Words of Caution and the price for not heeding them

[Goodwin Heil]

I was working on a 30" X 6" stick of Ash to place a magnetic knife holder into and to do so had to cut a blind dado for an inset to be trued up with hand router and chisel. The blind dado involved putting reference marks on the fence and anchoring one end and bringing the other slowly down onto the 3/4 dado set at a quarter deep and then carefully moving it to the second reference mark. First, I have done this many times in the past carefully and with shallow cuts. Second, I have always been aware of where my fingers were in relation to the blade, just in case something were to go wrong. Third, this was a process I had done repeatedly to where it was almost automatic and I had layed it out the day before. Fourth, and importantly, my mind was on upcoming projects and the finish of this one which had a deadline of a couple of days. All of this led to what was to transpire.

As I lowered the board unto the spinning blades, anchoring the front end and lowering the rear end, the dado grabbed it and pulled it right through along with my hand holding the anchored end. I felt it and knew immediately what I had done. I turned off the saw and was afraid to look at my hand. I realized I had to as blood was gushing from my middle finger on my left hand. My Wife/Nurse/Partner/Assistant was in town, 17 miles away so I called our neighbor. I grabbed a rag and wrapped it and ignorantly squeezed, but it did slow down the blood.

I had just dadoed my middle finger and it was bad. We went to the nearest Hospital and after looking at it and redressing it they sent us to Louisville Jewish Hospital about 50 miles away, known for, among other things, its Hand Specialists. I had to have about a inch of the finger amputated. About 7 hours later we were back home.

I am writing this for two reasons. 1) to present to the members here the stupidity of my actions and let them analyze all the ignorant things I did wrong so, quite possibly, they will not make any of the many mistakes I did and, 2) To hash and rehash in my own mind all that I did wrong while it is fresh. I think the most important is not being totally focused on what I was doing.

Anyhow, I hope this will cause you all to think and reflect on how quick this can happen, regardless of how long you have been doing this Skill/hobby/vocation/art we all love and enjoy. I have many years in at this and am learning every day, but obviously not fast enough.

Your comments will not offend me, I have earned any negative ones and would welcome constructive ones also. The positive is, it could have been much worse.

[Larry Frank]

Sorry to hear about this. I hope that things work out the best and the pain not too bad.

Thanks for writing the safety reminder.

I am getting older and the probability of a stupid mistake increases. That is why I bought a certain table saw.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Very very sad to hear. Wood working machines are so dangerous. I wonder if a dado blade affects the action of a Sawstop.

[Stan Calow]

Goodwin, sorry to hear this. Maurice, there is a special brake that you install on a Sawstop for using dado blades, to deal with the wider blade.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I joined the club no one wants to be in in 1983. Reading Godwins's post really gives me a sinking felling. I looked a Sawstop over for the first time a few weeks ago. I hope to have one eventually. I am accumulating a lot of work piece holders and sleds with hold downs for difficult cuts. I have also started to learn to gauge blade height by counting the turns and position of the height adjustment wheel.

[Lee Schierer]

I did the same thing once and ended up with 21 stitches in my little finger.

Your very first mistake was bringing a work piece down onto a moving blade. It is 10,000 times safer to determine the desired cut depth on a piece of scrap, then lower the blade a counted number of turns until all the teeth are below the table surface. Then place your work piece in position with the requisite stop block behind it. Then, start the saw, while holding the work piece in place with tools/guides, raise the blade the exact same number of turns that it was lowered, make the cut, stop the saw and lower the blade again if a second cut is to be made the same way.

The rule is never, ever at any time lower a piece of wood onto a moving saw blade. Always raise the blade into the work.

[glenn bradley]

Sorry to hear this and hope you heal well. I am also thankful for your post as a safety reminder. Larry points out what we don't want to think about, we are all getting older. Just yesterday I did a minor "attention drift" move at the edge sander and I am a bit of a safety freak. Nothing a band-aid and time won't cure unlike a more serious injury. The more serious injury is just a set of circumstances away.

The most dangerous questionable practice is the one we get away with. This breeds confidence in something we probably shouldn't be doing. Last week someone posted elsewhere about losing the tip of a thumb doing something that I realized I do as well. Again I was thankful for the wake up call as I corrected my opinion of that maneuver immediately and stopped doing it.

Thanks again for sharing your experience and heal quick.

[Mark Hennebury]

Hi. First of all, sorry to hear about your accident and I hope that you heal well.

If you could present a more precise explanation, so that I don't make assumptions that may be wrong.

Your stick of wood was 30" x 6" x ?
What do you mean "anchoring"? as it sounds like you put marks on your saw fence for a visual reference and did not use stop blocks clamped to the fence."

I am confused as to your terms; "As I lowered the board unto the spinning blades, anchoring the front end and lowering the rear end, the dado grabbed it and pulled it right through along with my hand holding the anchored end."

Depending on the circumstance you can lower the wood either way as in the photos. Regardless which you choose; the stop at the front of the saw prevents the wood from getting pulled through the saw. Your hands don't have to be on the outfeed behind the saw blade. So even without stops and if you let the wood move such that the blade would grab it, you would not cut your hand, simply because it is on the infeed side of the sawblade.

The only way I see that you could cut your hand is
1. no stops
2. hands on the wrong side of the blade.

If you don't want to use stops it would seem that you should have a very good grip on the wood, be very alert, and have your hands on the infeed side of the saw blade, in case you lose it.


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[Kevin Jenness]

Ouch! I hope you heal ok.

As Mark points out, dropping on can be done safely with a stop block and your hands should not be on the outfeed side of the blade. That cut could be done more safely and with less cleanup using a plunge router. Drop cuts with a dado should be approached with caution or avoided altogether.

[johnny means]

In my mind, the problem here was a misunderstanding of the mechanics of using machinery. What people intuit is going to happen vs what happens in the physical world can be two very different things.

