New turner - advice on next steps

[Keith Nordyke]

I took a three day course a month or so back and really enjoyed turning. The next step is to plunge in and get a lathe, a chuck, some tools and start making shavings. The advice I was given and intuited from my course was to get the largest and heaviest lathe you can as the small stuff can be created on a large lathe but large stuff can't be done on a small lathe. Unless the collective wisdom of the forum convinces me otherwise, after a lot of internet searching the Laguna 1836 seems to be at the price point that won't ruin the marriage. The Super Nova 2 appears to be a chuck that would keep me occupied for a while although I am confused as to the threading. The Laguna is a 1 1/4 x 8 TPI and I am not sure I know the threading of the chuck. I know I'll need the 50 mm jaws and cole jaws. I'll have to decide on tools but am inclined to bite the bullet and get the best I can at this time.

So, what am I missing? Any advice re: the lathe?

Am I missing anything regarding the chuck? Although there are a number of packages with the Super Nova 2, they don't seem to include both cole jaws and the 50 mm/2 inch jaws.

Finally, I'm looking around the shop and the house for things I can make round. I'm struck by the large stack of pecan firewood that I have dry and under cover. Although not "square" is there any reason that I can't play with smaller pieces of that pecan even though not symmetrical? A faceplate could easily secure such a piece, I think.

[Russell Nugent]

When you buy a supernova you buy an insert with it that fits in the chuck, so you'll want to buy the 1 1/4 x 8tpi threaded insert. It's pretty standard these days. Not sure if the supernova comes as a direct thread option.
I had a laguna 1224 and liked it, never tried a bigger one. I've got a nova saturn lathe. I like it but it's a little light weight. I added a shelf on the legs and every time I do a lead sleeve removal on a large phone cable I add another 40 to 80 pounds to it.
Sounds like your pecan firewood would make good spindle practice as long as it's safe and not cracked.

[John K Jordan]

I wrote something then lost it with an internet problem - I’ll try again.

I see Russell wrote about the chuck inserts. I prefer chucks with inserts since I can simply switch out the insert and use the chuck on a different lathe, or loan it to someone with a different lathe. Most of my chucks are SN2 and they do everything I need. I do have a variety of jaws for both large and small things.

I have the Cole jaws and used them for a short while then took them off and never used them again. They are very limited in the size and shape of what then can effectively hold. I far prefer other methods for holding - most of what I like to turn can’t be held in Cole jaws. I haven’t seen a bundle that includes the Cole jaws.

You can easily turn firewood (and tree limbs), but if split it’s better turned with the grain aligned with the lathe bed, often called “end grain” turning or spindle turning. The blank is not best held with a faceplate since screws don’t always hold well in end grain. Better to turn it between centers or even better, temporarily hold it between centers and turn a tenon on one end to hold securely in the chuck while supporting the other end with the tailstock, at least temporarily.

BTW, although many people start by turning bowls, often from green wood, some respected experts recommend a new turner become proficient with spindle turning before moving to bowls or platters (face turning, where the gran runs across the face of the blank, perpendicular to the lathe bed). Spindle turning can quickly teach you the fine tool control that will let you turn anything.

I personally prefer to turn relatively small things from dry wood. If you want to take a look I have a photo album here on SMC with three pages of some examples: https://sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=862

If you have a bandsaw you can cut turning blanks from green wood tree sections, let them dry, and you will soon have more useful wood that you can turn! I’ve been doing that for a long time. A few pictures here: https://sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=983

After the lathe and the basic turning tools, I think the bandsaw is the most important tool for a woodturner.

I don’t have experience with the lathe you mentioned but from what I’ve read it should be fine.

Also, you might put your location in your profile here - there may well be turners near you who would gladly give you some useful wood to get started. The best possible thing is to join a local turning club. They typically have a lot of people ready to answer question and help any way they can. Clubs can be a good source of turning wood.

JKJ

[roger wiegand]

My best and strongest advice is to join your local AAW chapter. This will provide you with mentors, opportunities to visit different shops and try different lathes, sources for used machines and tools as well, likely, as free wood. Our chapter, for example, provides loaner lathes, chucks and tools to new turners to allow them to get their feet wet and see what they like doing prior to investing in a machine of their own. If you fall in love with pen turning you don't necessarily need a 3 ton lathe. If you find segmenting suits your fancy you may want to prioritize other tools that allow you to make accurate segmented rings over the lathe itself.

