You guys need to see this dream shop!

[Dev Emch]

O.K. I hope I am not breaking any more rules as i am so good at doing this. But boy do I have a treat for you guys tonight! Hop on over to your favorate online auction source whoose name starts with an E and has four letters. See, keith, I didnt say it.:D But then do a search for vintage delta rockwell. Check out what pops up. Caution, I am not responsible for the resulting heart attacks, keyboard druel accidents or any other medical mishap that happens from checking out this tool porno.:D Should you purchase this package and your wife leaves you, once again, I am not responsible for this mid life accident.

[Tim Marks]

I could be wrong, but I think this is the same "dream workshop" that this guy has been advertising for almost a year.

There is some sort of scam involved here. My guess is:
1. advertising gimmick to draw people to his ebay store, they drool on the workshop, which nobody can afford (since he refuses to "split it up") and then click on his store, and buy a collection of chisels or what not (I think this is the truth).
2. he actually is selling his tools individually even though he says he won't split it up, and he is cheating ebay by making private individual sales of one tool at a time, and not paying auction fees (I doubt #2 is the truth).

The bottom line; those people who are really interested in quality machinery like this already have alot of what he is selling, so won't buy it. Those starting out would never spend this much dough to begin with. I think it is an advertising gimmick.

[Bill Simmeth]

Yes, you are wrong. This is the fourth shop that the gentleman has assembled and is selling. The previous three sold.

[Allen Grimes]

I dont believe it either.

It just doesnt make sense that someone would go through all that trouble to restore all of those machines and then just sell it off. I could understand if the guy needed the money and urgently, but if that was the case the logical thing to do would be to sell it piece by piece.

That has to be a scam.

That said, that is one hell of a shop.

[Dev Emch]

I plead guilty. I actually know this guy. He is a hard core OWWMer who is anal about restoration. This is the third or fourth shop Tim has done and each time he has a central theme. He actually helped me with an ekstrom carlson 112 problem regarding the line boring of a bushing for the oscillation shafts. No, he is for real. I think his hobby is the hunt and restoration of a complete shop following a central theme. I do recall seeing one of the drill presses completely apart on the bench following painting, machine work and bearings and polishing. It looked like a brain surgen at work. Every part neatly staged and dealt with. What puzzles me is if he actually does wood work. Where is the dust? Or is it that the grizzly collector is so good that it sucks down every morscle of stray wood fiber.:D

[Allen Grimes]

Ok Dev, I believe you.

I have some questions now. Why build such a complete shop, just to sell it? I mean I can understand restoring tools, but he also has Jorgy bar clamps included. Why buy those to sell? That doesnt make sense.

[Jarrod Nelson]

I wouldn't trust anyone with a shop that messy. ;)

[Roger Los]

I bet it would be a lot of fun to assemble a shop time and again, doing it a little bit different each time.

Dunno who the customer would be, though. Maybe me, if I had another $44,500 to spend, as most of that stuff is nicer than anything I own. :P The car restoration hobby has a number of businesses that sell complete shops from cabinets to lifts to wrenches, etc., for $six-figures to guys who will probably not use them much but just want one, and can afford it.

[Dev Emch]

I dont get it either. It makes my head hurt just thinking about inventorying the small stuff. But its a package deal delievered to your door. And its a collection of already finished vintage delta rockwell machines. I am sure that there are a number of corporate execs who love woodworking and would drop 45K on a package deal like this. Or maybe some aspen or vail types. Stranger things have happened! Barbra Striesand droped way more than this amount on a single turn of the century Stickley furniture piece. Stickley was always about using power stationary tools along with hand tools to finish so its not like buying a goddard or townsend or chippendale. Heck, it may be just shy of 100 years old even today. So who knows. But who ever buys this shop will have one major difference over most OWWMers..... they may actually do wood work.:D

[Allen Grimes]

I guess its really no different than building a bedroom or diningroom set and including all the hardware. The more I think about it the more reasonable it seems, but it still baffels me at the same time.

Maybe he likes the way it feels to sell sombody a shop that they dont need to add anything to (exept more clamps).

