And POOF! It Was Gone!

[Ronald Blue]

So the thread started by Kev Williams about EV fires must have turned very political because it's gone. Not just locked but gone. I hadn't been on here since Friday. What happened?

[Lee Schierer]

As you said it got political among other problems.

[Warren Lake]

spontaneous combustion, even happens with some people apparently.

Just came from the store Harleys behind me. Back window open in the truck, stop sign and loud exhaust blipping their throttles for no reason. It was actually annoying cause of whatever after market exhaust on them. Might be good when all those harleys are electric.

[Ronald Blue]

As you said it got political among other problems.


I remember when we could agree to disagree with civility. I miss those days.

[Alex Zeller]

The thread got off topic more than it was uncivil.

[Dave Zellers]

I remember when we could agree to disagree with civility. I miss those days.


Yes. This is why we can't have nice things like interesting threads.

Some people can't handle opposing viewpoints.

[Warren Lake]

there has been lots of interesting info on threads that meander around.

Enough I dont post on on the trade as my views are the same as the old guys.

[Malcolm McLeod]

As you said it got political among other problems.

ls ERCOT considered a political organization by SMC?

It is an appointed advisory council, but if deemed political, please delete my references to it - or the entire post - and restore the thread. I will defer any further participation.

[Steve Wurster]

spontaneous combustion, even happens with some people apparently.

"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It's just not really widely reported." -- David St. Hubbins

[Maurice Mcmurry]

There is information from the Modorators in an old thread that addresses liability issues on the forum. I think some of the replies were starting to be a liability.

[Mel Fulks]

"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year. It's just not really widely reported." -- David St. Hubbins
I’ve wondered if some of those reports were just misspellings of sudden decisions to COMPOST. But it might be just humorous hubris .

[Lawrence Duckworth]

the container ship Felicity Ace sank and with it a fortune in high end autos - probably started by an EV battery fire....how'd you like to be the guy insuring these overseas EV shipments :eek:

btw... I think whoever deletes these threads should at least have enough respect for the folks posting to explain why. ...12 pages deleted! - really?!

[Dave Zellers]

There is information from the Modorators in an old thread that addresses liability issues on the forum. I think some of the replies were starting to be a liability.


Yes- I have a hunch that is why the thread was removed from public view and not just locked.

Nothing is ever actually deleted.

[Ronald Blue]

the container ship Felicity Ace sank and with it a fortune in high end autos - probably started by an EV battery fire....how'd you like to be the guy insuring these overseas EV shipments :eek:

btw... I think whoever deletes these threads should at least have enough respect for the folks posting to explain why. ...12 pages deleted! - really?!

I agree Lawrence. That's partly why I started this thread. I never saw the posts that ran it aground so I don't know what transpired. Locking it yes but deleting it from sight is another level. Oh well we don't know what we don't know.

[Andrew More]

the container ship Felicity Ace sank and with it a fortune in high end autos - probably started by an EV battery fire....how'd you like to be the guy insuring these overseas EV shipments :eek:

Guessing they're used to it by now. I mean solid bulk cargos are a major issue (https://theconversation.com/mystery-of-the-cargo-ships-that-sink-when-their-cargo-suddenly-liquefies-101158), it's what kill the Edmund Fritzgerald of the famous song, but I don't see it hitting the news. Give that China effectively owns the lithium production, and all our power tools use those batteries, what other choice do we have?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

Per the Terms of Service which you all agreed to abide when you registered for membership:

It is our policy to support the free flow of information in a manner best befitting the woodworking community at large. Sawmill Creek is an online community where woodworkers may come together to share and discuss a common interest. Sawmill Creek reserves the right to refuse or delete any Content of which it becomes aware and reasonably deems not to fulfill its established purpose. In addition, SawMill Creek shall have the right (but not the obligation) in its sole discretion to edit, refuse or delete any Content that it reasonably considers to violate these Terms without notice. You understand and agree that the service is provided "AS-IS" and that SawMill Creek assumes no responsibility for the timeliness, deletion, mis-delivery or failure to store any user communications.

Nobody forced you to agree to the TOSs.

Threads are never deleted because they could be and have been in the past, subpoenaed for court cases. They are simply moved to the Moderator's Forum where they are no longer in public view.

I didn't see the thread involved but based on some of the posts in this thread, it's easy to understand why that thread was removed.