[Goodwin Heil]

The piece of wood was 1" thick and I was trying to remove 3/8" in one pass, no stops. All you point out is valid. I earned this amputation w/ the collection of mistakes I made. I am very ashamed that with all the years of woodworking and how generally anal I am in my habits, that I did this. Thank you for your critique.

[Jim Becker]

Goodwin, sad to hear about your accident and hope your recovery goes smoothly. And thank you for the reminder. There is none among us who is not a hair's breadth away from something similar if we lose sight of what we are doing for a split second.

[Charlie Jones]

I hope you heal quickly and it makes you even more careful. Recently I had an incident that although I was not hurt it scared me bad. I was sanding a large box on the stationary belt sander. I was wearing a very light synthetic Tee shirt with the bottom untucked. The dust collector pulled the shirt tail into the belt and the tail of the shirt was ripped off so fast it took me a minute to realise what happened. I normally tuck my shirt but it was one of those “ work in the shop a few minutes times” . I am so glad I wasn’t working around a blade. Thanks for posting your story. We all can learn from each other’s mistakes.

[Thomas Wilson]

Goodwin, I am very sorry to hear of your accident. I hope you heal and adapt. My electrician who is also a woodworker showed up a few weeks ago and had just recovered from a similar injury. It is so easy to make a mistake.

I am still getting used to my new shop and new central dust collection system. I made a couple of mistakes while making a test part recently that worry me. I was doing machine setup for a molding operation. I was moving from tool to tool, jointer to router table to table saw, measuring and adjusting. I made two operating mistakes. I did not align the blast gates correctly once and I failed to turn off the jointer once. The last one really bothered me because it is such a safety concern. Part of this is newness but I am getting older too. I am going to start keeping a log of mistakes both to raise my awareness of them to form better safety habits but also as a mechanism to decide when to stop using power tools.

[Thomas McCurnin]

Hmmm. I'm not sure what to make of this. I have done this blind dado many times and honestly it gave me, and still gives me, the heebie jeebies when lowering any piece of wood onto a spinning router bit or saw blade. That is why I have gotten into hand tools and have a hand router plane.

I'm not sure how this technique could have been made safer. I have some ideas though.

1. Lowering the blade, so the full depth of the dado must be achieved through multiple passes. Safer probably but introduces errors with multiple passes. But since the dado was only a quarter inch deep, I'm not sure going more shallow would have been that much safer.

2. Not using a blind dado. Run it full length and plug the area outside the magnetic knife holder. Use a contrasting wood and make it a feature, not a mistake.

3. Flip the board over, clamp it to the bench and use a plunge router with edge guides.

4. Heck, just use hand tools.

Anyone else have a safer way of doing this?

[Mark Hennebury]

Tom,
Safer:
1. Use stop blocks.! Wood pressed up against the stop while lowering onto a spinning blade cannot kick-back!

If you want to work without stops, and you can, It is a judgement call based on several factors, the size of the wood, the width and depth off cut, your ability to understand what you are doing, and your ability to keep control of the wood. Your commitment and focus to complete the job.

If you choose to work without stops you can still do that relatively safely; keep your hands on the infeed side of the saw. This way if you slip and the wood gets grabbed by the sawblade and it shoots passed you, your hands will be pushed toward you and away from the sawblade. you will loose the wood, but not your fingers.

The most dangerous way...... by far... is to do the cut without stops, and to place one hand on the out-feed side of the saw. This is pretty much suicide. Do-able, but one slip and your losing fingers....guaranteed! You simply have no escape route, you don't have time to react, and your hand will go into the sawblade!

Danger is everywhere, if you are alive your in danger of getting injured or killed!

But you have to choose carefully what dangers you can and want to accept.

I see no reason to do this cut with your hand on the out-feed side of the saw! whether or not you use stop blocks.



Hmmm. I'm not sure what to make of this. I have done this blind dado many times and honestly it gave me, and still gives me, the heebie jeebies when lowering any piece of wood onto a spinning router bit or saw blade. That is why I have gotten into hand tools and have a hand router plane.

I'm not sure how this technique could have been made safer. I have some ideas though.

1. Lowering the blade, so the full depth of the dado must be achieved through multiple passes. Safer probably but introduces errors with multiple passes. But since the dado was only a quarter inch deep, I'm not sure going more shallow would have been that much safer.

2. Not using a blind dado. Run it full length and plug the area outside the magnetic knife holder. Use a contrasting wood and make it a feature, not a mistake.

3. Flip the board over, clamp it to the bench and use a plunge router with edge guides.

4. Heck, just use hand tools.

Anyone else have a safer way of doing this?

[Thomas McCurnin]

Mark, I'm not sure how to use stop blocks in this technique. The piece was 30" long, about as long as the table saw is deep, and I assume the dado was centered, so at least 25 inches of the board had to go past the spinning blade, and there would be no way to place a stop block behind the blade, on the outfeed side. Unless the user has a really deep outfeed table, which would have to be after market. In any case, even with a stop block on the outfeed table, with a stopped dado on a table saw, once still has to place the pieces onto a spinning dado blade, move it along the dado, shut off the saw and lift it up. I would not feel comfortable doing this, stop block or not.

I don't think I've ever done a stopped dado like this on a table saw, although I have done this on a router table. It always, never fails, scares the crap out of me.

I might consider using a router table and a half inch or three eighths bit and making multiple passes, moving the fence and raising the bit. I put tape on the fence and drop the piece onto the spinning router bit, run it through and then lift it up, unless I can easily shut off the router first, which in my case, I cannot do. I don't have a foot switch. My guess would be that I would probably wreck 2-3 pieces before getting one close enough to trim to size with hand tools. That's what I have done in the past.

I think I would have made the piece something like 45-50" long, put the dado in the center using a plunge router with the piece clamped to the bench and taking incremental passes with a plunge router with stops clamped or hot melt glued to the piece to stop the router base. Then cut the piece to size on the table saw.

Or move my RAS to rip, put in the dado, clamp down the piece and lower the blade. I think the RAS would be my last choice.