[Vaughn McMillan]

Quite the shop, Dev. Thanks for sharing it, and for the backstory that goes with it. Like you, I don't fully understand his motivation, but then again he probably doesn't understand mine, either. ;)

- Vaughn

[Howard Barlow]

I bid $7 cash. I think I'm gonna win.:p

[Randy Meijer]

I think the guy owns stock in a paint company and is trying to drive the price up by purchasing 8,000 gallans of gray paint!!:D

[Dev Emch]

I think the guy owns stock in a paint company and is trying to drive the price up by purchasing 8,000 gallans of gray paint!!:D

Duelly noted. It was once asked why all big name american companies painted their machines that strange green color? Jeff M. whose family owns Northfield told me that one of the companies bought a massive amount of vista green paint from a goverment auction and began using it. Soon, everybody followed.

[scott spencer]

That's an amazing shop! If he restored those machines himself, he ought to get some sort of a lifetime achievement award! He did an unbelievable job....if I had that kinda of money, I'd drop it on that shop in a heartbeat!

[Mike House]

Howard, you lucky dog!! I was going to bid $7.25 and beat you out of that shop, but I only have $6.95 and my wife wouldn't loan me the extra 30 cents. Rats! I think you ARE going to win. Have fun with your new shop! Uncle Levi

[John Weber]

All his shops have been awesome. His hobby is rebuilding woodworking equipment, nothing wrong with that. People enjoy looking what he has done, and he has sold at least 3 complete shops already, so the guy seems to know what he is doing on all accounts - buying, restoring, setting up, and selling. I think it's cool.

John

[Jim Dunn]

It is a dream of a shop. In every detail! But I don't get it? If this fellow is selling his whole shop, including Delta drills, chisels and all the other non delta stuff, it looks like he's going completely out of business. Or is he doing this to round out the shop with everything you could possibly need to have a full house of tools?

Jim

[Michael Gibbons]

Just by looking ,I believe that price is a reasonable figure. You have to take in account all the little tools that add up .For instance to 18 piece Pfeil carving tools would run around $800.00,and that is just one item. The Tormek basic kit is $400.00. Figure it out.

[Richard Wolf]

I don't know, this whole thing just doesn't sit well with me. I know I'm a cynic and skeptic, not to mention a grumpy old f**t. Why would anybody buy all those added items to drive the price up to make the sale unreachable to most people. Maybe do it once for fun, but 4 times? Very difficult for me to understand, but I've never been accused of being very understanding.

Richard

[Howard Barlow]

Howard, you lucky dog!! I was going to bid $7.25 and beat you out of that shop, but I only have $6.95 and my wife wouldn't loan me the extra 30 cents. Rats! I think you ARE going to win. Have fun with your new shop! Uncle Levi

Heh, heh, heh... She charged me $2.78 to get her to hide that 30¢.:D

[Dev Emch]

I don't know, this whole thing just doesn't sit well with me. I know I'm a cynic and skeptic, not to mention a grumpy old f**t. Why would anybody buy all those added items to drive the price up to make the sale unreachable to most people. Maybe do it once for fun, but 4 times? Very difficult for me to understand, but I've never been accused of being very understanding.

Richard
Richard...
Your problem is that you are a normal person. You work hard for a living and you know the relative worth of a dollar. But what do you do with guys who run companies like Tyco? When your signing bonus is 2 million dollars and your compensation package is well north of 7 million dollars per year. And you never see the guy in the hallways because he is working out legal issues with his lawyers regarding the stock manipulation of companies like zerox where he was once a VP. That was my last honest of goodness CEO. He has a FLEET of autos and picks one each day as one picks out which shirt your going to put on. They are all all black and chrome. He has a Mercedes, a Hummer H1, a BMW, a Jag, an Audi and some itallian job. Almost 300,000 dollars worth of autos and its all paid for. So when a VP gets a hankerin for making a doll house for his dog to sleep in, of course he is going to have to have the dream wood shop. So he writes a check for $45,000 dollars and now has something... but more more importantly, he has something that no other person has. And there in lies the true inner secret of why this scheme works. The buyer has neither the skills, the knowlege base, the connections nor the time to hunt down and restore old iron. So you see one night parties that cost the host 45,000 or 50,000 dollars all the time around here. Not me! I may have some nice old tools and what not but the first thing I need to think about is ROI. Return On Investment. If that number is negative and south, I am outta here. Reminds me of a buddy of mine who wheels and deals old iron. He bought a super nice Oakly oscisslating edge sander in super duper mint condition. When I asked him where he got it, his reply was that he bought it from a VP of Rockwell Aerospace. This was his personal shop machine and he had bought it new. But he wanted the slightly larger and newer model so he sold off his old beater of a unit. If that beater had more than 20 hours on the hobbs, I would be amazed. Not a scratch in the paint or one the machined surfaces.