[Greg Funk]

Folks,

Per the Terms of Service which you all agreed to abide when you registered for membership:

It is our policy to support the free flow of information in a manner best befitting the woodworking community at large. Sawmill Creek is an online community where woodworkers may come together to share and discuss a common interest. Sawmill Creek reserves the right to refuse or delete any Content of which it becomes aware and reasonably deems not to fulfill its established purpose. In addition, SawMill Creek shall have the right (but not the obligation) in its sole discretion to edit, refuse or delete any Content that it reasonably considers to violate these Terms without notice. You understand and agree that the service is provided "AS-IS" and that SawMill Creek assumes no responsibility for the timeliness, deletion, mis-delivery or failure to store any user communications.

Nobody forced you to agree to the TOSs.

Threads are never deleted because they could be and have been in the past, subpoenaed for court cases. They are simply moved to the Moderator's Forum where they are no longer in public view.

I didn't see the thread involved but based on some of the posts in this thread, it's easy to understand why that thread was removed.Why leave everyone to speculate? It would be nice if the moderators just explained the reason for it's deletion.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

As you said it got political among other problems.


Why leave everyone to speculate? It would be nice if the moderators just explained the reason for it's deletion.

Post number 2 in this thread explained it.

[Greg Funk]

Post number 2 in this thread explained it.That's pretty vague and doesn't appear to violate the TOS you quoted. I have seen many threads where politics of some sort are mentioned and threads are not deleted. Maybe there's less tolerance in the off topic forum.

[Ronald Blue]

Folks,

Per the Terms of Service which you all agreed to abide when you registered for membership:

It is our policy to support the free flow of information in a manner best befitting the woodworking community at large. Sawmill Creek is an online community where woodworkers may come together to share and discuss a common interest. Sawmill Creek reserves the right to refuse or delete any Content of which it becomes aware and reasonably deems not to fulfill its established purpose. In addition, SawMill Creek shall have the right (but not the obligation) in its sole discretion to edit, refuse or delete any Content that it reasonably considers to violate these Terms without notice. You understand and agree that the service is provided "AS-IS" and that SawMill Creek assumes no responsibility for the timeliness, deletion, mis-delivery or failure to store any user communications.

Nobody forced you to agree to the TOSs.

Threads are never deleted because they could be and have been in the past, subpoenaed for court cases. They are simply moved to the Moderator's Forum where they are no longer in public view.

I didn't see the thread involved but based on some of the posts in this thread, it's easy to understand why that thread was removed.

It is the off topic forum so most posts have little or nothing to do with wood working. Also many of the threads in this segment meander like a lazy brook all over the place. So some of the posts in this thread are also offensive?

[Frederick Skelly]

I must've missed the post in question. But I"d like to respectfully inject a couple comments on the Moderators here. Please know that I mean no offense to the OP or anyone else who posted in this thread. In short, the Moderators do a good job keeping this place civil and friendly. I'm here often and I haven't seen them be arbitrary or ill-willed. As I understand it, if an individual Moderator is unsure about how a thread is going, they can put it in a special Moderator forum and discuss it among themselves. There have been several ugly arguments over moderation over the years and we've lost some participants whose posts I enjoyed. And it's usually the same arguments I read above in this thread. The Moderators work for free. Sometimes they drop a note explaining why, but other times they don't have time, etc. Every minute they spend moderating is a minute less for their own lives.

Respectfully,
Fred

[Curt Harms]

Guessing they're used to it by now. I mean solid bulk cargos are a major issue (https://theconversation.com/mystery-of-the-cargo-ships-that-sink-when-their-cargo-suddenly-liquefies-101158), it's what kill the Edmund Fritzgerald of the famous song, but I don't see it hitting the news. Give that China effectively owns the lithium production, and all our power tools use those batteries, what other choice do we have?

Find something besides lithium. It's in process now, sodium is one candidate. Down one on the periodic table from lithium. Nobody is going to corner the sodium market.

[Ronald Blue]

I must've missed the post in question. But I"d like to respectfully inject a couple comments on the Moderators here. Please know that I mean no offense to the OP or anyone else who posted in this thread. In short, the Moderators do a good job keeping this place civil and friendly. I'm here often and I haven't seen them be arbitrary or ill-willed. As I understand it, if an individual Moderator is unsure about how a thread is going, they can put it in a special Moderator forum and discuss it among themselves. There have been several ugly arguments over moderation over the years and we've lost some participants whose posts I enjoyed. And it's usually the same arguments I read above in this thread. The Moderators work for free. Sometimes they drop a note explaining why, but other times they don't have time, etc. Every minute they spend moderating is a minute less for their own lives.

Respectfully,
Fred

I'm not attacking the moderators. They do a good job. I'm sure there was probably a discussion held behind the scenes about the thread. I have been involved in such things before. They also can just remove the offending posts. However there may have been more to it than I saw. It generally stayed on a civil path. I don't know what the posts were that were the "tipping" point. The point is that many of us are left wondering what did happen. Apparently it was atrocious enough to not just lock the thread but to delete as well. I'm not arguing they are wrong only that it would be nice to know what happened.