Or score the dado sides, and use a router plane.

I'd have to noodle this looking at the board and the magnetic attachment that apparently fits inside the dado.

I am super-scared of table saws, and have been using them since I was 14 years old. Call it unreasonable fear or a healthy respect, but I noodle cuts like these, often sleeping on the technique, googling the technique, rehearsing the proposed moves, trying hold downs, and weighing alternative ways to make the cut. I usually do offbeat cuts like these first thing in the morning, not when I am tired, and after my morning coffee.

But clarify for me how you would use a stop block on a table saw dado blade set up, because I'm not understanding.

[Andrew Hughes]

What’s the status of the magnetic knife holder.
Did you finish it?

[Mark Hennebury]

First thing Tom,

if using a machine scares the crap out of you, then you shouldn't be using it!

Why are you scared of doing an operation on a machine?... the only reason that I can think of is that you don't understand the mechanics of what you are doing, are not sure what might happen, not sure of your ability to control the material and are just jumping in blind and hoping things don't go sideways. That is not the way to work on machines in my opinion.

If you understand the variables of an operation you can assess the degree of danger and make a judgement on your ability to control the outcome. If you don't understand the variables and don't have confidence and cannot apply the needed commitment and attention, you should be very scared.

Dealing with danger is a part of life, you cannot avoid it.

If you want to work on dangerous machinery, you need to know what you are doing and be confident in your ability to perform the task. Arming yourself with push sticks and grippers to combat fear is not safe. Working with danger when you know what you are doing is not scary.....intense, but not scary!


In this particular case, I do not know the length of dado of position in the piece of wood, the size of the table saw or fence etc. I don't know how many teeth are on the dado set, how fast it's spinning or if it has chip limiters etc.. missing information does not help in providing an accurate assessment.

Chip limiters make the cut safer, saw can only cut a set amount per tooth making for a controlled rate of feed, a blade set without chip limiters can take a much bigger cut and will be a lot more aggressive when making initial contact with the blade when lowering the wood into the spinning blade at the start.

If the table saw top is not long enough for the operation, you don't need an aftermarket anything you simple put a piece of MDF to make a longer sub-table this is not complicated stuff, the principle is simply to have a stop to register the wood against when you start to lower the wood into the spinning cutter. You then feed the wood (as you would when ripping) up to the outfeed stop and lift it up, no need to shut the saw down for this.


The Great age of information is a two sided blade, on the one hand we have the availability of endless information at our fingertips... the problem is that most of it is incorrect. So learning from Youtube channels may just be teaching you how to do stuff wrong. You need to learn the properties of wood, cutting tool geometry, the wood cutting process, understand the what the machine is doing, rim speed, tooth count, chip size etc.. so that you know what you are doing, then it's not scary, it is just a controlled process, with a predictable out-come.

This photo shows the principle, if the table isn't long enough, make it longer, if the fence isn't long enough... make it longer. If you table-saw table is not long enough clamp on a MDF sub-table, if you fence is not long enough clamp on a scrap to the fence,

Analyze, understand, adapt, overcome, this is woodworking!

Your best personal protective gear is knowledge.


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Mark, I'm not sure how to use stop blocks in this technique. The piece was 30" long, about as long as the table saw is deep, and I assume the dado was centered, so at least 25 inches of the board had to go past the spinning blade, and there would be no way to place a stop block behind the blade, on the outfeed side. Unless the user has a really deep outfeed table, which would have to be after market. In any case, even with a stop block on the outfeed table, with a stopped dado on a table saw, once still has to place the pieces onto a spinning dado blade, move it along the dado, shut off the saw and lift it up. I would not feel comfortable doing this, stop block or not.

I don't think I've ever done a stopped dado like this on a table saw, although I have done this on a router table. It always, never fails, scares the crap out of me.

I might consider using a router table and a half inch or three eighths bit and making multiple passes, moving the fence and raising the bit. I put tape on the fence and drop the piece onto the spinning router bit, run it through and then lift it up, unless I can easily shut off the router first, which in my case, I cannot do. I don't have a foot switch. My guess would be that I would probably wreck 2-3 pieces before getting one close enough to trim to size with hand tools. That's what I have done in the past.

I think I would have made the piece something like 45-50" long, put the dado in the center using a plunge router with the piece clamped to the bench and taking incremental passes with a plunge router with stops clamped or hot melt glued to the piece to stop the router base. Then cut the piece to size on the table saw.

Or move my RAS to rip, put in the dado, clamp down the piece and lower the blade. I think the RAS would be my last choice.

Or score the dado sides, and use a router plane.

I'd have to noodle this looking at the board and the magnetic attachment that apparently fits inside the dado.

I am super-scared of table saws, and have been using them since I was 14 years old. Call it unreasonable fear or a healthy respect, but I noodle cuts like these, often sleeping on the technique, googling the technique, rehearsing the proposed moves, trying hold downs, and weighing alternative ways to make the cut. I usually do offbeat cuts like these first thing in the morning, not when I am tired, and after my morning coffee.

But clarify for me how you would use a stop block on a table saw dado blade set up, because I'm not understanding.

[Randall J Cox]

Goodwin, so sorry to here about your accident. I'm 75 and have been a hobbiest woodworker for over 35 years. I remember something from USAF pilot training way back when. Most pilot errors happen well after pilot training and about a couple years into flying. We become complacent. And this is certainly not aimed at you. I know I find my mind wandering sometimes in the shop and I know that's dangerous. Or if you want to make just one more cut and your already tired. Stay focused I keep telling myself. I also realize a lot of the folks on this forum do this for a living and have to deal with deadlines and long days in the shop. Anyway, hope you heal soon and thank you for sharing this, hopefully it will make us all think about safety. Randy

[Thomas McCurnin]

Thank you Mark. I have been woodworking since 1965. There are some operations that I feel uncomfortable doing. A man has got to know his limitations. The point of my post is that there is no single way to perform the technique calling for a double stopped dado, some methods are more comfortable to some woodworkers, and others are not. Many ways to skin the cat.

