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View Full Version : Guide issues on Felder bandsaw



Jonathan Jung
07-21-2022, 10:02 PM
I'm setting up my new-to-me FB 640 and am quite frustrated, honestly. So many poor fit and poor casting issues, as I'll explain in the other thread on this machine. For now...anyone can help out with the guides? I'm not as familiar with euro guides.

Lower guides

The lower guides didn't fit well in the frame, which explains why the previous owner didn't set them up well. The fit is too tight so the adjusting lock nuts on the side rollers jam on the frame. Any ideas? As they came on the machine, I can lower them only if I grind away at the silver aluminum body of the guides.

So I've flipped some of the brackets around, and it seems to work, but is still a bit odd. Is this normal?

before
483163
483164
now
483165
483166

Upper guides

is it to be expected to readjust the guides each time raising/lowering the guide post? At the top for full height cut, the guides are further to the front of the machine. So I have to adjust the assembly backwards. Also, it wants to twist, so I have to grab the whole guide post and hold it in the correct rotation while tightening the lock. Normal?

at full height
483167
at lower height
483168

general shot, I've got the guides about 1mm off the blade. I use a tensionmeter for the blade so blade wander isn't too often.

483169

Both guides, I cleaned up, the previous owner had probably used some lube with gummed, stuck the wheels, and wore into them. I smoothed them out a bit and they spin ok, not as slick or stictionless as a bearing, but smooth.

Tom Trees
07-21-2022, 10:54 PM
I've been trying to work out where the top wheel should be on my machine... seems to make little difference to me as of yet....
After doing some dressing experiments on the edges of worn tires, and seeing if I can get improved results with the new edges in regard to co-planer wheels,
experiments concerning mainly in regards to beam strength, but quiet running, less wear etc...
I have yet to make a blade tension indicator to progress further, and mess around again with things...

Sounds like your machine is running pretty well, if you can set your thrust guide back that far,
guessing you've seen what a good running saw of this size can achieve
well, at least expected with presumably a carbide tipped blade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBy7mCjQQ4Y
Or just a regular blade needing sharpening on a 700mm saw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kcjX2MzAGU

If I got half those results I'd be happy, and trying to achieve the best results possible.

In regards to the guidepost, it may be possible that the top wheel is set too deep into the cabinet?
Best take measurements if going at this beforehand, but sounds to me like this could fix that issue, as that 640 if fairly old is likely ACM's line of SNAC saws.

It would be interesting to know if you can place a beam directly over the wheel retaining bolt, or if the wheel protrudes from the cabinet making one unable to do so.
Might be worth seeing if some others saws might be set up the same,
Search this forum for "Papa Griggio 640, it may be the same machine.
I'm not sure there are many folks who've posted about these anywhere.
Possibly Laguna with some possible altercations, Griggio and Bridgewood, to name some other flavours of SNAC saws.

Would love to know where folks suggest the wheel depth to be at, or anything of the sorts.
Cheers
Tom


483171

Kevin Jenness
07-21-2022, 11:43 PM
It looks like the second arrangement of the lower guides works - maybe the previous owner mis-assembled them.

The upper guide post should travel parallel to the blade. Is there an adjustment in the post mount? There is on my MiniMax 16.

My guides were jammed up and scarred like yours when I bought the saw. I keep them lubed with Ballistol which doesn't seem to gum up like some oils. I prefer the Wright guides on my old Crescent saw but the new ones seem to work with some attention.

Derek Cohen
07-22-2022, 12:09 AM
Hi Jonathan

I have a Hammer N4400, which looks to have the same guides. Here are a couple of photos I took some time back - not sure what they were for (so ignore the arrows), but they may help evaluate how yours are to be set up.

Top:

https://i.postimg.cc/rsnms7F0/Guides-1.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/WpXt5q6N/Guides-2.jpg

Bottom:

https://i.postimg.cc/Z5Qhv0hn/3a.jpg

I added dust collection this way ...

https://i.postimg.cc/15JSPJCp/5a.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

Greg Quenneville
07-22-2022, 1:06 AM
1.The correct lower guide arrangement is as you have shown with the thrust wheel lower than the side wheels. To be honest, with a wide blade you may not even need the lower guides.