You think Tim has 45,000 dollars tied up in this shop? NO WAY. He does have time and who knows what value he places on it esp. if this is a hobby. But more importantly, he gets away with this because our culture spawns and nurtures the type of individual who ultimately does pay this figure and thinks he got a good deal doing it. Do you think this scheme would work if he had all brand new X5 delta machines or grizzly machines? NO WAY! Not because they are better or worse than what he has but because of the rarity of what he has.

[Barry O'Mahony]

he has a Grizzly tool included in the list!

This might take awhile to sell. Now if it was 1999, he'd have no problem. Back then in the hi-tech field, even secretaries could be heard saying things like, "it's only 5 thousand dollars". sigh.

[Dev Emch]

he has a Grizzly tool included in the list!

This might take awhile to sell. Now if it was 1999, he'd have no problem. Back then in the hi-tech field, even secretaries could be heard saying things like, "it's only 5 thousand dollars". sigh.

How very true. In 1999, it was more of a seller's market for this stuff. Now, its a buyer's market. So much vintage stuff has been dumped on the market that you can be much more picky and haggle the price. Its like that guy selling a wadkin PK on our favorate online fl(E)e market on the shores of the bay. Several guys I know who sell machines including my buddy who sold me over half of my machines frankly thinks the guy is smoking hemp or living in anther dimension. His words and not mine. I can get two mint oliver table saws (red eagle 232s or 270s) for what he is asking. And these have no mechanical problems like washer shims to adjust for bent tilt shafts and they have all the parts. Parts like mitre gages, quadrant gages (as needed), rack and pinnon fences made by oliver and not tannewitz. Tannewitz is great but on a tannewitz. Would you buy an aston martin with a chevy motor transplant?

[Matt Meiser]

But what do you do with guys who run companies like Tyco?

Can't they use the shop in the prison?

[Bill Simmeth]

How very true. In 1999, it was more of a seller's market for this stuff. Now, its a buyer's market.True in general, but Tim's last complete shop sold in late 2004, IIRC, and things weren't much better then. To the guys in Tim's target market, buying a shop full of Delta is "scrimping" instead of buying a shop full of Oliver....

Parts like mitre gages, quadrant gages (as needed), rack and pinnon fences made by oliver and not tannewitz. Tannewitz is great but on a tannewitz. Would you buy an aston martin with a chevy motor transplant?Such heresy!! Are you saying:
Oliver == Aston-Martin
Tannewitz == Chevy
??? ;) :D

[Dev Emch]

True in general, but Tim's last complete shop sold in late 2004, IIRC, and things weren't much better then. To the guys in Tim's target market, buying a shop full of Delta is "scrimping" instead of buying a shop full of Oliver....
Such heresy!! Are you saying:
Oliver == Aston-Martin
Tannewitz == Chevy
??? ;) :D

No! Tannewitz is one of the best saw made. At least the J models. I dont really like the newer ones that look very boxy. You gotta have some curves to fill out that 18 hour support look.:D

But a tannewitz fence belongs on a tannewitz saw if the saw is selling for an above market value.

[Bill Simmeth]

In case anyone thinks the old machines Tim is selling are simply sporting a rattle can refinish, here's an example of the level of detail he undertakes. This is the OSS in the current offering...
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=3324

Dev... I knew what you meant, just needed to pull your chain about the Chevy analogy.

[Jim Dunn]

Matt ROFLMAO:):):).

[Dev Emch]

Can't they use the shop in the prison?

Not this one. Did you see all those sharpie pointy looking tools? This shop would give the wardens a life time valleum presription.

[Dev Emch]

In case anyone thinks the old machines Tim is selling are simply sporting a rattle can refinish, here's an example of the level of detail he undertakes. This is the OSS in the current offering...
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=3324

Dev... I knew what you meant, just needed to pull your chain about the Chevy analogy.