[Warren Lake]

I typed a long response but dont feel like seeing myself talk

Thomas yes there are often different ways to do cuts, most of what you said is unrealistic for anyone who makes a living at this, your radial is not a consideration. My post answered three ways to do stops for that though. Sounds like a thing you will not be doing. I didnt use stops very often but they are wise.

I dont even now what to say about being afraid. That is a concern.

[Thomas McCurnin]

I could make a 3/8" double stopped dado 12 " long using a sharp router plane in about 10 minutes or less. Heck, probably close to 5 minutes. It would be about 10 passes with a router plane. Done. No set up, no blade changes, no dado, no jigs, no guards, no stop blocks, no hold downs.

Meanwhile, it would take me an hour to build your jig. Heck, changing a blade to a dado, running some test cuts, then performing a double stopped dado would take me 15-30 minutes. Set up for a plunge router would also take about 30 minutes. I believe the OP is a hobbyist. To your point, if was in the business of making these and had to make 50-100 of them, I would just buy a CNC.

Afraid? Well, lets call it a healthy respect for power tools and what they can do. When I was 14 years old, I was using a Rocket Brand 20" RAS to build homes, and yes, cross-cutting, ripping and yes plunge cutting with it. Great machine. Dangerous? Yes, but only if one is not trained to use it. We also used a lot of hand tools and were trained by the Union to use them.

I have all my fingers and I've suffered no injuries.

[Warren Lake]

Not a chance. The jig takes very little time and id have 50 cut while you were still playing. Try making a living in the trade for 40 years then we can talk about it.

Behind afraid and having respect for machines are two different things.

The real problem with many is they have never been trained. Accidents happen three times the speed of lighting the acceleration from a table saw is staggering. If no one ever taught them then will learn what you did wrong after its happened. I wrote a long email, didnt need to hear myself preach. Its often thankless anyway.

[Mark Hennebury]

Hi Tom,

It seems that I have got you on the defensive, I apologize for that, my comments are simply my opinion on the topics in this discussion. You bought up the fear factor, I see that as an indicator of a problem, I addressed why I think that. It was not personal.

My interest in participating in the conversation is to analyze and understand how and why the accident happened, and to discuss how the operation could have been done safer.

Woodworking is not some mystical operation, machines and tools (with some exceptions) don't have a mind of there own. they don't actually randomly decide to grab your timber out of your hand and pull you into the cutter.

There are (for the most part) predictable reasons for what happens.

Mostly the reason can be traced to human error. A lack of knowledge and understanding of the mechanics of what the operator is doing, sometimes a momentary distraction, lack of focus etc. But there are reasons for the result.

In the case of the accident in this discussion the OP knows that he made errors that resulted in his injury and was kind enough to post his story for the safety of all the rest of us. We all make errors, so, there is no shame in that, I have made quite a few myself. But this is a good time to discuss what happened and to understand why and how it happened to spread some knowledge and help others work safer.


In my opinion it would seem;
The accident happened because the OP did not maintain control of the stock!

The problem is, he chose a method that relied 100% on his ability to physically control the feeding of the stock.

The method chosen in this case, was the most risky…. by far. with Zero margin for error! and almost guaranteed injury if you screw up.

I usually see people taking risks for rewards, the reason for the OP’s choice is unclear to me, I see no benefit in time saving, just increased risk of injury.

If you don't maintain constant control of the stock, then you give control to the cutter and the mechanics of it will grab and propel the wood across the cutter, dragging your hand across the cutter in a split second.

The injury to his hand was caused because his hand was on the outfeed side of the tablesaw behind the blade when the accident happened. The speed of the accident leaves no time for reaction, and draws the operators hand towards the cutter.

Stops to register the wood against would have prevented the wood from shooting away.

Placing ones hands on the infeed side would have prevented the injury when not using stops, and would be a double security when using stops.

" drop-cuts" are dangerous, as is everything in and out of the shop. There are levels of danger and ways to cope.


If you have ever done pin routing you are essentially doing drop-cutting, or template shaping on a shaper. It is done all the time. It requires understanding of the mechanics, full concentration and firm control, and If you can, a good escape route...just in case.

The good escape route is mostly about being able to predict problems that could occur and choosing appropriate hand placement to avoid injury if/when a problem should occur.

There are times and reasons when you work without a safety net, but you have to give that due consideration, because the chances of an error are greater as are the consequences.


And What Warren said.

[Mike King]

https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/shop-projects/ep-6-case-assembly-dados

[Scott Clausen]

Goodwin, so sorry. This is one of those "it happened so fast" type of stories. I did get a Saw Stop as insurance in this type of event but don't use it much since going mostly hand tool. Watched (Frank's Workbench) this morning on a stopped dado using hand tools. I thought, I need to try that.

[Edward Weber]

In my mind, the problem here was a misunderstanding of the mechanics of using machinery. What people intuit is going to happen vs what happens in the physical world can be two very different things.

I have to agree
I've been try to teach people for many many years that, if they know all the limits and capabilities of their tools (power or hand) they will be a better and safer woodworker.
Which way the blade is spinning, which way to feed the wood, which direction the force is applied and so on.

I hope the OP heals well and I appreciate his willingness to share his experience. I also would like to applaud him in his quest for answers and a better understanding of what happened.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Goodwin, I hope you heal completely and quickly I always consider posts like these as Public Service Announcements and Reminders.

A decade or so ago, while routing half-lapped joints for a wood storage rack, I answered a phone call from my youngest son who told me his wife had come through surgery fine. As I remember it, this was her 3rd surgery in 12 months. I hung up, restarted the DC. I had an open 4" hose sitting by the 2x4's I was routing. I finished the current 1/4" removal, turned off the router, unlocked it so I could adjust the depth to the next 1/4" stop, flipped the router over. As I depressed the base down to the new setting, I glanced at phone across the room thinking of the DIL. The bit hadn't quite stopped yet when it made contact with my right wrist. Similar to your situation, my wife was at the school where she had retired having lunch with some of her former coworkers. I grabbed a rag, wrapped it around my wrist. My right hand was having seizures and I had difficulties using the fob to turn off the DC. I ran next door and luckily the neighbors were home. As the husband and wife drove me to the local medical center, they called my wife on her cell. 14 stitches later I came home. Though I temporarily had a numb streak between my right thumb and forefinger, it eventually went away and I also have complete use of my dominant right hand.