[Kevin Jenness]

I would second what John K. says about Cole jaws. Mine are gathering dust. A simple friction chuck will allow you to reverse turn most forms.

Also, join a club and/or find a mentor if you can. It helps in sourcing wood as well as sharing experiences. Following the AAW forum can be helpful too. I have learned a lot from Youtube videos by Brian Havens, Lyle Jamieson, Al Hockenbery, John Lucas, Robo Hippy, Cyndi Drozda and Mike Waldt among others. Remember, practice makes permanent, so follow a good model to avoid bad habits.

Do you have a sharpening system? A slow speed bench grinder with CBN wheels and a Wolverine jig system or similar is a good investment.

Good steel is worth paying for. You can do a lot with a bowl gouge, a spindle gouge and a parting tool.

Be prepared to see your investment in a lathe eclipsed by tools and gadgets. Worse than a shaper.

Be safe. Wear a face shield and stay out of the line of fire.

[Dave Keele]

Am I missing anything regarding the chuck? Although there are a number of packages with the Super Nova 2, they don't seem to include both cole jaws and the 50 mm/2 inch jaws.



https://woodworkerspecialties.biz/product/nova-supernova-2-23270-woodlathe-chuck-with-12-bowl-jaws-and-more-insert-type-with-insert/

[Keith Nordyke]

Thanks for the advice! I'm probably going to pull the trigger on the Laguna next week. Is there any particular advice as to brand/model of face shield?

[Edward Weber]

I have the Cole jaws and used them for a short while then took them off and never used them again. They are very limited in the size and shape of what then can effectively hold. I far prefer other methods for holding - most of what I like to turn can’t be held in Cole jaws. I haven’t seen a bundle that includes the Cole jaws.

JKJ

"They are very limited in the size and shape of what then can effectively hold"

This is just factually untrue.
By changing the buttons or buffers, whatever you want to call them, a wide variety of non- circular shapes can be held. By adding wooden sub-jaws, you open up another large range of items that can be held.
While they don't hold "everything" and nothing does, I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand. There is almost no limit to the shape of jaws you can make.

Just an example of jaws for spheres, cubes and 24" flat jaws
482436s482435482437

http://www.woodturnersresource.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1502986843/all

[John K Jordan]

"They are very limited in the size and shape of what then can effectively hold"

This is just factually untrue.

Actually my statement is factually true for standard “off the shelf” Nova Cole jaws - in my experience and opinion, of course. Yours may differ.

And yes, we can always build something that will hold things the std Cole jaws cannot. Much depends on the exact piece turned.

Keith,
There is a book that covers lots of holding methods, great ideas for starting out.
Fixtures and Chucks for Woodturning by Doc Green
https://smile.amazon.com/Fixtures-Chucks-Woodturning-Everything-Wood-Holder/dp/1565235193

JKJ

[Neil Strong]

Cole jaws wouldn't be a priority for me if I was still in the early stages of setting up.

Mine are rarely used, however, they do come out occasionally where they are the quickest holding method at some stages on some projects, but not essential.

If at a later stage you think you do need them it is very easy to make your own flat Cole jaws, like the 3rd photo in Edward's post, in ply, plastic or metal.

And, if you are into DIY projects, there are many plans out there on how to make the Longworth version that was developed down our way...

https://www.carbatec.com.au/article/266/how-to-make-a-longworth-chuck

[tom lucas]

I too think that cole jaws would be a low priority purchase item. Once you've invested every penny you have in all the other stuff you'll "need", then you can buy some cole jaws :). My experience with the Nova Cole's is that the stock buttons don't hold so well. I replaced mine with one-way buttons - much better hold. And yes you can make taller "buttons" in a number of different fashions for the rare time that you'll need them. Many just jam chuck instead. I have 2 SN2's and a titan III. Descent chucks for the money but not as good as my vicmarc 120. The jaw quality difference is markedly obvious.