Note that there are guys out there who go the extra mile to restore these machines. When I do it, I take it all the way down to cast iron. Then each part is added on only if it meets brand new. original equipment specs. If not, its either replaced or re-machined until it does. Items that rotate are balanced. Bearings are replaced with the best bearings i can find. When you do this enough, you get conections to help take the sting off the retail list price of ABEC 7 bearings!!!! I am currently working on a northfield jointer restore and I am not happy with the cutter head. Looks great but its not show room new. So I will most likey remove two thosandths of an inch using coolant and high speed, finish cut carbide on my hardinge HLV-EM lathe spinning at about 2000 RPM. This produces an almost mirror like finish. Similar work is done on all turnings except for bearing journals. They are cleaned up but you cannot just take metal off as the bearing may be sloppy if you do. When done right, the machines are in better condition than when they left the factory. You should have no sign that an end user had ever used the machine. Most folks do not go to this extreme and you wind up with a rattle can finish. The biggest tip off is when a machine shippped out of england with a charcoal gray finish and is up for sale looking like an egg out of a fat robin's nest.

[Richard Wolf]

Can't they use the shop in the prison?

Great line, LMAO.

Richard

[Peter M. Spirito]

Where's the coffee pot:p

[Dev Emch]

Where's the coffee pot:p

Yes, your right. How could I forget. But then its been said about me that people need to keep the caffine away from me. How do you tell difference between to much caffine and just being excited? I dont know. Never been excited in the absence of caffine.

[Troy Wilkins]

I just noticed that he is only 45 miles away from me. If I get the chance I might give him a call and see if I can take a field trip. Personally I get too attached to my projects and I end up hoarding them even if I end up with multiples of the same item.

[Rob Blaustein]

Can't figure out how that guy got into my shop to snap those pics--I really must beef up security at the compound...

[Peter Gavin]

I could see this being the perfect opportunity for the right person. If I was getting ready to retire and building a new house where I could fit everything, who is to say that spending 45K on a shop delivered to my door wouldn't be worth it. I could sell the assorted junk I've currently got accumlated and not have to move it. How much would just the Stanley 750s go for if purchased separately? And furthermore, unless you trashed them they would probably hold their value very well until such time as you decided to unload them. How many people buy cars for 25 or 35K and think nothing of it when they wear out in 5 or 6 years. To me, this would be a much more satisfying purchase than a BMW.

Peter

[Keith Starosta]

I could see this being the perfect opportunity for the right person. If I was getting ready to retire and building a new house where I could fit everything, who is to say that spending 45K on a shop delivered to my door wouldn't be worth it. I could sell the assorted junk I've currently got accumlated and not have to move it. How much would just the Stanley 750s go for if purchased separately? And furthermore, unless you trashed them they would probably hold their value very well until such time as you decided to unload them. How many people buy cars for 25 or 35K and think nothing of it when they wear out in 5 or 6 years. To me, this would be a much more satisfying purchase than a BMW.

Peter

I absolutely agree. I was showing this thread to my wife, and all she said was, "...someday".

.........sigh.........:( :o


- Keith

[Dan Oelke]

I think it might make for an interesting magazine article to see a follow up to the sale of a turnkey shop. Where are the tools 1 or 5 years after the sale???

[Tim Shetler]