We all make mistakes and not focusing on the job at hand is one of the most critical ones.

Thanks again for posting!

[Scott Bernstein]

Goodwin - very sorry to hear about your accident; I'm glad you are (relatively) OK and you were able to maintain most of the functionality of your hand. Not really much consolation, but it could have been worse. I need my hands in my real job, so when I started woodworking I bought a sawstop. Not a perfect solution, but it goes a long way to improving safety. In Norma Abram's old shows, I think he always raised the blade into the wood as has been stated here. In my own shop, I would have done this operation on my Router Boss, which can handle longer pieces (up to 48"). The workpiece is clamped down into a sliding cradle and the operator turns a hand crank which moves the piece through the cut. Unlike a router table the bit is face down, which means the cut is facing towards you. Another handle raises and lowers the router into the work. Stops can be applied to control the length of the dado. And the dust collection is pretty good. Second best would be a router table, raising the bit into the work and taking shallow cuts. Lastly, a handheld router with some sort of straightedge and stops. Or hand tools of course!

Good luck!

[Maurice Arney]

As I started the second paragraph of your post beginning "As I lowered..." I thought "Oh God... I know what is coming." I've had a few scares in my time but have been fortunate enough not to have a serious accident. After having a few "close calls", I find myself stopping to think before each operation, "what could happen here if I'm not careful?" I'm sorry you lost part of your finger. I hope you are back in business soon.

[Thomas McCurnin]

https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/shop-projects/ep-6-case-assembly-dados

+1. Mike beat me to this. I was watching the series this week on doing a pins first dovetail method, one which I was taught at Homestead in Waco, where Paul Sellers taught. Episodes 3-4 are quite interesting and provide some good ideas like using story sticks instead of dividers for layout of the pins and using a pencil, not a marking knife for marking the tails, which I was not taught, but makes sense. In addition, such clever sayings as "wide on the inside" (to describe the orientation of the dovetail) and "chasing the smudge" (to describe using the pencil method for paring the tails). I had not made to the linked episode yet, because I was not interested in dados. Well until yesterday and the OP's unfortunate injury, which provides and excellent backdrop of shop safety.

The undescribed link is a great video series of making a toolbox, and the episode linked by Mike discusses making the dados for the drawer dividers. The author Matt Wajada at 13:07 uses a stop block at the rear of the table saw which spans the whole width of the table and is clamped down in two places, so when he lowers the work onto the spinning dado blade the rear of the tool box side is supported and cannot kick back, nor can it climb cut. I remain unsure whether the OP's board was small enough to fit on the table saw, or the attempted dado was short enough to allow such a stop block to be used.

I must admit that I have not seen this technique before and learned something today from Mike, Matt and Mark. To all others, a picture is worth a thousand words, and check out the linked video at 13:07.

[Bob Cooper]

Thanks so much for sharing. I know that’s not easy to do but it’s super helpful for all of us. It will just remind me to really think through this operation.

No new advice but the big issues were
- hand behind the blade
- nothing to keep the wood from projecting forward (kickback) - that’s where the stop on the front would really help

It didn’t help that Ash is a dense/hard wood

[Roger Feeley]

Very very sad to hear. Wood working machines are so dangerous. I wonder if a dado blade affects the action of a Sawstop.

Maurice,
Sawstop assumes an 8” stacked dado set and sells a special brake.

[Jim Becker]

Maurice,
Sawstop assumes an 8” stacked dado set and sells a special brake.
It's not just an assumption...they require an 8" stack for their brake system which has to be very closely matched to blade diameter. That's why there have been a few reports in the past where certain regular "ten inch" blades were causing non-function because they were outside of the allowed variance in diameter that Sawstops system can support.

[Warren Lake]

All of this unnessary cause most people were never taught on a saw, elephant in the room, elephant in the room, i find mind boggling after 40 years of accidents people telling me and most had no training or instruction


You have a car you need a drivers license
You have a saw, you needed a visa card ? both them can hurt you yet you go in blind with one of them, Its just a matter of time



There are many reasons for accidents some others,

you have tight deadlines and already doing 80 hour week, its your best customer, you are tired and then have to push more

suppliers let you down, sometimes the material is not what it should be, you have to get the job done,

a cat jumps on a running machine, you save it and get cut, you realize why people like dogs better

the person you asked about an operation on your saw told you wrong, that happened to me in the beginning but led to me finding the best, actually a 35 year gift

Fluke stuff that happens as it does internal stress causes something to break off or suddenly release, '

some off cut shifts on the saw top and fires deep into your hand, red wine and a fresh number 10 exacto knife blade still will not make it for home surgery,

phone call distractions, its Elizabeth Hurley again asking you out but you have to work,

you slip, for the most part I dont run guards so slipping has to not happen

You learned from the internet, there are some really bad examples on there, there you can find some people showing you how to do what they dont know

The designer you are working for does a totally dishonerable thing and the customer cancels the job that you have finished, this happened to a friend and so your mind is on what you just lost,

There are many more things that happen. Ive seen them myself. ive seen them happen to others



The basic thing is the elephant in the room and people dont know what they are doing. Blunt answer I know but after reading and knowing 40 years of injuries I don't care to be polite. Its all upsetting to me and even more so to the people hurt of course. Even knowing it is no guarantee but not knowing it its only a matter of time. Ive screwed up several times or had fluke stuff.

People that sold you the saw dont give a damn, they got your money. They also made market for Sawstop as well cause of the elephant. Almost makes me like sawstop.