2. The guides do need adjustment when the height is moved due to misalignment of the mounting shaft compared to the blade tracking. Yes, the shaft can move, and yes, it seems crude because it is. That said, all of my saws have done that.

Jim Becker
07-22-2022, 10:37 AM
You've probably already done this, but back everything off to completely disengaged, deal with any assembly alignment that you feel is necessary and then carefully adjust the guides themselves. I honestly do this when I change bands, although I don't back things off a "yuge" amount. I can't comment about the orientation on the bottom guides, but hopefully the photos that Derek, etc., posted will be helpful to you. My MM16 uses similar guides but the mounts may be different.

Mike King
07-22-2022, 2:00 PM
Jonathan, if you wish to upgrade your guides to ceramic, a less expensive way to do it (rather than buying the Felder guides) is to order the ceramic guides from Laguna. They were an easy substitution on my FB510...

Mike

Jonathan Jung
07-23-2022, 12:04 PM
Thanks everyone for your time and replies. Good to know about fit.

What should these guides sound like when the blade is contacting them? Mine howl like a banshee. But maybe I'm just use to the quite of bearing guides. I assume there shouldn't be any sparks either...

Will ceramic guides be quieter than what I have? Felder doesn't offer ceramic to fit my machine, so I'll look at Laguna, thanks for the suggestion. However, I'd like to try to utilize what I have first.

Derek Cohen
07-23-2022, 12:15 PM
Jonathan, I have just changed a blade (from 1/2" to 1") and this necessitated resetting the guides. When this is done, there is no sound from the blade running past the guides (motor off).

I have considered replacing my original, standard steel guides with ceramic. I've have talked with friends who have done this. The consensus is that it is not worth the upgrade. In theory, the blades should run cooler. In reality, the cut is the same.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Kevin Jenness
07-23-2022, 1:23 PM
2. The guides do need adjustment when the height is moved due to misalignment of the mounting shaft compared to the blade tracking. Yes, the shaft can move, and yes, it seems crude because it is. That said, all of my saws have done that.

I'm glad to have never encountered that on the saws I have used (Crescent 36, two Delta 14s, SCMI 20, MiniMax 16). I would find it incredibly irritating, especially when constantly adjusting the guide height while prepping turning blanks. If there is an alignment adjustment built into the saw it would be worth tweaking.

Tom Trees
07-23-2022, 2:17 PM
I'm curious whether Greg tried adjusting wheel depth and it gave undesirable results,
or if it made little to no difference in the blades position in regards to being parallel with frame?

Tom

Greg Quenneville
07-23-2022, 3:53 PM
I didn’t adjust the wheel depth in the chassis since the blades tracked well in the centre of the (non crowned) tires. I tend to use my saw for one chore at a time…resawing typically, so I make the adjustments once. It takes what? 10 seconds?**

** I installed ratcheting lever fasteners in place of all the standard cap screws.

The first time I used a saw with euro guides I was confused at the design and the noise. Yes, a banshee howl and the odd spark if the blade spins up the side bearings. At the time I considered Carter guides and was talked out of it by a Euro tool purist.

My current saw is an old Agazzani which I bought cheap but needed lots of work. I installed Laguna ceramics instead of the more expensive originals for the missing lower set. They are much simpler obviously, with no moving parts.

That said, the mounting shaft for the upper guides is long and has a short section of contact with the saw’s frame. Given the variables of blade tracking I think that it would be surprising if the guides didn’t need a small tweak when moving through the vertical range of adjustment.

In Jonathan’s case he mentioned that the previous owner didn’t use dust collection, and the saw is almost 20 years old. Obviously guides are a wear item, and eventually there is only so much that cleaning and oiling can do to restore proper operation. I have never operated a new set of those guides to compare, however.