable wheels.

Jason, I can also see that there might be a similar issue, if not quite to the same degree with CBN wheels... ie., if the tip of the tool gets caught between the wheel and whatever is holding the back end of the tool in position. That could happen at very low bevel tip angles that are very close to the tangent of the wheel and would apply more to V-arms that are not going to release the back end of the tool. A motor stall, bent slide arm and possibly even a bent grinding wheel shaft might be the outcome of such a jam.

[Prashun Patel]

It can happen even on a wheel without imperfections like a cbn too.

[Neil Strong]

It can happen even on a wheel without imperfections like a cbn too.

Agreed, Prashun, I added some extra words with an edit to my previous post, thanks.

[John K Jordan]

It can happen even on a wheel without imperfections like a cbn too.

I’ve seen the scar in a CBN wheel from a spindle roughing gouge being sharpened in a v-arm. The geometry of the jig, wheel, and tool handle and bevel would be factors.

I’m glad it’s easy to sharpen the SRG safely with a simple angled platform.

[Neil Strong]

I’ve seen the scar in a CBN wheel from a spindle roughing gouge being sharpened in a v-arm. The geometry of the jig, wheel, and tool handle and bevel would be factors.

I’m glad it’s easy to sharpen the SRG safely with a simple angled platform.



This is the [Thanks Button], which I would press if this forum software had it...

[Brian Deakin]

Hi Reed
Please see attached video Steve the woodturner sharpening his skew

The Skew Steve uses is an Asley Illes skew which has rounded edges From memory I think the skew is 1"

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRQiSRPsFl9/?hl=en

If you click the arrow on the right in the short video it reveals a close up image of the skew

[Thomas Wilson80]

I don't strop my skews and I get excellent finishes with them (I do hone between sharpenings with a diamond card). Does stropping really add significant improvement? (trying to keep it simple as my tiny shop is already overflowing with tools that I "need" :D).
Tom

[Brian Deakin]

Steve the woodturner is a professional turner based in the Uk
Steve simply sharpens his skew on a 180 grit Cbn wheel by hand and achieves results we can only dream

[Neil Strong]

I don't do much spindle work nowadays, but when I do I never strop my skews. The difference between stropping and not is so minimal that any difference will be gone with the first grit of abrasive, anyway. Like many others, I do use a fine diamond card several times at the lathe to refresh the edge before returning to the bench grinder wheel.

But, I have been periodically stropping/buffing the flutes on my gouges since playing around with the unicorn method of sharpening, which was primarily developed (by David Weaver) for flatwork bench tools. I found it was of no discernible benefit on gouge bevels, but definitely worth doing on gouge flutes that are in many cases in need of some grinding and polishing to remove the milling/grinding tracks left in the flutes from manufacture. It is cheap to set up, very quick to do, only taking a few seconds on a loaded buffing wheel, and, if done every half doze sharpenings of the bevel, will keep the flute tip smooth with the added benefit of keeping it clean of any buildup.

[Paul Saffold]

Here are 2 more production turners from GB on https://www.instagram.com Their turning skill is phenomenal, not just with the skew. Both have short videos that they post often.

@davedalbywoodturning Dave uses a 5/8” round skew

@richard_findley Richard uses a 3/8” beading and parting tool as a skew even though he sharpens it straight across. It’s the angle the tool is presented to the wood that gives the skew cut.