Get taught by a real live person if you can find one. After that is up to you to follow that or not. Its no guarantee but you will be 50 times safer.

[Edward Weber]

The basic thing is the elephant in the room and people dont know what they are doing. Blunt answer I know but after reading and knowing 40 years of injuries I don't care to be polite. Its all upsetting to me and even more so to the people hurt of course. Even knowing it is no guarantee but not knowing it its only a matter of time. Ive screwed up several times or had fluke stuff.


+1

I've been cutting wood for a very long time and yes, fluke stuff does happen. but knowing as much as possible about your tools and your craft, puts you in a much better position when eventually something does go wrong.
As far as watching YT videos, there are too many bad examples, even many of the "experts" perform some tasks I wouldn't recommend for safety reasons. Complacency and lack of respect for tools is are bad habits to fall into, they breed mistakes and often injuries.
Just because you don't get hurt, doesn't mean it's safe. The only thing you can do is to learn as much as you can until you're comfortable but not complacent with performing tasks safely.
I will add that since wood is a natural product, no two cuts are ever the same, ever.

[Jim Becker]

Honestly, the bottom line here is that honestly, it doesn't matter how experienced one might be or how good their equipment might be...accidents still happen because a human being loses focus on something in "that moment" where the risk is there for physical damage to their body. We are ALL at risk and "stuff happens". The goal needs to be to try to be methodical, careful and cautious as much as possible to help mitigate that risk as best as we can.

[Warren Lake]

its not the bottom line, if there is one its the lack of knowing.

I dont read these sites and see endless people who know having accidents. They all may at some point, they are in the real world, dont have a six figure day job and subject to tons of dynamics more than hobby.

There are only two choices in this case not knowing what can happen or knowing and doing it anyway. Ive done enough of that. Its different story. Mark calls it calculated risk. Stuff we have done in order to get the work done.

If I had not been taught not to go behind the blade then shown what happened when he didnt listen then it would have happened to me by now, learning after it happened blazing fast.

[Rod Sheridan]

a cat jumps on a running machine, you save it and get cut, you realize why people like dogs better

.


Haha, good one Warren, yet I still like cats and dogs.

Goodwin, sorry to hear about your accident, hope you heal well.

I do insertion moulding on a shaper using stops bolted to the table, and an Aigner work holder for short pieces.

Best wishes for your recovery…..Regards, Rod

[Maurice Mcmurry]

A Low Fi safety arrangement for Goodwins cut. The wobble dado blade was raised unto the ash by counting the turns and position of the hand wheel.

483057 483066

[Edward Weber]

its not the bottom line, if there is one its the lack of knowing.

I dont read these sites and see endless people who know having accidents. They all may at some point, they are in the real world, dont have a six figure day job and subject to tons of dynamics more than hobby.

There are only two choices in this case not knowing what can happen or knowing and doing it anyway. Ive done enough of that. Its different story. Mark calls it calculated risk. Stuff we have done in order to get the work done.

If I had not been taught not to go behind the blade then shown what happened when he didnt listen then it would have happened to me by now, learning after it happened blazing fast.


+1, Again
The only way to minimize the potential risk is to become more knowledgeable about what you doing.
Everyone has their own "risk factor", that's true but it's directly dependent on how much you know.
Many get injured simply because they had no idea they could get hurt and therefore didn't perceive any risk.

[andrew whicker]

Sorry to hear that, hope you heal up fast and don't let it get you down too much. Happy to hear it wasn't worse.

A big part of risk taking and risky activities is not always knowing if you "got away with something" or "made a good decision" when the outcome works in your favor.

While your decision on how to make that cut wouldn't have seriously entered my mind, I have certainly done stupid things that wouldn't have crossed your mind : )

[Anuj Prateek]

So sorry to hear about your accident. I hope you recover quickly. I feel scared just reading your story.

A year or so back I was cutting a small piece of wood on miter saw. Length of wood piece was small and I was using a wood stick to hold it down instead of clamps. The saw threw the wood piece, stop block, and wood stick violently. Luckily I was not hurt but was horrified. I was skeptical of the way I was cutting to begin with and should have stopped. Never did it again.

Dropping wood on spinning blade or router bit scares me. This along with climb cut on router, vertical panel bits, cutting metal on table saw, using router in horizontal position, using table saw without riving knife etc are some things that are in my "not trying that" list. I know people do these safely but I never got comfortable.

[Curt Harms]

Ouch! I hope you heal ok.

As Mark points out, dropping on can be done safely with a stop block and your hands should not be on the outfeed side of the blade. That cut could be done more safely and with less cleanup using a plunge router. Drop cuts with a dado should be approached with caution or avoided altogether.

A plunge router and guide would be my choice. A dado blade in a table saw is faster though and sometimes time is money. But then how expensive is an injury like Goodwin suffered? Hard to assign a $$$$ value to some things.

[Greg Funk]

A plunge router and guide would be my choice. A dado blade in a table saw is faster though and sometimes time is money. But then how expensive is an injury like Goodwin suffered? Hard to assign a $$$$ value to some things.If you use the techniques described in this thread the risk with a dado blade are very low. I've done stopped cuts with a dado blade for over 40 yrs since high school shop class. Maybe it's the anti-kickback blade I use but I've never had any hint of a kickback.

Worst kickback I've seen was a worker building our house cutting a piece of hardwood flooring freehand. The wood got on top of the blade and fired back like a missile through a 3/4" sheet of MDF.

[Scott Clausen]

When I started woodworking other than contacting the blade I had no idea kick back was a thing. I did however take in any safety videos I could get my hands on and have since modified my standing position behind the saw. Sadly we sometimes learn through a bad experience and other times learn through others experience. I would like to thank the OP for being open about this event. As difficult as it may be, it may actually prevent others from tragic results.