You are correct that we lost some very knowledgeable members over a couple "changes" that were implemented in recent years. I also miss their contributions.

[Lawrence Duckworth]

I'm not attacking the moderators. They do a good job. I'm sure there was probably a discussion held behind the scenes about the thread. I have been involved in such things before. They also can just remove the offending posts. However there may have been more to it than I saw. It generally stayed on a civil path. I don't know what the posts were that were the "tipping" point. The point is that many of us are left wondering what did happen. Apparently it was atrocious enough to not just lock the thread but to delete as well. I'm not arguing they are wrong only that it would be nice to know what happened.

You are correct that we lost some very knowledgeable members over a couple "changes" that were implemented in recent years. I also miss their contributions.


What got my attention about the thread is I do own an electric vehicle, a Star golf cart :) ...I use it daily to go back and forth from the house to the shop and I plug it into the garage at night for charging. I honestly never considered the thing a fire risk until now. I noticed the other day the plug gets very warm when charging so now I'm charging it out back behind the shop until I have a better understanding of the fire risk.

....please bring back the thread!! :)

[Lee DeRaud]

Religion and politics have always been taboo here, with some slack (too much?) given to the OT subforum. Then there's economics, which for a sizeable portion of the populace overlaps both political and religious beliefs. This thread hit the trifecta.

I do get a chuckle when people complain about a thread in the "Off Topic" forum straying off-topic...did you forget where you were, bubba? :)

[Doug Garson]

+1 on bring back the thread or at least explain why it was taken down. Unless it went bad quickly at the end I saw nothing offensive and thought it was a civilized discussion. The levity thread has been going for years and I'm sure you could find a few sketchy posts but it's still going strong as it should. The fact there are 24+ posts in this thread say something.

[Lee DeRaud]

And my spidey-senses are tingling about the 'Gassed up today" thread...wouldn't take much for THAT one to blow up spectacularly.

[Lee DeRaud]

What got my attention about the thread is I do own an electric vehicle, a Star golf cart :) ...I use it daily to go back and forth from the house to the shop and I plug it into the garage at night for charging. I honestly never considered the thing a fire risk until now. I noticed the other day the plug gets very warm when charging so now I'm charging it out back behind the shop until I have a better understanding of the fire risk.
Heh. Last time I was within spitting distance of a golf cart, they still used lead-acid batteries. :)

[Ronald Blue]

I do get a chuckle when people complain about a thread in the "Off Topic" forum straying off-topic...did you forget where you were, bubba? :)[/QUOTE]

Agree wholeheartedly! Apparently if you start a post about golf balls you better not stray into the golf club facet or else you might get clubbed. Rabbit trails are sort of the standard here in this sub category. Off topic in the off topic forum. Who'd of thunk it?

[Doug Garson]

Folks,

Per the Terms of Service which you all agreed to abide when you registered for membership:

It is our policy to support the free flow of information in a manner best befitting the woodworking community at large. Sawmill Creek is an online community where woodworkers may come together to share and discuss a common interest. Sawmill Creek reserves the right to refuse or delete any Content of which it becomes aware and reasonably deems not to fulfill its established purpose. In addition, SawMill Creek shall have the right (but not the obligation) in its sole discretion to edit, refuse or delete any Content that it reasonably considers to violate these Terms without notice. You understand and agree that the service is provided "AS-IS" and that SawMill Creek assumes no responsibility for the timeliness, deletion, mis-delivery or failure to store any user communications.

Nobody forced you to agree to the TOSs.

Threads are never deleted because they could be and have been in the past, subpoenaed for court cases. They are simply moved to the Moderator's Forum where they are no longer in public view.

I didn't see the thread involved but based on some of the posts in this thread, it's easy to understand why that thread was removed.
Wouldn't it be fair to say that if it is easy to understand why the thread was removed it would also be easy to explain why? I'm sure I'm not the only one who has no idea what it was or whether it was one of my posts.

[Keith Outten]

I will do my best to review the thread in question again and restore it if possible but not on the 4th of July as I have other activities that I must do today as most of you can understand.

1. We rarely provide a reason publicly when threads or posts are removed. Honestly we would like to do just that on every occasion but there just isn't enough time in the day given the time it takes to accomplish our normal activities.

2. When we receive complaints or requests to deactivate peoples accounts here and they provide feedback expressing their concerns about a particular situation we generally react pretty quickly by removing the item from view. We then have the option to take the time to share comments about the problem and react responsibly. Every Moderator here will normally provide comments on issues at hand but we all have different schedules and live in different time zones so we will generally wait until we feel we have allowed a responsible amount of time before a final decision is made.