Hi Everyone,
My name is Tim Shetler. I just joined the group after reading this thread. I have lurked around on this site for a couple years now and enjoy seeing your projects and reading your stories. This is a great site for WWers. Keep up the good work!
The reason for this post is that I am the guy that this thread is about. Welcome to my midlife crisis.:confused: My complete woodshop auctions have generated alot of speculation and confusion over the years, so I am trying to set the record straight on the sites that I visit.
I basically grew up in my dads cabinet shop and went to work full time at 16 years old, building cabinets and furniture. By the time I was 23, my interest shifted to antique furniture restoration. Now I am 45 years old and have owned and operated an antique furniture repair/restoration business since 1983. A few years ago we were having trouble making ends meet. We decided to sell our property and downsize. We also decided to sell my tool collection instead of storing it during the move. After selling that 1st woodshop collection in 2003, I decided to re-tool and continue with my furniture resto business. Well, by the next year, my business had turned into a part-time job at best.
To make a long story longer, this is the 4th vintage woodshop collection that I have restored and am selling in as many years. I love restoring these old machines but in all honesty, it is a labor of love that keeps me doing it. Considering the amount of time and money it takes to complete one of these shops to my standards, there isn’t much left in the profit column. I am keeping an eye out for a decent job to build some kind of retirement but I am finding out that being self-employed your whole adult life is the last thing that most companies want to see on a job application. So, until a good opportunity does comes along, I will no doubt continue to repair/restore furniture and to restore tools to sell in order to survive.
The tools that I choose to include in the shop are the tools that I need/want/use for my business. The reason that I will only sell it as a package is simple: Until it sells, I have a complete shop to work in. When it sells, I always have the option of re-tooling or going another direction with my life, which will hopefully happen this spring.
Please don’t take this wrong as I am not complaining. I am very blessed to have my health and family including my wife of 25 years, 2 grown children and 3 wonderful grandchildren. I just wanted to clear up some confusion concerning myself and my "vintage woodshop" auctions. I have confused alot of people over the last 3 years, rightfully so, but it was never my intention to do so.
Sincerely, Tim

PS. I have also read speculation that I am not even a woodworker but a machinist. Not true. While it is true that I don't build things very often any more, every now and then I get a crazy idea and create something different that I haven't built before. I built this window shelf last year to go with our native indian decor. Kind of weird I know but some people seem to like it.
Anyway, good luck to all with your woodworking. There are alot of talented people here on this site. My hat is off to all of you who enjoy working with wood. Sorry for the long post.
http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/tshetler/win1.jpg

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/tshetler/win2.jpg

[Richard Wolf]

Thanks for the explaination. Here's a thought, I can see a market for your skills with the window treatment. Beautiful.

Richard

[Dev Emch]

Tim...
Welcome aboard! Glad to see your answering this thread. We all love this iteration of a shop! But I still like that other one better... the one in which you had that ekstrom carlson with the green four leaf clover leaf insignia. Boy was that a nice machine!!!!! Its the one machine that I am still in search of. Ekstrom Carlson 112-As are not a proflific as other brands for sure. Once again, welcome and job well done.

[Bill Simmeth]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for posting. People think I'm nuts when I tell them this is the 4th shop you've put up for sale. Some think it's the same shop over and over again. They must not look at the tools closely if they do!

I was wondering if you might comment on the nice panels you crafted for the Delta open stands. The art deco motif complements the machines nicely. How are the raised ares fabricated?

Thanks,

[Tim Shetler]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for posting. People think I'm nuts when I tell them this is the 4th shop you've put up for sale. Some think it's the same shop over and over again. They must not look at the tools closely if they do!

I was wondering if you might comment on the nice panels you crafted for the Delta open stands. The art deco motif complements the machines nicely. How are the raised ares fabricated?

Thanks,

Richard and Dev, Thanks for the welcome and the kind words. I appeciate it. Yes those EC 112s are nice machines. I just couldn't seem to land one this time around.
Bill, You think people think you are nuts, they think that I am ready for a straight-jacket. The sad part is that they may be right !
I panelled those stands because I truely hate them. The panels are nothing special. I just used plywood for the panel and pine for the deco motif and painted them. The machines don't run any better but it is easier for me to look at them. I am going to put a bank of long drawers in the scrollsaw stand for blades and patterns. I also thought about a door on the side of the Foredom stand and build some racks inside for bits but haven't got to it yet.
Tim Shetler
Idaho

[Keith Outten]

Welcome Tim,

Your woodworking is creative, innovative and a very interesting style. Thanks for the pictures.

[John Bailey]

Kind of weird I know but some people seem to like it.

Tim,

Seems like you're a master machinist, master woodworker and master of the understatement. Welcome aboard, we're glad you're here. The work is great and I guess I'm one of those weirdos who like it.

John

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Geez how did I miss this thread until now...?

Tim, welcome, you are truly talented.

I've seen your other workshop auctions over the years, and I've been so impressed by your work. I too very much like old iron, but I do not go to the loving lengths that you do.

Cheers!