[Ronald Blue]

Sorry that you were injured Goodwin. I won't pile on because about every conceivable method has been discussed already. My last job we did reenactments every time someone was injured. The purpose was to learn and educate to hopefully prevent it from happening again. Determining the better or best way to do the task going forward. They were beneficial for the most part. Those of us with boots on the ground usually were well familiar with what happened and why. You already understand fully both of those. I hope you heal quickly and continue to make sawdust and don't add any additional flesh and blood to the process.

[Bruce Mack]

Goodwin, I too am very sorry. Thank you for telling us of this. Your story will cause me to think when I next use a stationary power tool. I tend not to be focused in the shop, using the time to muse and to uncouple my brain from reality. This is usually ok as I do mostly hand work but can be a liability with the tablesaw when I actually use it. It mostly serves as a staging area, holding things I am working on as well as some hazardous material like try squares. All other surfaces are cluttered so, stupidly, I just shift stuff away from the blade. I will try do better.
I hope your healing leaves you free of pain and able to enjoy woodworking and all other activities.

[Goodwin Heil]

Andrew, I have not, yet. We had a short 4 day camping trip planned and have been working dawn to dusk and were not going to miss this break.
Just got back and it is one of the first things on the agenda.

[Steve Demuth]

it doesn't matter how experienced one might be or how good their equipment might be...accidents still happen because a human being loses focus on something in "that moment" where the risk is there for physical damage to their body. We are ALL at risk and "stuff happens". The goal needs to be to try to be methodical, careful and cautious as much as possible to help mitigate that risk as best as we can.

This is exactly right. If you're doing something you've done 100 times before, you need to concentrate on following good safety procedure, because complacency creeps in, and puts you at risk. And if you're doing something new or one off, you need to think it through and concentrate on execution, because new has its own risks.

I worked for many years at the hospital system with the best rated surgical practice in this country. For many surgeries, that practice has complication rates less than 10% of the norm for the country as a whole. One of the things they did - and remember, these are the best surgeons and surgical teams in the world - is a "pause" at the beginning of each procedure where the team reviews who the patient is, what they are about to do, and any special concerns/precautions for the work ahead. Because mistakes happen, and mistakes kill patients. It's no different with power tools. Think it through, concentrate.

[Ronald Blue]

This is exactly right. If you're doing something you've done 100 times before, you need to concentrate on following good safety procedure, because complacency creeps in, and puts you at risk. And if you're doing something new or one off, you need to think it through and concentrate on execution, because new has its own risks.


We learned that injuries rarely occurred on a job that was being done the first time. Unless there was a complete failure to recognized potential hazards. As you say complacency is bred by getting comfortable and not concentrating fully.

[Edward Weber]

Slightly different take on becoming complacent.
Many, and I mean many, woodworkers are complacent in one form or another.
The problem usually starts with tasks that are simple (low risk of injury) and repetitive. "I've done this a thousand times" is a usual statement heard. This is just another way of saying I'm so confident in my skills, I no longer need to pay as close attention as others, I have the experience to know what could happen.
People usually get away with this on low risk tasks. Most hand tool use could fall into this category.

The habit becomes problematic (potentially unsafe) when a task with more inherent risk, like power tool use, comes into play. High speed spinning bits/blades raise the level of concentration needed exponentially, when a lack of attention can cause injury in a fraction of a second.
Well, you may have done it a thousand time without injury, it doesn't mean it's any less dangerous, but the same sentiment of, I no longer need to pay as close attention as others, I have the experience to know what could happen. This is where injuries happen.

You may have knowledge and experience of the potential hazards, but if you don't pay attention when performing tasks, (become complacent) especially those tasks with a higher level of potential danger, it doesn't make a difference.

I agree with taking a pause, just a moment to assess things before you start. This is especially important if it's a task you've never done before. Making sure everything is set for a safe completion of the task at hand should be what become second nature.

Work safe everyone

[William Hodge]

I have found that pause to be effective.
It gives me time to think about where everything is, what I'm going to do, and if everything is tight. Like the knives in the molder head, stock feeder, fences, guards, hold downs, etc. This pause is also a chance for me to slow down, focus, and possibly lower anxiety levels. Not working with others helps. The only things I haven't seen someone lose something on is a radial arm saw and a 5 head molder. Not having that circus going on helps.

[Scott Clausen]

I have often felt that a task like ripping a bunch of thin strips at a time is the most dangerous type of cut. You develop a rhythm in bringing back the board and clearing the off cut to go into the stack. Both hands with a different task moving independently. Scary stuff there that makes me cringe.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Thin rips with out a zero clearance throat plate lead to a bad injury for a friend. : (

[Goodwin Heil]

One of these posts referred to me as a hobbyist. Before this accident I would have taken offense at such a ignorant statement, but now I wish I could claim it to be so. It would easily explain this series of rookie mistakes I have made.
But such is not the case, I have no such excuse. I have worked in my younger days as a Union Carpenter for 15 years, building everything from homes, to nuclear power plants, to schools, to strip malls and everything in between. and since I retired I have built furniture for over 20 years.

I will grant it is a hobbyist type of mistake, but not made from lack of experience, but rather from complacency and lack of focus. I am very proud of my skills and always willing to try something new. I have my own trees cut, have a friend with a sawmill make them into lumber, stack and sticker them in my barn and then process them thru my shop when ready to build. I would think, like most of you, there is sheer delight in bring out the amazing beauty in a piece of wood and showcasing it in my project of the moment.

Yes, I wish the answer was as simple as saying to you all I was a hobbyist and just made a beginner mistake, but no, is is much more shameful than that and I will have to work hard to redeem myself in my own eyes.

[Jim Becker]

Goodwin, it doesn't matter whether woodworking is an avocation or a vocation...accidents can happen to anyone at any skill level. There's no "shame" in that regardless because in most cases, it's simply a human error of some kind at just the right/wrong time. (I say most cases because certainly there occasionally is a machine or material failure that can also cause injury through no fault of the person involved) So don't beat yourself up for sure. In fact, thank you again for bringing it in front of the community because it's a good reminder to us all.