3. Friendly debate is not an option here it is absolutely necessity. We have to be able to share our opinions and allow opposite points of view to be expressed. This is what a forum is, a place to discuss topics of interest and to learn from others.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

When something is political, it's merely subjective, a matter of personal opinion.

Of course, there are those who object to moderating because they enjoy challenging authority.

[Ronald Blue]

I will do my best to review the thread in question again and restore it if possible but not on the 4th of July as I have other activities that I must do today as most of you can understand.

1. We rarely provide a reason publicly when threads or posts are removed. Honestly we would like to do just that on every occasion but there just isn't enough time in the day given the time it takes to accomplish our normal activities.

2. When we receive complaints or requests to deactivate peoples accounts here and they provide feedback expressing their concerns about a particular situation we generally react pretty quickly by removing the item from view. We then have the option to take the time to share comments about the problem and react responsibly. Every Moderator here will normally provide comments on issues at hand but we all have different schedules and live in different time zones so we will generally wait until we feel we have allowed a responsible amount of time before a final decision is made.

3. Friendly debate is not an option here it is absolutely necessary. We have to be able to share our opinions and allow opposite points of view to be expressed. This is what a forum is, a place to discuss topics of interest and to learn from others.

Enjoy your holiday Keith. I don't think anyone expects you to take time away from family and relaxing to deal with this. Happy 4th of July to everyone!!!

[Myk Rian]

So the thread started by Kev Williams about EV fires must have turned very political because it's gone. Not just locked but gone. I hadn't been on here since Friday. What happened?
Well, poo. I only got to post once in it. 😁

[Malcolm McLeod]

1. We rarely provide a reason publicly when threads or posts are removed. …

Sometimes its obvious and sometimes not. As well as most here police themselves, sometimes, as is apparently the case on the EV thread, someone needs to tell us (me). Even if by PM with the offending word, phrase, post, or tone. Or we will do it again; consuming still more of the Mod’s time.

I was ‘in’ the thread in question, reading, when it ‘vanished’ (on my refresh to see if anything new had been posted). I saw nothing that meets my definition of politics, excepting perhaps public perception of an acronym - - and hence my question above about that dread acronym. Again, please tell me if this is a trigger.
______
And I hope all have a safe 4th; be especially careful if traveling.

[Jim Becker]

My singular response about the "why" for when many threads like that get removed from view comes down to something my mother used to teach..."It's not what you say but how you say it". Yes, sometimes verboten topics get in the way, but MOST of the time, it's because people stop being polite while expressing their views and frankly, a moderator or three having to take the time to slice and dice and julienne a thread just to keep things civil just isn't worth it, especially for an "off topic" topic.

[Chris Parks]

Post number 2 in this thread explained it.

No, it does not. Closing the thread and removing it is not the problem at all, the problem is there is no reason given why it has disappeared from sight. For instance was it political, did it contain personal attacks on other members etc. For it to simply disappear is not a good look at all no matter what caused the removal.

[Chris Parks]

Of course, there are those who object to moderating because they enjoy challenging authority.

The reverse is not unknown either.

[Frederick Skelly]

The reverse is not unknown either.

I don't recall seeing that happen Chris. Doesn't mean it hasn't, but if it does I'm thinking it's pretty rare.

[Chris Parks]

I don't recall seeing that happen Chris. Doesn't mean it hasn't, but if it does I'm thinking it's pretty rare.

It is not common but I have seen it happen more than once.

[Lawrence Duckworth]

The thread got off topic more than it was uncivil.

going off topic is pretty ez for me to do :eek:

I commented last night in the metal category and this morning realized it had nothing to do with the op 482249 so I deleted

[Alex Zeller]

going off topic is pretty ez for me to do :eek:

I commented last night in the metal category and this morning realized it had nothing to do with the op 482249 so I deleted

If this was a meeting at a woodworking shop some of the conversations would get very interesting. You would quickly form opinions on how people feel about subjects and either engage or avoid those subjects. Most likely there would be a lot of laughing and kidding around. On-line it's different. Not being able to see the person or people you are talking to makes it harder to figure them out. But the just wanting to have a nice conversation never goes away. That, of course, leads to the subject getting derailed. But "Off Topic" should be the place for a thread to go off track sometimes. It's fun to learn things about people and subjects that otherwise would never have come up.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

No, it does not. Closing the thread and removing it is not the problem at all, the problem is there is no reason given why it has disappeared from sight. For instance was it political, did it contain personal attacks on other members etc. For it to simply disappear is not a good look at all no matter what caused the removal.

Post number 2 says it got political.