[Neil Strong]

My experience with the Nova Cole's is that the stock buttons don't hold so well. I replaced mine with one-way buttons - much better hold.

I replaced my buttons with soft white rubber caps (the sort you push onto the bottom of chair legs and walking sticks) fitted over short lengths of unused broom stick. They grip well and don't mark a finished surface...


482463

[Dwayne Watt]

Don't overlook dust protection along with a solid face shield. I went with the Trend Airshield to get benefit of face protection and dust filtration in a positive air pressure environment. No face shield fog up occurs so reasonably comfortable to use (about the same weight as a welding helmet).
Alternately, wear N95 dust masks along with your faceshield. Masks with one way valves are comfortable and perfectly appropriate in the workshop.

[Edward Weber]

IMO,
Cole Jaws are simply a blank canvas to make them anything you want. you can endlessly modify them to fit your needs.
It makes no difference to me what people use to hold their work but for someone starting out, I wouldn't discourage them from trying anything. Who knows. the OP may find cole jaws as useful as I do.

[roger wiegand]

I use my cole jaws a lot less now that I have a vacuum chuck, but found them indispensable for certain tasks before that. The pyramidal "buttons" on the Vicmarc are much more effective than the typical round buttons. I still use them when the wood won't hold a vacuum well.

That said they wouldn't be on my list of first things to acquire. You can do vey well with a friction drive where the workpiece is held between centers using a non-marring surface on the drive end, or by making jam chucks that exactly fit your bowl on either the inside or outside diameter. Cole jaws (and the other variants like doughnut or Longworth), vacuum chucks, and true jam chucks are the ways I know of to have unrestricted access to the bottom of your bowl for finishing. Most people get by fine with friction drives and not being able to easily reach and shape the inside rim of the foot.

[Darryl Hansen]

first after lathe face shield best with pressure like the Trend next and most importantly cbn wheel and sharpening system then break the bank with tools cole down the list.Just me 2 cents from experience like yours.

[Peter Blair]

A lot of good advise for sure. I agree, I have a set of Cole jaws but don't use them. I guess I should sell but I seem to hoard tools. As soon as I started using my vacuum chuck the Cole became obsolete to me.

[Keith Nordyke]

Thanks to all that have responded Another question:
I've now turned a number of pine 2 x 4 pieces (cut to 1.5 x 1.5") and it acts just like you would expect cheap pine to act. It has been fun and a good chance to work with the roughing gouge, spindle gouge and the last piece I turned round and made beads with the skew. I just took a piece of split pecan from the wood pile and cut it "somewhat" square on the bandsaw. It isn't completely straight or 4S. I assume that as long as I have it between centers and start slow, there is no reason not to play with this? If I am about to put my eye out or otherwise create havoc, please let me know. The piece is NOT symmetrical even after the bandsaw. Thoughts?

[John K Jordan]

The wood doesn’t have to be symmetrical or even centered! In fact intentional off-axis turning is popular. You are right to use a low speed at least when starting. Spindle turning is quite safe; a problem and the wood usually just falls away, unlike a heavy bowl blank that can ruin your day (or life). Of course, always wear safety glasses or other eye protection.

One thing I always recommend: if practical, hold one end of the blank firmly in a chuck, with the other end either held with the live center or not held at all, depending on the length and diameter. This may require a few extra sets of jaws. I keep chucks with jaw sets (always mounted) that will let me grip almost any diameter, such as the Nova 35 and 45mm jaws, various pin jaws, and a few others. I could check which I find the most useful if you’d like, probably later this week. (There are some other good ways to hold spindles for turning, maybe a topic for another day.)

When I turn small things like these small finger tops I might use a long enough blank to make two or three without the tailstock.

https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=373983&d=1513474917

BTW, if you haven’t tried them, finger tops are a good turning exercise AND great for gifts. I always take some when I travel and have met some wonderful people through them.

I made these years ago to illustrate the basic procedure:

https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=340018&d=1467259370

I turn, sand, and apply finish in stages since once you get to the handle you can’t go back and touch the earlier parts. You might think to just turn out the other way, handle first, but for several reasons the I prefer this way.