[Warren Lake]

I typed this before you posted Jim and decided to go water my plants but seeing your post posting it anyway. You dont get itjim. My training taught me not to put my hand behind the blade for that cut.

heres the post


No reason to not use my name Goodwin. I originally read your post and it wasnt clear to me what you did. I read it a second time and it still wasnt clear. I think someone else read it and said they didnt get it maybe Mark. Many posts people post stuff with not enough info or are not clear. You use words like Anchor?? I don't what that is.

The hobby statement was a general statement and not directed to you. I had no idea what your history is. Hobby guys no training abound.

Your carpentry history, its a different trade on different machines with different circumstances and different operations. Ive twice seen carpenters rip material on a saw part way through then go to the outfeed side and pull it through.

My kick back scars are scars from material firing into my hand not my hand being pulled into the blade. Tons of dropping on dadoes and single blade as well mostly with no stop. Nothing smart at all about it and its also dependant on material size, cut and more, No benefit of antikick back stuff, two types of dadoes one negative rake used the odd time and safer for that.

Dont beat yourself up too much. ive being doing that for a lifetime after stuff ive done and not just in this trade.

You were either taught not to put your hand behind the blade doing that cut and didnt listen or you were not taught. The pause, think it through use the roseary stuff is not much help with physics, I got the lesson saw the finger when I was told why.

[Edward Weber]

I would like to ask the OP for a bit of clarification.
What was used for an anchor? Was it clamped?. I'm having a difficult time understanding how the blade pulled the wood and your hand through and past the stop/anchor.
If I understand what you did correctly
It's difficult to determine what mistake, if any, was made without understanding the cut completely.

[Goodwin Heil]

I have been asked for clarification, so I will try. "Anchored" is my way of saying I was holding the board down with my left hand ahead of the dado. My right hand was holding the back of the board at a steep angle and I started to slowly lower the board with my right hand.the idea being to achieve the full depth of cut and the push the board forward until the indication on my fence matches my indication on my board.

Honestly, there was that little voice in my head saying something was wrong, but I did not heed it. I had done this so many times I could not identify a problem, so I went ahead with the cut. Also my mind was on a treasured Chocolate Lab I had to put down just yesterday. If I had paused and listen to that little voice I would have realized that I always had "anchored" with my right hand behind the dado and slowly brought down the front with my left hand. Keeping both hands in a relatively safe position, or at least safer.

I hope that helps.

[Lee Schierer]

I have been asked for clarification, so I will try. "Anchored" is my way of saying I was holding the board down with my left hand ahead of the dado. My right hand was holding the back of the board at a steep angle and I started to slowly lower the board with my right hand.the idea being to achieve the full depth of cut and the push the board forward until the indication on my fence matches my indication on my board.

Honestly, there was that little voice in my head saying something was wrong, but I did not heed it. I had done this so many times I could not identify a problem, so I went ahead with the cut. Also my mind was on a treasured Chocolate Lab I had to put down just yesterday. If I had paused and listen to that little voice I would have realized that I always had "anchored" with my right hand behind the dado and slowly brought down the front with my left hand. Keeping both hands in a relatively safe position, or at least safer.

I hope that helps.

That was exactly what happened to me when I hurt my hand. I also ignored the little voice in my head. I had just made three successful cuts just before it all went wrong on #4. Always raise the blade into the piece being cut. Make sure you have the piece secured and back stopped. Use push pads and feather boards and never get your hand(s) behind the blade while it is turning.

[andy bessette]

Clearly the procedure that produced this injury is unsafe, no matter how many times it had previously been used. Personally, I favor using a router table for this type of work. But, if a table saw is the only option, then raising the blade into the workpiece is the safe choice.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I have not been injured by a router (knock on wood). My Brother stuck his finger into Dads face frame mortis and tenon router arrangement the same summer that he shot a 1/4 inch crown 1 1/4 inch long Senco staple through his finger. Trips to the Hospital both times. These tools are so very dangerous.

[Mike King]

Clearly the procedure that produced this injury is unsafe, no matter how many times it had previously been used. Personally, I favor using a router table for this type of work. But, if a table saw is the only option, then raising the blade into the workpiece is the safe choice.

There are several methods to achieve the result that may manage the risk of injury. Perhaps a list of ways to do this would be constructive? Here's my take:

1. Hand tools.
2. machines that keep the hands out of the way of any cutter, such as horizontal slot cutter, router machines like the Multirouter or Pantarouter.
3. router using a template jig and guide bushing or plunge router with edge guide
4. stops fixed to fence on the router table and lowering/levering the work onto the cutter
5. stops fixed to the table and rip fence and lowering/levering the work onto the dado on the table saw.

Any other methods of work?

Goodwin, thank you for bringing your injury to the group for others to learn from -- that is potentially very useful for others to learn from your misfortune and it isn't easy to see all of the Monday morning quarterbacking.

[andy bessette]

There are several methods to achieve the result that may manage the risk of injury. Perhaps a list of ways to do this would be constructive? Here's my take:

1. Hand tools.
2. machines that keep the hands out of the way of any cutter, such as horizontal slot cutter, router machines like the Multirouter or Pantarouter.
3. router using a template jig and guide bushing or plunge router with edge guide
4. stops fixed to fence on the router table and lowering/levering the work onto the cutter
5. stops fixed to the table and rip fence and lowering/levering the work onto the dado on the table saw.

Any other methods of work?

Goodwin, thank you for bringing your injury to the group for others to learn from -- that is potentially very useful for others to learn from your misfortune and it isn't easy to see all of the Monday morning quarterbacking.

I would omit item #5. Or reword it to sy raise the dado up into the workpiece.

[Edward Weber]

Thank you for the clarification.
I won't go into all what if's, but it sounds as if a simple set of stop blocks clamped securely could have made the difference, no way to tell.

I really hope some people will take away some insight into what goes into making a cut safely.
How to determine if a cut is or isn't safe and how or if they should proceed.

Heal quickly, work safely