Pine can be wonderful turning wood, but I usually prefer hard, fine grained wood. If turning small things, even relatively expensive exotic woods are affordable.

If the blank is straight and square it can be held securely with four-jaw chucks. But if the wood is “somewhat” or not even remotely square I usually start by holding it between centers (you can test different center positions rotating by hand before committing) then turn a tenon on one end to fit your jaws. Holding one end adds both security and minimizes vibration from flexing, especially with thin spindles.

JKJ



Thanks to all that have responded Another question:
I've now turned a number of pine 2 x 4 pieces (cut to 1.5 x 1.5") and it acts just like you would expect cheap pine to act. It has been fun and a good chance to work with the roughing gouge, spindle gouge and the last piece I turned round and made beads with the skew. I just took a piece of split pecan from the wood pile and cut it "somewhat" square on the bandsaw. It isn't completely straight or 4S. I assume that as long as I have it between centers and start slow, there is no reason not to play with this? If I am about to put my eye out or otherwise create havoc, please let me know. The piece is NOT symmetrical even after the bandsaw. Thoughts?

[Peter Blair]

John has as usual provided excellent advise and information. I would echo his comments!

[Keith Nordyke]

So I should be OK turning between centers on the headstock spur until I whittle it down sufficiently for a tenon that I can chuck? Just be careful and stand to the side while spinning up?

[Robert Hayward]

Yes, you should be good doing as you describe. I realize you are just starting and are looking at a ton of accessories to buy. A face shield should be high on your list, as others have mentioned. John mentioned safety glasses but a full face shield is offers much better protection. You can get a reasonable good one for about $20. A much better quality face shield is the one pictured. This one was about $35 and has a replaceable shield.

[Tim Elett]

Also the face shield is useful when sharpening tools, I use mine while ripping boards on table saw ,,or using chain saw. Get one!

[Neil Strong]

Of course, always wear safety glasses or other eye protection.



This is the [Like Button], which I would press if this forum software had it...;)

[John K Jordan]

... A face shield should be high on your list, as others have mentioned. John mentioned safety glasses but a full face shield is offers much better protection. ...

I agree, I have 4 or 5 face shields and offer them to students and visitors when turning boxes, bowls, platters, and larger spindles.

This girl is turning a lidded box from a rather chunky blank. The box came out nice!
483111 483112

This visitor from Italy wanted to make a large ring keeper from heavy, exotic wood. A face shield seemed appropriate.
483110

But for thinner spindles, I wear safety glasses mostly to keep dust out of my eyes. In thousands of spindles I've never even had one bump me if it broke - it just falls away. Most of mine are small diameter, usually from 2x2, 1x1 or smaller and sometimes 12-14" long. If encountering a hidden defect while turning a thin spindle, the tool is between me and the wood so if the wood breaks it tends to fall away from me. A thin spindle But I can see how a larger spindle blank might bounce around a bit if pried off the lathe with a big catch.

The real danger from a lathe is the amount of energy stored in the rotating wood, a function of the mass, the diameter, and the rotational speed - that's why a heavy bowl or platter blank can be quite dangerous if it comes apart or is pried out of the chuck. But a thin spindle has relatively little energy, even when turned at high speeds, so I always safety glasses or goggles. Same with the bandsaw - it's doesn't throw projectiles like a table saw so I wear safety glasses.

For some other shop activities, not wearing a full face shield is insane! Grinding steel: always. Drilling metals and sharpening tools: a good idea. The worst is wire brushing, especially on a bench grinder - the short needle-like steel wires often break loose and shoot out radially at high speeds - oops, embedded right in the eye ball. A face shield is recommended when working with toxic chemicals, especially those that can burn skin or eyes. I have a couple of full-face 3M respirators with good poly-carbonate shields and cartridges made for chemicals.

Another good but off-topic use for a full face shield: working with a wild llama! Contrary to what some believe llamas don't spit at people unless they are tormented. I had a wild one once that came with a tick on her nose. She was so terrified of being constrained it took me days to get a rope around her neck and then put a halter on her so I could work on her. Spit, spit, spit! (Llama spit is a blast of regurgitated 1/2 digested stomach contents. A full face shield kept the nasty stuff off my face!)

JKJ

[John King]

Don't spend a dime on woodturning equipment/tools/accessories until you have joined a nearby woodturning club. Talk to club members. Woodturners are known for information sharing. Visit a club member's shop. Most will allow you to try their setup. Many clubs have mentors that will gladly help you out in your woodturning journey. Patience on the front end will be handsomely rewarded when you setup your woodturning shop.

PS - I speak from experience. I have owned two bandsaws, two drill presses and two of many woodturning tools/accessories because I ran headlong into woodturning before pausing to learn from club mentors. - J

[Keith Nordyke]

Thanks! The face-shield arrived today and is now in use.

[George Yetka]

Dont forget to tip your garbage handler. You turners make a lot of dust/chips

[Randy Heinemann]

Your initial question was about adequacy of a lathe in terms of size and weight. If you are convinced that turning is a long-term interest then I would say that buying the best lathe you can afford is a good idea, especially with regard to swing capacity and overall weight (although there are ways to make any lather heavier). However, I began turning and decided that I spend a much lesser amount before determining whether I really wanted to do a lot of turning long-term (being a long-time woodworker who made furniture and cabinets, etc.) The Nova Comet II served me for about 3 years before I decided that turning was something that I really wanted to do. During that time I turned a lot of bowls (no spindles as I have no interest in spindles), all the way up to close to the lathe's 12" capacity. Mind you, I'm not recommending Nova lathes, just size to try out the whole thing. After 3 years, I moved up to a Powermatic 3520C, which I would never regret. The PM lathe would allow me to do anything I want, but it is also over 700 pounds and hardly ever even vibrates. So, long term weight and capacity are important.

As for cole jaws, I have a set and used them frequently when I used a recess in the bottom to hold the blank and with smaller bowls. With larger bowls, it's much harder to secure them to work on the bottom than with small bowls and now, I can't remember the last time I used them. So, for larger pieces, I wouldn't recommend them.

As for chucks, I have several Nova chucks but I'd say the only reason I have them instead of another brand, is because the G3 chuck came with my Nova Comet lathe. When I moved up to the Powermatic, I thought seriously about changing but had enough invested in Nova jaw sets that I decided to just buy a larger Nova chuck. There is nothing wrong with them but I think there are better chucks out there. I'm sure others have their own recommendations. Almost all Nova chucks require adapter collars to match the 8X1 1/4" thread, but it's not a big deal. I have all my chucks adapted to my Powermatic so they all work.

My best advice is to think things through like you're doing at every step. Turning, like most woodworking, can be very expensive. So, when buying chucks or tools, buy them sparingly and, before buying more, use the ones you have until your needs change or you feel you need an upgrade.

[Edward Weber]

I'm not sure "where" exactly you are in your entry to turning, but at some point I would suggest this.
Go practice,
turn simple things,
learn how to sharpen,
work on tool presentation,
understand grain direction when turning,
practice,
make slightly more complex items,
learn basic shapes, like beads, coves, hollows and swells,
practice,
turn the simple things again,
look at your progress

I think you get the point

[Neil Strong]

Thanks! The face-shield arrived today and is now in use.

This is the [Like Button], which I would press if this forum software had it...:)

[Neil Strong]

Dont forget to tip your garbage handler. You turners make a lot of dust/chips

Of the many tons of shavings that I have produced over the years I've never needed to tip any of it into the garbage. I have a long list of people on my waiting list who would like to be further up the list to use it as:



mulch on their gardens and pot plants
the brown fraction in their compost
bedding for their horses, goats, chickens, etc.
weed suppression on their ground pathways


We do have a large curbside green bin service, so it would get recycled if it went in there, but why leave some family, friends and neighbours disappointed. In return, we get some eggs, fruit & veg and first offer on any tree that has or is about to come down. And, if the wood isn't suitable for woodturning it it can go into the firewood stack...:)

[Keith Nordyke]

Good advice and that is exactly what I am doing. Old 2 x 4s are ripped and being turned. Firewood logs are cut down on the bandsaw and turned between centers. Thanks to all that have responded. Good advice. I'm going to start a new thread with a different question so I hope the same sage advice is offered on that question as well. Thanks again.